| --- Log opened Sun Feb 12 00:00:21 2017 |
| 00:12 | <&[R]> | <ShadowMobile> Persistent backlog. Notifications. Multiple-platform single-account access. [Automatic line cutting, so IRC messages aren't just abruptly cut at the limit] <-- We're looking for an IRC client that offers some or all of those features. He's using IceChat on Windows right now. |
| 00:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | By "multiple platform" do you mean "windows and linux" or "windows and android" or what? |
| 00:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | And "notifications" -- mobile notifications, desktop notifications, both? |
| 00:37 | | LadyOfLight [catalyst@Nightstar-bt5k4h.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 00:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | [R]: ^ |
| 00:41 | <&[R]> | He meant that he'd be logged into the server with his phone and computer at the same time, but only show up as one unified user. |
| 00:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | The persistent backscroll means you're going to need some kind of server, and unless you want to deal with lots of irritating edge cases you probably don't want it to be ZNC |
| 00:41 | <&[R]> | Which AFAIK only Smuxi/Quassel do without a bouncer. |
| 00:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | And weechat. |
| 00:41 | <&[R]> | Well yeah, but he... |
| 00:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | And irccloud if you're ok with a company having your credentials. |
| 00:42 | <&[R]> | <ShadowDragon8685> Yes, but again, *I DO NOT.* Quassel is some kind of random weird-ass GNU thing where everybody and their dog has their own custom fork of it and argharghargharghargh. |
| 00:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | And irssi+tmux/screen if you're one of those people who can run ssh on their phone without going insane. |
| 00:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | Do not what? |
| 00:42 | <&[R]> | Want I guess |
| 00:43 | <&[R]> | He's a windows user through and through |
| 00:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | That pretty much limits him to irccloud, I think |
| 00:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Weechat has windows clients but you need a linux machine to run the server on, AFAIK |
| 00:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | Quassel has a windows server, but he appears to have already decided he doesn't want it for some reason |
| 00:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | (I have no idea what he's on about there, it's not GNU and it has no significant forks) |
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| 00:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | I mean, weechat claims to build and run in cygwin, so I guess he could try that? |
| 00:50 | <&[R]> | I even offered access to my Core |
| 00:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | Smuxi has a windows version for download but doesn't appear to have any mobile clients, so that's a no-go |
| 00:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok, so, AFAICT, the options here are: |
| 00:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | - use Quassel and Quasseldroid; again, his objection to it has no relation to reality |
| 00:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | - use Cygwin to run weechat and weechatdroid; cygwin is probably too linuxy though |
| 00:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | - use irccloud |
| 00:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | And if you can figure out what he means by "some kind of random weird-ass GNU thing where everybody and their dog has their own custom fork of it" I'd like to know. |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | "Oh, you don't want SilvereX, you want this other version of X-Chat you've never heard of that's actually taken an update in the past five years" |
| 01:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which would be a valid objection if |
| 01:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | (a) he were talking about xchat, not quassel, and |
| 01:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | (b) it were 2010 and hexchat hadn't yet completely supplanted every other fork of xchat |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | Right, so, as you know from your own history of subversion, the way this works is you get burned once and then stop paying attention to updates within that space |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | You seem to be surprised that somebody like this would exist in the first place, and this doesn't seem like it's that far from phenomena you recognize |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | (Indeed, the example I gave is because that was the last time I paid attention to IRC clients that were not irssi~) |
| 01:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's more that they seem to have specifically looked at a new IRC client and objected it on grounds that applied to a completely different client several years ago |
| 01:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | Like, the analogy here is me refusing to try Git because I tried SVN years ago and it sucked |
| 01:34 | <&McMartin> | Right, because he did the equivalent of blaming version control generally |
| 01:34 | <&McMartin> | I'm not saying he's not in error, I'm saying he took his previous experiences with open source programs on Windows and generalized it to, well, all open source programs on windows |
| 01:35 | <&McMartin> | The correct response is "no, really, Windows is properly supported by Quassel", assuming it is |
| 01:39 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 03:49 | <&McMartin> | ... Man. |
| 03:49 | <&McMartin> | I find an old type-in program that purports to draw the Statue of Liberty |
| 03:50 | <&McMartin> | It produces this: https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/screenshots/liberty_0.png |
| 03:50 | <&McMartin> | "Wow," |
| 03:50 | <&McMartin> | I think. |
| 03:50 | <&McMartin> | "This looks like someone tried to manually mouse it up freehand in some old paint program" |
| 03:50 | <&McMartin> | Then you fix the palette and do three flood fills and: https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/screenshots/liberty_1.png |
| 03:53 | <~Vornicus> | Huh. |
| 03:55 | <@Azash> | McMartin: I like it, very M. C. Escher |
| 03:55 | <&McMartin> | The right eye is the most impressively dramatic change |
| 03:56 | <&McMartin> | (and by "right" I mean "the one on the left") |
| 03:58 | <&McMartin> | Also apparently there's a flood fill algorithm that uses constant memory, which sounds pretty neat |
| --- Log closed Sun Feb 12 04:31:03 2017 |
| --- Log opened Sun Feb 12 04:36:50 2017 |
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| 07:06 | <&[R]> | <Enma_Hinobara> I need a piece of code, but between school and something I have to get done in the next month, I don't have time to write it (and the code will make the latter easier). Anyone looking for a good time? |
| 07:06 | <&[R]> | <Enma_Hinobara> Need a parser for a small subset of C, in C++ (with a couple of application-specific extensions) |
| 07:06 | <&[R]> | <Enma_Hinobara> Hmmm. If additional motivation is needed, I'll give you a really cool hacking tool I wrote. Logs all calls to all functions in DLLs. I've used it many times in the past. |
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| 14:54 | | * TheWatcher ...s |
| 14:55 | <@TheWatcher> | I could have sworn I'd already written this code, wtg |
| 14:55 | <@TheWatcher> | *wtf |
| 14:56 | <@TheWatcher> | This is bizarre :/ |
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| 16:54 | <@abudhabi> | TheWatcher: https://i.imgflip.com/1jhmem.jpg |
| 16:55 | <@TheWatcher> | Quite. |
| 17:03 | <@abudhabi> | Nothing like being chased out of a store at closing time, suspending your laptop, finding a nearby outlet, turning it back on, and not losing your SSH connection. |
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| 19:32 | <@abudhabi> | Is it kosher to not close tr and td tags? |
| 19:34 | <&[R]> | No |
| 19:46 | <&McMartin> | To the maximum extent possible one should try to make one's HTML secretly be as close to XML as possible |
| 19:46 | <&McMartin> | I think you still end up not closing your <hr> tags in HTML5? I'm not sure. I know you don't get to do the <hr /> thing |
| 19:48 | <&McMartin> | ALso, man |
| 19:48 | <&McMartin> | running BASIC in DOSBox feels a lot zippier than I'm used to a BASIC being |
| 19:48 | <&McMartin> | I guess I've been spending too much time in the 8-bit world >_> |
| 19:56 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 20:02 | <@abudhabi> | I just saw a website not close its trs and tds. |
| 20:02 | <@abudhabi> | But the browser automatically closed them for them, visible in the inspector. |
| 20:02 | <@abudhabi> | (Source view showed actual code.) |
| 20:03 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, SGML doesn't insist on it, but you are kind of Risking It |
| 20:04 | <@abudhabi> | Does Python's lxml do the same here? |
| 20:04 | <&McMartin> | XML *must* close *everything*. |
| 20:04 | <@abudhabi> | I mean, if I ask it to iterate over that malformed table, will it do it? |
| 20:04 | <@abudhabi> | It supposedly has some malformation tolerance. |
| 20:04 | <@abudhabi> | But I don't know how much. |
| 20:04 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, but "unable to produce a valid DOM from the text" might be beyond it |
| 20:06 | <&[R]> | Doesn't Python have Beautiful Soup? |
| 20:06 | <@abudhabi> | Which is? |
| 20:07 | <&[R]> | A Python library for parsing HTML, specifically malformed HTML. |
| 20:07 | <@abudhabi> | Sounds relevant! |
| 20:07 | <&[R]> | Or it was when I actually thought Python was decent. |
| 20:12 | <@abudhabi> | Any good tutorials on how to actually use lxml's selector syntax? I've been having hell of a time getting anything useful out of it. |
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| 20:17 | <&[R]> | Is it the same as CSS selectors? |
| 20:18 | <@abudhabi> | It seems obviously related, but it's not the same. |
| 20:18 | <@abudhabi> | '//div[@title="buyer-name"]/text()' |
| 20:23 | | * TheWatcher suggests using regexps!~ |
| 20:25 | <@abudhabi> | So I'll have N+1 problems?~ |
| 20:47 | <@TheWatcher> | No, because http://stackoverflow.com/a/1732454/1479999 :D |
| 20:48 | <@ErikMesoy> | Isn't that just one of those very theoretical things like the Turing-completeness of MTG? |
| 20:53 | <@Namegduf> | In /principle/ a large enough ugly enough complex enough regexp can parse (X)HTML as well as a corresponding finite machine with the ability to keep track of that amount of stack can. However, in practice, people don't build the 100000 character regexes required to support parsing any sensible amount of stack at all. |
| 20:54 | <@Namegduf> | And there's a lot of practical subtleties aside the stack problem that people don't account for in built regexes. |
| 20:54 | <@abudhabi> | How about evolving a regexp instead? :V |
| 20:55 | <@Namegduf> | So kinda yes but also there's a very practical problem in practice and you aren't building a regexp which can actually simulate a machine able to deal with however many (hundreds? thousands?) finite levels of stacking you'd need to to get reliably decent behaviour. |
| 20:56 | <@Namegduf> | If you're running it over a handful of pages you're checking by hand you can do it like you might regexp over a code file; it's not a general solution but you don't need it to be, you're just giving your text editor an instruction. |
| 20:57 | <@Namegduf> | Checking with git or whatever about what you just did is probably advisable. |
| 20:57 | <@TheWatcher> | abudhabi: a normal regexp simply can't do it, really: they're chomsky type 3 grammars, while html/xml/etc are chomsky type 2. You can cover a lot, bit not all of it. |
| 20:58 | <@Namegduf> | Even if you made a version of XML which was bounded to a finite maximum amount of nesting, which /would/ technically be regexp-possible, it'd be a complete pain in the ass to write any regexes which could deal with it. Is the practical problem. |
| 20:58 | <@Namegduf> | It's a hideously complex format. |
| 21:05 | <~Vornicus> | In html5, hr (also area, base, br, col, embed, img, input, keygen, link, meta, param, source, track, and wbr) are all "void elements" |
| 21:05 | <~Vornicus> | You are allowed, but not required, to include the terminating slash a la xml |
| 21:05 | | macdjord|fude is now known as macdjord |
| 21:24 | <&[R]> | div[@title="buyer-name"] <-- that's a valid css selector |
| 21:32 | <~Vornicus> | In addition, many tags - html, head, body, li, dt, dd, p, rb, rt, rtc, rp, optgroup, option, colgroup, thead, tbody, tfoot, tr, th, td - are allowed to omit the end tag. You don't want to *do* this, typically. (also, html, head, body, colgroup, and tbody are all allowed to omit the start tags. Typically you'll only use the ones for colgroup and tbody) |
| 21:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Isn't something else also allowed to omit the start tag? Possibly <p>? |
| 21:34 | <~Vornicus> | Nope, that's all of them. |
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| --- Log closed Mon Feb 13 00:00:23 2017 |