| --- Log opened Tue Jan 06 00:00:36 2015 |
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| --- Log opened Tue Jan 06 07:16:19 2015 |
| 07:16 | | TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-ksqup0.co.uk] has joined #code |
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| 07:40 | < Erik> | I have just been informed that my project will use Eclipse, Subversion, Jenkins, JIRA, Nexus, Crucible, Fishere, Sonar, JUnit, DBUnit, SoapUI, FindBugs, PMD, Checkstyle, Selenium, Cobertura, HP WebInspect, HP LoadRunner, Performance Center, TLA, ETLA, and VLTLA for unit testing and system testing. |
| 07:40 | < Erik> | Since it is an agile project there is no absolute distinction between unit test tools and system test tools. |
| 07:43 | <&McMartin> | At least they have remembered that system tests exist |
| 07:43 | < Erik> | How many of these are even test tools? And is the more reasonable conclusion here a) I'm sitting on the tip of a giant iceberg of a project where all these will seriously be used, or b) some project manager threw every tool he'd heard of into a list and said "We'll be using these" ? |
| 07:44 | <&McMartin> | I assume the last three were jokes |
| 07:44 | <&McMartin> | FindBugs is IIRC a superlint, that'll synergize with basically everything |
| 07:45 | <&McMartin> | And there's only one each of IDE and VCS~ |
| 07:45 | < Erik> | Yes, the last three were jokes about the list length. |
| 07:45 | < Erik> | (For those unfamiliar with them: Three Letter Acronym, Extended Three Letter Acronym and Very Long Three Letter Acronym) |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | That list makes a lot more sense if you take the things that look like repeats and read them as "any of these things will be legal" |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | That is, teams are permitted to use JUnit or DBUnit to run their unit tests |
| 07:48 | < Erik> | That would make sense. |
| 07:51 | <&McMartin> | From the things on that list that I actually recognize or have worked with, (a) seems at least as likely as (b), but I also expect that nobody but the master solution architect is going to need to actually directly deal with all of them |
| 07:51 | <&McMartin> | And even they might not, for, e.g., Performance Center |
| 07:52 | <&McMartin> | I say this because of the things on that list that I recognize, no two of them solve the same problem |
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| 09:59 | <@froztbyte> | same here |
| 09:59 | <@froztbyte> | also depends on which extent you're using each to |
| 10:04 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 10:07 | < Erik> | No extent is specified beyond "for unit testing and system testing" yet, so I'm growing optimistic. |
| 10:10 | <@Tarinaky> | Erik, you have run FATE (Dresden) before: aye? |
| 10:14 | < abudhabi> | He's running it today. |
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| 10:43 | < Syka> | Erik: i think you're fucked |
| 10:44 | < Syka> | :) |
| 10:44 | < Erik> | Tarinaky: Yes. |
| 10:44 | < Erik> | Syka: For any reason in particular? |
| 10:44 | < Syka> | Erik: jenkins super sucks, JIRA is the worst pile of shit known to man, and Subversion is a relic of the early 2000s |
| 10:45 | < Erik> | Oh. Just outdated tools, that doesn't sound so bad. |
| 10:46 | < Erik> | And hopefully I won't even have to use them seeing as... wait a moment. |
| 10:47 | < Erik> | That's funny, come to think of it. My part on this project has been using a tool that *isn't* on the list. |
| 10:47 | <&McMartin> | Eclipse is mostly for Java, which is a relic of the mid-1990s~ |
| 10:47 | <&McMartin> | ("What about C++?" "Hasn't been written yet. Maybe by 2020.") |
| 10:47 | <&McMartin> | That said |
| 10:48 | <&McMartin> | Subversion as of 1.7 is merely Probably Not What You Wanted as opposed to actively painful |
| 10:49 | < Syka> | svnyeah |
| 10:49 | < Syka> | is... meh |
| 10:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Syka: 2000s? Subversion is a strained, unsucessful attempt to fix the deficiencies of CVS, which itself was a kludgy implementation of concurrency for RCS, which was a relic of the 80s, which was written as an alternative, open version of SCCS from the 70s. |
| 10:49 | <&McMartin> | I'd say it actually *quite successfully* solved the two primary deficiencies of CVS. |
| 10:51 | <&McMartin> | Which is to say, it knows about directories, and it can maintain a coherent history of the entire repository. |
| 10:51 | <&McMartin> | It is *too good* at the latter, which is why you cannot map modern DVCS workflows onto it cleanly. |
| 10:52 | < Syka> | TheWatcher: well, okay, current svn is a relic of the early 2000s |
| 10:52 | < Syka> | because current svn doesn't completely suck infinite butts |
| 10:52 | < Syka> | it just... is meh |
| 10:52 | < Erik> | Can it even? |
| 10:52 | < Syka> | like, git-svn is nicer, it's that bad |
| 10:53 | < Syka> | most of the twisted devs use git-svn because svn is just *meh* to use |
| 10:53 | <&McMartin> | git-svn is 'central wants a coherent history, I want freedom to experiment' |
| 10:53 | < Syka> | also, jenkins fucking sucks |
| 10:53 | < Syka> | fucking sucky jenkins shit |
| 10:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Jenkins is pain, yes. |
| 10:53 | < Syka> | but i use python |
| 10:53 | < Syka> | there's a bit of tooling for java apps |
| 10:53 | < Syka> | but for python it's like, hey, want to do anything other than run something and return 0 or 1? fuck you |
| 10:53 | <&McMartin> | (SVN didn't stop sucking until the *late* aughts, speaking as someone who's been using it continuously since 2004) |
| 10:54 | < Syka> | git is love |
| 10:54 | <&McMartin> | (I date this to 1.7, when they finally put one, single, solitary .svn directory at the top of your checkout and NOWHERE FUCKING ELSE) |
| 10:54 | < Syka> | even if it's a bit average in some areas |
| 10:54 | < Syka> | McMartin: oh yes |
| 10:54 | < Syka> | i remember .svns everywhere |
| 10:54 | <&McMartin> | Still better than CVS~ |
| 10:54 | < Syka> | so when i moved a project to git it was *infinite crying* |
| 10:55 | < Syka> | anyway did i mention my manager told me "features before security fixes" yesterday in the meeting |
| 10:55 | < Syka> | as to why we're not moving to django 1.7 until 1.6 is juuuust about to be EOL'd and 1.8 is about to be released |
| 10:55 | <&McMartin> | I've never really had trouble with svn->git migrations except for two aspects |
| 10:55 | <@TheWatcher> | I have some code here from the late 90s, CVS directories everywhere >.< |
| 10:56 | < Syka> | and he "can't go to the board of directors and say we've pushed back the release a month for a security fix" |
| 10:56 | < Syka> | even though I gave a time estimate of a day of my effort :/ |
| 10:56 | <&McMartin> | (a) code that wanted the commit number to be usable as a free monotonic version increase, instead of rolling that in on the side |
| 10:56 | <&McMartin> | (b) maintaining an evolving store of binaries for dependencies so that you don't need something like maven |
| 10:56 | < Syka> | so yeah! today i have been very sad, and this is how i imagine the authors of jira feel |
| 10:57 | < Erik> | "The specifications of the test environments will be updated continuously." Um. |
| 10:57 | < Erik> | Just, um. |
| 10:58 | < Erik> | This sounds like it might be a very good thing if it means "fast improvement cycle and the documentation won't be ages out of date". |
| 10:59 | < Syka> | i think it means you'll be targeting rolling versions |
| 11:00 | < Syka> | ie. your test-env will have latest versions of things |
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| 11:44 | <@Tarinaky> | So. Ruby with WIN32OLE |
| 11:44 | <@Tarinaky> | In irb I get my OLE object and call ole_methods to get a list of OLE methods. |
| 11:44 | <@Tarinaky> | It lists Release in ole_methods |
| 11:45 | <@Tarinaky> | But when I try to call a.Release() it dies on me with "unknown property or method" |
| 11:53 | <@Tarinaky> | ole_method('Release') returns an WIN32OLE_METHOD object so it /should/ exist! |
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| 18:02 | | * Derakon mutters at Java. |
| 18:02 | <&Derakon> | "cannot find symbol: constructor LinkButton(org.micromanager.imagedisplay.link.SettingsLinker,org.micromanager.ap i.display.DisplayWindow)" |
| 18:02 | <&Derakon> | Meanwhile, the constructor for LinkButton is "public LinkButton(final SettingsLinker linker, final DisplayWindow display)" |
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| 18:27 | <&Derakon> | ...oh, I hadn't imported LinkButton in that context. Stupid Java compiler. |
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| 22:03 | <@gnolam> | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6rL0ZMCEAAvb9n.jpg |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jan 07 00:00:19 2015 |