| --- Log opened Sun Nov 20 00:00:16 2016 |
| 00:26 | | grindhold [quassel@Nightstar-0ona3l.cyan.servdiscount-customer.com] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 00:40 | <@Alek> | something about 80-volt cordless drill and 22-caliber cartridges in a belt feed making for 420 rounds a minute, I think. |
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| 00:56 | <@celticminstrel> | "git fidd" huh. |
| 00:56 | <@celticminstrel> | No, I did not mean "add". |
| 01:27 | <@celticminstrel> | Trying to figure out how I can show a file-chooser in JS and determine whether the user clicked cancel. |
| 01:27 | <@celticminstrel> | First part is easy. Second part is hard, unless there's some other way to show the chooser than input.click(), because the latter returns immediately. |
| 01:30 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm hm. I guess the change event would do what I want; since it's a newly constructed element, it'll start empty, so if they choose something it'll change and if the don't it won't. |
| 01:50 | <@celticminstrel> | I hope localStorage.getItem() doesn't throw security exceptions... |
| 02:23 | <&[R]> | https://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/dndfiles/ <-- that help you any? |
| 02:24 | <@celticminstrel> | That was actually the first link I found, I think. And it did help, yes. |
| 02:24 | <@celticminstrel> | That was the first part. |
| 02:24 | <@celticminstrel> | Anyway, I've solved the problem now. |
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| 02:26 | <@celticminstrel> | https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/malandread/commit/a70ad37 |
| 02:27 | <@celticminstrel> | I guess the relevant code is way at the bottom. |
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| 04:09 | <&Derakon> | Gotta say, it does annoy me how little Lua has in terms of useful data structures. |
| 04:09 | <&Derakon> | Sure, you can do anything with tables, but that doesn't make it pleasant to use them. |
| 04:09 | <&Derakon> | And I'd really rather not have to implement e.g. my own queue datastructure. |
| 04:10 | <@celticminstrel> | Tables can be used as a queue without anything extra, can't they? |
| 04:10 | <&Derakon> | "Although we can implement queues trivially using insert and remove (from the table library), this implementation can be too slow for large structures." |
| 04:10 | <@celticminstrel> | Using the functions in the "table" table. |
| 04:10 | <&Derakon> | From https://www.lua.org/pil/11.4.html |
| 04:10 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay fine. |
| 04:10 | <&Derakon> | More generally, one-based indexing is a sign of brain damage. >.< |
| 04:10 | <&Derakon> | It pisses me off every time I encounter it. |
| 04:10 | <&Derakon> | (Pretty sure I harped on this earlier, but it still bugs me) |
| 04:13 | <@celticminstrel> | It's not a sign of brain damage. |
| 04:14 | <&[R]> | It's a sign that the language is expected to be used by those with brain damage, due to the fact it causes brain damage from being used. |
| 04:14 | <@celticminstrel> | No, it's not. |
| 04:15 | <&[R]> | Can you name a sane language that uses 1-based indexing? |
| 04:18 | <@celticminstrel> | Lua seems sane enough to me? |
| 04:18 | <@macdjord> | Derakon: In anything except very low-level work, 1-indexing is more natural and better than 0-indexing. Unfortunately, it has such cultural inertia now that using 1-dixing simply isn't worth it. |
| 04:18 | <@celticminstrel> | I feel like there might be something Lisp-like too (Logo?), not sure. Also some Pascal-based things (Turing?). |
| 04:19 | <@celticminstrel> | Anyway, what macdjord said. |
| 04:19 | <&Derakon> | I will note that 1-indexing is particularly broken for "I want to select a random item from this list" and "I want to loop from the end of the list to the start". You have to throw in +1s that aren't otherwise needed. |
| 04:20 | <@celticminstrel> | That doesn't make it broken. |
| 04:20 | <&Derakon> | I didn't say it was broken, I just said it was damaged. |
| 04:20 | <@celticminstrel> | Also, by that argument, 0-based indexing is broken for "I want to loop from the beginning of the list to the end", because you have to throw in -1s that aren't otherwise needed. |
| 04:20 | <&Derakon> | It still gets the job done, just worse than it could have. |
| 04:20 | <@celticminstrel> | You used the word "broken", so. |
| 04:20 | <&Derakon> | for i = 0; i < len(list); ++i |
| 04:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | macdjord, celticminstrel: low-level work? 0-indexing is way more convenient for coordinates and for wrapping around an array with %, both things I do a lot. |
| 04:20 | <&Derakon> | There's no offset there. |
| 04:21 | <@macdjord> | Derakon: No it doesn't. for (i = 1; i <= len; i++) |
| 04:21 | <&Derakon> | Mac: that's fine, wrapping around isn't. |
| 04:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | I like Lua but I'm pretty comfortable calling 1-indexing a wart, especially considering that it's meant to interface heavily with C, which is...0-indexed. |
| 04:21 | <&Derakon> | In 0-indexing you can do "i = i % len(list)" |
| 04:21 | <&[R]> | I like the interaction with C point earlier. Where you have to make needless conversions on the indexes. |
| 04:21 | <@macdjord> | ToxicFrog: Okay, wrapping I'll grant you. |
| 04:22 | <~Vornicus> | also dimension changes, also random selection |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | How is random selection even relevant? |
| 04:22 | | * celticminstrel has no idea what you mean by dimension changes. |
| 04:22 | <&Derakon> | I'm writing a game? |
| 04:22 | <&Derakon> | I want my AI to pick one of their valid actions at random. |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | No, I mean, how does 0 vs 1 indexing have any impact on it. |
| 04:22 | <@macdjord> | Derakon: randint(1, len) |
| 04:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | Derakon: actions[math.random(1, #actions)] ? |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | Assuming closed range, yes. |
| 04:23 | <@macdjord> | As opposed to randint(0,len-1) |
| 04:23 | <&Derakon> | ...okay, you're right, I already have that written. >.> |
| 04:23 | <~Vornicus> | celmin: pile[random() * len(pile)] |
| 04:23 | <@celticminstrel> | (Picking a skill at random is pretty terrible though.) |
| 04:23 | <@macdjord> | Vornicus: So Don't Do That Then~ |
| 04:23 | <&Derakon> | CM: you'd be amazed at how awesome games are made from shitty AIs. |
| 04:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: that assumes all you have is a random() that returns something in the range [0.0, 1.0) |
| 04:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which isn't usually the case and definitely isn't the case in lua specifically. |
| 04:24 | <@celticminstrel> | Derakon: Sure, but when monsters keep healing uninjured allies (or self) or try to summon when there's no free space, that's pretty terrible. |
| 04:24 | <&Derakon> | Note I said valid actions~ |
| 04:24 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, okay. |
| 04:24 | <@macdjord> | celticminstrel: Irrelevent; it was a random example of why you might want to pick a random element from a list. |
| 04:25 | <@celticminstrel> | ? |
| 04:25 | <&Derakon> | Eh, if he wants to go on a tangent, I think we've milked the 1-indexing argument for all it's good for. |
| 04:25 | <&Derakon> | So by all means, argue about game AIs now. |
| 04:25 | | * celticminstrel knew it was a tangent and not directly relevant to the 1-indexing thing. |
| 04:25 | <@celticminstrel> | That's why it was initially parenthesized. |
| 04:25 | <&ToxicFrog> | Derakon: as far as data structures go, I'm pretty sure this is part of the "keep the core minimal" philosphy; there's an assload of utility libraries that add various structures with various tradeoffs, if you don't feel like writing your own from scratch. |
| 04:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | (maps, sets, and vectors you get essentially for free and 90% of the time that's all I need, so) |
| 04:26 | <&Derakon> | TF: got a recommended place to look for them? |
| 04:26 | <&Derakon> | Like, is there a registry or repository or something? |
| 04:28 | <~Vornicus> | dimension change: consider a thing which is indexed two ways: one 1-dimensional, one 2-dimensional. if the indexes are 0-based, then k = y*w + x, y = k // w, x = k % w. 1-based means you have k = (y - 1)*w + x, y = (k - 1) // w + 1, x = (k - 1) % w + 1 |
| 04:30 | <@celticminstrel> | So clearly Pascal is best, right? |
| 04:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Derakon: http://lua-users.org/wiki/LibrariesAndBindings is a community-maintained directory |
| 04:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Derakon: and https://luarocks.org/ is the lua CPAN-alike |
| 04:36 | <&Derakon> | Good to know, thanks! |
| 04:46 | <&Derakon> | It does kind of bug me that I can't find license info prominently displayed on luarocks. |
| 04:47 | <&Derakon> | ...nemmind, I'm blind. |
| 04:53 | | * Derakon glares at his brain. |
| 04:54 | <&Derakon> | I can't tell what dumb error I'm making. |
| 04:54 | <&Derakon> | function Battleground:pathfind(start, end) |
| 04:54 | <&Derakon> | ...oh, it's that I named a variable "end", isn't it? |
| 04:54 | <&Derakon> | Yep. |
| 04:54 | <&Derakon> | Thank you for being my rubber ducky, #code. |
| 05:00 | <&[R]> | I'm guessing that's because Lua decided words are better tokens? |
| 05:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | [R]: end is a reserved word in lua, yes |
| 05:01 | <&[R]> | That much I gathered |
| 05:02 | | * celticminstrel curious what you'd call it instead. |
| 05:03 | <&Derakon> | I assume [R] meant "as opposed to using } or ) or some other symbol". |
| 05:03 | <&[R]> | ^ |
| 05:03 | <&Derakon> | And yeah, Lua's pretty sparing with the glyphs. |
| 05:04 | <&Derakon> | I appreciate that kind of thing. Words are easier to read. |
| 05:04 | <@celticminstrel> | No, I mean since it's a reserved word, what name would you use for the variable. |
| 05:04 | <&Derakon> | Oh. |
| 05:04 | <&Derakon> | end_cell. |
| 05:04 | <@celticminstrel> | I see. |
| 05:04 | <&Derakon> | If I weren't in a grid-based map I'd use end_pos or something similar. |
| 05:04 | <@celticminstrel> | There's no good synonym for end though... best I can think of is "final". |
| 05:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | I generally use start/finish or first/last or the like |
| 05:04 | <&[R]> | "done" but Lua reserves that too doesn't it? |
| 05:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | For grid stuff it's (x,y,w,h) |
| 05:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, finish, sure. |
| 05:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Pretty sure Lua does not reserve done. |
| 05:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | [R]: no. |
| 05:05 | <&[R]> | Last is a good one though |
| 05:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Last doesn't go well with start though. |
| 05:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Behold, all the reserved words in lua: https://www.lua.org/manual/5.2/manual.html#3.1 |
| 05:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Fewer than in C. |
| 05:07 | <&[R]> | If I were forced to deal with a language that used full word tokens for block markers, and the person responsible for chosing that language were dealing with my code, I'd go full spite mode and use carret/dollar. |
| 05:07 | <&Derakon> | Heh. |
| 05:07 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:07 | <&Derakon[AFK]> | Time for bed. Night. |
| 05:07 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't get it? |
| 05:07 | <&[R]> | Regexes |
| 05:08 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, yeah, I see it's referencing that, but... |
| 05:08 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, wait, you're saying you'd name the variables "caret" and "dollar"? |
| 05:08 | <&[R]> | Yeah |
| 05:08 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah, heh |
| 05:08 | <&[R]> | Or car/dol |
| 05:10 | <@celticminstrel> | That'd probably confuse anyone. |
| 05:10 | <~Vornicus> | in python if you find yourself needing a name that's the same as a reserved word, convention is to append _ to it. Making a D&D character? It's got a class_ |
| 05:11 | | * celticminstrel would probably call it something like charClass (or char_class, depending which convention I happen to be feeling like using). |
| 05:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | job |
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| 13:44 | <@gnolam> | http://seiferteric.com/?p=356 |
| 13:44 | <@gnolam> | https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/18/this-security-camera-was-infected-by-malware-i n-98-seconds-after-it-was-plugged-in/ |
| 13:59 | | * TheWatcher eyes that QR code thing |
| 13:59 | <@TheWatcher> | .... why?! |
| 14:32 | <@gnolam> | Same reason you'd do IP over Avian Carriers, or TCP/IP over bongo drums. |
| 14:40 | <@TheWatcher> | Because you have too much time on your hands? >.> |
| 14:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | ```` |
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| 19:52 | | * celticminstrel is looking at the regex engine I wrote for fun awhile ago. |
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| 21:02 | <@celticminstrel> | Suddenly my key handlers are mysteriously not working... |
| 21:02 | <@Logar> | celticminstrel: Fire them and hire new ones, with less taste for drink and more taste for working hard handling your keys! |
| 21:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Ha ha |
| 21:14 | <@celticminstrel> | Why is Object.watch not working... |
| 21:15 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, I see. |
| 21:17 | <@celticminstrel> | So basically I had a corrupt save state that for some reason claims the gamestate is in "popup" mode rather than "playing" mode, I think... |
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| 22:06 | <@celticminstrel> | Blargh, how do I remove an event listener set with $().eventname()... |
| 22:07 | <@Logar> | Keep a reference somehow? |
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| 22:10 | <@celticminstrel> | Wait, did .off() actually do what I want after all? |
| 22:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Looks like I misunderstood the documentation. |
| 22:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Or forgot that .keydown(...) was the same as .on("keydown",...). |
| 22:12 | <&[R]> | Were you only wanting the event to fire once? |
| 22:12 | <@celticminstrel> | No. |
| 22:12 | <&[R]> | If so there's a one-time hook IIRC |
| 22:12 | <&[R]> | Otherwise I'm not even certain of the usecase for removing a handler |
| 22:12 | <@celticminstrel> | The handler is installed when the game begins. I added a way to get back to the menu, so I wanted to remove the handler when that happens. |
| 22:13 | <@celticminstrel> | Previously reloading the page was the only way to get back to the menu. |
| 22:14 | <@celticminstrel> | Which is fine for testing (you want it reloaded anyway to refresh stuff), but when playing it's kinda silly. |
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| --- Log closed Mon Nov 21 00:00:32 2016 |