| --- Log opened Mon Mar 09 00:00:31 2015 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Mar 09 08:39:40 2015 |
| --- Log opened Mon Mar 09 08:39:45 2015 |
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| 09:25 | < abudhabi> | Java. Can I make a copy of an array with just: String foo[] |
| 09:25 | < abudhabi> | String foo[] = bar; |
| 09:25 | < abudhabi> | ? |
| 09:28 | <&McMartin> | No. That's an alias. |
| 09:28 | <&McMartin> | (arrays are objects) |
| 09:30 | < abudhabi> | Oh. (Actually, nevermind. I found a better way to do what I wanted.) |
| 09:47 | < Tarinaky_> | iirc Java has .clone() on most objects |
| 09:49 | <&McMartin> | There's an arrayCopy method either in Arrays or System, too. |
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| 12:53 | < Tarinaky_> | Eugh, no good threads on reddit's /r/programming today. |
| 12:54 | < Tarinaky_> | Just crazy people geing insane with OO. |
| 12:54 | < Tarinaky_> | *being |
| 12:55 | < Tarinaky_> | One article saying getters/setters were evil... And then went to describe a solution where they'd just renamed the getter/setter give and take. |
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| 12:55 | < [R]> | asdfan;fda |
| 12:55 | < Tarinaky_> | Thus removing any ability for a new programmer to grok the code without the manual. |
| 12:56 | < [R]> | Yeah, that's dumb. |
| 12:56 | < [R]> | Most get/set setups are moronic though |
| 12:56 | < Tarinaky_> | They made a valid point about extra mutability being introduced by the Builder pattern... |
| 12:56 | < Tarinaky_> | But frankly the alternative they proposed is to have an insane constructor where you have to memorise a ton of positionals. |
| 13:01 | <@Shiz> | what you want is a language with properties |
| 13:01 | <@Shiz> | :) |
| 13:04 | < Tarinaky_> | Properties? |
| 13:07 | < Tarinaky_> | There was also another complaining that matrix multiplication is tech and how the author finds C = A * B in code obtuse and how everything would be better if C = A * B was just unrolled into a giant for-loop. |
| 13:07 | < RchrdB> | Tarinaky_: "memorize a ton of positionals" isn't so bad if you work in a lang with proper keyword args and defaulting. |
| 13:08 | < Tarinaky_> | RchrdB: Keyword args aren't positionals. |
| 13:08 | < RchrdB> | It's also not *so* bad if, uh, you lean on a static type system a bit, and have an IDE that does that, and every single parameter has a distinct type. |
| 13:08 | < Tarinaky_> | And yes, passing in an initialiser map of key-value pairs is a good alternative to the builder pattern... Assuming your language supports this in a sensible way. |
| 13:09 | < Tarinaky_> | I wouldn't want to do this in C++. |
| 13:09 | < RchrdB> | Yeah. I assume they were proposing something for Java specifically, since that's the biggest source of not-supporting-trivial-features-like-kwargs in common use these days? |
| 13:10 | < Tarinaky_> | RchrdB: I am disinclined to rely on an IDE feature to make the code useable because then you're beholden to your IDE vendor. |
| 13:11 | < RchrdB> | Eh. Showing the types of all foo()'s positional parameters in a tiny hovering pop-up near the cursor whenever I have my cursor anywhere near the string "foo(" isn't, uh, something I'm going to be beholden to any *one* IDE vendor for. |
| 13:11 | < RchrdB> | I should really find out how to get Emacs to do that. |
| 13:11 | < Tarinaky_> | The builder pattern with a massive @notice letters 10ft high that says not to use these setters for anything other than a poor man's kwargs is acceptable to me. |
| 13:12 | <@TheWatcher> | RchrdB: eldoc-mode? |
| 13:12 | < Tarinaky_> | I mean, it's a hack... but at least it's a conventional hack. |
| 13:12 | < RchrdB> | Does the Builder pattern usually imply a .finalize() method? |
| 13:13 | < Tarinaky_> | Not usually. |
| 13:13 | < Tarinaky_> | I think some languages take finalize to mean destructor. |
| 13:14 | < RchrdB> | like, foofactory.name("bob").friend("alice").friend("charlie").likes("salmon").create( ) instead of ânew Foo(name="bob", friends=["alice", "charlie"], likes=["salmon"])â |
| 13:15 | < RchrdB> | shitty substitute but hey Ma, no accidentally-mutable objects. |
| 13:15 | < Tarinaky_> | Confession: I never got my head around Factories. |
| 13:16 | < RchrdB> | They're a long-winded name for "use this function or object as if it were a constructor". |
| 13:16 | < Tarinaky_> | I... think I can implement them... Or at least solve whatever problem it is that they're supposed to solve. |
| 13:16 | < Tarinaky_> | I just don't understand what a factory is in any rigorous sense. |
| 13:17 | < RchrdB> | The entire pattern is "instead of writing ânew Foo()â, get a FooFactory (from somewhere) and call foo_factory.newFoo()" |
| 13:17 | < RchrdB> | If you write Python, the 'factory' pattern is trivial, and type objects are factories. |
| 13:17 | < Tarinaky_> | Yeah. |
| 13:19 | <@Shiz> | Tarinaky_: properties are transparent getters/setters |
| 13:19 | <@Shiz> | e.g. in python |
| 13:19 | <@Shiz> | class A: |
| 13:19 | <@Shiz> | @property |
| 13:19 | <@Shiz> | def b(self): return 42 |
| 13:20 | <@Shiz> | @b.setter |
| 13:20 | <@Shiz> | def b(self, val): if val != 42: raise ValueError('no') |
| 13:20 | <@Shiz> | and instations can just do a.b and a.b = 42 |
| 13:20 | <@Shiz> | etc |
| 13:23 | < Tarinaky_> | Oh, right. |
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| 17:36 | <@iospace> | I love the compare tool in NP++ |
| 17:37 | <@Alek> | o/ |
| 17:38 | <@Shiz> | diff? |
| 17:42 | <@Alek> | something like that, I think. |
| 17:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | I've gotten really happy with Meld lately. |
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| 19:08 | | * gnolam slow claps http://i.imgur.com/xOz2jQR.jpg |
| 19:08 | <@gnolam> | Yes, Google. Please go into a restaurant and ask for an arrangement of data in rows and columns for two and see what happens. |
| 19:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Heee |
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| 20:38 | <@froztbyte> | gnolam: what's the correct form? |
| 20:39 | <@froztbyte> | closer to germanic or something? |
| 20:39 | <@froztbyte> | "tafel" is afrikaans, and I've noticed a lot of that kind of thing in swedish |
| 20:40 | <@gnolam> | "bord" |
| 20:41 | <@froztbyte> | curious |
| 20:41 | <@froztbyte> | that's "plate" or "board" |
| 20:41 | <@froztbyte> | :D |
| 20:41 | <@froztbyte> | I love the little differences in these things |
| 20:42 | <@gnolam> | "Taffel" does exist as a word, and did mean table once upon a time, but the surviving uses wouldn't get you a table at a restaurant. |
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| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | Ah, IOCCC entries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMYfkOtYYlg |
| 22:16 | <~Vornicus> | ....what the shit that's amazeballs |
| 22:27 | <@TheWatcher> | Aahah |
| 22:27 | <@TheWatcher> | That's pretty awesome |
| 22:29 | <&jeroud> | It is indeed. |
| 22:36 | | * TheWatcher eyes the initial code, tries to work it out |
| 22:45 | <&McMartin> | Notice that it apparently requires some constants to be defined by the compiler command line |
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| --- Log closed Tue Mar 10 00:00:47 2015 |