| --- Log opened Sat Jan 07 00:00:30 2017 |
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| 08:29 | <&jerith> | Indirecting through a constant pointer is pretty standard in embedded systems stuff where you're prodding special function registers. |
| 08:29 | <&jerith> | Although that's usually wrapped in functions or macros by the system libraries. |
| 08:34 | <&McMartin> | I usually expect those numbers to also be much lower. |
| 08:34 | <&jerith> | Indeed. |
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| 15:46 | <@abudhabi> | How does printing collation work? |
| 15:46 | <@abudhabi> | I mean, if I want to print two-sided, do I pick collated or non-collated? |
| 16:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | abudhabi: they're orthogonal |
| 16:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Collation determines what order it emits the pages in |
| 16:12 | <@abudhabi> | Let me specify. If I want to print a 2-page document two-sided, which one will print all the page-1 before printing all the page-2? |
| 16:13 | <@abudhabi> | That way I can load the requisite amount of paper in, print that many page 1s, then return the paper into the tray reversed and let it continue. |
| 16:13 | <@abudhabi> | It can be done more manually, by simply printing selectively two times, but that's more dialog windows. |
| 16:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 16:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | I have no idea what setting you want, because what the collation settings are *called* depends on the printer/print driver/software you're printing from. |
| 16:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Usually there's a little diagram that tells you what it thinks the collation settings mean. |
| 16:36 | <@abudhabi> | There is, but I don't know how to parse it. |
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| 16:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | You probably want the one that looks like 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 and not the one that looks like 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4, if those are options |
| 16:52 | | * abudhabi puts that in the tome of magical rituals. |
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| 17:28 | <@thalass> | allo all |
| 17:29 | <@thalass> | Stupid python question: If I have python opening a text file, is the relative file location based on the location of the .py file, or the directory where the command is being executed? |
| 17:30 | <@thalass> | Because if I run "python /home/osmc/conkyweather/weather.py" from /home/osmc/conkyweather it finds the file no problem, but if I run it from / (or, say, cron executes the command) it fails to find the file. |
| 17:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | thalass: the former |
| 17:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | All relative paths are based on the program working directory, which (if not changed) is whatever directory you were in when you started the program |
| 17:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | And has no relation to where the program is actually stored. |
| 17:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | For cron, PWD is probably either / or $HOME if not explicitly changed. |
| 17:33 | <@thalass> | Ah. That explains it. I changed the code from absolute path to relative because the program is stored in a different directory name on the pi compared to the desktop that I wrote it on. Kinda dumb of me haha. |
| 17:33 | <@thalass> | Thanks :) |
| 17:34 | <@thalass> | Trying to do things right and use git, etc. But then I have to rejigger the code after I clone the project over to the pi. >.< |
| 17:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | So you have a few ways to deal with this! |
| 17:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | You can have the program figure out where it's installed and look for files there |
| 17:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | You can install the files to a well-known common location like /usr/share/<name of program>/ |
| 17:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | You can pass the path on the command line and just change the arguments cron invokes it with |
| 17:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | You can give it a config file in ~/.config/ and have it read the paths out of there |
| 17:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | Lots of options! |
| 17:36 | <@thalass> | whee! |
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| 17:37 | <@thalass> | I'm thinking a setup/install script might be the most portable way to do it, but that's a whole other thing. Hrm. Fun! |
| 17:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | Command line is easy to implement and is a good idea in general; you never know when you'll need to override a setting |
| 17:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | And it doesn't make any assumptions about where the program is being installed or how it's being run |
| 17:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | (e.g. /usr/share is the canonical location for "non-platform-specific data", but windows doesn't have that and NixOS will have it in /nix/store/ somewhere) |
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| 17:40 | | * thalass nods |
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| 17:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | (Usually what I do is I start out hard-coding everything at first, then add command line arguments, then add a config file that supplies defaults for the command line arguments) |
| 17:47 | <@thalass> | Sounds good. I've got things hardcoded. I could do that next step. I tried to smooth the differences in platform (nixPC vs Pi) with os.path.expanduser when opening the API key file, but that still requires a static file location after ~ |
| 17:54 | <@thalass> | augh I have really got to clean this up. obsolete code from when I ran this on the computer. bleh. |
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| 21:05 | <@TheWatcher> | Long shot, but does anyone here speak Polish? |
| 21:09 | <~Vornicus> | I believe abudhabi is from poland. |
| 21:19 | <&jerith> | I know a couple of Poles elsenet. What do you need? |
| 21:20 | <@TheWatcher> | I may or may not need some assistance with supporting a polish user of one of my MW extensions |
| 21:21 | <&jerith> | One of the Poles I know wrote a PHP interpreter once. |
| 21:23 | <&jerith> | (Well, he started writing one. He didn't finish it Facebook decided to do their own thing internally instead.) |
| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | Somebody here definitely was speccing out a system that was costed in zloty some months back, but I forget who |
| 21:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | thalass: if you're going to look for stuff in ~, there's places for that too |
| 21:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | ~/.config/<program name>/ for user-modifiable configuration stuff, ~/.local/<program name>/ or ~/.local/share/<program name> (honestly not sure what the difference is, I should RTFM) for general data. |
| 21:37 | <&[R]> | share directories usually mean the program expects multiple things are going to use that data |
| 21:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | That's not at all how it's used in practice, in either /usr/share or in ~/.local/share/ |
| 21:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | I mean, some stuff, yeah (/usr/share/icons!) but there's also lots and lots of very program-specific stuff in there. |
| 21:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | For starters, any game is going to install graphics and level files and stuff in /usr/share/<name>, if it does an FHS install at all. |
| 21:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's basically the dumping ground for "all program data that is neither user-specific (/home), nor architecture-specific (/lib), nor something the sysadmin will want to edit (/etc) |
| 21:45 | | * McMartin fires up the Linux Filesystem Hierarchy page |
| 21:45 | <&McMartin> | /usr/share's primary feature is indeed "architecture independence" |
| 21:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | Presumably "share" is "shared between archs", not "shared between programs" |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | Except then they also deny that, so I dunno, everyone is confused |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | " |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | This directory contains 'shareable', architecture-independent files (docs, icons, fonts etc). Note, however, that '/usr/share' is generally not intended to be shared by different operating systems or by different releases of the same operating system. Any program or package which contains or requires data that doesn't need to be modified should store that data in '/usr/share' (or '/usr/local/share', if |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | installed locally). It is recommended that a subdirectory be used in /usr/share for this purpose." |
| 21:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | I read that as "you should not, e.g., make /usr/share a single NFS mount that is shared by your entire fleet, nor have all your OSes on a multiboot system use the same filesystem for it" |
| 21:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | But for any individual program, the data it puts in there is going to be "stuff that is common to all archs the program runs on" |
| 21:49 | <&McMartin> | "Data that isn't modified" to me also says "this can be simultaneously open by bunches of programs at once" |
| 21:49 | <&[R]> | Seems silly |
| 21:50 | <&McMartin> | Traditional Unix filesystems are not exactly a fan of bundles |
| 21:50 | <&McMartin> | Its idea of one is a zipfile that you unzip at / |
| 21:51 | <&McMartin> | That's changing, but /usr/share is an artifact of the older world |
| 21:59 | <&McMartin> | The thing that made the change really take off was the rise of Linux as a viable gaming platform~ |
| 21:59 | <@Tamber> | "But only if you don't call it 'Linux'."~ |
| 22:53 | <&McMartin> | Nah, GOG and Valve both call it "Linux" these days. |
| 22:54 | <&McMartin> | The SteamOS thing was because Valve assumed that shit wasn't going to work unless the controlled the entire driver stack and carefully preconfigured and tuned it to the level of "custom distro" |
| 22:54 | <&McMartin> | And to everyone's surprise that turned out to *not* be necessary. |
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| 23:25 | <@Namegduf> | Yeah; it took a lot of custom work with nVidia, but all Linux distros got it. |
| 23:31 | <@Namegduf> | So the process of building *one* distro that worked also turned at least Ubuntu on a friendly hardware setup into a second distro that worked. |
| 23:32 | <@Namegduf> | (And if you're running Gentoo or something, you're not really looking for something that works smoothly anyway) |
| 23:45 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| --- Log closed Sun Jan 08 00:00:31 2017 |