| --- Log opened Wed Oct 26 00:00:02 2016 |
| --- Day changed Wed Oct 26 2016 |
| 00:00 | | himi [sjjf@Nightstar-jcoeh9.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #code |
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| 15:52 | < catadroid> | Christ some of our code has some awful design decisions in it |
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| 16:02 | <~Vornicus> | So it is with all code. |
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| 16:15 | | VirusJTG_ [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
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| 16:18 | < catadroid> | This is tokens introduced through macros... In C++ |
| 16:18 | < catadroid> | It frustrates the hell out of me |
| 16:39 | <~Vornicus> | D: |
| 16:52 | | * ErikMesoy spots odd code in Yahoo Mail browser rendering |
| 16:53 | <@ErikMesoy> | I have N unread messages. I open a read message. Unread message count briefly flickers to N-1 before correcting itself. |
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| 17:24 | <~Vornicus> | that is odd. |
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| 19:15 | | abudhabi is now known as Logar |
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| 21:02 | <@gnolam> | https://twitter.com/abt_programming/status/790964395824283648 |
| 21:09 | < catalyst> | :D |
| 21:15 | <&VirusJTG> | java does need to die |
| 21:15 | <&VirusJTG> | in nuclear fire |
| 21:15 | <&VirusJTG> | at the core |
| 21:15 | <&VirusJTG> | of a super massive star |
| 21:15 | <&VirusJTG> | just as it goes supernove and colapses into a black hole |
| 21:16 | < catalyst> | gosh |
| 21:16 | < catalyst> | say what you really think |
| 21:16 | < catalyst> | don't sit on the fence :o |
| 21:16 | <&VirusJTG> | lol |
| 21:17 | <@Tamber> | Virus doesn't so much sit on the fence, as drive a tank through it. |
| 21:17 | <@gnolam> | That's not how you solve fencepost errors... |
| 21:17 | < Vash> | XD |
| 21:18 | <&VirusJTG> | if the tank treads are grinding under the fence posts isn't that "sitting on the fence" :-P |
| 21:19 | < catalyst> | :D |
| 21:19 | < Vash> | <3 Virus |
| 21:28 | <&VirusJTG> | \o/ |
| 21:29 | <&VirusJTG> | and while it was the bane of my very existence for 5 years.... I do love me some C++ |
| 21:31 | < catalyst> | C++ is alright and improving |
| 21:36 | | * VirusJTG giggles has he sends shutdown -m \\remotehost -s -f -t 0 to a remote machine misbehaving |
| 21:42 | | catalyst [catalyst@Nightstar-bt5k4h.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 21:58 | <&VirusJTG> | ok, another user ground under for the day |
| 21:58 | <&VirusJTG> | now where was I, oh yes.... java..... |
| 21:59 | <&McMartin> | Is your objection to the core language, the platform, the ecosystem, or the entire language class? |
| 22:00 | <&McMartin> | (Indeed, there is so much to choose from, but some of it is why it seems to have conquered the world so damn hard) |
| 22:01 | <&VirusJTG> | the JRE, the numerous hupdates that don't uninstall what was to be updated (past sins), how it is handeled, and most of the crap written in it, every dev kit of it I have ever had to touch, and the crapp interfaces, and devices that use it |
| 22:03 | <&McMartin> | I'm definitely a fan of languages with more than one implementation. |
| 22:03 | <&McMartin> | Though that does end up producing hilarity like https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=25609 |
| 22:04 | <&VirusJTG> | I'm honestly not sure if I should laugh or cry at that... |
| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | This is the part where the people who prefer languages with only one real implementation point and laugh at us |
| 22:05 | <@Tamber> | Wait, is that someone Drepper-ing Drepper? |
| 22:06 | <&McMartin> | I think we mostly have to just take it with decent grace and acknowledge that we aren't perfect, just right on the balance~ |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | Tamber: I am unfamiliar with the players in this particular soap opera. I see Drepper has reported this but I am unaware of his reputation or, indeed, what one is denoting when using his name as a verb |
| 22:11 | <@Tamber> | He's ...got a reputation for being, to put it incredibly mildly, a Difficult Person To Deal With. |
| 22:13 | <@Tamber> | I think he actually revells in that reputation, and does everything he can to further it~ |
| 22:14 | <&McMartin> | I guess my question is "is this just general assholery or it is a very specific variety of assholery that is sufficiently distinctive to be named differently" |
| 22:15 | <@Tamber> | General assholery cranked up to levels that make Torvalds look like an absolute saint, on a bad day. |
| 22:16 | <&McMartin> | Okay~ |
| 22:16 | | Logar is now known as abudhabi |
| 22:16 | | * McMartin has rather consistently declined to identify himself as part of the OSS community, but rather as someone who uses and develops open source software |
| 22:16 | <&McMartin> | People like what I see here are not *why* I do that, but they sure don't lead me to reconsider it |
| 22:17 | <@Tamber> | (Drepper is Mr "I don't care I broke glibc on ARM, because embedded is crap") |
| 22:18 | <&McMartin> | lol |
| 22:18 | <@Tamber> | https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=5070 |
| 22:18 | <&McMartin> | Not the specific cultural flaw that kept me at arm's length, but one I do recognize -_- |
| 22:19 | <&McMartin> | The one that sets me off is the default assumption that end users are basically parasites |
| 22:19 | <&VirusJTG> | now, I would argue embeded does indeed have a place and a use |
| 22:19 | <@Tamber> | It has many places, and many uses. Not all of them great, but, y'know... there's a lot more embedded stuff out there than machines on desktops. *grin* |
| 22:20 | <&McMartin> | Pretty sure I own more ARM devices than x86 devices. |
| 22:20 | <&VirusJTG> | does a car and a motorcycle count, becuase if they do I own a crap ton more ARM the x86/x64 |
| 22:20 | <&McMartin> | Assuming they indeed have ARM |
| 22:21 | <&McMartin> | A lot of those apparently are still using Z80s and 6502s, which I find hilarious but in some sense unsurprising |
| 22:21 | <&VirusJTG> | considering one has at least 3 ECUs the other an ECU and a GPS... |
| 22:21 | <&McMartin> | Totally counts |
| 22:21 | <&VirusJTG> | strangly the GPS isn't in the car... |
| 22:21 | <@Tamber> | The ECU in my car -- mid-1994 vintage~ -- has an 8051 in it, apparently. |
| 22:21 | <&McMartin> | Not that strange, most peoples' GPSes are their phones these days, right? |
| 22:22 | <&McMartin> | Basically all phones are ARM-based, and then on top of that I still have my old GBA |
| 22:22 | <&VirusJTG> | in my case, yes |
| 22:22 | <&VirusJTG> | hard to use the phone on the bike tough |
| 22:22 | <&VirusJTG> | two hands needed |
| 22:22 | <&VirusJTG> | and 2 feet for that matter |
| 22:22 | <&McMartin> | Nintendo handhelds are all ARM based from the GBA on, so I've got a solid count of those |
| 22:23 | <&VirusJTG> | I've owned my fair sahre of ARM then |
| 22:23 | <&VirusJTG> | share |
| 22:23 | <&VirusJTG> | I'm prety sure my router is also ARM |
| 22:23 | <@Tamber> | It's almost like ARM makes up a significant portion of the embedded world~ |
| 22:23 | <&McMartin> | Do RPis count as embedded? |
| 22:23 | <&VirusJTG> | I assume what it didn't own it would... |
| 22:23 | <@Tamber> | McM: Depends on how hard you throw them, and what at. |
| 22:24 | <&McMartin> | *rimshot.ogg* |
| 22:24 | <&VirusJTG> | lol Tamber |
| 22:24 | <&McMartin> | I've only ever really seen them in cases that make them basically super-tiny desktops |
| 22:24 | <&McMartin> | But it seemed like that wasn't *really* the intent |
| 22:24 | <&VirusJTG> | ahh the SIP converters we use are ARM |
| 22:24 | <@Tamber> | See, it keeps cropping up everywhere! |
| 22:24 | <&VirusJTG> | I learned something new today |
| 22:25 | <&McMartin> | ARM assembly language is pretty crazy |
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| 22:25 | <&VirusJTG> | wb cata |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | In its full 32-bit or 64-bit mode every instruction is conditional, and any source argument can be barrel-shifted on the way in |
| 22:26 | < catadroid> | Hi hi |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | So a bunch of masking and logical operations end up basically being MOV with switches flipped |
| 22:26 | <&VirusJTG> | and the WAPS that we use are also ARM based |
| 22:26 | <&VirusJTG> | thats 60 of those... |
| 22:27 | <&VirusJTG> | that is a bit crazy |
| 22:28 | <@Tamber> | It's taking over! |
| 22:29 | <&VirusJTG> | or has it TAKEN over >.> |
| 22:29 | <&VirusJTG> | <.< |
| 22:29 | <@Tamber> | Quite |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | Actually |
| 22:29 | <&McMartin> | Even back when they were Acorn |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | Have there ever been places where they didn't end up being dominant in the places they were a noticable presence? |
| 22:30 | <&VirusJTG> | I'm starting to see arm "desktops" |
| 22:31 | <&VirusJTG> | they are more like ARM all in ones attached to monitors and botlted to desks, but I guess you could call that a desk top |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, that's kind of how I've always seen RPis used, personally |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | But maybe I'm just not seeing the more subtle deployments |
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| --- Log closed Thu Oct 27 00:00:07 2016 |