| --- Log opened Sat Feb 18 00:00:29 2017 |
| 00:38 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | As described: playGroup(animGroup:string flag:int): play the specified animation group. If flag is 0, play after the current animation finishes. If 1, play immediately. If 2, play immediately and skip to the named group's loop point, if it has one. |
| 00:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | As implemented: playGroup(animGroup:string flag:int): play the specified animation group immediately. The flag argument is ignored. |
| 00:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | let ptrPortalA1.isOpening := 1 ; given ptrPortalA1 as a ref to a portal, works fine |
| 00:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | ref rPortal; let rPortal := ptrPortalA1; let rPortal.isOpening := 1 ; compile error |
| 00:56 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
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| 01:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok, this is really aggravating. |
| 01:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | You can't manipulate an object's animations while it's disabled. |
| 01:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | So I have to disable the object, move it into position, wait a few frames, enable it, then call playGroup |
| 01:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | But! |
| 01:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | You can't playGroup on the same frame you enable it, or it just gets ignored. |
| 01:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | But this means there's one frame where the animation-finished version flashes on screen before you call playGroup. |
| 01:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | So I think what I need to do here is |
| 01:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | - disable object; moveTo the target location + (0, 0, -1000) |
| 01:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | - wait one frame for the move to finalize |
| 01:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | - enable object |
| 01:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | - wait one frame |
| 01:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | - start new animation and teleport object 1000 units upwards |
| 01:42 | <&[R]> | Are you able to stop the animation before the final frame? |
| 01:42 | <&[R]> | Maybe have the final frame be 100% alpha? |
| 01:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | Can't control the alpha, can't pause animations. |
| 02:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | Huh. I've made a mistake in the math somewhere. |
| 02:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | I got it to the point where I can actually open a linked portal pair, then stepped through one of the portals and ended up embedded in the ceiling. |
| 02:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: I figured out why it uses rats apart from "they're small", I think |
| 02:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | They fall to the floor! |
| 02:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | So you can place the portal in midair but be confident that the player will emerge from it with their feet on the ground, because it's actually the rat they teleport to, not the portal. |
| 02:52 | | * [R] is curious, do the players ever see these rats? |
| 02:53 | <~Vornicus> | they are invisible intangible rats |
| 02:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | No, they're invisible and intangible |
| 02:53 | <~Vornicus> | Now allow me to introduce you to the dragon in my garage |
| 02:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | There is, however, a script that runs every few seconds and looks for rats that have wandered away from their portals, and moves them back into place |
| 02:54 | <&[R]> | They can't null the AI on the rats? |
| 02:57 | <@Namegduf> | That's horrible and brilliant and entirely understandable when trying to build anything in a Bethesda game. |
| 02:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | [R]: I have no idea if they can or can't |
| 02:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | But I do note that I have now taken a mod that came with 19 scripts, 10 spells, 4 items, 10 creatures, and 5 quests |
| 02:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | And rewritten it to get the same functionality, with UX improvements, in 3 scripts, 1 spell, and 1 quest |
| 02:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | So I get the feeling that the original author was neither an experienced modder nor an experienced programmer |
| 02:59 | <&[R]> | Nice. |
| 03:00 | <&[R]> | What's the end goal here |
| 03:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | A fork of the oblivion Portals mod that's somewhat balanced with respect to Morrowind, assuming map-based fast travel in morrowind has been disabled |
| 03:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | And that doesn't fill half a page of your spellbook with "Open Portal" variants |
| 03:01 | <&McMartin> | 18:59 <&ToxicFrog> So I get the feeling that the original author was neither an experienced modder nor an experienced programmer |
| 03:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | My rough roadmap is, v1.0 is "you can open portals and it costs gems". v1.1 is "number of portals you can have open scales with Mysticism and Alchemy skill" |
| 03:01 | <&McMartin> | Very common, of course |
| 03:02 | <&McMartin> | But I cannot deny that this original author was possessed of a certain rat-based mad genius |
| 03:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | And v2.0 is "you get new portal-related abilities as you increase those skills" |
| 03:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: indeed, and I'm not knocking them; it's messy but it works, and I have a new appreciation for all the bullshit needed to work around the engine limitations. |
| 03:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | I also suspect that it was written for an older (or missing) version of OBSE, which makes things noticeably harder. |
| 03:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | And, in complete fairness, part of the complexity savings on my end comes from not trying to support the Shivering Isles expansion. |
| 03:05 | <@Namegduf> | I once tried to make a modular mod. |
| 03:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Anyways, I have all of v1.0 working except the "it costs gems" bit. What portals you can open is properly limited by what gems you have, but it doesn't actually consume them when you open the portal. |
| 03:06 | <@Namegduf> | It's possible but kind of crazy to assemble a linked list of objects |
| 03:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: recent versions of OBSE add arrays and maps |
| 03:06 | <@Namegduf> | This was before OBSE, just plain Oblivion engine. |
| 03:06 | <~Vornicus> | I for one amglad for the rise of lua |
| 03:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, that makes it a lot harder |
| 03:06 | <@Namegduf> | If you unloaded mods wrong after adding them, it would cause the game to crash on startup. |
| 03:06 | <@Namegduf> | Because there would be object references in the linked list which were no longer valid. |
| 03:07 | <~Vornicus> | and having missed the space now I have misread my own text as "mangled" |
| 03:07 | <@Namegduf> | I think each mod introduced an object and also there was a single object reference in the base mod's quest, and on load each one would take that reference, set it as its next object, and stick its object in as that reference. Or something like that. |
| 03:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: Oblivion postdates the public popularization of Lua by WoW by two years, and widespread use in the games industry by at least 5 |
| 03:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | And I'm pretty sure Skyrim uses the same awful halfassed scripting language |
| 03:08 | <@Namegduf> | I was trying to make my Quest Award Leveling mod have additional modules which could be loaded in for expansions |
| 03:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | I would love it if they used Lua. It would make this so much less painful. |
| 03:08 | <@Namegduf> | But I never got around to it and someone else made expansion-compatible versions |
| 03:08 | <@Namegduf> | Well, expansion-item-including versions |
| 03:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Then again, things I would also like: an editor with more functionality than notepad.txt; being able to save the mod without closing the script editor first; being able to open more than one script at a time |
| 03:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Bethesda's tooling is just awful across the board |
| 03:09 | <@Namegduf> | It is |
| 03:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hmm. I'm still trying to figure out what the gemtype for portal 5 should be. |
| 03:17 | <&[R]> | Lapis Lazuli |
| 03:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | [R]: I can't just make up gems |
| 03:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | Or rather, I can, but then I would need to add them to loot tables and vendor inventories and stuff and it would be a huge pain in the ass. |
| 03:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | So I want to use some item that already exists. |
| 03:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | Void salts are probably highest on the list of potentials right now. |
| 03:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | They're about as expensive as pearls and can be bought, but only in small quantities, from alchemy vendors. |
| 03:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | Raw ebony and raw glass are about as expensive as diamonds but can be acquired in *huge* quantities if you know where to look; those, I think, will work better as fuel for other portal-related abilities. |
| 03:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | (they're also quite heavy) |
| 03:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | Dwemer coins are, functionally, a kind of gem, but they're also super common. |
| 03:25 | <&ToxicFrog> | Although I guess I could make those the highest-ranked kind of gem -- congratulations, for leveling up your skill you can now create purple portals with wild abandon as long as you explore a dwemer ruin every two dozen portals or so |
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| --- Log closed Sat Feb 18 05:04:26 2017 |
| --- Log opened Sat Feb 18 05:10:15 2017 |
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| 12:48 | | * ToxicFrog fiddles with balance |
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| 13:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok, I think I've got something I'm happy with. |
| 13:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv will be pleased to know it lets you open portals at low skill levels. |
| 13:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | ALCH/MYST 10/10: you can open unstable portals at the cost of a diamond. This should be usable by any character that selected magic focus at creation, and even the most magically hopeless characters are only 2 levels and 900 septims of training away from it. |
| 13:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | ALCH 25: exit portal stabilizes; MYST 25: exit portal stabilizes. |
| 13:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | Er, that second "exit" should be "entrance". |
| 13:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | With both at 25 your portals are fully stable and you get another portal slot. You get more slots every 25 points in either skill, to a max of 5 at 75/50 or 100/25. |
| 13:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | Raising alchemy gives you more flexibility in what you use to create the portals. ALCH 50 gives you alternate materials for the first four slots, ALCH 75 lets you substitute raw ebony as long as you have a template and ALCH 100 lets you substitute raw glass as well. |
| 13:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | Raising mysticism lets you make alterations to the portal network. MYST 50 lets you spend a gem to make your next portal transit take you to any other portal. MYST 75 lets you spend a gem and a soul to permanently redirect a portal, and MYST 100 lets you spend a soul and one of each gem to turn a portal into a hub. |
| 13:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | (implementing that last might be kind of aggravating) |
| 13:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Finally, raising both gives you new teleportation spells. With both at 50 you can teleport to the closest portal with the right gem. With both at 75 you can teleport to *any* portal. And with both at 100 you no longer need to spend the gems, just have them in your inventory. |
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| 21:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | Arse. |
| 21:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | The following sequence: |
| 21:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | rFrom.activate |
| 21:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | rTo.positionCell 0 0 0 0 ptCell |
| 21:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | rFrom.setDoorTeleport rTo |
| 21:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | Does not actually resolve the 'activate' until the next frame. |
| 21:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | So it drops you into an endless black void. |
| 21:14 | <@Tamber> | Well, that's inconvenient. |
| 21:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | Huh. |
| 21:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | I had an idea to play the "portal collapsing" animation when you do something that causes a portal to close |
| 21:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | And it works great! |
| 21:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | Unfortunately, it also permanently breaks the portal's collision detection, making it impossible to use. |
| 21:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok, it looks like I can get the collision mesh back by: |
| 21:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | - letting the portal play the entire "opening" animation, and then |
| 21:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | - disabling and enabling it |
| 21:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | I'm not sure if the latter can be done in one frame without visual glitches, but let's find out. |
| 21:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | nope! |
| 21:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | I think I'll just give up on playing the "portal collapses" animation. |
| 22:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | This will only ever be relevant if (a) the player steps out of a collapsing portal and then manages to turn 180° in less than half a second or (b) the player opens two portals in the same room and then collapses one of them |
| 22:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | And in either case it's not obviously *wrong* to not play the animation, it's just...less eye candy. |
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| --- Log closed Sun Feb 19 00:00:31 2017 |