| --- Log opened Sun Apr 05 00:00:30 2015 |
| 00:02 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-180u8i.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Connection closed] |
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| 00:03 | <&McMartin> | Tamber: Man, how does this guy function in society |
| 00:03 | | Kindamoody|autojoin is now known as Kindamoody |
| 00:03 | <@Tamber> | Who? JWZ? |
| 00:03 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. I mean, it's helpful to have a list of everything that's horribly wrong, everywhere, but this is one of those things where the rational reaction is literally to burn down every machine you see |
| 00:03 | <&McMartin> | http://www.jwz.org/blog/2014/10/we-live-in-a-magical-future-where-strings-is-exp loitable/ |
| 00:04 | <@Tamber> | I think he's just maxed out his jaded-ness stat. |
| 00:04 | <&McMartin> | If he had, he would not be so horrified~ |
| 00:04 | <&McMartin> | The commenters maxed out their jadedness stat |
| 00:04 | <@Tamber> | hehehe |
| 00:05 | <&McMartin> | Half the comments are "it says GNU right there" |
| 00:05 | <@Tamber> | :) |
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| 00:05 | <&McMartin> | And, you know, I'd say "that's maybe excessive" but, well, Shellshock. |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | 25 years |
| 00:06 | <@Tamber> | hehehe |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | Open source software is safer because many eyes are looking at it all the time so serious bugs won't survive! |
| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | ^_^ |
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| 00:06 | <&McMartin> | I honestly give the OpenSSL developers more credit for basic competence |
| 00:07 | <&McMartin> | All the stuff people hairtear about in there is very obviously in the service of an extremely specific and generally laudable goal |
| 00:07 | <&McMartin> | That happens to be fatally incompatible with GNU~ |
| 00:07 | <&McMartin> | (viz: run *everywhere* on *everything* without having to worry about certain bugs being fixed in people's underlying libraries &c) |
| 00:07 | <@Tamber> | The problem with the many-eyes theory is... hunting down little bugs like that is boring; adding new features is exciting! |
| 00:08 | <&McMartin> | Also, every three years most software that is maintained is just completely set on fire and they go back in reimplement it "more cleanly", which means "with three years of those messy bug fixes taken out" |
| 00:08 | <&McMartin> | Thus bringing back the bugs |
| 00:08 | <@Tamber> | CADT development method. |
| 00:08 | <&McMartin> | EAP? |
| 00:08 | <@Tamber> | http://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html |
| 00:09 | <&McMartin> | Yyep |
| 00:09 | <&McMartin> | That's not exclusive to open-source, either |
| 00:11 | <&McMartin> | "I solved this and every other Gnome 3 issue by buying a Mac." |
| 00:12 | <@Tamber> | Where he gets a whole new and different bunch of issues. |
| 00:12 | <@Tamber> | Because everything sucks. |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | But they aren't GNOME 3 issues, which I can't immediately discount~ |
| 00:12 | <@Tamber> | hehehe |
| 00:12 | <@Namegduf> | The secret is to use software where the developers have grown bored and now only do things when forced to. |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | My favorite Mac bug that ordinary developers would actually encounter involves their installer scripts |
| 00:12 | <@Namegduf> | You get critical bugfixes but they don't break shit all the time. |
| 00:12 | <@Namegduf> | XD |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | There's a field you can check called diskSpaceInKilobytes or similar |
| 00:13 | <@Namegduf> | The problem for me with Mac is Finder. |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | The documentation - conveniently available IN PDF FORMAT - documents it |
| 00:13 | <@Namegduf> | I've spent a lot of time with it, and I still hate it. |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | "This field contains the amount of space left on the destination volume, in kilobytes" |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | It is actually in bytes |
| 00:13 | <@Tamber> | ... |
| 00:13 | <@Tamber> | So it's only out by a little bit~? |
| 00:14 | <@Namegduf> | XD |
| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | This is going to be *so awesome* when they actually fix it, probably by breaking backcompat |
| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | And then people will go back to the projects, with the original developers long gone |
| 00:14 | <@Tamber> | It'lll never get fixed, then? |
| 00:14 | | * Tamber eats one of those 'l's. |
| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | And they'll see all these people with code that is clearly using a field marked "inKilobytes" as if it were bytes |
| 00:14 | <@Tamber> | *snrk* |
| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | And they will rant and rave about how early-201x programmers were, every last one, idiotic illiterates who had no business writing software ever |
| 00:15 | <&McMartin> | And they'll all be wrong. ^_^ |
| 00:15 | <@Tamber> | And then the cycle begins anew~ |
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| 00:31 | <&McMartin> | "Discussions between us and them are always "The sky is falling! Our umbrellas are useless! People could die!" vs. "yes we know. God you people are so boring. Tell me something I might care about" and the best part is you can attribute both quotes to either side interchangeably." |
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| 01:00 | | * McMartin rereads http://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks and loses it again when he gets to the bit about Light German Electronica |
| 01:31 | <@gnolam> | Must be a cultural difference. Tends to be heavy German electronica over here.~ |
| 01:36 | <&McMartin> | That's for when you're in the trenches. The study of good code requires a lighter touch~ |
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| 02:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | "Most people don't even know what sysadmins do, but trust me, if they all took a lunch break at the same time they wouldn't make it to the deli before you ran out of bullets protecting your canned goods from roving bands of mutants." |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | As we have various people on this network and elsewhere close to the food and electricity supply chains, and water is one of those things that Californians keep an eye on... |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, actually, all of industrial humanity's infrastructure is like this~ |
| 02:29 | <&Derakon> | What was the phrase? Civilization is always two missed meals away from anarchy? |
| 02:30 | <&McMartin> | Something like that |
| 02:30 | <&McMartin> | Unless you're a hobbit |
| 02:30 | <&McMartin> | Some days you have to skip both breakfast *and* second breakfast. |
| 02:31 | | Reiver is now known as Orth |
| 02:40 | <@Ogredude> | The only reason coders' computers work better than non-coders' computers is coders know computers are schizophrenic little children with auto-immune diseases and we don't beat them when they're bad. |
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| 08:42 | < abudhabi> | I think I've figured out why ADP reports so many ads. |
| 08:43 | < abudhabi> | It looks like Youtube has changed its video display thingamajig to use some sort of Ajax request, so the page doesn't count as a new one, but the "new" ads get counted just the same. |
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| 13:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Fuck I hate build systems. |
| 13:02 | <@froztbyte> | ? |
| 13:02 | <@froztbyte> | which ones? |
| 13:03 | < [R]> | Learn make, it works everywhere and doesn't hide stuff from you when it inevitably goes horribly wrong. |
| 13:03 | <@Tarinaky> | All o them. |
| 13:04 | <@Tarinaky> | Today: cmake. |
| 13:04 | < [R]> | Then use CI |
| 13:04 | <@Tarinaky> | make doesn't do enough. |
| 13:04 | <@Tarinaky> | make is fine if you only want to ever compile on one computer. |
| 13:05 | < [R]> | lolwut |
| 13:06 | <@Tarinaky> | So. Find boost can't find the libraries because it's looking for the wronf files. |
| 13:06 | <@Tarinaky> | https://gist.github.com/anonymous/177b1b8fe9d8bd35b83a |
| 13:07 | <@Tarinaky> | It should be looking for something like libboost_unit_test_framework-vc120-mt-1_57 |
| 13:09 | <@Tarinaky> | Noting the lack of vc120 in the paths it's searching for. |
| 13:14 | <@Tarinaky> | make files have no space for machine specific config...which means you can't track them in vcs... or have to track a million of them, or have to have a make file with enough magic as to be its own engineering challenge. |
| 13:15 | < [R]> | Just use the include feature? |
| 13:16 | <@Tarinaky> | It is still way too fiddly to do crossplatform development. |
| 13:16 | < [R]> | You can also do stuff like: make TARGET=systemX |
| 13:16 | <@Tarinaky> | Anyway. Any clue why cmake is doing he wrong thing? |
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| 13:54 | <&McMartin> | cmake isn't make |
| 13:55 | <&McMartin> | It's much worse |
| 13:55 | <&McMartin> | In the "point releases randomly break your build scripts" sense |
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| 14:02 | <@Tarinaky> | I know cmake isn't make. |
| 14:02 | <@Tarinaky> | However i'm struggling with cmake today. |
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| 14:04 | <@Tarinaky> | https://gist.github.com/anonymous/fb6572f5cf4da45357dd |
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| 17:09 | | * Derakon readsup. |
| 17:09 | <&Derakon> | Every once in awhile, our project at work (which is a moderately widely-used open-source microscope control program) has some person come by and say "Oh man you guys, you should totally change your build system to use CMake!" |
| 17:10 | <&Derakon> | The latest instance of this, the guy in question actually did implement a CMake build that ignored, well, basically every remotely complicated component. |
| 17:10 | <&Derakon> | And only worked on Linux. |
| 17:10 | <~Vornicus> | man |
| 17:33 | < [R]> | Nice. |
| 17:33 | < [R]> | E- for effort. |
| 17:40 | <@celticminstrel> | I need to build a Makefile for BoE. |
| 17:45 | < abudhabi> | Are you trying to make Blades of Exile work on modern systems? |
| 17:45 | <@celticminstrel> | More like, I have made Blades of Exile work on modern systems. |
| 17:45 | <@celticminstrel> | More or less. |
| 17:45 | <@celticminstrel> | Not necessarily reliably, |
| 17:47 | <@celticminstrel> | Of four or five people who tried a build I posted, only one was actually successful. |
| 17:48 | <@Shiz> | Derakon: often an issue report that includes the word cmake can be easily ignored |
| 17:48 | <@celticminstrel> | It works for me on both Mac and Windows and for one other Mac user to built it. |
| 17:49 | <@celticminstrel> | (Well, of the four or five people who tried it and told me about it. There could've been others who just said nothing because it worked.) |
| 17:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Derakon: That anecdote doesn't really apply to a green field project in anyway though. |
| 17:55 | <@Tarinaky> | I mean, I could spend the next 10 years making a make script that was amazingly kickass. |
| 17:58 | <&Derakon> | Tarinaky: sure, when you're starting fresh you have comparative freedom in deciding what build system to use. |
| 17:58 | <&Derakon> | I was more making an observation about fanatics. |
| 17:58 | <@Tarinaky> | The readsup implies it was related to the discussion ;) |
| 17:59 | <@Tarinaky> | I got it working in the end. I'm not sure what I did, but somehow I managed to torture my CMakeCache into working |
| 18:00 | <&Derakon> | It was related in the sense that it related to CMake~ |
| 18:39 | <~Vornicus> | also, honestly the only build system I ever found to do what I needed was rake |
| 18:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | I've had good results with pm and premake, personally |
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| 22:45 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. Given that today's phones have "adjust screen brightness according to ambient light", why don't they have "adjust ringtone volume according to ambient sound conditions"? |
| 22:45 | <@gnolam> | (Also, they should have two "hang up" buttons: one that hangs up like usual and one that plays the sound of a handset being angrily slammed down before disconnecting the call.) |
| 23:08 | <~Vornicus> | gnolam: frankly that screen brightness thing never really works for me |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | http://codepoets.co.uk/images/2014/b55868c01d3fa743c48e4f43aaeb7443.jpg |
| 23:26 | | Thalasleep [thalass@Nightstar-h1qmno.eastlink.ca] has joined #code |
| 23:29 | <@Alek> | actually, many newer smartphones do have an "adjust ringtone volume according to location" setting, at least. my note 3 will ring/vibrate louder if it senses it's in your pocket or purse, for example. (I turned that off, as well as most sensing options, though. save battery.) |
| 23:29 | <@Alek> | the brightness adjust DOES work, most of the time. |
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| 23:46 | <~Vornicus> | I mean, it "works" |
| 23:46 | <~Vornicus> | but that's not to say that the results are satisfactory |
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| --- Log closed Mon Apr 06 00:00:46 2015 |