| --- Log opened Wed Jul 22 00:00:16 2015 |
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| 07:55 | < Erik> | How separable is C# (supposed to be) from Visual Studio? I've been assigned to help a coworker who has apparently had C# code break down because the libraries don't work without Visual Studio, and I am trying to get a handle on the problem and wondering WTF is going on here. |
| 07:57 | <&McMartin> | In theory, "as seperable as Java is from IntelliJ" |
| 07:58 | <&McMartin> | In practice, if you are depending on features from a specific version of the .NET runtime, you'll need to be sure that you're using an appropriate version, etc. |
| 07:58 | <&McMartin> | "The libraries don't work without Visual Studio" to me says that the target machine doesn't have the appropriate version of the .NET runtime installed. Those should be available as redistributable packages from MSDN's download section or as part of the Visual Studio install. |
| 08:00 | < Erik> | I have the initial impression that coworker did some semi-automatic using and linking and package-getting in VS, and now the code that says "using Foobar" has been transported to another machine without Foobar being brought along. |
| 08:00 | <&McMartin> | Via NuGet plugins or w/e? |
| 08:00 | <&McMartin> | Those should be some kind of .DLL that you can bring along |
| 08:01 | <&McMartin> | (I've only dealt with this stuff in passing; my specialty is C++ stuff, which is similar but has some different sets of spiders.) |
| 08:02 | < Erik> | I dunno, I have not used either Visual Studio or C# before, I'm just called in here because I'm the Old Man on duty (everyone with more experience is out of office) |
| 08:03 | <&McMartin> | Fair enough, and this is often a good place for that |
| 08:03 | <&McMartin> | The only tip I can give here is "C# libraries that aren't part of your .exe end up living as .dll files somewhere. If you can get the missing .dll files over where the deployment is, it should work." |
| 08:04 | <&McMartin> | For stuff like "using System" there is a stock installer from MS for putting that down, but check your versions to make sure they match, and it would not surprise me if they have to match *exactly* |
| 08:06 | < Erik> | Right. Okay, I have it narrowed down to specific problem now. "using System.IO" works fine on the transported code, probably because System.IO is central obvious module always available. "using System.Xml" is failing, probably because System.Xml is thing that needs to be installed/imported/whatever and has not been done so on the new machine. |
| 08:06 | < Erik> | This seems to match your description of needing to put in specific files and installations and whatnot. |
| 08:06 | < Erik> | There are more spiders, but this one at least looks soluble. |
| 08:08 | <&McMartin> | Well, good luck |
| 08:16 | < Erik> | mumble mumble mumble sorcerer's apprentice all over the place |
| 08:23 | < catadroid> | mumble mumble murmur |
| 08:27 | < Erik> | I think I may want the dll advertised here: http://www.dllme.com/dll/files/system_xml_dll.html But is this a safe site? If not, what sort of place would you suggest I go to get such dlls? |
| 08:28 | <&McMartin> | It should be on the machine with MSVS installed, or possibly available from MS itself; search for ".NET Runtime Download" |
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| 08:30 | < Erik> | DEPENDENCY HELL. |
| 08:32 | <&McMartin> | System.Xml.dll should really still be part of the basics. |
| 08:32 | <&McMartin> | You're "supposed" to ship with it if you ship with it. |
| 08:32 | <&McMartin> | Er, if you depend on it |
| 08:33 | < Erik> | I mentioned transported code above. As in, code was written with dependency on System.Xml on Machine A, and was copied to Machine B, and does not work on Machine B. |
| 08:33 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 08:33 | < Erik> | So it probably did ship to Machine A, which is physically elsewhere now. |
| 08:33 | <&McMartin> | What I'm saying is "there's a thing you install that is not unlike the Java runtime that lets you run C# EXEs built with that" |
| 08:33 | <&McMartin> | I'm actually surprised that System.IO is loading but System.Xml is not. |
| 08:34 | <&McMartin> | They are different DLLs, but whatever installed one ought to have installed the other too. |
| 08:34 | < Erik> | ...Especially in light of my coworker saying that no DLL for System.IO exists on Machine B here where we are working. |
| 08:34 | < Erik> | I think something is wrong with this statement, but I am politely not contradicting it until I understand more just how all this magic works |
| 08:35 | <&McMartin> | Right. This is the C# equivalent of libc.so or msvcrt.dll that you're running afoul of here |
| 08:35 | <&McMartin> | Like, they didn't download anything special to get access to System.Xml, it's part of the core language |
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| 10:10 | < Erik> | Have beaten back spiders, reached completely new and different issue: coworker had been given incomplete pseudocode skeleton in several places, didn't understand it, hadn't filled it out. |
| 10:11 | < Erik> | Program has e.g. a method with a loop over data that does nothing, and after the loop a "return Count". It's obvious that loop is supposed to do something, but it doesn't, and Count is never incremented or operated on at all. |
| 10:12 | < Erik> | Due to program very rapidly doing nothing, coworker has been sprinkling Wait and WaitOnKeypress statements to make the command line stay open in order to see debug output of it doing nothing. |
| 10:14 | | * Erik now tries to obtain secondhand description from coworker of what these bits were supposed to do. |
| 10:48 | | * TheWatcher eyes this code, ...s |
| 10:48 | <@TheWatcher> | What the fuck was I doing here? |
| 10:49 | < Erik> | Job security. |
| 10:57 | <@TheWatcher> | No, just stupidity I think. |
| 11:00 | <@Wizard> | http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/124650273863/when-your-sunday-oncall-outa ge-turns-into-their |
| 11:06 | < abudhabi> | Hm. jQuery question: From onclick="..." how do I refer to the element that has the onclick attribute? |
| 11:07 | < abudhabi> | $(this)? |
| 11:09 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah |
| 11:10 | <@TheWatcher> | Well. If you're going to be using jquery functions on it, yes - if you're just using basic javascript or simple DOM attributes, you can use `this` without the $() |
| 11:13 | <@Wizard> | https://github.com/p8952/bocker/blob/master/bocker |
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| 13:40 | < abudhabi> | Hm. How do I monitor how much data is send up and down on a Mac? |
| 13:40 | < abudhabi> | I need to determine typical bandwidth usage. |
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| 18:52 | <&jeroud> | abudhabi: Not exactly what you're looking for, but I think Little Snitch can do that. |
| 18:53 | < abudhabi> | I need to determine if a certain data plan will be sufficient for our needs, or if we need to buy something more expensive. |
| 18:53 | <&jeroud> | It's an application level firewall that I find incredibly useful and it shows realtime charts of what's using how much and what it's connecting to. |
| 18:54 | <&jeroud> | In newer OSX versions, the system monitor thing whose name I can't remember may be able to tell you. |
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| 20:24 | <&McMartin> | Activity Monitor? |
| 20:30 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. |
| 20:31 | <@gnolam> | What's the preferred installer for Windows programs these days? |
| 20:31 | <&McMartin> | Are you asking about installer generators or package-management type things? |
| 20:32 | <&McMartin> | If the latter, there isn't a preferred one |
| 20:32 | <@gnolam> | Installer generators. |
| 20:32 | <&McMartin> | If the former, there are three |
| 20:32 | <&McMartin> | I personally prefer NSIS because it's the easiest to script and extend, but it's sharchivey. |
| 20:33 | <&McMartin> | People still use MSI and if you're targeting large enterprises it has some nice features, and it's more declarative, but it's a fucking nightmare even before you get into the fact that even if you use the best tools for it it's miles of XML full of hand-generated UUIDs |
| 20:33 | <&McMartin> | And the InnoSetup still isn't dead, but it's clearly a distant third in popularity while still being viable. |
| 20:33 | <&McMartin> | (If you do have to use MSI, the best tools for working with it are the WIX tools.) |
| 20:34 | <@gnolam> | ... sharchivey? |
| 20:34 | <&McMartin> | NSIS is a super-gross scripting language that has some include files tha tmake it slightly less gross |
| 20:35 | < ToxicFrog> | It "combines the best features of assembly and PHP", if I remember their documentation from lo these many years ago correctly. |
| 20:35 | <&McMartin> | But at the end of the day it is executing a script that says "deploy file X to directory Y, write registry key A to location B, etc." |
| 20:35 | <&McMartin> | The advantage of this is that if you can express what you want to do you can actually do it without writing a custom DLL whcih ties into their memory management and deals with all that garbage, and it just works |
| 20:36 | <&McMartin> | There seems to be this general perception that all you need to do to install a program is unzip some files in a place you ask the user about, and this is never true beyond the most trivial cases |
| 20:36 | <&McMartin> | If you have one of those trivial cases, the preferred installation mechanism is a .zip file. |
| 20:37 | <&McMartin> | NSIS has the largest ecology around it for consumer end-user features (partial or network installs, upgrades, preserve save games on uninstall, etc.) |
| 20:38 | <@gnolam> | I'll go with NSIS then. |
| 20:38 | <@gnolam> | Thanks! |
| 20:38 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 20:38 | <&McMartin> | You Were Warned |
| 20:38 | <&McMartin> | But |
| 20:39 | <&McMartin> | Despite all the horrible things about it (TF isn't lying about the Assembly/PHP mashup quote) I've considered it the best of breed in the space for ten years v_v |
| 20:39 | <&McMartin> | By comical margins |
| 20:39 | <&McMartin> | If you really mostly just need a basic workflow that puts some files and registry keys in, there are also automatic generators where you drag the files into a tree and it writes the script for you |
| 20:40 | <&McMartin> | If you need to do actually tricky logic mid-script for whatever reason, look into LogicLib, but you won't need that immediately most likely |
| 20:43 | <@celticminstrel> | Control flow in NSIS is primarily variations on GOTO. |
| 20:45 | <&McMartin> | Right. LogicLib gives you full block structure and boolean algebra. |
| 20:45 | <&McMartin> | And it's shipped with it for at least five years but they still haven't documented it as of last year. |
| 20:45 | < ToxicFrog> | In other news, UI components are coming along nicely: http://i.imgur.com/QegDWya.png |
| 20:45 | <&McMartin> | (I haven't checked in awhile) |
| 20:50 | <@gnolam> | Besides putting files in the right places and writing some registry keys, the only "complicated" bits are checking if certain specific directories exist and registering a few DLLs, but Professor Google says that's something NSIS can handle, so. |
| 20:50 | <&McMartin> | Yep |
| 20:50 | <&McMartin> | And the directory-checks are the kind of thing where you just do the damn GOTO in the base instructions and don't bother with logiclib |
| 20:51 | <&McMartin> | I forget how to do Proper DLL Registration but if it can't do it at core it can totally do it with a stock plugin |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jul 23 00:00:31 2015 |