| --- Log opened Wed Jan 14 00:00:53 2015 |
| --- Day changed Wed Jan 14 2015 |
| 00:00 | < Reiv> | yeah I see the problem gimmie a min |
| 00:01 | < Reiv> | It's a scoping issue I'm rearranging the brackets :P |
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| 00:16 | <~Vornicus> | 'cause in the both-in-one-record method you end up grabbing the game regions and comparing but you have to do it for both columns |
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| 00:20 | < Reiv> | right, give me a moment |
| 00:20 | < Reiv> | I got my scoping wrong and am doing it the other way round |
| 00:21 | < Reiv> | ... oh duh these are all innerj oins what the fuck am I doing |
| 00:22 | < Reiv> | I don't need a subquery at all do I, that makes it... hm |
| 00:23 | < Reiv> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/675 |
| 00:24 | < Reiv> | That makes it ordered |
| 00:24 | < Reiv> | Or does it |
| 00:25 | < Reiv> | I'd just test it >_> |
| 00:26 | < Reiv> | (In the ideal world, I'd be able to apply rules to the first table in the join instead of leaving them in the WHERE. Ah well.) |
| 00:32 | | * Vornicus examines this query, tries to figure out what table fits this and the data |
| 00:35 | <~Vornicus> | I have: city, which has cityID and regionID fk region; city_link, with cityID and linkID, link, with linkID and cost |
| 00:37 | < Reiv> | city & city_link |
| 00:37 | < Reiv> | er wait hm |
| 00:37 | < Reiv> | yes that's right |
| 00:37 | < Reiv> | then join link to it to get the costs |
| 00:40 | <~Vornicus> | But... no, this makes no sense to me |
| 00:43 | <~Vornicus> | I have: game_region as gr join city as c on gr.regionID=c.regionID join city_link as cl on c.cityID = cl.cityID where gr.gameID = %gameID |
| 00:44 | <~Vornicus> | This is one thing; now i need to link it with the exact same thing on the other side but I don't see how without duplicating the whole structure |
| 00:44 | <~Vornicus> | And this is the problem I've been having |
| 00:54 | < Reiv> | exact same thing on the other side? |
| 00:57 | <~Vornicus> | Yes, then it would go ...join link as l on cl.linkID = l.linkID join city_link as clB on l.linkID = clB.linkID join city as cB on clB.cityID = cB.cityID join game_region as grB on cB.regionID = grB.regionID |
| 00:57 | <~Vornicus> | and then the where would expand to where gr.gameID = %gameID and grB.gameID = %gameID |
| 00:57 | <@celticminstrel> | ...huh. I just typo'd my path for cd and yet it changed to the directory I wanted. |
| 00:59 | <~Vornicus> | so I've got a seven-table join, but two sets of three tables are set together in the same way and would create the same actual |
| 01:01 | <~Vornicus> | basically gr, c, and cl combine to make the same thingy as grB, cB, and clB, and then those two are linked together, and your thing doesn't appear to do anything with that? |
| 01:06 | <~Vornicus> | I can't make head nor tail of yours; I don't have things named start & end |
| 01:11 | <~Vornicus> | oh, I sort of see it but |
| 01:12 | <~Vornicus> | no, this doesn't actually do it; the second city never gets checked for its region |
| 01:15 | < Reiv> | Oh, good point |
| 01:16 | < Reiv> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/676 |
| 01:16 | < Reiv> | Sorry 'bout that |
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| 01:36 | <~Vornicus> | Still befuddling me |
| 01:37 | <~Vornicus> | That one goes "both ends of the link are the same city" |
| 01:40 | < Reiv> | ... oh, good point |
| 01:40 | < Reiv> | (I tend to write code iteratively; figuring out the mistakes as I go) |
| 01:40 | < Reiv> | (So this is pretty hard on my poor brain at 2.30pm in the afternoon) |
| 01:41 | < Reiv> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/677 |
| 01:42 | < Reiv> | While the restrictions are getting longer, the aim is that you do this once in this subquery, and you get a list of all the connections you then use freely elsewhere without endless filterings |
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| 01:44 | <~Vornicus> | That matches no rows |
| 01:45 | < Reiv> | really? |
| 01:45 | | * Reiv scratches head |
| 01:45 | < Reiv> | You're matching key to key in the self join, right |
| 01:45 | <~Vornicus> | Yes. In each case so far you've been getting *one* city |
| 01:45 | < Reiv> | SEATTLE 17 BOISE 17, right? |
| 01:45 | <~Vornicus> | SEATTLE 17 |
| 01:45 | < Reiv> | You should be joining on the 17, right? |
| 01:46 | <~Vornicus> | You are, but then you're checking end's city against the *one* city |
| 01:46 | < Reiv> | You should have two rows that have 17 written in them though, right? |
| 01:46 | <~Vornicus> | Yes, but |
| 01:46 | <~Vornicus> | You're only getting one city |
| 01:46 | < Reiv> | That's what's bugging me |
| 01:47 | < Reiv> | A naieve join on that key from SEATTLE 17 should be returning SEATTLE 17 and BOISE 17 |
| 01:47 | <~Vornicus> | Without conditions you're doing a cross join here: city, city_link as start, city_link as end |
| 01:47 | <~Vornicus> | One city in each row. |
| 01:48 | <~Vornicus> | After this I have, just, nw seattle 17 boise |
| 01:48 | < Reiv> | You should be getting boise 17 seattle as well |
| 01:48 | <~Vornicus> | Or, to make one that actually messes up: sw santafe 18 houston |
| 01:48 | < Reiv> | I wonder what I've done wrong |
| 01:48 | < Reiv> | Do you have INSERT statements that make this data up? |
| 01:49 | <~Vornicus> | Then I've filtered -- but I don't check that houston is in a region I care about |
| 01:49 | < Reiv> | If I have a couple of tables I can write code way more effectively >_> |
| 01:49 | <~Vornicus> | Give me a few minutes to gnaw the data and you'll have them |
| 01:50 | < Reiv> | danke kindly |
| 01:50 | < Reiv> | I will... gah, I'll have to do this in SQL Server won't I ;_; |
| 01:50 | < Reiv> | Stupid needing temporary tables. |
| 02:07 | <~Vornicus> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/678 42 cities, 86 links, for a total of 300 rows in 3 tables. Beware, I may have messed up some syntax, especially in the creates |
| 02:08 | <~Vornicus> | (which I do not typically write by hand) |
| 02:16 | < Reiv> | fantastic, got 'em up and running |
| 02:16 | < Reiv> | Now let's se what I've done stupid. |
| 02:23 | <~Vornicus> | The goal here is to, when Blue is in the allowed regions and Red is not, santa fe-houston and houston-santa fe are both out. |
| 02:27 | < Reiv> | that's a little more complex than the issue I was solving |
| 02:28 | < Reiv> | I was solving for "I am looking at santa fe, who is adjacent" |
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| 02:32 | <~Vornicus> | This would be a simple self-join if the target weren't complicated through filters; but because the filters and other joins are there, I don't know how one would get the correct filters without placing them twice, which makes me grumpy. |
| 02:32 | <~Vornicus> | The goal is to self-join a hunk that I've built with joins and filters. |
| 02:38 | < Reiv> | ... this code is different to what I assumed, hang on |
| 02:38 | < Reiv> | oh wait no getting it now |
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| 02:44 | < Reiv> | ... duh |
| 02:44 | < Reiv> | I do need a subquery after all, gosh that was thick of me |
| 02:46 | < Reiv> | oh, I get the problem |
| 02:47 | < Reiv> | And I get why you need to run the criteria twice |
| 02:47 | < Reiv> | And I get why that is painful, yes indeed |
| 02:47 | < Reiv> | hmm |
| 02:48 | < Reiv> | ... but then, they're all in the same table to start with, so surely we can, hn |
| 02:49 | < Reiv> | But of course we want data out of the City column to start with too, don't we. |
| 02:49 | < Reiv> | So I can't do it in a WHERE. |
| 02:50 | | * Reiv muses. |
| 02:50 | < Reiv> | Give me a little bit on this one, it requires ponderance |
| 02:50 | < Reiv> | the structure is good, though. |
| 02:50 | < Reiv> | what language are you doing all this in, in the end? |
| 03:00 | <~Vornicus> | Python/someSQL that I haven't picked yet but my active dialects are sqlite and mysql |
| 03:02 | < Reiv> | aha |
| 03:02 | < Reiv> | haaaaaang on |
| 03:02 | < Reiv> | Oh yes indeed |
| 03:02 | < Reiv> | That is the problem right there isn't it, how to fix you |
| 03:04 | <~Vornicus> | (understand of course that the cityname is neither actually the primary key nor actually necessary to come out of the graph here; it's just what I had available in my spreadsheet) |
| 03:10 | < Reiv> | no that's fine |
| 03:10 | < Reiv> | er, you don't want it to come out of the graph? |
| 03:11 | <~Vornicus> | the cityname isn't as important as the ID |
| 03:11 | | * Reiv frowns, invokes the Old Magic. |
| 03:11 | <~Vornicus> | but I mean |
| 03:14 | < Reiv> | let's see can I remember how to even do this |
| 03:17 | | * Reiv twitches. Oh, of /course/. |
| 03:17 | < Reiv> | Motherfuckin' cartesians |
| 03:17 | < Reiv> | Be the cartesian I want, not the cartesian I told you to be! |
| 03:18 | <&Derakon> | Cartesia is the worst country~ |
| 03:18 | <&Derakon> | I much prefer Noneuclidia. |
| 03:18 | < Reiv> | Okay, let's see. |
| 03:19 | < Reiv> | We want to restrict the list of joinables down, *then* do the selfjoins among that list. |
| 03:20 | < Reiv> | On the bright side, we can ... oh, we can use the joinID to get back up |
| 03:20 | < Reiv> | hm |
| 03:20 | < Reiv> | Okaaaay |
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| 03:23 | < Reiv> | Oh of course |
| 03:23 | < Reiv> | hm |
| 03:23 | < Reiv> | That's a limitation in SQL I think, so let's see |
| 03:23 | < Reiv> | Vornicus: Can your language handle temporary tables? |
| 03:23 | < Reiv> | If so, this becomes trivial. If not, this remains a PITA. |
| 03:23 | <~Vornicus> | I know My can |
| 03:24 | < Reiv> | #table for the syntax? |
| 03:24 | <~Vornicus> | I haven't tried it in Lite, but I assume so, one moment |
| 03:24 | < Reiv> | The alternative is using a WITH, but that tends to be more language-fussy |
| 03:24 | <~Vornicus> | But if we're sitting here going "temporary tables" then I can solve that |
| 03:33 | <~Vornicus> | 'course, since I'd be throwing views around like they're candy, technically this guy is pretty view-a-licious too, though I don't know how it'd strategize a self-join |
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| 03:35 | < Reiv> | haha |
| 03:35 | < Reiv> | pretty easy |
| 03:35 | < Reiv> | Well, given the constraints of not writing the rules twice, while joining twice, temporary table is probably the best way to go. http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/679 |
| 03:36 | < Reiv> | A WITH statement would do near-identical; anything else requires writing the rule twice because you have to explicitly state which column you're comparing against each time. |
| 03:36 | < Reiv> | So you can't go "WHERE A OR B = 'Bob' or whatever". |
| 03:38 | < Reiv> | Else you end up with a cartesian, and you can't restrict both sides simultaneously on one rule |
| 03:38 | < Reiv> | So, uh, temp table and it's trivial. |
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| 10:47 | <@Azash> | https://github.com/ExPHAT/twitter-sort |
| 10:49 | <@TheWatcher> | ... wat |
| 10:57 | < Julius> | Seconded. |
| 10:59 | <@gnolam> | Hah |
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| 11:30 | | * Julius blames HTH. |
| 11:31 | | * HTH accepts the blame |
| 11:33 | | * Tarinaky blames Al Gore. |
| 11:33 | < Julius> | That's a new one. |
| 11:33 | <@Tarinaky> | He invented the internet. Therefore without him we wouldn't have 4chan. |
| 11:34 | <@Tarinaky> | Or if you're British you can blame Tim Berners(sp?) Lee instead. |
| 11:34 | <@Tarinaky> | With the same logic. |
| 11:35 | < Julius> | I blame Charlemagne. |
| 11:36 | <@Tarinaky> | That only works if you blame Germany for WW1. |
| 11:36 | <@Tarinaky> | What happens if you blame Russian internal conflict - and by extension the war they lost with the Japanese? |
| 11:40 | < Julius> | I blame you for this line of conversation. |
| 11:42 | <@Tarinaky> | I blame Erik. |
| 11:43 | | * TheWatcher eyes you all |
| 11:43 | <@TheWatcher> | You have no sense of tradition, do you? |
| 11:43 | <@TheWatcher> | I blame Syloq. |
| 11:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Tradition? |
| 11:49 | < Julius> | There, there, grampa. |
| 11:49 | | * TheWatcher waves his cane |
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| 11:54 | < Julius> | Actually, how old are you? I always imagined you as some sort of greybeard Perl wizard. |
| 11:54 | <@Tamber> | The latter part of that soon gives you the former. |
| 11:55 | <@Tamber> | It's all the sigils, and the archives of atrocities that must be opened when the stars are in alignment, y'see. |
| 11:55 | <@TheWatcher> | Julius: it depends who you ask, but going off my brith certificate, 38. |
| 11:56 | < Julius> | Not quite *grey*beard, then. :P |
| 11:57 | <@TheWatcher> | I believe the term is "salt-and-pepper" >.> |
| 11:58 | <@Tamber> | "...crunchy, and good with ketchup." |
| 11:58 | <@Tamber> | ...no, wait, I'm confusing my abominations, I think. |
| 12:01 | <@Azash> | 11:49 <@TheWatcher> ... wat |
| 12:01 | <@Azash> | Quite clearly, it solves the sorting problem in O(1)! |
| 12:02 | | * Julius feeds Azash into his own O-function. |
| 12:02 | | * Tarinaky glares |
| 12:02 | <@Tarinaky> | So I have a wstringstream object. |
| 12:03 | <@Tarinaky> | And I want to concatenate some UTF16 c-strings, represented by wchar_t* |
| 12:03 | <@Tarinaky> | Since wstringstream is to wchar_t what stringstream is to char |
| 12:03 | <@Azash> | I miss the days of being a freshman and being stupid and trying to figure out a linear-time sorting algorithm with a friend of mine |
| 12:03 | <@Tarinaky> | I assumed I could just foo << bar |
| 12:03 | <@Tarinaky> | But apparently wchar_t is an illegal right operand type? |
| 12:04 | <@Tarinaky> | wchar_t* |
| 12:04 | <@Tarinaky> | What am I missing? |
| 12:04 | <@Azash> | wstringstream might not have that operator overloaded |
| 12:04 | <@Tarinaky> | I'd really rather not do C string copies. |
| 12:04 | <@Tarinaky> | When I just want to put quote marks around a path name. |
| 12:04 | <@Tarinaky> | (Windows uses UTF16 file names because it makes Jesus cry :( ) |
| 12:05 | <@Azash> | According to SO, it should |
| 12:05 | <@Azash> | Allow using <<, I mean |
| 12:05 | <@Tarinaky> | Yeah |
| 12:05 | <@Azash> | What is the exact error |
| 12:05 | <@Tarinaky> | '<<' : illegal, right operand has type 'wchar_t *' |
| 12:07 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh wait |
| 12:07 | <@Tarinaky> | I might be doing a sillt |
| 12:08 | <@Tarinaky> | I forgot to #include <sstream> |
| 12:12 | <@Azash> | Oops |
| 12:17 | <@Tarinaky> | Right, time for the CI gods to let me know if I can go to lunch yet |
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| 13:56 | < Julius> | Hmmm. HTML/JSP/Java. Right now, I have a form that has a certain dropdown list, of numbers, which tell me how many table rows I need to create. This works fine, but is rather limited. I would like to give the user an alternative to write in their own, comma-separated list of options. |
| 13:58 | < Julius> | I also want to keep the numeric list too. |
| 13:58 | < Julius> | My first problem is how to make it look reasonably pretty. I am thinking of some kind of Javascript to watch over some checkbox, which'll define which of the two fields, the list or the text field, will be shown to the user at any given time. |
| 13:58 | < Julius> | This sane? |
| 13:59 | < Syka> | Julius: maybe use select2? |
| 13:59 | < Syka> | Julius: it has "tag" support (eg. you type in "2, 3" and it turns it into [2, 3]) |
| 13:59 | < Julius> | What's a select2? |
| 13:59 | <@TheWatcher> | jquery replacement for select boxes |
| 14:00 | < Syka> | Julius: https://select2.github.io/ |
| 14:00 | < Julius> | Hmm. OK. We already use jQuery, too. |
| 14:00 | < Syka> | http://select2.github.io/select2/ rather |
| 14:00 | < Syka> | 3.5 is what you want for the now |
| 14:01 | < Julius> | This looks pretty good. |
| 14:01 | < Julius> | Does it support Stripes? |
| 14:01 | < Syka> | Julius: look under "auto tokenization" |
| 14:01 | < Syka> | what's a stripes |
| 14:01 | < Syka> | :P |
| 14:01 | < Julius> | An obscure Java web framework. |
| 14:02 | < Syka> | Julius: it's something you do in JS, and then when you POST it sends it as values like any other select box |
| 14:02 | < Julius> | It's so obscure that 95% of the traffic in the official chatroom is people mistaking it for Stripe, the Paypal competitor. |
| 14:02 | < Syka> | Julius: that is, it's "agnostic", i guess |
| 14:03 | < Julius> | Hmmm. |
| 14:04 | < Julius> | I suppose that if the data consists of one item and that item is parsable into a number that fits into the values accepted by the box I have now, it would simply get parsed as that, and otherwise, the elements would be treated as just that. |
| 14:06 | | * TheWatcher args |
| 14:07 | <@TheWatcher> | Apparently 'initialise' != 'initialize' |
| 14:08 | | * TheWatcher shakesfist at the Americans |
| 14:08 | <@Tarinaky> | There really needs to be a pseudoimport for languages like python etc... that makes symbols Americanisation insensitive |
| 14:08 | <@Tarinaky> | from __english__ import american to convert everything implicitly into yankee: with initialize, and color etc... |
| 14:09 | <@Tarinaky> | And from __english__ import correct_spelling_you_yank_bastards to convert everything implicitly to initialise and colour. |
| 14:09 | <@Tarinaky> | ;) |
| 14:16 | < Julius> | English is awful. |
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| 15:31 | <@Tarinaky> | So. The thought occurs. Are there any specific gotchas for working with Modern OpenGL with Modern C++? |
| 15:32 | <@Tarinaky> | Most the instructional material for modern OpenGL I've seen has been for old-school C++. |
| 15:32 | <@Tarinaky> | It's unclear how much of this is for performance vs neckbeardy reasons |
| 15:35 | <@Tamber> | Are you sure it's not just because they've not caught up with modern C++ yet? |
| 15:35 | <@Tarinaky> | That's neckbeardy reasons. |
| 15:35 | <@Tamber> | Ah, righto~ |
| 15:35 | <@Tarinaky> | We've always done A using X. |
| 15:35 | <@Tarinaky> | Therefore the best way to do A is using X. |
| 15:36 | <@Tamber> | hehehe |
| 15:36 | <@Tamber> | I was thinking more along the lines of "...C++ updated?" |
| 15:38 | <@Tarinaky> | Well, I only really know/have known two people who're professional gamedevs with engine experience. |
| 15:38 | <@Tarinaky> | And one of them swore by only using C with Objects. |
| 15:38 | < Syka> | Tarinaky: what is modern C++ |
| 15:38 | <@Tarinaky> | And ignoring all of that fancy inheritance nonsense. |
| 15:38 | <@Tamber> | Tarinaky: ...the other swore *at* only using C? :p |
| 15:38 | < Syka> | i am not sure that MSVC++ supports C++11 or whatever |
| 15:38 | <@Tarinaky> | And the other one jumped out of the industry about 2 console generations ago |
| 15:39 | <@Tarinaky> | At which point C++11 was still called C++0x... and the x was still in base 10. |
| 15:39 | < Syka> | heh |
| 15:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Syka: Depends on which version of MSVC. |
| 15:39 | < Syka> | yeah i think it's that there's no "reason" to |
| 15:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Syka: I think 2012 and 2013 do. |
| 15:40 | < Syka> | C++11 is nicer |
| 15:40 | <@Tarinaky> | Syka: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh279654.aspx |
| 15:40 | < Syka> | but it's not like... C++11 will fix all your problems |
| 15:42 | <@Tarinaky> | Well, no. |
| 15:43 | < Syka> | so i think it's more "nobody's written a definitive reference yet" |
| 15:43 | <@Tarinaky> | But "oh my God why is expressing simple concepts so much work why do I have to do string concatenation as memory copying who's fault is this" is a big problem |
| 15:44 | <@Tarinaky> | When, you know... I just want to add "foo" + "bar" and get "foobar" and forget about the memory until it matters >.> |
| 15:48 | <@celticminstrel> | MSVC does support C++11. |
| 15:48 | <@celticminstrel> | Though I think it was missing a few features still as of 2013. |
| 15:48 | <@Tarinaky> | I suppose it's more correct to say C++0x for an incomplete implementation of C++11? |
| 15:48 | <@celticminstrel> | ...oh, someone linked the list. |
| 15:49 | <@celticminstrel> | I think my clang still doesn't support literal operators. |
| 15:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Point. |
| 15:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Though that's probably because my clang is old. |
| 15:54 | <@celticminstrel> | MSVC doesn't support them either. |
| 15:54 | < Syka> | it's like nobody cares about standards |
| 15:55 | <@Tarinaky> | It's like compiler implementation is a nontrivial problem almost as large as any other major software endevour. |
| 15:55 | <@Tarinaky> | With all the same project management issues. |
| 15:55 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, clang claims to support all of C++11 already. |
| 15:55 | < Syka> | oh yes, i know about project management issues |
| 15:56 | <@Tarinaky> | Not supporting the full set of latest features is a very different thing to making up your own standards :P |
| 15:56 | | * Syka got fired today for complaining about them :D |
| 15:56 | <@Tarinaky> | :( |
| 15:56 | < Syka> | they got angry at me for complaining publicly after i'd complained privately for six months with nothing done |
| 15:57 | <@Tarinaky> | Well yes. I can see why they might. |
| 15:58 | < Syka> | my complaints weren't really grounds, but i was on the losing side of office politics |
| 15:59 | < Syka> | *giant shrug* |
| 16:00 | < Syka> | so any excuse to get rid of the girl taking issue with the official "features before security fixes" policy |
| 16:00 | <@Tarinaky> | Like I said at the time. As long as there isn't a legal requirement involved then it's the company's money to mismanage. |
| 16:01 | < Syka> | i'm fairly sure "wilful negligence" is a legal requirement :/ |
| 16:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Then you CC in legal and keep the grievance internal to the company. |
| 16:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Legal will be more accutely aware than anyone that if there's a legal requirement that needs to be met - and email from a software developer saying we aren't meeting that legal requirement - will not play well in court when it comes time to set any punitive fees. |
| 16:03 | <@Tarinaky> | 8a |
| 16:03 | <@Tarinaky> | *an |
| 16:03 | <@Tarinaky> | And then it becomes legal's problem |
| 16:03 | < Syka> | anyway, i'm just going to sit and watch them miss their release date |
| 16:04 | < Syka> | lesson learned: private enterprise is just as bad as public sector |
| 16:05 | <@Tarinaky> | I suggest you take this lesson instead: Criticise in private, praise in public. |
| 16:07 | < Syka> | that's a nice lesson |
| 16:08 | < Syka> | i should disregard my own mental well being for my employer |
| 16:08 | < Syka> | notes |
| 16:08 | < Syka> | noted* |
| 16:08 | <@Tarinaky> | The other one is: "Let people have enough rope to hang themselves." |
| 16:08 | <@Tarinaky> | You shouldn't be deriving your mental well being from your job. |
| 16:08 | <@Tarinaky> | If your professional 'pride' is having that kind of an effect on your mental state you need to take stock of your life. |
| 16:11 | < Syka> | Tarinaky: if only it was that easy, to just turn off things which affected my mental state |
| 16:13 | < Syka> | after all, to get rid of depression, you just need to be not sad! |
| 16:13 | < Syka> | thankyou for trivialising the metrics upon which I gauge my quality of life |
| 16:17 | <@Tamber> | Y'know, that's the thing I think sucks the most. |
| 16:17 | <@Tamber> | So many places seem to shit on folk who /actually care/, until it burns them out into the kinds of people who just do the bare minimum to get by. Because clearly a barely-functional little cog is better than someone who takes pride in their job~ |
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| 16:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: humans don't actually work like that. |
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| 20:28 | <@Tarinaky> | Tamber: You can take pride without extending yourself past your remit to give a shit. |
| 20:28 | <@Tamber> | heh. |
| 20:28 | <@Tarinaky> | That's like... a fundamental neccessity to be able to work in any team ever. |
| 20:29 | <@Tarinaky> | Is you have to accept that you've got to do the best job possible of the little piece of the puzzle that's yours. |
| 20:29 | <@Tarinaky> | Even if your coworkers are going to stuff up their piece of the puzzle you can offer help but ultimately you can't and shouldn't do it for them. |
| 20:30 | <@Tamber> | And this is why so much stuff is utter shit. |
| 20:30 | <@Tarinaky> | If you're doing software development, don't try to project manage. If you're doing project management, don't try to software develop. |
| 20:30 | <@Tamber> | That is not the same argument~ |
| 20:31 | <@Tarinaky> | That's pretty much what Syka was doing though. Prioritisation of User Stories and Defects is project management. |
| 20:34 | <@Tamber> | Heh. |
| 20:38 | <@Tarinaky> | But yeah. Burnout is bad |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jan 15 00:00:09 2015 |