| --- Log opened Tue Apr 26 00:00:42 2016 |
| 00:02 | <&McMartin> | I also totally did not expect boost::optional<std::vector<std::string>> to qualify. |
| 00:04 | <&McMartin> | Looks like libsoup is an HTTP library designed to coexist with GTK. |
| 00:04 | <&McMartin> | It used to involve SOAP. |
| 00:04 | | * iospace gives McMartin a rope |
| 00:05 | | * McMartin sends his heroes against the forces of CORBA Commander |
| 00:05 | <@celticminstrel> | I wasn't actually particularly interested in what libsoup was, just pointed it out because it sounds tasty. :P |
| 00:10 | <&McMartin> | Speaking up updates, I apparently have 600MB worth pending. |
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| 07:44 | < abudhabi> | I need a text editor that can deal with binary content. |
| 07:44 | <&McMartin> | emacs has a hex mode |
| 07:44 | < abudhabi> | The purpose of this is to edit HTTP request dumps. |
| 07:44 | <&McMartin> | I'm not sure if that's what you mean |
| 07:44 | < abudhabi> | Windows? |
| 07:45 | <&McMartin> | Mmm. Most Windows emacs ports are garbage atm |
| 07:45 | <~Vornicus> | http request dumps are not generally binary |
| 07:45 | < abudhabi> | Vornicus: These have MIME content. |
| 07:45 | <~Vornicus> | okay that might be a problem |
| 07:45 | <&McMartin> | That is likely to be base64-encoded such that even hex is a problem |
| 07:45 | <&McMartin> | Anyway |
| 07:45 | < abudhabi> | It totally is. I edited them with a normal text editor, and the binary content got corrupted. |
| 07:45 | <&McMartin> | kk |
| 07:45 | <&McMartin> | Notepad++ should prevent corruption, at least. |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | But it doesn't have a nice hex mode |
| 07:46 | < catadroid> | For reference, what was wrong was that I needed a write barrier and to switch the order of two tests in a conditional to avoid the data races |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | I was asking after hex editors a month back or so and went with ghex on a Linux VM. |
| 07:46 | < abudhabi> | I don't need to edit the binary data, I just need to prepend stuff and edit the text content. |
| 07:46 | < abudhabi> | I just need it to be able to save it as it read it. |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | Notepad++ may have you covered then. |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | catadroid: \o/ |
| 07:47 | <&McMartin> | I'm pretty sure I've done that trick with other file types with it. |
| 07:47 | < catadroid> | Ideally I'd be using std::atomic but I'm not allowed to |
| 07:47 | < catadroid> | Scarily, I may be the person who determines whether we are allowed to |
| 07:47 | <&McMartin> | DOOM |
| 07:48 | <&McMartin> | I'm going to replace a bunch of mechanically generated boilerplate code with a generalized engine and generated tabular data |
| 07:48 | <&McMartin> | And abuse the shit out of all our objects matching std::is_standard_layout |
| 07:48 | < catadroid> | I've already had my lead suggest that I look at the capabilities of our current compiler set and determine which of the language features are sensible for us to use in core code |
| 07:48 | <&McMartin> | It will be glorious and terrifying, and it should drop that module's size by over 90% |
| 07:48 | < catadroid> | \o/ |
| 07:48 | <&McMartin> | You are supremely qualified for that judgement, based just on our casual talk here. |
| 07:49 | <&McMartin> | ... over time, not merely just now~ |
| 07:49 | < catadroid> | I replaced about a thousand lines of copy pasted code with two variadic templates yesterday |
| 07:49 | <&McMartin> | ... definitely a win but I have to ask if that shrank the binary any |
| 07:50 | < catadroid> | Unlikely, I've not merged this code onto a project yet |
| 07:50 | <&McMartin> | I'm pretty sure the thing I'm doing will result in smaller but less safe code and I hope I can mitigate that |
| 07:50 | < catadroid> | (I've been waiting to fix that threading bug in case it was important) |
| 07:50 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 07:50 | <&McMartin> | The solution I have in mind right now makes an alarming amount of use of reinterpret_cast<> |
| 07:50 | <&McMartin> | And by alarming I mean non-zero |
| 07:51 | < catadroid> | Also, the binary size isn't significant when we have 1024x1024 textures and such lying around |
| 07:51 | <&McMartin> | ... a point |
| 07:51 | <&McMartin> | I'm writing a library for use on phones, I have pretty sharp binary limits and we're way, *way* past "desirable" already |
| 07:52 | <&McMartin> | I'm not convinced there's such a thing as "small enough", but there is a point where it's no longer worth it to shrink further |
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| 07:52 | < catadroid> | (although it was up until the end of around the 360/ps3 era) |
| 07:52 | < simon_> | hello. |
| 07:52 | < catadroid> | Sure, but you only get so much time to optimise |
| 07:52 | <&McMartin> | Yep |
| 07:52 | < catadroid> | Hi |
| 07:52 | <&McMartin> | My plan is to do my best and hope it's good enough~ |
| 07:52 | < catadroid> | :) |
| 07:53 | < catadroid> | I have a performance review that |
| 07:53 | < catadroid> | Today* |
| 07:53 | <&McMartin> | But now my plan is to put on some New Age music and use it to put me to sleep |
| 07:53 | < catadroid> | It's only about six months late |
| 07:53 | <&McMartin> | Thinking good thoughts |
| 07:53 | < catadroid> | I always wonder whether they're going to tell me I'm awful and slow and not productive enough |
| 07:54 | <&McMartin> | "Hitting the pipe with the wrench: $5. Knowing where to hit it: $9,995." |
| 07:54 | < catadroid> | Then I need to remember that I'm literally driving the company's tools strategy and I'm actually the c++ guru and the person the technical director calls the de facto owner of our stl implementation |
| 07:54 | < catadroid> | So it can't be that bad |
| 07:55 | <&McMartin> | Anyway, gonna get keyboard face if I don't retreat |
| 07:55 | <&McMartin> | Have a great day :) |
| 07:55 | < catadroid> | And I would likely be a massive benefit to the company even if I didn't write any code |
| 07:55 | < catadroid> | Good night! |
| 07:55 | | * McMartin ker-zzzz, which is like regular zzzz but it involves a lot of rockets |
| 07:55 | < catadroid> | Boom! |
| 07:55 | < catadroid> | As toddlebot would say :3 |
| 07:56 | <&McMartin> | toddlebot knows the score |
| 07:56 | <&McMartin> | Toddlebot should be taught the robot dance |
| 07:57 | < catadroid> | I'm on it :3 |
| 08:04 | <~Vornicus> | "Also, the binary size isn't significant when we have 1024x1024 textures and such lying around" --- I remember when I got my PS1 and it came with a demo disc with 20ish games on it. At some point I realized that the reason they could do this was because the data is expensive in terms of space, not the code |
| 08:08 | < catadroid> | Mhm |
| 08:08 | < catadroid> | Although the code is still significant |
| 08:08 | < catadroid> | Just the size of the data is increasing a lot faster |
| 08:09 | < catadroid> | ...it's also audio's fault more often than you'd think |
| 08:10 | <~Vornicus> | movies and giant images and sounds and -- I mean you're looking at a meg a minute for relatively crappy sound, and something like a meg a *second* for fmv, but a lot of that is done in engine now anyway |
| 08:11 | < catadroid> | Hm? |
| 08:11 | < catadroid> | Oh, right |
| 08:11 | < catadroid> | Depends on the game, heh |
| 08:12 | <~Vornicus> | I don't even have any idea how big a level is any more. |
| 08:14 | <~Vornicus> | or a model, or an animation set, or any of that. |
| 08:14 | < catadroid> | Again, heavily depends on the game |
| 08:15 | < catadroid> | Oddly, I don't really know either |
| 08:15 | < catadroid> | Fortunately, I just need to know how to know and the tech art guys can sort that out themselves |
| 08:15 | <~Vornicus> | Fuckin' Pokemon Red is 1 megabyte |
| 08:16 | < catadroid> | I wonder how big E:D is |
| 08:16 | <~Vornicus> | You're burning that on a single bump map. |
| 08:17 | < catadroid> | Oh sure |
| 08:17 | <~Vornicus> | (maybe not, there's those compressed-for-graphics-cards formats nowadays) |
| 08:17 | < catadroid> | No, we still are :p |
| 08:17 | <~Vornicus> | heh |
| 08:17 | < catadroid> | Compression isn't that good |
| 08:18 | | * catadroid considers taking a shower and going to work |
| 08:18 | <~Vornicus> | read somewhere you get like 1/4 the size, 4 bytes for 16px, for monochrome. |
| 08:18 | < catadroid> | If my review ends up with be being fired |
| 08:18 | < catadroid> | Please hug me |
| 08:18 | | * Vornicus hugs catadroid anyway |
| 08:19 | | * catadroid hugs |
| 08:19 | < catadroid> | I don't rationally think I will |
| 08:19 | < catadroid> | But I'm terrified |
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| 08:39 | < simon_> | I've got this enum, ScraperType { Omit, Dynamic, Scrape } indicating whether a website should be scraped or not. Omit = never. Dynamic = depends on other factors. Scrape = Always. (Note to self: Hey, those names are so much better.) |
| 08:39 | < simon_> | now I'm writing some predicate functions that relate to these, and I'm wondering if I should write them in a whitelisting or in a blacklisting fashion |
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| 08:40 | <~Vornicus> | Whitelisting I'd say |
| 08:40 | <~Vornicus> | if (should_i_scrape == Scrape || should_i_scrape == Dynamic && other_factors) { ... do scraping ... } |
| 08:41 | < simon_> | basically: ShouldHaveScraper = (ScraperType == Always || (ScraperType == Dynamic && (IsPre || IsWeb)) |
| 08:41 | < simon_> | haha |
| 08:41 | < simon_> | yes. |
| 08:41 | < simon_> | ok, great. |
| 08:41 | <~Vornicus> | you want whichever one requires action to be the one you check for positively. |
| 08:42 | < simon_> | and the other one is, ShouldHardcodeUris = (ScraperType == Always || ScraperType == Dynamic) (rather than ScraperType != Omit) |
| 08:42 | < simon_> | I just don't want any sudden behaviour in case I extend the enum and forget about this dependency. |
| 08:42 | < simon_> | I don't know if I'll extend it in a DefinitelyDontDoAnything or a DoABunchofMoreStuff way. |
| 08:42 | < simon_> | so whitelisting. great. |
| 08:43 | < simon_> | thanks, Vornicus. |
| 08:44 | <~Vornicus> | If your IDE doesn't do it for you, you can annotate with the fact that you check against the enum via comments, so you can check every condition as you add more. |
| 08:45 | < abudhabi> | Hm. It still doesn't work with Notepad++. |
| 08:45 | < abudhabi> | I'm not sure if the files aren't corrupted to begin with. |
| 08:46 | <~Vornicus> | Possible. |
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| 08:46 | <~Vornicus> | notepad++ and most real text editors are polite: they won't change existing text without you explicitly telling it to. |
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| 15:38 | < catadroid> | Review thing was fine |
| 15:38 | < catadroid> | Apparently I'm very good at my job |
| 15:41 | <@TheWatcher> | It's good they recognise it; are they going to give you a pay rise?~ |
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| 15:54 | < catadroid> | Pay reviews are a separate thing, heh |
| 15:54 | < catadroid> | They already pay me pretty well for the company |
| 15:54 | < catadroid> | So far as I can tell |
| 17:08 | < Azash> | Today's fine bit of JavaScript: ['10','10','10','10','10'].map(parseInt) |
| 17:08 | < Azash> | Try evaluating that |
| 17:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | If that doesn't result in [10 10 10 10 10] I will be unpleasantly surprised. |
| 17:18 | < Azash> | It doesn't |
| 17:18 | < Azash> | Because JS map |
| 17:18 | < Azash> | Unlike pretty much every other map function |
| 17:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | WHAT THE HELL |
| 17:18 | < Azash> | Also passes the index as second parameter |
| 17:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | IS THIS |
| 17:19 | < Azash> | And parseInt takes base as optional second argument |
| 17:19 | < Azash> | So it calls with ('10', 0), ('10', 1), so forth |
| 17:19 | < Azash> | Thus returning you the entirely intuitive, principle-of-least-surprise-conformant [10, NaN, 2, 3, 4] |
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| 17:49 | < catadroid> | But |
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| 17:52 | <~Vornicus> | But, butt? |
| 17:57 | < catalyst> | Sure thing |
| 18:05 | | * Vornicus drags catalyst to the discotheque for the purpose of shaking butt. |
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| 18:45 | <&McMartin> | "It is a grievous error for the application to try to use a prepared statement after it has been finalized." |
| 18:46 | <&McMartin> | 09:19 < Azash> Thus returning you the entirely intuitive, principle-of-least-surprise-conformant [10, NaN, 2, 3, 4] |
| 18:46 | <&McMartin> | This actually is conformant to the principle of least surprise in the same way strlen(<some UTF-16 string>) returning 0 is. |
| 18:46 | <&McMartin> | er, sorry |
| 18:46 | <&McMartin> | returning 1 |
| 19:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | How do you mean? |
| 20:18 | <@ErikMesoy> | It is one string long? |
| 20:21 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: It's behaving according to its spec |
| 20:21 | <&McMartin> | The fact that you have fed it something that would be consistent with a different spec that has has a similar or identical name is not entirely its fault. |
| 20:21 | < Azash> | ErikMesoy: UTF-16 for the most common characters starts with an empty byte which would confuse strlen |
| 20:22 | <&McMartin> | And it almost certainly returns 1 because the high byte of your little-endian UTF16 string was almost certainly 0. |
| 20:22 | <&McMartin> | And it's low-byte first on basically all chips these days, so, 1. |
| 20:22 | < Azash> | And the principle of least surprise applies to spec conformance to expectation, not program/code conformance to spec |
| 20:22 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 20:22 | <&McMartin> | Interpreting that as "Nothing should ever look different from anything I ever learned" is handy when beating on acceptable targets but it's a dangerous trap~ |
| 20:23 | <&McMartin> | It turns out people learn different things first |
| 20:23 | < Azash> | Entirely compartmentalizing expectations for different tech leads to a lot of learning waste too though |
| 20:25 | <&McMartin> | Yes |
| 20:25 | <&McMartin> | It's them, hrm |
| 20:26 | <&McMartin> | The visceral reaction that I try to push against |
| 20:26 | <&McMartin> | A lot of people don't seem to realize that "sane" is defined as "that thing I already know how to do" |
| 20:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | My fundamental objection here is that there is, and was when the spec was written, a *lot* of prior art for map which does not follow this convention |
| 20:34 | <&McMartin> | Yes, this function should be called mapi |
| 20:35 | <&McMartin> | OTOH, most languages also say "map must take a one-argument function" so passing it parseint would produce a compile error. |
| 20:35 | <&McMartin> | ... well |
| 20:35 | <&McMartin> | "A function with a number of arguments equal to the number of sequences passed in" |
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| 20:35 | <~Vornicus> | paresint is technically also a one-argument function |
| 20:36 | <&McMartin> | JS's notion of arity is a little cloudy, IMO |
| 20:37 | <~Vornicus> | I mean even if I were to strictly define it elsewhere, it's got a one-argument signature and a two-argument signature |
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| 22:54 | < [R]> | <McMartin> OTOH, most languages also say "map must take a one-argument function" so passing it parseint would produce a compile error. <-- unfortunately JS makes this nigh-impossible, since function() { return arguments[14] } is totally valid. |
| 22:55 | <&McMartin> | R: I get to that several lines later! |
| 22:58 | < [R]> | I do not know of a word "arity" and was unsure what you meant by it. |
| 22:58 | <&McMartin> | Aha. |
| 22:58 | <&McMartin> | It's the number of elements in a tuple. |
| 22:58 | <&McMartin> | Or the number of arguments in a function, etc |
| 22:59 | < [R]> | IE the size of a set? |
| 23:03 | <&McMartin> | Maybe. Lots of CS terms get borrowed from math in inconsistent ways. |
| 23:04 | <@ErikMesoy> | [R]: More like the expectation/requirement of the size of a set, I'd say. |
| 23:05 | <&McMartin> | I don't see it with lists, though |
| 23:05 | <&McMartin> | Functions, tuples |
| 23:08 | <@ErikMesoy> | McMartin: CS arity is mostly 1 less than math arity, as math arity's count of domains tends to include the function's return value. |
| 23:12 | <&McMartin> | Makes sense |
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| --- Log closed Wed Apr 27 00:00:57 2016 |