| --- Log opened Wed Dec 17 00:00:16 2014 |
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| 03:22 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm getting the impression that Boost utterly fails at documentation. |
| 03:25 | <@celticminstrel> | Even on a so-called "reference" page, it seems to be difficult (sometimes impossible) to locate basic, essential things like "explanations of the template parameters", "which file needs to be included", or "what namespace it's nested in". |
| 03:31 | <@celticminstrel> | ...also, my XML data clearly says 1400, so why is it loading as 400. |
| 03:32 | | * celticminstrel probably just did something stupid in initial processing. |
| 03:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah, yup. |
| 03:34 | <@celticminstrel> | For some reason it seems that the space allocated to text is no longer enough... |
| 03:34 | <@celticminstrel> | ...ah, my newline stripping function clearly isn't working. >_> |
| 03:41 | <@celticminstrel> | I probably shouldn't rely on a string's end() iterator pointing to a null terminator... |
| 04:07 | <@celticminstrel> | ...bah, std::numeric_limits::max() is not marked constexpr. |
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| 04:21 | <@celticminstrel> | I want to do something that could be described as inverting alpha blending. |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | Using GIMP. |
| 04:22 | <@celticminstrel> | Something like subtracting image A from image B to produce a result that, when alpha-blended with image A, reproduces image B. |
| 04:29 | | * Vornicus examines the math |
| 04:29 | <~Vornicus> | Does B have an extant alpha channel? If not the calculations are simplified. |
| 04:29 | <@celticminstrel> | Neither have an alpha channel to start with. |
| 04:30 | <~Vornicus> | Um |
| 04:30 | <~Vornicus> | How do you intend on alpha compositing A on there meaningfully then |
| 04:30 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay, it would be more accurate to say that they have one which is fully opaque, I guess. |
| 04:32 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, that's -- -- how do I put this |
| 04:32 | <~Vornicus> | How are you alpha-blending A onto B if A has an alpha channel of 0 |
| 04:32 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not doing any alpha-blending with A and B. |
| 04:33 | <@celticminstrel> | I want to do alpha blending with C, where C is somehow obtained by subtracting A from B. |
| 04:33 | <~Vornicus> | Oh, I see now |
| 04:33 | <@celticminstrel> | And B would be the base that it's blended with. |
| 04:33 | <~Vornicus> | In simplest form, C is B. |
| 04:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh. |
| 04:34 | <@celticminstrel> | The thing is that A has shadow and lighting effects that I'd like to be able to apply to other bases. |
| 04:34 | <~Vornicus> | If you wish to maximize C's alpha channel, that's another matter. |
| 04:35 | <~Vornicus> | (one moment!) |
| 04:35 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm. |
| 04:36 | <@celticminstrel> | Higher values are more transparent, right? So maximizing sounds like it could work, maybe... |
| 04:36 | | * celticminstrel needs to be able to do it with GIMP though... or ImageMagick would be fine too. |
| 04:37 | <~Vornicus> | ImageMagick, if you know how to use fx (I don't fully yet), can definitely do it. |
| 04:38 | <@celticminstrel> | There are portions of the image that should be forced to remain fully opaque, but I can just copy-paste those portions into the resulting image C, so I don't think I need to worry about that. |
| 04:39 | | * Vornicus does this in a spreadsheet so you can see what he's up to |
| 04:46 | | * celticminstrel waits! |
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| 04:55 | <~Vornicus> | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yDz6tnG6_0a8HW7PiiA4iSvbad6LnT1Taa5eK2HW lB0/edit?usp=sharing there. |
| 04:57 | <~Vornicus> | I do not know if gimp can pull this off; I don't know the filters that are available |
| 04:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Is "computed B" supposed to be the output colour value? |
| 05:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh wait. |
| 05:00 | <@celticminstrel> | It's what you get when combining what you computed back with A. |
| 05:00 | <~Vornicus> | result, with the alpha value, is C. computed B is what you get -- yes |
| 05:01 | <@celticminstrel> | So, the three rows are the three channels? |
| 05:01 | <~Vornicus> | Right. |
| 05:02 | <~Vornicus> | chosen opacity is the least opaque you can make it and still reach B's value; alpha opacity is the smallest *representable* value of alpha that succeeds at this. |
| 05:04 | <@celticminstrel> | I wonder if I can figure out how to stuff this into -fx... |
| 05:04 | <@celticminstrel> | What I read so far implies it operates on one channel at a time. |
| 05:05 | <~Vornicus> | If you can figure this out, you've got imagemagick basically down. fx can do *anything* |
| 05:05 | <@celticminstrel> | I think I can figure it out if I can find a way to reference the other channels... |
| 05:06 | <@celticminstrel> | Not sure though... |
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| 14:07 | <@gnolam> | Man. Misspellings in code bug me way more than they have any right to. |
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| 14:41 | < Vorntastic> | Celmin: if you've been poking at the uncompositing math, one thing: make sure you round instead of truncating the final result calculation. |
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| 15:22 | <@Tarinaky> | What on earth happened while I was away on holiday: petrol prices and unemployment is falling and Russia is in recession. |
| 15:22 | <@Tarinaky> | o.o |
| 15:46 | < abudhabi> | It's not just Russia that's in recession. |
| 15:46 | < abudhabi> | The Norwegian market has been falling for the last two weeks straight. |
| 15:49 | < abudhabi> | The krone has taken a 20% nosedive, which I'm not altogether happy with. |
| 15:50 | <@Tarinaky> | Also, as the resident Polish person here allow me to ask you the following: Pickles in brine are disgusting. WTF is wrong with you people o.o |
| 15:51 | < abudhabi> | Pickles in brine are delicious. But shouldn't be eaten standalone. |
| 15:52 | <@Tarinaky> | They were like eating seawater. |
| 15:52 | < abudhabi> | Meat and potatoes go great with them. I like them on bread, too. |
| 15:52 | <@Tarinaky> | And it was with a salad and some smoked fish |
| 15:52 | <@Tarinaky> | Polish cuisine: meat and potatoes and bread with lard. |
| 15:52 | <@Tarinaky> | s/lard/drippings from the meat/ |
| 15:53 | < abudhabi> | Mmmm. Bread with lard and honey. |
| 15:54 | < abudhabi> | I've never heard of eating pickles with fish. It doesn't seem like a good combo. |
| 15:54 | < abudhabi> | Well, depends on the specific fish. |
| 15:54 | <@Tarinaky> | I like (vinegar+mustard pickled) pickles in my salad. |
| 15:54 | <@Tarinaky> | And I just threw together generic salad from what was in the cupboards to go with the fish. |
| 15:55 | <@Tarinaky> | My partner wanted me to get pickles in brine though, so I thought they meant the pickles from the Polish section. |
| 15:58 | <@Tarinaky> | What they neglected to tell me is that there're different strengths of the brine and the ones I had last time were actually edible >.> |
| 15:58 | <@Tarinaky> | Anyway. That's enough complaining. |
| 16:15 | <@celticminstrel> | When I tell GIMP to convert to indexed, it also destroys transparency (making it binary). Is this a limitation of GIMP or of PNG? |
| 16:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's a limitation of indexed color formats in general. |
| 16:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | Use RGBA PNG instead of indexed PNG if you want non-binary transparency. |
| 16:16 | <@celticminstrel> | It doesn't really make sense to have that limitation, but okay. |
| 16:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...in what way does it not? |
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| 16:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you wanted true alpha in an indexed image, you'd need either two channels per pixel (palette index + alpha), at which point it isn't really indexed anymore, or you'd need an RGBA palette rather than an RGB one (and a much larger palette, at that), which AFAIK is not supported by any indexed image format. |
| 16:19 | <@celticminstrel> | I was thinking the latter. |
| 16:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | For any non-trivial use of transparency that would, I suspect, nuke your palette size so dramatically that you might as well just use an RGBA image format. |
| 16:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which may be why no indexed image formats support it. |
| 16:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | By the time it was something people routinely wanted, PNG existed. |
| 16:21 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, it looks like it works as RGBA, anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter. |
| 17:28 | <@gnolam> | abudhabi: the strange thing is that the Norwegian crown has fallen more than the Swedish crown. |
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| 17:38 | <&McMartin> | Why is that strange? Norway relies more on oil than Sweden does, right? |
| 18:01 | <@gnolam> | Because Norway still has a working government. |
| 18:02 | <@celticminstrel> | ...Sweden doesn't? |
| 18:03 | < abudhabi> | Sweden exports mostly lumber and structural metals, AFAIK. |
| 18:12 | <@ErikMesoy> | Sweden had a government crisis recently. |
| 18:12 | <@ErikMesoy> | TL;DR anti-immigrant party got enough votes to spoil both the standard left-coalition and right-coalition so neither got a majority, minority government formed, minority government didn't get support for its budget, new elections called. |
| 18:14 | <&McMartin> | Just to be clear here, when we say "the crown has fallen more" we don't mean "the government has collapsed more", right, we mean "the currency unit has gotten weaker"? |
| 18:14 | <&McMartin> | (Some part of me wonders if calling that currency unit "crowns" would be like calling zlotys "goldens" when speaking English) |
| 18:16 | <@ErikMesoy> | Not really. In Norway "krone" only means the currency unit or the headgear, not the government. |
| 18:17 | <&McMartin> | The second sentence means the first one should have been "yes, that's right" |
| 18:18 | <@ErikMesoy> | No, I was responding to your parenthesis while figuring out how to be clear. |
| 18:18 | <&McMartin> | Oh |
| 18:18 | <&McMartin> | That wasn't what I meant, though. |
| 18:18 | <@ErikMesoy> | How about: Norwegian currency has gotten weaker, and Swedish government has collapsed more? |
| 18:18 | <&McMartin> | I meant "we usually treat currency units as proper names" |
| 18:18 | <&McMartin> | We don't call them goldens or weights or THE PEOPLE'S MONETARY UNIT, we call them zloty and pesos and renminbi. |
| 18:20 | <@ErikMesoy> | I see. |
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| 19:28 | <@gnolam> | McMartin: translating them is the only way to get decent singular/plural handling. |
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| 20:33 | <@celticminstrel> | I hate how Ctrl-C copies the entire image in GIMP if nothing is selected. |
| 20:46 | < abudhabi> | What would you want it to do? |
| 20:47 | <&McMartin> | The "obvious" thing for "copy selection" to do with no selection is "copy nothing" |
| 20:48 | < abudhabi> | So that you have nothing in your clipboard? |
| 20:48 | <&McMartin> | Or the clipboard is unmodified, I suppose |
| 20:48 | <&McMartin> | That said, GIMP's behavior here I think tracks most other paint programs. |
| 20:49 | <@celticminstrel> | I would want it to copy nothing, because I frequently hit Ctrl-C by mistake when aiming for Ctrl-V. |
| 20:49 | <&McMartin> | Testing in Notepad, hitting copy with nothing selected does not modify the clipboard, rather than erasing its contents. |
| 20:49 | <@celticminstrel> | This behaviour means I then have to go back and re-copy whatever was in the clipboard before. |
| 20:49 | <@celticminstrel> | (Hopefully this is actually possible. Though usually it is.) |
| 20:50 | <@celticminstrel> | And yeah, that's the normal behaviour in text editing (or word processing) programs. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Dec 18 00:00:32 2014 |