| --- Log opened Thu Jan 29 00:00:46 2015 |
| 00:25 | <&McMartin> | http://www.geek.com/games/computer-chess-created-in-487-bytes-breaks-32-year-old -record-1614445/ |
| 00:25 | <&McMartin> | I'm not sure why they're listing which OSes a boot-sector program "runs" on thoguh, it's A BOOT SECTOR. |
| 00:32 | <&Derakon> | I admit to being curious how smart the ZX-81 chess AI was. |
| 00:34 | <&Derakon> | The fact that this implementation doesn't appear to have an AI is suggestive of how it manages to be smaller. |
| 00:37 | < Reiv> | McMartin: Yes, I think that bit was a bit off |
| 00:38 | < Reiv> | "It will run on any modern PC regardless of its nominal OS" is, however, probably a little too technical. |
| 00:38 | < Reiv> | And mactards (distinct from people who merely use macs) would be "On any PC? But does it run on mac??" etc |
| 00:42 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 00:43 | < Shiz> | Reiv: the fun thing is it won't |
| 00:43 | < Shiz> | so they'd be right |
| 00:43 | < Shiz> | lol |
| 00:45 | <&McMartin> | I've used the ZX81 |
| 00:45 | <&McMartin> | It's pretty much irredeemable |
| 00:47 | < Reiv> | McMartin: That was the brit machine in the days of atari or commodore or something wasn't it? |
| 00:49 | <&McMartin> | It is to those machines what the PET2001 was to the Commodore 64. |
| 00:51 | < Reiv> | I don't actually know the PET2001 |
| 00:52 | <&McMartin> | Exactly~ |
| 00:53 | <&McMartin> | The ZX81 had 1K of RAM, a keyboard less usable than a Speak'n'Spell, and the BASIC it shipped with could not actually understand command words; you had to use individual letters that mapped to commands when it was in a special command mode |
| 00:53 | <&McMartin> | Which is to say, you had to program the damn thing directly in bytecode |
| 00:54 | <&McMartin> | It also could display graphics or do computation but not both at the same time. |
| 00:54 | <&McMartin> | It was marketed in the US by a watch company. |
| 00:54 | <&McMartin> | This... did not end well |
| 00:54 | < Reiv> | A... watch company |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | It was also about the size of two game boy advances, so I guess there's that |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | The ZX81 was sold in the US as the Timex Sinclair 1000. |
| 00:55 | < Reiv> | what was its contemporary compeditors? |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | ... Oh, I see |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | Actually it was marketed that way because Timex was the manufacturer everywhere and they were known in the US solely for watches. |
| 00:56 | < Reiv> | that's a little bit more reasonable >_> |
| 00:56 | <&McMartin> | The Commodore 64 came out the year after it did. |
| 00:56 | <&McMartin> | So its immediate competitor was the VIC-20, I suppose |
| 00:57 | <&McMartin> | But it cost 50 pounds instead of, like, 300 pounds. |
| 00:57 | <&McMartin> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX81#mediaviewer/File:Sinclair-ZX81.png |
| 00:57 | <&McMartin> | Check out that keyboard~ |
| 00:57 | <&McMartin> | It was, however, apparently commercially successful |
| 00:58 | <&McMartin> | Despite apparently having a five-year run at best. |
| 00:58 | <&McMartin> | Er. three year run. 1981-1984. |
| 00:58 | <&McMartin> | Compare the Atari 2600's run of 1977 to 1992. |
| 00:58 | < Reiv> | I am concerned that the comparison is a little unfair |
| 00:58 | < Reiv> | This thing was substantially smaller and cheaper than an Atari, correct? |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | Mmm |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | By 1984 I'm not sure. |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | Smaller, yes |
| 00:59 | <~Vornicus> | Compute! always had ZX Spectrum programs |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, those were the Spectrum 48, which was an *actually credible* competitor to the C64 |
| 00:59 | <~Vornicus> | I wonder if anybody's put up an archive of Compute!'s Gazette stuff |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | I have found individual documents about the Internet. |
| 01:00 | <~Vornicus> | 'cause that was my favorite thing for like seven years |
| 01:01 | <&McMartin> | I found some individual disk images, and some articles, and some book collections. |
| 01:01 | <&McMartin> | Which is how I found SuperTechnik, which is pretty fabulous |
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| 10:28 | < abudhabi> | Hmm. Can you have an invisible HTML element that nonetheless takes up as much space as it would were it not invisible? |
| 11:06 | <@TheWatcher> | style="opacity: 0;" |
| 11:07 | < abudhabi> | Hmm. Is such an element still functional? Will a button be invisible but clickable? |
| 11:15 | <@gnolam> | Yes. This is the basic principle of clickjacking. |
| 11:15 | < abudhabi> | Not useful to me, then. |
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| 13:06 | < Syka> | ToxicFrog: Python does have a standards committee (PEPs essentially) |
| 13:07 | < Syka> | also on the necro-topic of the GIL, the GIL Is Good because it means that hilarity up the stack can't occur |
| 13:07 | < Syka> | but pypy's STM is even better |
| 13:45 | <@Tarinaky> | http://googletesting.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/testing-on-toilet-change-detector-te sts.html?m=1 |
| 13:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: yes? |
| 13:53 | <@Tarinaky> | Sorry. I was under the impression we encouraged the sharing of programming-related links. |
| 13:53 | <@Tarinaky> | Won't happen again. |
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| 14:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: we do, that was more "is there some greater point this is a part of or did you just think it's interesting" |
| 14:12 | <@Tarinaky> | The latter. |
| 14:13 | <@Tarinaky> | Sorry |
| 14:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Nothing to apologize for. |
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| 15:08 | <@iospace> | i love F12 in word. quick shortcut to save as |
| 15:16 | | * Tarinaky grumbles at C++ not guarenteeing the order of execution for && as a feature of the language. |
| 15:16 | <@Tarinaky> | This would have made this code slightly less painful :/ |
| 15:27 | < JBeshir> | You mean if it's overloaded? |
| 15:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: && and || are, per the spec, always evaluated left to right, and short-circuit |
| 15:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you're working in an environment where order of evaluation of logical operators is undefined, file all of the bugs against the compiler. |
| 15:33 | < JBeshir> | So long as they aren't overloaded, yeah. |
| 15:33 | <@iospace> | i swear to the gods that once we get free reign on this code, i'm going to nuke ALL THE MAGIC NUMBERS. Or well, most of them |
| 15:33 | < JBeshir> | (I went looking to try to figure out if there was a case it wouldn't short circuit) |
| 15:34 | < JBeshir> | (Naturally, this being C++, there was one, but it probably isn't applicable) |
| 15:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | JBeshir: if they're overloaded they won't short circuit but I'm pretty sure the operands are still guaranteed to be evaluated LTR. |
| 15:36 | < JBeshir> | Ah, could be. |
| 15:56 | <@gnolam> | Yeah. |
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| 16:21 | <@gnolam> | Noo! I'm running out of VB Scotch! |
| 16:28 | <@iospace> | when trying to debug your program, actually having the program running may help |
| 16:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | snow \o/ |
| 16:45 | <@Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: I thought it was undefined behavior in C++ |
| 16:45 | <@Tarinaky> | I've always tried to avoid it. |
| 16:45 | <@Tarinaky> | +as a consequence |
| 16:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: nope. |
| 16:52 | <@Tarinaky> | arse arse arse. Just got spoken to about my above average number of sick days >.< |
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| 17:22 | <@thalass> | Tarinaky: Woe. I presume there's a reason, not just being hungover or whatevs |
| 17:27 | <@Tarinaky> | thalass: I tend to fall ill easily. |
| 17:27 | | * thalass nods |
| 17:28 | <@thalass> | I would think it's better to stay home rather than make everyone else sick, too. |
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| 19:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Holy shit, the floating point module in vstruct generates an assload of garbage |
| 19:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | I was running a perf test that writes and then reads a buffer of 2^14 floats |
| 19:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | With the GC enabled, this takes about 5 seconds, or half that in luajit. |
| 19:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | With the GC disabled, it OOM. |
| 19:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | Interestingly, the perf tests that operate on a file on disk are 2-10x faster (with a warm cache) than the ones that operate on a string in memory, presumably because they aren't stressing the GC nearly as much. |
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| 19:42 | | * celticminstrel wonders what this is. |
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| 20:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: what is "this" here? vstruct? |
| 20:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | https://github.com/toxicfrog/vstruct -- probably not of interest unless you want to do binary file IO in Lua. |
| 20:47 | | * McMartin gets a very confused email about Ophis that is less justifiable than the previous one. |
| 20:48 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah, Lua. |
| 20:48 | <@celticminstrel> | A Lua equivalent of that Python module? |
| 21:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: no, those already existed when |
| 21:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | I started writing vstruct. |
| 21:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | This is considerably more powerful, more portable, and slower. |
| 21:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | In particular it's not limited to C types (it supports arbitrary-width ints, for example, and fixed point numbers), lets you describe the actual data structure in the format string (including field names, arrays, and nested structs), and is written in pure lua with no external dependencies. |
| 21:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | (the genesis of this was the ss1edit project, which requires support for things like 24-bit ints and 24.8 fixed point values) |
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| 21:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | The drawback of this is that the C module and corresponding Lua modules, being written in C, are orders of magnitude faster. |
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| 21:20 | < Vorntastic> | Today's awesome result: infinite scroll. |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | ... I take back my earlier comment, the confused email found a significant parser bug that's been present in Ophis for ten years |
| 21:35 | < Vorntastic> | Ouch. What happened? |
| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | THey were trying to run Turbo Assembler source through Ophis, which doesn't work. |
| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | However, it turns out that trying to parse arithmetic operators as character constants baffles the lexer. |
| 21:38 | < abudhabi> | My coworker gave me the cable I needed! |
| 21:38 | < abudhabi> | Now I have four screens on my desk. |
| 21:38 | < abudhabi> | A fifth is incoming in the mail. |
| 21:39 | <@celticminstrel> | Infinite scroll? |
| 21:39 | < abudhabi> | I pity my inferiorly monitored brethren, but I cannot respect them. :V |
| 21:41 | | * celticminstrel has two screens. |
| 21:41 | <@celticminstrel> | My computer can't support more than that though. |
| 21:41 | <@celticminstrel> | Or my graphics card can't, I guess. |
| 21:45 | < abudhabi> | Hmm. How do I make it so that Win7 treats these monitors like one? |
| 21:49 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't think Windows quite understands multiple monitors without additional software? |
| 21:50 | < Vorntastic> | Infinite scroll: you know how on, like, facebook or twitter, if you get to the bottom of the page, it fetches more stuff to read? That. |
| 21:50 | <&McMartin> | celticminstrel: It's on by default in basically every laptop ever if so |
| 21:55 | < Vorntastic> | Multimonitor support has been in windows for quite a while. |
| 21:55 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 22:04 | < abudhabi> | I want to play CK2 on both screens. Wondering how to effectuate that. |
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| 22:11 | <@celticminstrel> | CK2? |
| 22:11 | | * celticminstrel thinks of Commander Keen. |
| 22:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Somehow I doubt that's what you mean though... |
| 22:11 | < abudhabi> | Crusader Kings 2. |
| 22:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Aha. |
| 22:14 | | * jerith conquers Persia. |
| 22:16 | | * TheWatcher attempts to recruit one of his best students as a #code member, will have to see if he turns up here |
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| --- Log closed Fri Jan 30 00:00:02 2015 |