| --- Log opened Mon Dec 15 00:00:44 2014 |
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| 09:49 | <@froztbyte> | https://twitter.com/Horse_Recruiter/status/360757970642022401 |
| 10:12 | <@gnolam> | ... |
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| 18:41 | <&McMartin> | http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9530127/ |
| 18:42 | <&McMartin> | One of my favorite Evil CISC tricks. |
| 18:43 | <&McMartin> | using a fraction of an instruction to take the entire next instruction as an argument |
| 18:43 | <@Tamber> | =D |
| 18:43 | <&McMartin> | conditional execution! |
| 18:46 | <@celticminstrel> | Uh what. |
| 18:48 | <&McMartin> | If you JSR init_score, it loads the Y register with 4 and does its thing |
| 18:49 | <&McMartin> | If you JSR init_scoring it loads it with 9 and then hits an instruction BIT $xx04, where xx is the opcode for LDY immediate |
| 18:49 | <&McMartin> | This is basically a no-op |
| 18:50 | <&McMartin> | So I get to do conditional loading without branches |
| 18:50 | <&McMartin> | Also I got disconnected on every single one of those lines of text, so I'm giving up on IRC for now -_- |
| 18:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Wow, that's a bad connection. |
| 18:52 | <&McMartin> | yay screen~ |
| 18:52 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: I've adopted mosh for my persistent connection to my server |
| 18:52 | <@froztbyte> | not that I actually IRC over it, the latency's just too much (which is why I keep quassel around), but it's useful for mail and not-giving-a-fuck about IP changes |
| 18:52 | <@froztbyte> | presumably your latency path is lower and it'll be Just Fine |
| 18:53 | <&McMartin> | This is Not Typical and not worth changing my entire toolchain for. |
| 18:53 | | * froztbyte suddenly wonders how many gears are involved |
| 18:53 | <@Tamber> | Considering that it's McM, lots of them. |
| 18:53 | <&McMartin> | These are not IP changes |
| 18:54 | <@froztbyte> | (fwiw, it's literally as easy as installing it on both sides, and then typing `mosh servername`) |
| 18:54 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, that's not that easy |
| 18:54 | <@Tamber> | Some of them doing strange, horrible tricks with shaft-passers and other such mechanisms. |
| 18:54 | <@froztbyte> | ah |
| 18:54 | <@froztbyte> | not-your-server kind of territory? |
| 18:54 | <&McMartin> | Mys erver, not my *client* |
| 18:54 | | * froztbyte blinks 3 times |
| 18:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Yay for magic numbers! |
| 18:54 | <@Tamber> | Work machine, I would presume. |
| 18:54 | <&McMartin> | I have ssh at work. |
| 18:55 | <&McMartin> | The problem is not the server's IP changing, nor the client's IP changing |
| 18:55 | <&McMartin> | It's "the cables connecting them keep exploding" |
| 18:55 | <&McMartin> | They will stop exploding in a few hours, no doubt. |
| 18:55 | <@froztbyte> | mosh is good with that too |
| 18:55 | <&McMartin> | Yes, but, as noted |
| 18:55 | <@froztbyte> | that's literally part of why I started using that |
| 18:55 | <@froztbyte> | no, I understand, just remarking for fullness |
| 18:55 | <&McMartin> | Nothing important goes over this connection |
| 18:56 | <@froztbyte> | when a connection is bad enough that even mosh keeps wigging out with 12~20s "last connection" messages, I tend to just give up |
| 18:56 | <&McMartin> | Speaking of which though, this server does want me to reboot it |
| 18:56 | <@froztbyte> | kjasdhkjasd meh don't remind me |
| 18:56 | <@froztbyte> | I've been trying to put that off on elegua for a while |
| 18:56 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-rpcdbf.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Connection impossibly unstable] |
| 18:56 | <@froztbyte> | hoping that I could make time to kexec it up at the same time |
| 19:00 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-rpcdbf.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
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| 20:03 | <@celticminstrel> | I suppose it wouldn't even cause issues to have 200 towns and 50 outdoor sectors in memory, provided at most two towns and four sectors are accessed with any regularity... |
| 20:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...what? |
| 20:04 | <@celticminstrel> | It would simplify a lot of stuff... |
| 20:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | Where does the "accessed with any regularity" come from? |
| 20:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Just load everything and then leave it in memory until it's needed. |
| 20:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | If it's in memory, it's in memory. |
| 20:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Uh, currently only four outdoor sectors are in memory. |
| 20:04 | <@celticminstrel> | So, I was assuming that the game only needed to access at most four at a time. |
| 20:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | Right, but you're saying "it wouldn't be a problem to have everything in memory as long as only a small subset of it is accessed regularly" |
| 20:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | The second half of that statement has no relation to the first |
| 20:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | (setting aside cache locality issues and whatnot but optimization at that level is a long way off, if ever) |
| 20:06 | <@celticminstrel> | Fair enough? |
| 20:06 | <@celticminstrel> | So basically, loading the entire scenario is probably not a bad idea. |
| 20:07 | <@celticminstrel> | ...the only possible difficulty that could pose is making sure things still behave the same, eg wandering monsters disappearing if you get a full sector's lead on them. |
| 20:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Two sector's, probably. |
| 20:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | I mean, if you load 100MB into memory you're going to be fine for memory footprint no matter what you do with it, and if you load 100GB into memory you're going to have a bad time even if you only need 1MB of that each frame |
| 20:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm. |
| 20:08 | <@celticminstrel> | Even if its the same 1MB each frame? |
| 20:08 | <@celticminstrel> | ^it's |
| 20:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | ....yes? |
| 20:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | Are we using different definitions of "memory" here? |
| 20:09 | <@celticminstrel> | It seems unlikely? |
| 20:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | To be more explicit, then: the problem with wanting 100GB of stuff in memory is that no present-day desktop has remotely that much memory, so at best you will OOM and crash and at worst the OS will shove nearly all of that into swap and your load times will be measured in hours and your performance in minutes per frame |
| 20:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you are only accessing the same 1MB of it every time, once -- if -- it's done loading and swapping you will get normal performance in this scenario, because that will be in pages it hasn't swapped out because it's still being accessed. |
| 20:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | Basically, once you try to have enough stuff in memory at once you start swapping, bad things are going to happen even if only need a small subset of that data. |
| 20:13 | <@celticminstrel> | So, I just noticed that the three original scenarios are all under 1MB in file size. |
| 20:13 | <@celticminstrel> | They don't have 200 towns and 50 outdoor sectors, but... |
| 20:14 | <@celticminstrel> | I highly doubt that would push it anywhere near 1GB. |
| 20:15 | <@celticminstrel> | (And the file size is pretty close to the actual memory needed to store it, since he just shoved the structures right into the file.) |
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| 20:50 | <@celticminstrel> | I feel like it could be confusing to use "dialog" and "dialogue" for two different game elements. |
| 20:52 | <@Alek> | well. "dialog" has the connotation of a text-entry box now, in code. while "dialogue" is still conversation. |
| 20:53 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm, so you think it's not confusing? |
| 20:53 | <@Alek> | not to me, anyway. |
| 20:53 | <@Alek> | not offhand. |
| 20:53 | <@Alek> | might depend on actual use cases though |
| 20:53 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, what you described is pretty much the exact meaning used. |
| 20:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Except most dialogs just have buttons. |
| 21:19 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 21:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: what game is this? |
| 21:57 | <@celticminstrel> | Blades of Exile. |
| 22:00 | <@ErikMesoy> | Yeah, I think you'd be hard pressed to have that /ever/ give memory issues. |
| 22:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, I'm going to do the loading entire scenario into memory thing, once I get around to it. |
| 22:00 | <@Reiv> | what year is it? |
| 22:01 | <@celticminstrel> | 1996, I think. |
| 22:01 | | * celticminstrel assumes you mean the year of release. |
| 22:01 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, 1997. |
| 22:01 | <@celticminstrel> | Close enough. >_> |
| 22:02 | <@celticminstrel> | I thought I saw 1996 somewhere, but maybe he forgot to update a copyright string. |
| 22:02 | | * celticminstrel hasn't gotten around to removing the copyright strings yet. |
| 22:04 | <@Reiv> | why are you stripping copyright strings |
| 22:04 | <@Reiv> | That's the sort of thing that is traditionally naughty isn't it |
| 22:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Because it's not copyrighted anymore? |
| 22:04 | <@Reiv> | hn |
| 22:04 | <@celticminstrel> | It was released as open source. |
| 22:04 | <@Reiv> | We need a symbol that is like copyright |
| 22:04 | <@Reiv> | But stands for released |
| 22:04 | <@celticminstrel> | I haven't stripped them yet, but I want to replace them with something more accurate. |
| 22:05 | <@Reiv> | An R would do great, but that one's already taken >_> |
| 22:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe something like "Created by Jeff Vogel in 1997", I dunno. |
| 22:05 | <@Reiv> | yeah that could work |
| 22:05 | <@Reiv> | original credit is good, after all |
| 22:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Yup. |
| 22:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: "open source" does not at all mean "not copyrighted" |
| 22:06 | <@celticminstrel> | I know. |
| 22:07 | <@celticminstrel> | GPL does, though. |
| 22:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Effectively, at least. |
| 22:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | It means "copyrighted, but you are automatically granted a license to redistribute and create derivative works as long as you adhere to these conditions: _____" |
| 22:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...no, it doesn't, at all |
| 22:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, well, I should at the very least remove where it says "All rights reserved". |
| 22:07 | <@ErikMesoy> | No? |
| 22:07 | <@ErikMesoy> | The GPL runs on copyright. |
| 22:08 | <@ErikMesoy> | The GPL is enforceable because copyright. |
| 22:08 | <@ErikMesoy> | The GPL keeps stuff publicly accessible and open by copyright. |
| 22:08 | <@ErikMesoy> | Suggestion: consult a lawyer before removing copyright strings. |
| 22:09 | | * celticminstrel points to my previous post. |
| 22:10 | <@celticminstrel> | Anyway, removing or changing the copyright strings is very low priority for me. |
| 22:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | AIUI, All Rights Reserved is incompatible with the GPL, but it was also made obsolete years ago and no longer has any legal weight. |
| 22:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Huh. |
| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | All Rights Reserved is not obsolete, it's Taken For Granted |
| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | It's what holds in the absence of any other license |
| 22:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: that's what I meant; there's no reason to include it anymore because it's the default |
| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | Well. It's now asserting "we have no other licensing agreements active for you" |
| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | Loads of stuff post-1978 still says taht |
| 22:13 | <@celticminstrel> | Whatever the case, it no longer applies in this situation... |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | (Which is IIRC when it became default in the US) |
| 22:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: my understanding is that it used to be required, but as of some recent convention on copyright it is now implicit where not contradicted. |
| 22:16 | <&McMartin> | Yes. The Bern Convention, adopted in the US in the late 1970s. |
| 22:16 | <&McMartin> | I'm not sure how recent that counts as |
| 22:16 | <&McMartin> | ISTR the US was a latecomer |
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| --- Log closed Tue Dec 16 00:00:00 2014 |