| --- Log opened Sat Dec 10 00:00:11 2016 |
| 00:18 | < catalyst> | cons = {$h = {$t = {head = $h, tail = $t}}} |
| 00:19 | < catalyst> | (cons/a)/{} => {$t = {head = a, tail = $t}}/{} => {head = a, tail = {}} |
| 00:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Random thought: make juxtaposition left-associative (Haskell style) and / right-associative |
| 00:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | So `cons a {}` is eqv to above |
| 00:20 | < catalyst> | (cons/b)/(cons/a)/{} => {head = b, tail = {head = b, tail = {}}} |
| 00:20 | < catalyst> | but that means that you could do something like |
| 00:20 | < catalyst> | var = (cons/b)/(cons/a)/{} |
| 00:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | And `cons a b/c` is legal, and conses (a) with (b/c) |
| 00:20 | < catalyst> | var/head = b |
| 00:20 | < catalyst> | var/tail/head = a |
| 00:20 | < catalyst> | var/tail/tail/head = error |
| 00:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | (cons a/{} is of course partial application of cons) |
| 00:21 | < catalyst> | well, cons/a is partial application of cons |
| 00:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | catalyst: I mean with my proposed syntax tweak |
| 00:21 | < catalyst> | oh, I didn't see your intervening comment |
| 00:22 | < catalyst> | cons a {} => (cons/a)/{} |
| 00:22 | < catalyst> | right, I see |
| 00:23 | < catalyst> | so something like len' = {$sn = {error = $sn/n, $else = len'/{s = $sn/s, n = inc/$sn/n}}/$sn s/$sn n |
| 00:24 | < catalyst> | I actually think I might prefer . being left-associative |
| 00:24 | < catalyst> | cons.a.{} |
| 00:24 | < catalyst> | Hm. |
| 00:24 | < catalyst> | I really dislike whitespace being a significant syntax thing, for some reason |
| 00:25 | < catalyst> | I think I'm massively biased by having to write out 4 pages of derivations to reach a seq definition though |
| 00:26 | < catalyst> | cons a b/c => (cons/a)/b/c |
| 00:27 | < catalyst> | cons a/{} => (cons/a)/{} |
| 00:27 | < catalyst> | cons a/cons b/{} |
| 00:28 | < catalyst> | incidentally, I suspect that: |
| 00:29 | < catalyst> | seq = {$m = {$k = {0 = $m/head, $else = (seq/($m/tail))/dec/$k}}} |
| 00:29 | < catalyst> | seq = {$m = {$k = {0 = $m/head, $else = seq ($m/tail)/dec/$k}}} |
| 00:30 | < catalyst> | seq = {$m = {$k = {0 = $m/head, $else = seq $m/tail dec/$k}}} |
| 00:30 | | * catalyst hm |
| 00:30 | < catalyst> | Random sidenote, I no longer think I am not very good at this stuff |
| 00:33 | <~Vornicus> | Well good |
| 00:34 | | * catalyst wonders if Vornicus has any thoughts on this stuff |
| 00:35 | < catalyst> | (Incidentally, I showed my housemates this language and one of them said 'If you want to do a PhD in programming languages, I know who to talk to') |
| 00:41 | < catalyst> | I'm near certain the novel thing about this language is the mandatory production lambda |
| 00:41 | < catalyst> | It seems to come in useful everywhere |
| 00:41 | <~Vornicus> | This is a little beyond me. despite being a math nerd a lot of the foundational stuff is very, uh |
| 00:42 | <~Vornicus> | A lot of nonsense gyrations to make things I'd prefer to just take for granted |
| 00:42 | < catalyst> | Fair |
| 00:42 | < catalyst> | I am largely interested in this because I can figure it out once, then make a computer actually do it |
| 00:43 | < catalyst> | (It's actually intended to be practical in the long run) |
| 00:43 | < catalyst> | (Depends if you consider Lisp to be practical I suppose) |
| 00:53 | <&McMartin> | CL was Python before Python was Python, ANAICT |
| 00:54 | < catalyst> | Python thinks it's a Lisp but it lacks most of the things I want from a Lisp |
| 00:54 | < catalyst> | It saddens me |
| 00:54 | < catalyst> | It's a Lisp that's been tethered to Von Neumann, mostly without consent |
| 00:55 | < catalyst> | It accidentally passed to close to hardware and got mangled in the wrong dimensions |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, but that also made it a practical batteries-included HLL with high-quality code generation in the early-1980s and that's kind of a Hell of a thing |
| 00:55 | < catalyst> | Python? |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | No, CL |
| 00:56 | < catalyst> | CL and Python are actually rather wonderful in their own ways |
| 00:56 | <&McMartin> | Also, CLOS remains a giant middle finger to pretty much the entire OOP cult, since it isn't bound by the various constraints they accidentally took for laws of nature over the decades |
| 00:56 | < catalyst> | indeed :D |
| 00:56 | < catalyst> | <3 |
| 00:56 | <&McMartin> | I'm not convinced it's *usable* for anything, but the fact that it exists is very nice |
| 00:57 | <&McMartin> | I would really like to see high-quality practical codebases that demonstrate how CLOS and ML's structure/functor mechanism work on large-scale programs |
| 00:57 | <&McMartin> | Because the former strikes me as a language designer's joy and a program designer's absinthe dream, while the latter "feels" too constrained to scale properly and I'd like to see counterexamples to prove that intuition wrong. |
| 01:28 | <~Vornicus> | what did they take for granted |
| 01:39 | <&McMartin> | Is that at me? |
| 01:40 | <&McMartin> | If so: the notion of a "this" pointer warped their designs irrevocably |
| 01:40 | <&McMartin> | CLOS methods are multiple dispatch and as a result do not bind methods to specific data layouts nearly as powerfully |
| 01:54 | < catalyst> | the notion of a this pointer is directly related to having contiguous structures in memory, it seems |
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| 02:30 | <&McMartin> | All right, managed to read the value of DOS's microsecond timer without inviting race conditions and without screwing up the system clock. |
| 02:43 | | catadroid` is now known as catadroid |
| 02:43 | < catadroid> | \o/ |
| 02:43 | < catadroid> | Sounds exciting |
| 02:45 | <&McMartin> | Just means I can actually write to ISA peripherals without them flipping out on fast machines :/ |
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| 05:02 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:00 | | * McMartin gets around to writing up his PC Speaker Adventures |
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| 08:01 | <&McMartin> | https://bumbershootsoft.wordpress.com/2016/12/10/beyond-beep-boop-mastering-the- pc-speaker/ |
| 08:01 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 08:24 | < catadroid`> | Damn, now I need to come up with a new name for my language |
| 08:25 | | catadroid` is now known as catadroid |
| 08:26 | <&McMartin> | Did it have an old name? |
| 08:31 | < catadroid> | Note |
| 08:31 | < catadroid> | Nope* |
| 08:31 | < catadroid> | I'm leaning towards Reduct |
| 08:37 | < catadroid> | Huh |
| 08:38 | < catadroid> | You never get arity errors, since every symbol is a valid lookup in any map |
| 08:38 | < catadroid> | Just most of the time errors will propagate |
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| 13:09 | <@abudhabi> | In my recent experience, I've come into contact with people who actually use Caps Lock towards productive purposes. |
| 13:30 | <@TheWatcher> | ... bwuh |
| 13:30 | <@TheWatcher> | how? |
| 13:36 | <@abudhabi> | TheWatcher: Whenever they want to input a capital letter, what they do is press caps lock, press the letter, press caps lock. |
| 13:42 | <@Azash> | Does that count as productive? |
| 13:42 | <@abudhabi> | I mean, it lets them type capital letters. |
| 13:42 | <@abudhabi> | That's useful. |
| 13:42 | <@TheWatcher> | That's, uh |
| 13:43 | | * TheWatcher just shakes his head sadly, returns to menu planning |
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| --- Log closed Sat Dec 10 15:31:29 2016 |
| --- Log opened Sat Dec 10 15:31:38 2016 |
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| 20:58 | | * Derakon mutters at C# for not supporting printf-style formatting. |
| 20:58 | <&Derakon> | I'll grant that printf-style is kind of a pain to learn starting out, but it covers a lot of useful cases and I resent being forced to learn an alternate method. |
| 21:00 | <&Derakon> | Also MSDN documentation is a tire fire. |
| 21:00 | <&Derakon> | Instead of a million examples, would it kill you to have a table listing the different format options? |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | Oh you sweet innocent child |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | Never develop for iOS or macOS |
| 21:15 | <&McMartin> | Java's documentation has its weaknesses, which Android shares, but its strengths are kind of unmatched |
| 21:15 | <&McMartin> | That also said, I can't speak much about the C# docs, come to think of it |
| 21:16 | <&McMartin> | I've always been over on the C/Win32 API side of MSDN which tends to have similar properties to Javadoc, of exhaustive discussion of what you need to know if you already know 90% of what you needed to know |
| 21:16 | <&McMartin> | (Also, re: Printf, turns out that's a vehicle for SQL Injection like attacks, it's not coming back >_<) |
| 21:17 | <&Derakon> | What, really? |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | Yep |
| 21:17 | <&Derakon> | How hard is it to write an injection-proof printf? |
| 21:17 | <&Derakon> | (Harder than I would have thought, apparently) |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | To prevent code injection: pretty easy, just drop support for format strings that write through pointer arguments |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | To avoid data leakage or segvs, basically exactly equivalent to the SQL injection problem: You have to prove the legitimate provenance of every format string. |
| 21:18 | <&[R]> | WinAPI was what I started with, then MSDN broke all my bookmarks (because finding things were a PITA to begin with), then I started getting new bookmarks... then they broke those. Then I went to PHP then to Linux land. |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.string.format(v=vs.110).aspx#For matItem |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | This looks like it might be the part you want, Derakon |
| 21:19 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, I found what I needed. |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> | I do wonder though if C# doesn't have something like, um, I forget what Java called it |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> | Where you could go, like |
| 21:20 | <&Derakon> | What I was missing is that C#'s string.Format method delegates formatting decisions to the class that is being inserted into the string. |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | out.write("The number is ").write(12).write("."); |
| 21:20 | <&Derakon> | So there isn't a global printf-style "d means int, f means float, etc." table. |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | Aha |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, that's like the Javadoc weakness |
| 21:21 | <&McMartin> | "Do you actually already know the broad outlines of how to use this system? If so, you're very happy to have this. Otherwise, good luck finding purchase" |
| 21:21 | <&McMartin> | Speaking of Linux |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | The way I've sort of been strolling forwards through history and x86 sophistication in my little experiments does kind of imply that the next thing I should be doing is reading Linux bootloaders~ |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | With that under my belt I would then be able to maybe comprehend DOS extenders. >_> |
| 21:23 | <&[R]> | Going to look at Syslinux or LILO? |
| 21:23 | <&McMartin> | Other than "GRUB uses EFI and so I don't want to start there" I am honestly open to suggestions; I know very little about either of those. |
| 21:23 | <&McMartin> | Though I've used both |
| 21:24 | <&McMartin> | LILO Back In The Day, and Syslinux to bootstrap into 16-bit real-mode on my laptop. |
| 21:24 | <&McMartin> | I suppose that's Advantage Syslinux since I've got it right here and I've been using it. |
| 21:24 | <&[R]> | Well, I figgured GRUB's probably some kind of ugly mess of code. |
| 21:25 | <&McMartin> | I'm kind of expecting that for all of them :) |
| 21:25 | <&McMartin> | But GRUB's the one that's implementing the multiboot standard which means Stuff Added By Committee, etc. |
| 21:25 | <&McMartin> | And also The Stuff You Cared About Probably Happens Somewhere Else |
| 21:25 | <&McMartin> | I'm primarily interested in how it sets up protected mode from a BIOS start. |
| 21:26 | <&[R]> | Syslinux implements UEFI as well now too apparently. |
| 21:26 | <&McMartin> | Oho |
| 21:26 | <&McMartin> | Well, if it can be set aside, as it were, then that's still fine, I guess |
| 21:27 | <&[R]> | However, like the rest of it, it's likely just a module. |
| 21:27 | <&McMartin> | I remember reading somewhere that LILO hardcodes disk blocks to boot from past the first or some similar thing |
| 21:27 | <&McMartin> | That sounds kind of klugey |
| 21:27 | <&[R]> | Eww, yeah |
| 21:27 | <&[R]> | I know GRUB was nigh impossible to install of two of my systems. |
| 21:27 | <@celticminstrel> | Don't you normally call it FIFO rather than LILO? |
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| 21:28 | <&[R]> | LInux LOader |
| 21:28 | <&McMartin> | If that's not a joke, we're talking about LILO, the old linux bootloader from, like, Yggdrasil |
| 21:28 | <&[R]> | Slackware still defaults to it. |
| 21:28 | <&McMartin> | Slackware still also partitions its repo into "floppy disk sets" |
| 21:28 | <&[R]> | (As of 13.37, which is the last version I used) |
| 21:28 | <&[R]> | lol |
| 21:29 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh. That explains a lot. |
| 21:29 | <&McMartin> | One of the other guys I talk to a bunch here is actually Slack-default for everything |
| 21:29 | | * celticminstrel assumed it stood for Last In Last Out. |
| 21:29 | <&McMartin> | Ah, OK, in that case, it wasn't a joke, and yeah, we're talking Linux bootloaders :) |
| 21:29 | <&[R]> | Technically... they can load other things too |
| 21:29 | <&McMartin> | R: The other thing about GRUB, unlike syslinux et al, is that IIRC GRUB is intended to be an omnibootloader |
| 21:30 | <&McMartin> | Like, on purpose instead of via batshittery |
| 21:30 | <&McMartin> | (And yeah, I've been using syslinux because it can be used to boot into FreeDOS) |
| 21:31 | <&[R]> | Yeah, I found GRUB a pain to install myself. LILO is... well... let's just say I've forgotten to invoke it after changing the configs a few too many times. |
| 21:31 | | * McMartin has just been leaving it to the package manager for years. |
| 21:31 | <&[R]> | Syslinux is occasionally arcane, but seems to be sane overall. |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | There's *something wrong* with how I've been using it, but I can't nail it down. |
| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | This is my weekly ping to ToxicFrog as to whether or not he's gotten a chance to look at that disk image~ |
| 21:32 | <@Tamber> | McM: idly, there's also grub classic vs grub2.0~ |
| 21:33 | <&McMartin> | (I seem to be able to boot off of CDs with syslinux, but not USB sticks - but TF has successfully booted USB sticks off of identical hardware) |
| 21:33 | <@Tamber> | grub classic is the nice easy-to-understand one that you configure with menu.lst; grub2.0 is the one that has an /etc/grub.d/ that you make all your changes in, then generate a menu.lst that you shouldn't touch because it'll overwrite it at some point in the future and give you a headache. |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, but honestly, at this point, I can't blame it |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | The PC ecosystem is, if not a tire fire, at the very least a squirming tub of hyperactive bait. |
| 21:35 | <@Tamber> | Can't really argue with you there. |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | I am reasonably convinced that this is why it won |
| 21:35 | <@Tamber> | Why, because it sucked more than everything else? :p |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | Because "sucking" is actually imposing an incredibly strict modularity requirement on peripherals and chipsets and CPUs. |
| 21:36 | <&McMartin> | Which means that everything ends up being very modular and spectacularly interoperable in ways that the other systems in the 1980s could not match. |
| 21:36 | <@Tamber> | *nods* |
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| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | I'm not sure I'm to "reasonably convinced" yet on this particular one, but I am at least willing to argue the thesis that what actually granted this advantage was the decision by IBM back in 1981 to say "all the I/O devices will be plugged into this bus" |
| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | Compare the Commodore 64, where specific chips end up having to show up with specific interconnects, and then one of those things is, say, "The User Port" |
| 21:38 | <&McMartin> | And instead of bus contention, the chips all have a big, pre-worked-out protocol about who gets to touch memory when, etc. |
| 21:38 | <&McMartin> | It can be made to work |
| 21:38 | <@Tamber> | "But..." |
| 21:38 | <&McMartin> | But you're basically reimplementing for a system-specific interconnect something that otherwise could be totally independent. |
| 21:39 | <&McMartin> | And usually that's "you have one peripheral and it goes there" |
| 21:39 | <&McMartin> | It's possible that by 1985 or so people started catching up to this, but I don't know offhand the degree to which they just started being compatible with those highly modular devices designed for IBM systems. |
| 21:40 | <&McMartin> | There's probably someone here who knows if Power Macs took ISA/PCI/AGP, even though I don't off the top of my head |
| 21:40 | | * Vornicus replaces bus contention with trolley contention |
| 21:40 | | * Vornicus knows! |
| 21:41 | <~Vornicus> | At least by 2003, power macs were PCI & AGP inside |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | Tamber: The other fun part of that independence was that thanks to cheaping out and using an 8088 with read/write buffer circuitry, cheaper than feeding a proper 8086 a 16-bit data bus... |
| 21:41 | <@celticminstrel> | I had a PowerMac, but I have no idea what ISA or AGP is. |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | ... meant that PCs and their clones have always had bus speed and CPU speed divorced from each other |
| 21:41 | <~Vornicus> | AGP was the pre-pcie video card connection |
| 21:41 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't think I ever did anything inside the case. |
| 21:42 | <@Tamber> | McM: Which is, I guess, a tiny bit weird at first; but has some quite distinct advantages. |
| 21:42 | <~Vornicus> | and ISA was basically pre-pci |
| 21:42 | <&McMartin> | This meant, among other things, that that PC Speaker timing/programming code I wrote last week runs bit-exact unmodified on a 2GHz Core i7 exactly as well as it does on a 12 Mhz PC AT. |
| 21:42 | <@Tamber> | :D |
| 21:42 | | * abudhabi remembers ISA! |
| 21:42 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, I do know that they didn't use a VGA connection, but that's presumable not directly related. |
| 21:43 | <&McMartin> | It's just that the time from IRQ to HLT is way shorter in the first case~ |
| 21:43 | <~Vornicus> | No, that's a different kind of connection entirely |
| 21:44 | | * Tamber brandishes a 13W3 cable in celticminstrel's general direction... |
| 21:44 | <~Vornicus> | we're talking motherboard-attached card peripherals) |
| 21:44 | <@celticminstrel> | A what now... |
| 21:44 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, I figured, Vorn. |
| 21:44 | <@Tamber> | (Monitor cable for yet more obsolete iron~) |
| 21:44 | <&McMartin> | Also, in case there's any danger of me sounding like an expert, I only actually learned about the significance of northbridge vs southbridge like three days ago. |
| 21:45 | | * Derakon swears at code autocompletion. |
| 21:45 | <&Derakon> | Stop trying to help me! |
| 21:45 | <~Vornicus> | I have no idea what the hell those do either |
| 21:45 | <~Vornicus> | like in the first place. |
| 21:46 | <&Derakon> | I could turn it off, but then I would have zero ability to discover functions. |
| 21:46 | <~Vornicus> | (what is the significance?) |
| 21:46 | <&Derakon> | What I need is some way to only turn it on when it's wanted. |
| 21:46 | <&McMartin> | It's called the north/south bridge because you draw northbridge higher up on the page |
| 21:46 | <&McMartin> | Derakon: Are you using VS Code here, VS proper, or that awful fork of MonoDevelop bundled with Unity? |
| 21:46 | <&Derakon> | That last one. |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: Anyway, the chip itself is at the very top of the page |
| 21:47 | <~Vornicus> | Der: there should already exist a keybinding for activating autocomplete whereever you are. |
| 21:47 | <&Derakon> | I'm on OSX; I'm not sure VS is available. |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | VS Code runs on everything but is basically a glorified text editor |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | VS proper doesn't exist yet but when it does it will be a less awful fork of MonoDevelop, AIUI |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | (Unity's is unusually outdated for dumb legal reasons I forgot as soon as I read about them) |
| 21:47 | <~Vornicus> | https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/visual-studio-mac/ This is less than three weeks old |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | Welp |
| 21:48 | <&McMartin> | I guess my intelligence was out of date~ |
| 21:48 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: Anyway, this means the "northbridge" is the bus to stuff that needs to respond really fast, like memory |
| 21:48 | <&Derakon> | Okay, noted. |
| 21:48 | <&McMartin> | I use VS Code for writing Rust and pretty much nothing else, but then, I've been an Emacs Guy for years |
| 21:48 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: And then Southbridge is what does interconnect to "normal" I/O |
| 21:48 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, I'd be happier in vim. |
| 21:49 | <&McMartin> | Things that measure response time in whole numbers of microseconds, etc |
| 21:49 | <&Derakon> | The problem really is autocomplete, because every autocomplete ever wants to activate all the fucking time and I only want it to activate when I'm trying to find a function I don't know about. |
| 21:49 | <&Derakon> | And then my arrow keys get changed from "navigate through the document" to "navigate through the autocomplete menu and select something from it" leading me to type things I don't want. |
| 21:49 | <&Derakon> | Ahem. |
| 21:49 | <&Derakon> | Not that I'm annoyed. |
| 21:50 | <~Vornicus> | no, not in the slightest. |
| 21:50 | | * McMartin raeg at Xcode's autocomplete, which tends to fire when he doesn't want it to, fails to fire when he does, and sometimes, when firing, only fills in half the method name |
| 21:50 | <&McMartin> | The latter is ObjC's fault, but ObjC existing is also Xcode's fault |
| 21:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Eh? |
| 21:50 | <&McMartin> | ObjC is the only reasonably mainstream programming language I know of where ragged left and right edges are part of the standard indent style |
| 21:50 | <@celticminstrel> | My XCode only activates autocomplete on request. |
| 21:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Control-space or escape. |
| 21:51 | <~Vornicus> | there should be a button -- I don't know what it is, but it should exist, something like shift-space or shift-enter ctrl-tab or something are my first guesses -- that fires off autocomplete, so you can turn the autoautocomplete off |
| 21:51 | <&McMartin> | How did you get that, and does it work if you navigate to an incomplete method name |
| 21:51 | <&McMartin> | I get it as long as I'm in the middle of typing a method name |
| 21:51 | <&McMartin> | And, well |
| 21:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Somewhere in preferences is an option to turn off autocomplete while typing. |
| 21:51 | <&McMartin> | The whole ObjC thing of [obj methodWithArg1: andArg2: andArg3:] |
| 21:52 | <~Vornicus> | Ewk. |
| 21:52 | <&McMartin> | And I find that Xcode regularly kind of forgets that to autocomplete the rest of the method |
| 21:52 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: The *best* part of that is that the standard - even in Emacs - indentation style is that when your method call spans multiple lines, you indent it *so that those colons line up* |
| 21:52 | <@celticminstrel> | What are the system requirements for VS Mac anyway. Probably won't work on my 10-year-old computer, right. |
| 21:53 | <&[R]> | How'd the fuck up a text editor that badly? |
| 21:53 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, in XCode 4, I've never had it forget to complete part of a method name, but I don't do much Objective-C. |
| 21:53 | <&[R]> | they* |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | IIRC, VS Code runs in electron, and MonoDevelop runs in Mono |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | Mono ought to run on 10.9 or so at least |
| 21:53 | <@celticminstrel> | I meant Vorn's link. |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | Right, my impression is that VS Mac is Secretly MonoDevelop. |
| 21:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | Not that secretly; it was why MS aquired Xamarin |
| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | R: Which "they" there? |
| 21:54 | <@celticminstrel> | "ragged left and right edges"? |
| 21:54 | <&[R]> | McMartin: <celticminstrel> What are the system requirements for VS Mac anyway. Probably won't work on my 10-year-old computer, right. |
| 21:54 | <@celticminstrel> | I'd actually like to turn off autocomplete-while-you-type in MSVC 2013, too... |
| 21:55 | <&McMartin> | a ragged edge is one where it doesn't form clean columns. |
| 21:55 | <&McMartin> | Unjustified text generally has a ragged right edge. |
| 21:55 | <&McMartin> | R: VS Code is a text editor. VS proper is an IDE. |
| 21:55 | <~Vornicus> | [R]: this is also a mac we're talking about |
| 21:55 | <&McMartin> | macOS has an unnerving tendency to Just Break Shit on OS upgrades. |
| 21:56 | <&McMartin> | macOS Sierra - 10.12, the latest one - forced recompiles of pretty much every 3rd-party tool I've ever used. |
| 21:56 | <&McMartin> | This included things like Z-Code interpreters. |
| 21:57 | | * McMartin suddenly realizes that "a 10-year-old Mac" is just on the edge of maybe not being an x86 machine, which *would indeed* be something of a problem. |
| 21:58 | <&[R]> | That would be yeah |
| 21:58 | <&[R]> | Is PPC dead now? |
| 21:58 | <@celticminstrel> | It is in fact an x86 64-bit machine. |
| 21:58 | <&Derakon> | [R] It's been dead as an Apple vehicle for awhile. |
| 21:58 | <@celticminstrel> | The very first such, I think. |
| 21:58 | <&Derakon> | It's still around in embedded contexts I think? |
| 21:59 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, they stopped making ppc macs around ...ten years ago |
| 21:59 | <&McMartin> | ISTR the GameCube, Wii and Wii U being Power based? |
| 21:59 | <@celticminstrel> | (For Apple. that is.) |
| 21:59 | <&McMartin> | Maybe even the N64 |
| 21:59 | <@Tamber> | [R]: I'd say that, if it's not dead, it's probably feeling a bit poorly. |
| 21:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Wii is PPC, yes. No idea about other Nintendo ones. |
| 21:59 | <&McMartin> | N64 was MIPS, it seems. |
| 21:59 | <~Vornicus> | n64 is a MIPS |
| 22:00 | <&McMartin> | Like the PS1 |
| 22:00 | <~Vornicus> | Which if you'd remembered the rabbit's name in mario 64 you'd know~ |
| 22:00 | <~Vornicus> | Wii U is PPC, and so is Cube |
| 22:01 | <&McMartin> | Switch is going over to ARMv8, IIRC? |
| 22:01 | <&McMartin> | It's a Tegra SoC, anyway |
| 22:04 | <~Vornicus> | likely |
| 22:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: not yet, sorry |
| 23:08 | <&[R]> | "At the moment (summer of 2013), I recommend using SYSLINUX only if you want to experiment with a brand-new boot loader. " |
| 23:08 | <&[R]> | lolwut |
| 23:08 | <&[R]> | The entire project has been around as far as I can remember. |
| 23:11 | | * Vornicus chews the internet |
| 23:12 | <&[R]> | I mean, it's on version 6... |
| 23:13 | | * McMartin fixes his Sound Blaster code. |
| 23:36 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 23:37 | | * Alek never played N64 except for store demos a bit... |
| 23:50 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| --- Log closed Sun Dec 11 00:00:13 2016 |