| --- Log opened Mon Sep 14 00:00:53 2015 |
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| 00:24 | <~Vornicus> | hooray |
| 00:30 | < Reiv_> | hooray? |
| 00:42 | <~Vornicus> | hooray, the method I gave to jerith worked |
| 00:48 | < Reiv_> | hooray indeed! |
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| 02:47 | <@celticminstrel> | Anyone know what would be the Windows equivalent of "which xyz"? |
| 02:49 | < Turaiel> | uhhh |
| 02:49 | < Turaiel> | I knew this at one point |
| 02:49 | < Turaiel> | where perhaps? |
| 02:49 | < Turaiel> | Yes, where. |
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| 04:15 | <@celticminstrel> | Turaiel: Thanks! |
| 04:16 | < Turaiel> | No prob |
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| 05:01 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
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| 05:27 | | mac is now known as macdjord|slep |
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| 06:33 | | * macdjord|slep compresses a large number of highly redundant files, gets a 2257:1 compression ratio |
| 06:35 | <~Vornicus> | that is possibly the most highly redundant I've ever met |
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| 06:36 | <@macdjord|slep> | To be fair - I'm pretty sure you could have gotten 100:1 or better just by storing each file as a diff against its predicessor. |
| 06:38 | <@macdjord|slep> | Still. &-zip at max setting is impressive. |
| 06:38 | <@macdjord|slep> | Er, 7-zip. |
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| 17:47 | | * Derakon grumbles at work. |
| 17:47 | <&Derakon> | The problem with having a long-running branch is that people make patches against the base branch and you have to manually merge them in. |
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| 19:29 | <@celticminstrel> | I can't figure out how my destructor has an access violation... |
| 19:32 | <@celticminstrel> | It occurs after the destructor exits... |
| 19:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: are you looking at the core, or looking at in the debugger? |
| 19:35 | <@celticminstrel> | Debugger. MSVC. |
| 19:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | If the former, try running it in the debugger and catching it when it happens. |
| 19:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 19:35 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe I could try reproducing on Mac as well though... |
| 19:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | So, if it happens after the dtor exits, and you have the stack trace proving it, where does "the dtor has an access violation" come from? |
| 19:36 | <&McMartin> | This can often man misuse of things like shared_ptr |
| 19:36 | <&McMartin> | With a double-free |
| 19:37 | <@celticminstrel> | I thought of that, but I don't see any shared_ptrs in this class. |
| 19:37 | <@celticminstrel> | TF: The debugger breaks at the closing brace of the destructor. |
| 19:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 19:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, that sounds like something blowing up when it gets destroyed on leaving scope. |
| 20:13 | <@celticminstrel> | Doesn't happen on OSX. :/ |
| 20:20 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, I'm still not sure why it happens, but it was a side-effect of another bug, and fixing that bug seems to prevent this one from occurring anymore. I hope it doesn't resurface later. |
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| 21:30 | | * Derakon eyes this code, moans in despair. |
| 21:30 | <&Derakon> | Model, view, and control all mixed together in one gigantic tangled mess. |
| 21:30 | <&Derakon> | I can't even separate out minor functionality without tracing massive amounts of state through to where it's calculated in other parts of the class. |
| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | I have yet to see two frameworks decide the same bit is the "Controller" >_> |
| 21:32 | <&Derakon> | TBH separating model and view is the critical part. |
| 21:33 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 21:34 | | * McMartin has occasionally spent hours of argumentation with extremely angry people other whether or not the logic that controls whether or not a control is enabled due to logical consistency of the data within is part of 'Model' or 'View', gets tired just thinking about it |
| 21:34 | <&Derakon> | Heh. |
| 21:34 | <&Derakon> | Especially when the data explicitly contains items that exist to indicate whether or not a given GUI widget is enabled. |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | Yessss. |
| 21:36 | | * McMartin tends to consider having data items like that to be tangling the model and view. This is either fundamentalist nutjobbery or unforgivable sloppiness depending on exactly which angry person he is arguing with. |
| 21:36 | <&McMartin> | "In which instance variable did I just punch you", etc. |
| 21:37 | <&Derakon> | Hm, it occurs to me I may have better luck treating this object as a model and separating out the view components, instead of the other way around. |
| 21:56 | | * Derakon sighs at coworkers commit, which changed his "iff" in a docstring to "if". |
| 21:57 | <&Derakon> | Also he added @return tags for simple getter functions, and the descriptions for those tags just parrot what the rest of the docstring says. |
| 22:04 | | * [R] never understood why MVC is such a huge fad. |
| 22:06 | < catalyst> | it give the illusion of having control |
| 22:07 | < catalyst> | gives |
| 22:07 | <&Derakon> | R: like I said, it's mostly critical to separate the view from the model. |
| 22:07 | <&Derakon> | Because when view and model are tightly intertwined, you can't do shit to the program except through its GUI. |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | ^++ |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | There are other, equivalent disciplines |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | But if you want something that can be maintained or extended, you've gotta have one of them. |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | (The traditional UNIX approach is to present the 'model' as a library linked against by both GUI and CLI programs. Think libpurple or most of imagemagick.) |
| 22:10 | < [R]> | Right. Normal sanity stuff. Just the third wheel seems pointless. |
| 22:11 | <&Derakon> | It's more relevant for webapps, which tend to be backed by a database. |
| 22:11 | <&McMartin> | When people split out "Controller" they usually do mean *something* |
| 22:11 | <&Derakon> | You don't as a rule put transformative logic into databases. |
| 22:11 | <&McMartin> | I have noticed it is never the same thing |
| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | (When I was first taught MVC, they intended "Controller" to be what I would have called the "event loop." This is not the same thing as what, say, iOS calls a ViewController.) |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | I would propose a cynical definition of "assuming you are using a system where GUI elements do not exist in a total vaccuum - which is, to be fair, a pretty safe assumption - the Controller is the part that lets the GUI actually work." |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | 12:13 <@celticminstrel> Doesn't happen on OSX. :/ |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | Belated: Microsoft's heap allocator is designed to fail fast in debug modes. |
| 22:14 | <&McMartin> | It uses different patterns of garbage for "unallocated ever", "freshly allocated", and "was allocated but is now freed" |
| 22:14 | <&McMartin> | (I forget the first, but the latter two are I think either CCCCCCCC and DDDDDDDDD or the other way around) |
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| 23:18 | | * Derakon makes a first attempt at compiling after the refactor, has only 55 compilation erroros. |
| 23:18 | <&Derakon> | Er, errors. |
| 23:18 | <&Derakon> | Surely some of these are masking others, though. |
| 23:19 | <&McMartin> | Maybe some of them have common sources though. I could be a wash! |
| 23:19 | <&McMartin> | *It |
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| --- Log closed Tue Sep 15 00:00:09 2015 |