| --- Log opened Sun May 31 00:00:31 2015 |
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| 02:58 | < ToxicFrog> | Jesus christ, why is it so hard to center-align something in HTML? |
| 02:59 | <&Derakon> | That sounds like the kind of question where if I asked it on StackOverflow I'd get a lot of answers about how I don't really understand what I want and I actually need to do this super-complicated thing to get what should be a simple result. |
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| 03:00 | < ToxicFrog> | Derakon: strip out the "don't understand what you want" and ding ding ding we have a winner |
| 03:00 | < ToxicFrog> | Apparently this is super complicated and also requires you to specify the width of your element in px up front |
| 03:01 | < Turaiel> | Derakon: sounds like freenode |
| 03:01 | < ToxicFrog> | Unless you're targeting only browsers that support CSS3, in which case you don't need to know the width ahead of time but you do need ~20 lines of incomprehensible garbage |
| 03:02 | < ToxicFrog> | I miss <center> |
| 03:02 | <@Namegduf> | Huh. text-align: center doesn't work? |
| 03:02 | < Turaiel> | They do the same thing with inline elements |
| 03:03 | <@Namegduf> | So it deals only with inline, not block. |
| 03:03 | <@Namegduf> | Eeesh. |
| 03:03 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: I want to center the entire element, not lines of text within it |
| 03:03 | < Turaiel> | Block elements are not text :P |
| 03:03 | <@Namegduf> | It can do entire elements, but only entire elements that are inline. |
| 03:03 | < Turaiel> | Or they're not supposed to be |
| 03:03 | <@Namegduf> | Neither are images. |
| 03:03 | <@Namegduf> | And it works fine on them. |
| 03:03 | < ToxicFrog> | Basically I have two <pre> elements of different widths, and I want both of them centered with respect to the page, on top of each other |
| 03:03 | < ToxicFrog> | And originally this would be <center><pre><pre></center> |
| 03:04 | < ToxicFrog> | And then it was <div align="center"><pre></div><div><pre></div> |
| 03:04 | < ToxicFrog> | And now apparently neither of those are allowed anymore and instead it's *vomits CSS everywhere* |
| 03:04 | < Turaiel> | That's because styling has no place in markup |
| 03:05 | <@Namegduf> | I'm surprised text-align: center doesn't wokr. |
| 03:05 | < Turaiel> | Markup is meant to define content only |
| 03:05 | < ToxicFrog> | It also doesn't help that apparently the default width of a block element is "as much width as my parent will let me have" rather than "the minimum amount of width needed to display my contents" |
| 03:05 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: which element do I put that on?! |
| 03:05 | <@Namegduf> | text-align center works fine for images and a range of other elements, not just text, despite the name. |
| 03:05 | <@Namegduf> | It's CSS. |
| 03:05 | < ToxicFrog> | Right, but which element do I attach the style to? |
| 03:05 | <@Namegduf> | I'd put it on anything outside the <pre> elements. |
| 03:05 | < Turaiel> | If it doesn't work, it would if the pre tags were display:inline I think |
| 03:05 | < ToxicFrog> | The <pre>? Wrap it in a div and put it on that? |
| 03:05 | < Turaiel> | Or maybe even inline-block |
| 03:05 | <@Namegduf> | Yeah, sure. |
| 03:06 | < Turaiel> | Yeah, it has to be on the parent element |
| 03:06 | <@Namegduf> | inline or inline-block should make it apply to the pre elements if it doesn't already. |
| 03:06 | < Turaiel> | text-align applies to inline children of the element it is applied to IIRC |
| 03:06 | <@Namegduf> | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/text-align |
| 03:07 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: no, I just tried it and that centers each line of text individually |
| 03:07 | <@Namegduf> | This also notes "The standard-compatible way to center a block itself without centering its inline content is setting the left and right margin to auto" |
| 03:07 | < ToxicFrog> | Rather than the entire <pre> element as a block |
| 03:07 | < ToxicFrog> | I tried that! |
| 03:07 | <@Namegduf> | Oh, you're going to get that as well. |
| 03:07 | < Turaiel> | Yes, auto side margin |
| 03:07 | < ToxicFrog> | It doesn't work because the element fills the entire width of the page, so the margins are always 0, even though the content within the block is left justified! |
| 03:07 | < Turaiel> | But that only works with predefined width |
| 03:07 | <@Namegduf> | It isn't meaningful to ask to centre something whose width is 100%. |
| 03:08 | < ToxicFrog> | So you have to hard-code the width, which is awful and doesn't work for my use case anyways |
| 03:08 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: YES, I KNOW. |
| 03:08 | <@Namegduf> | So what *do* you want to do? |
| 03:08 | < ToxicFrog> | <ToxicFrog> It also doesn't help that apparently the default width of a block element is "as much width as my parent will let me have" rather than "the minimum amount of width needed to display my contents" |
| 03:08 | < Turaiel> | ToxicFrog: why don't you want a width defined? |
| 03:08 | <@Namegduf> | You're displaying text. |
| 03:08 | < Turaiel> | Like, elements the full width of the page are already centered |
| 03:08 | < Turaiel> | So Indont know what you're trying to do |
| 03:08 | <@Namegduf> | Okay, I think I get it. |
| 03:08 | < ToxicFrog> | Turaiel: because the width depends on the actual content to be displayed, which depends on config file input, and I don't want to write python code to calculate the display width in pixels of a line of text. |
| 03:09 | <&Derakon> | He wants the block to take up the minimum amount of space needed to contain its text, and then for the block to be centered. |
| 03:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Especially since the answer also depends on what browser the user is using and what their font settings are! |
| 03:09 | <@Namegduf> | Unlike all other examples of text in HTML, <pre> elements are preformatted. |
| 03:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Derakon: yes. That exactly. |
| 03:09 | <@Namegduf> | Being as that's their thing. |
| 03:09 | <@Namegduf> | So they have a "minimum required text width". |
| 03:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: yes, I know, that's the whole point of using them |
| 03:09 | < Turaiel> | Um |
| 03:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Right |
| 03:09 | < ToxicFrog> | I want the <pre> element to be that width |
| 03:09 | < ToxicFrog> | And centered |
| 03:09 | <@Namegduf> | Unlike any other text element, where the minimum is absurdly small. |
| 03:09 | < Turaiel> | Won't that work if you make them inline? |
| 03:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Rather than being the same width as the browser window no matter how much text it actually contains |
| 03:10 | <@Namegduf> | The problem is that there's no special case HTML layout rules *just* for the pre element. |
| 03:10 | < Turaiel> | I don't have a computer with which to test things |
| 03:10 | <@Namegduf> | To let you do that. |
| 03:10 | <@Namegduf> | But, hm. An inline block might do what you want. |
| 03:10 | <@Namegduf> | If you turn the pre elements into inline blocks |
| 03:10 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: right, but there are layout rules for block elements in general that one would think I could use here, either directly on the <pre> or on a <div> wrapping it, right? |
| 03:10 | < Turaiel> | Try setting it to inline-block and auto side margins |
| 03:10 | <@Namegduf> | Make them left-align their contents |
| 03:10 | < ToxicFrog> | This isn't a completely insane belief? |
| 03:10 | <@Namegduf> | And then text-align center them |
| 03:11 | <@Namegduf> | No. |
| 03:11 | <@Namegduf> | Your problem is that the pre is the wrong width. |
| 03:11 | <@Namegduf> | There is no layout rule applied outside hte pre which is going to make that problem go away. |
| 03:11 | < Turaiel> | Undesired width* |
| 03:11 | <@Namegduf> | I *think* inline-block might fix that. |
| 03:11 | < ToxicFrog> | Similarly, the "fills entire width of window" issue isn't something that happens in general, an <img> tag reliably occupies the width of its actual content for example |
| 03:11 | <@Namegduf> | That's because an img element is not a block element. |
| 03:11 | <@Namegduf> | It's an inline element. |
| 03:11 | < Turaiel> | ^ |
| 03:11 | <@Namegduf> | Which is why I'm saying repeatedly to see what happens if you turn your pre element into an inline element. |
| 03:12 | < Turaiel> | Block elements fill the width |
| 03:12 | < ToxicFrog> | How do I do that? |
| 03:12 | < Turaiel> | Display: inline-block |
| 03:12 | < Turaiel> | On the pre |
| 03:12 | < ToxicFrog> | Thank you. |
| 03:12 | < Turaiel> | Lowercase |
| 03:12 | < Turaiel> | That was autocorrected |
| 03:12 | < Turaiel> | For future reference, that gives you inline behavior with be |
| 03:12 | < Turaiel> | With the benefit of margins and sizes being set table |
| 03:13 | < Turaiel> | Settable |
| 03:13 | < ToxicFrog> | afk,baby |
| 03:13 | < Turaiel> | Very nice at times |
| 03:14 | < ToxicFrog> | And then I wrap that in something with text-align:center? |
| 03:14 | <@Namegduf> | I think you could try the auto margins thing. |
| 03:14 | < Turaiel> | Nope |
| 03:14 | < Turaiel> | Set the pre to margin: auto; |
| 03:14 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: I did, it doesn't work |
| 03:14 | < Turaiel> | Which will center the element |
| 03:15 | < ToxicFrog> | No it doesn't |
| 03:15 | <@Namegduf> | Can you see what width the pre has/ |
| 03:15 | <@Namegduf> | Using an inspector on the page? |
| 03:15 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: once I'm back at the computer |
| 03:15 | <@Namegduf> | And see if the inline thing did change its width? |
| 03:15 | <@Namegduf> | Okay. |
| 03:18 | <@Namegduf> | https://jsfiddle.net/thirtydot/rjY7F/ |
| 03:18 | <@Namegduf> | I did some googling. |
| 03:19 | <@Namegduf> | It looks like the text-align center will work, with a text-align left to stop it doing things on a per-line basis. |
| 03:19 | <@celticminstrel> | ToxicFrog: What about text-align:centre on parent, then text-align:left on pre? |
| 03:19 | <@celticminstrel> | ...heh, ninja'd. |
| 03:20 | < Turaiel> | Did you test it with pre elements? |
| 03:20 | <@Namegduf> | Yep. |
| 03:20 | <@Namegduf> | Just turned the div into one. |
| 03:21 | < Turaiel> | Excellent |
| 03:21 | <@Namegduf> | I totally agree that HTML/CSS is an absurd and insane layout system. |
| 03:21 | <@Namegduf> | I don't have a good solution for what it does, but I know it's a bad one. |
| 03:22 | <@Namegduf> | The various layout languages developed for app UIs more recently would be nicer. |
| 03:23 | < Turaiel> | It's slowly getting better |
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| 03:23 | < Turaiel> | CSS is definitely a challenge unless you totally understand it, and often even then |
| 03:24 | <&Derakon> | The layout systems for GUI programming are better than CSS, but in my experience they're still full of spiders. |
| 03:25 | < Turaiel> | Except that game devs and the like are moving to CSS/HTML UIs |
| 03:26 | <@Namegduf> | You can't use standard GUI toolkits in games either. |
| 03:27 | <@Namegduf> | Easily. |
| 03:27 | <@Namegduf> | So it's not like they're moving from XAML or Qt to HTML/CSS. |
| 03:27 | < Turaiel> | Mm. |
| 03:27 | <@Namegduf> | It's more that they're moving to HTML/CSS from flash or internal hackery. |
| 03:27 | < Turaiel> | Now if only Win32 would improve |
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| 03:28 | < Turaiel> | So there's some decent native UI programming in Windows |
| 03:28 | <@Namegduf> | Well, Win32 is no good inside DirectX anyway. |
| 03:28 | < Turaiel> | Because while XAML is nice, it provides .NET controls instead of native ones |
| 03:28 | < Turaiel> | I mean in general |
| 03:29 | <@Namegduf> | Ah. |
| 03:30 | < Turaiel> | I haven't tried Qr |
| 03:30 | < Turaiel> | Qt* |
| 03:30 | < Turaiel> | Swing/AWT are awful for sure |
| 03:31 | <@celticminstrel> | I recall Swing being rather good. |
| 03:31 | <@celticminstrel> | Though, it's still lacking something, probably... |
| 03:31 | < Turaiel> | Lacking a lot :P |
| 03:32 | <&Derakon> | Swing doesn't do layout. |
| 03:32 | <&Derakon> | You use a layout manager within Swing to do layout. |
| 03:32 | <&Derakon> | We mostly use MigLayout at work, and it's decent 95% of the time and filled with spiders for the other 5%. |
| 03:32 | <&Derakon> | Which is a better ratio than anything else I've used~ |
| 03:48 | < ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel, Namegduf: t-a:left and display:i-b wrapped in a div with t-a:center did indeed work, thank you |
| 03:48 | < ToxicFrog> | And yeah, I never thought I'd be working with a technology that makes me pine for the sensible, clearly documented, and useful layout APIs of GTK+ or Tk but god fucking damn HTML has managed it. |
| 03:49 | <@Namegduf> | XD |
| 03:49 | <@Namegduf> | Glad it got sorted. |
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| 03:57 | < ToxicFrog> | And now I rage at Python for its function scope making something that should have been a really obvious runtime error instead be subtly incorrect output. |
| 03:57 | < ToxicFrog> | Because god forbid for loops not leak their loop variables. |
| 03:57 | <&Derakon> | Lack of block scope in Python makes me sad. |
| 04:00 | < ToxicFrog> | Ok, it's finally live: http://orias:8666/ |
| 04:01 | < ToxicFrog> | I'll post about it in the roguelikes thread tomorrow when I'm awake enough to put the fires out if someone breaks it~ |
| 04:01 | < Turaiel> | That link is local dawg |
| 04:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Right whoops |
| 04:02 | < ToxicFrog> | http://phobos.ancilla.ca:8666/ |
| 04:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Dev machine != prod machine |
| 04:02 | < Turaiel> | Ah doom~ |
| 04:02 | <&Derakon> | Hey, a leaderboard. Nice. |
| 04:03 | <&Derakon> | And I can load a binary ttyrec into my browser~ |
| 04:03 | <&Derakon> | 'gratz on the Angel of 100. |
| 04:03 | < ToxicFrog> | Thank you. |
| 04:04 | < ToxicFrog> | I'm actually more proud of the AoOC and AoD wins |
| 04:04 | < ToxicFrog> | (and I just realized that people can see from the scoreboard that I beat AoD in advance of me posting the update. Aah well.) |
| 04:04 | <&Derakon> | I'm not familiar with acronyms, so EAP? |
| 04:05 | < ToxicFrog> | Angel of Overconfidence and Angel of Impatience. |
| 04:05 | < ToxicFrog> | I made an AoOC post in the LPRL megathread yesterday, it's the one with the big animated gif. |
| 04:05 | <&Derakon> | ...D -> Impatience? |
| 04:05 | < ToxicFrog> | Er |
| 04:05 | <&Derakon> | Yes, I saw that one. |
| 04:05 | < ToxicFrog> | Darkness |
| 04:05 | < ToxicFrog> | Sorr |
| 04:05 | < ToxicFrog> | *sorry |
| 04:05 | < ToxicFrog> | Long day |
| 04:06 | < ToxicFrog> | Darkness is reduced vision range + no map memory + some things the description lies about~ |
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| 04:06 | <&Derakon> | That sounds somewhat unfun honestly. |
| 04:07 | < ToxicFrog> | I enjoyed it. It encourages a very different playstyle from how I usually play. |
| 04:08 | < ToxicFrog> | That said, playing it without sound as anything except an Intuition Scout is probably excessively masochistic. |
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| 05:09 | <@Alek> | So, I should stay away. got it. >_> |
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| 05:55 | <@celticminstrel> | I did a thing. http://celmin.pwcsite.com/dnd/view_spell/detail/1 |
| 05:58 | <@Alek> | so... you made a more detailed SRD? |
| 06:00 | <@celticminstrel> | No, just spells. |
| 06:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Because d20.org's spell filter isn't all that good. |
| 06:00 | <@celticminstrel> | (Also, I haven't input any of the data yet.) |
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| 06:06 | <@Alek> | well, the somatic/verbal/material stuff is basically just fluff, except for costly material foci, which DO rate a mention in the regular SRD. |
| 06:07 | <@celticminstrel> | I know it's just fluff, that's why I just made up whatever. |
| 06:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Still, for writing purposes, the fluff adds character. |
| 06:07 | <@Alek> | well.... much of the older stuff DOES have the fluffy parts defined in older editions and in books. if you want to bother looking. :P |
| 06:08 | <@Alek> | (lightning bolt - focus is glass rod and piece of (rabbit) fur) |
| 06:09 | <@celticminstrel> | Instead of writing "Elaina casts Fireball", I can write "Elaina drew out a tiny pellet of something and flung it towards the enemy, whispering the incantation 'garmth ixen'; the pellet catches fire in mid-flight, growing rapidly into a full-fledged fireball". |
| 06:09 | <@Alek> | (fireball - focus is a pellet of bat guano and gunpowder?) |
| 06:09 | <@celticminstrel> | Yes. |
| 06:09 | <@celticminstrel> | Those are actually in the SRD too. |
| 06:09 | <@Alek> | I'm just mentioning the ones I remember reading, in a Dragonlance novel and an old munchkin fic, respectively. |
| 06:10 | <@Alek> | sorry. the fireball is a material component, not a focus. |
| 06:10 | <@celticminstrel> | How'd the Dragonlance books go about writing it? I haven't read any myself (though I think I have a few somewhere). |
| 06:12 | <@Alek> | err. I recall Raijin (the sickly mage) had a "nightmare" about his brother Caramon (the musclebound warrior) using the abovementioned components to cast lightning to defeat an opponent. basically because Raistlin was afraid he would be useless and replaceable if that happened. |
| 06:12 | <@Alek> | it was a prequel to the original novels. |
| 06:12 | <@Alek> | and with a fireball, pretty sure the pellet doesn't expand until the point of impact. |
| 06:13 | <@Alek> | they specifically talk about being able to guide it through tiny slits with a good enough roll. |
| 06:13 | <@Alek> | (in the PHB) |
| 06:13 | <@celticminstrel> | I see. |
| 06:14 | <@celticminstrel> | They do mention these things to some extent, then. |
| 06:14 | <@celticminstrel> | I haven't written the filter code yet for this. |
| 06:15 | <@celticminstrel> | So it just has "detail" and "new". |
| 06:15 | | * Alek nods. |
| 06:15 | <@Alek> | (with a fireball, the necklace of fireballs works the same way) |
| 06:16 | <@celticminstrel> | Also, in a first for me with web stuff, it's Python. |
| 06:16 | <@Alek> | (except it's thrown, doesn't go straight like the spell, presumably) |
| 06:17 | <@celticminstrel> | I guess that makes sense. |
| 06:19 | <@Alek> | :P |
| 06:20 | <@Alek> | Fireball is basically Line of Sight. but now I'm thinking of using Necklace of Fireballs for grenades, lob them over a wall or around a corner. :P |
| 06:20 | <@celticminstrel> | Fireball requires line of sight, yes. |
| 06:21 | <@Alek> | oh, and always remember that your AoE spells shape themselves to the environment. a 10x10 tunnel WILL extend the fireball along. |
| 06:21 | <@celticminstrel> | Of course, that line of sight could be through a hole in the wall... the SRD even specifies a size... |
| 06:21 | <@Alek> | yep. that's what I was talking about. |
| 06:21 | <@celticminstrel> | That applies to all spread spells. |
| 06:21 | <@celticminstrel> | 1 sq ft |
| 06:22 | <@Alek> | hmmmm. I'd love to see a realtime, 1st or 3rd person computer game with D&D rules. |
| 06:23 | <@Alek> | so you can actually sling lightning bolts and fireballs and SEE them expand, while you're frantically backpedaling up the tunnel. :P |
| 06:23 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh. |
| 06:24 | <@Alek> | see the lightning bolt reflect off the walls. |
| 06:24 | | * Vornicus has a fit of pique, decides to see if he can implement a nikoli puzzle game. |
| 06:25 | <@Alek> | ooo. had a thought. if you have a long monster going down a tunnel at you, and throw a ray or bolt at it that normally goes through monsters until maximum range (like lightning)... |
| 06:25 | <@Alek> | if you throw it straight through, it'll only do damage the once. but if you bounce it sideways so it zigzags off the walls.... it should hit multiple times, doing damage each time. |
| 06:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Technically the rules say it just stops when it hits a wall, but that'd certainly be neat. |
| 06:27 | <@Alek> | maybe I'm thinking of roguelike lightning, then? that definitely reflects, so if you fire it at a normal, it'll reflect back at you. and if you've got another wall behind, it'll reflect again. etc. |
| 06:27 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe. |
| 06:27 | <@celticminstrel> | Depends on the roguelile though. :P I didn't code my lightning that way. |
| 06:27 | <@celticminstrel> | ^like |
| 06:29 | <@Alek> | hmm. is deathcookie down? |
| 06:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Dunno what that is. |
| 06:36 | <@Alek> | oops, wrong channel. -_- |
| 06:46 | | * McMartin deploys some madness alarmingly close to template metaprogramming |
| 06:46 | <@celticminstrel> | I should probably split out the HTML templates into seperate files from my code... |
| 06:46 | <&McMartin> | You can tell because once the templated code is deployed it looks suspiciously clean. |
| 06:46 | <@celticminstrel> | Suspiciously clean? |
| 06:47 | <&McMartin> | C++ template code is generally horrific |
| 06:48 | <&McMartin> | And this is code where expanding the template can create new templates that need expansion, etc, but the client code just declares one type and calls a function on it |
| 06:48 | <&McMartin> | Maybe assigns the result to "auto" type, because C++11 is about as good as Go when it comes to that stuff |
| 06:48 | <&McMartin> | And it looks like it's doing the right thing, even when there's recursion involved. |
| 06:48 | <&McMartin> | (it's a datastructure walker, but at the end of the day it's no more messy than, say, vector<vector<char>>, which is also legal in C++11) |
| 06:49 | <&McMartin> | (That's why it's only close to TMP, and not actually it. The classic example is using C++ templates to compute the fibonnaci sequence at compile time.) |
| 06:50 | <@celticminstrel> | This is in C++? |
| 06:52 | <@celticminstrel> | (Also, here's the "add new spell" page; if you click submit though you'll get a 403. http://celmin.pwcsite.com/dnd/view_spell/new ) |
| 06:53 | <&McMartin> | Yes, the thing I'm doing is in C++ |
| 06:57 | | * Vornicus examines various nikoli puzzles for things that are reasonably autodeduce. nurikabe does not have many of those. |
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| --- Log closed Sun May 31 13:45:00 2015 |
| --- Log opened Sun May 31 13:50:18 2015 |
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| 17:32 | <@celticminstrel> | Whyyy am I getting a KeyError for a key that's in the dictionary... :| |
| 17:33 | < kourbou> | Because it isn't. |
| 17:33 | < kourbou> | :P |
| 17:33 | <@celticminstrel> | It's definitely there. |
| 17:42 | <@celticminstrel> | I can get the key out via indexing notation, but str.format doesn't seem to see it. |
| 17:43 | <@celticminstrel> | Ooh. |
| 17:43 | | * celticminstrel facepalm. |
| 17:43 | <@celticminstrel> | Right, str.format only understands kwargs. |
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| 19:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I now have a .so, built from Rust, that doomrl successfully loads and calls into in place of libSDL_mixer |
| 19:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | Of course, it aborts as soon as it calls any of these functions because they're all "not implemented" stubs, but progress! |
| 19:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | Unfortunately it looks like it also uses Mix_LoadWAV_RW, which means I don't get the filename. |
| 19:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | Current plan: replace the contents of the wavhq directory such that each file just contains its filename. It doesn't need to be a valid WAV, after all. |
| 19:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | Then, when Mix_LoadWAV_RW is called, read the name and return a pointer to it, which doomrl can then pass back to us when it wants something "played". |
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| 19:44 | <@gnolam> | https://twitter.com/neillyneil/status/604920707680731137 |
| 19:49 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 19:49 | <&McMartin> | I actually opened my dissertation with an epigram quote of the first person, back in the 40s or something, to realize in writing that debugging was going to be most of the task |
| 19:52 | <&McMartin> | "As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it wasn't as easy to get programs right as we thought. Debugging had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instnat when I realized that a large part of my life from then on was gpong to be spent in finding mistakes in my own programs." |
| 19:55 | <&McMartin> | To be fair to the linked quote |
| 19:55 | <&McMartin> | It says the most *exciting* part |
| 19:55 | <&McMartin> | This is true, in the same sense that the bit where the rhino charges is the most exciting part of your trek through the savannah. |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jun 01 00:00:00 2015 |