| --- Log opened Tue Sep 16 00:00:55 2014 |
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| 10:07 | <@Azash> | https://community.rapid7.com/community/metasploit/blog/2014/09/15/major-android- bug-is-a-privacy-disaster-cve-2014-6041 |
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| 10:46 | <@Tarinaky> | Fuck I hate Ruby |
| 10:47 | | * TheWatcher hands you the club membership card and welcome pack |
| 10:49 | <@Tarinaky> | So. I have productions of the form $CMD string list |
| 10:49 | <@RchrdB> | I don't understand that. It's just Perl with modern syntax + OOP? *ducks* |
| 10:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Where string is a quoted string. |
| 10:49 | <@Tarinaky> | And list ::= value list |
| 10:49 | <@TheWatcher> | RchrdB: ... no, no it really isn't |
| 10:49 | <@Tarinaky> | and value can be either a string or an int. |
| 10:50 | <@Tarinaky> | Now, I can split tokens on spaces - that would work. |
| 10:50 | <@Tarinaky> | Except I can't get it to glue the tokens back together again if there's quote marks. |
| 10:50 | <@RchrdB> | TheWatcher, oh, it has blocks too! So sometimes you can sorta do FP with it. ;) |
| 10:50 | <@TheWatcher> | I do believe you might be taking the piss. |
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| 11:04 | <@Tarinaky> | Ahah! |
| 11:04 | <@Tarinaky> | Working! |
| 11:04 | | * Tarinaky checks it in quickly |
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| 13:17 | <@Azash> | http://securityreactions.tumblr.com/post/97488756234/ssl-handshake-successful |
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| 14:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Remind me. In C, do you need to explicitly mark a function as having no arguments with void foo(void) ? |
| 14:02 | <@Azash> | It's been a while but I think, explicitly not, but it's Good Style |
| 14:03 | <@Tarinaky> | Ty |
| 14:04 | <@Azash> | You can just test this by trying it and seeing if your computer explodes |
| 14:04 | <@TheWatcher> | They mean different things: f(void) means "takes no arguments" while f() means "takes an unknown number of arguments" |
| 14:06 | <@TheWatcher> | (essentially, including the void allows the compiler to check the definition and calling of the function, omitting it means it can't do it properly) |
| 14:07 | <@TheWatcher> | (generally you want to include the void, unless you have a really good reason to not do so) |
| 14:09 | <@Azash> | Embrace the void |
| 14:11 | <@Azash> | Intredasting |
| 14:12 | <@Azash> | Apparently Rails uses a request parameter called "_method" which forces the request method |
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| 14:35 | <@Tarinaky> | More C questions... |
| 14:35 | <@Tarinaky> | I have some third party object code with some methods that return pointers to structs that're defined inside the object code. |
| 14:35 | <@Tarinaky> | I don't actually care about the parameters of the struct - I just want to pass those pointers around to calls to methods inside that object code... |
| 14:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Do I want the idiom "extern struct foo;" ? |
| 14:36 | <@TheWatcher> | do you actually have the struct definition? |
| 14:36 | <@TheWatcher> | If not, just use void * |
| 14:38 | <@Tarinaky> | Well I need to declare the methods as well, right? |
| 14:38 | <@Tarinaky> | I have the corresponding C file. |
| 14:38 | <@Tarinaky> | On reflection, it might be easier to just #include the .c file. |
| 14:39 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh god no |
| 14:39 | <@TheWatcher> | If you have the c file, make a proper header |
| 14:39 | <@TheWatcher> | If the c file contains the struct definition, move it into the header |
| 14:39 | <@TheWatcher> | and create the prototypes in the header |
| 14:39 | <&McMartin> | An opaque structure is "struct foo;" |
| 14:39 | <&McMartin> | You don't need extern. |
| 14:40 | <&McMartin> | Monocle uses this all over. |
| 14:40 | <&McMartin> | If you've declared "struct foo;" then you can have struct foo *s in your code and they won't be confused with other opaque types the way void * will. |
| 14:40 | <@TheWatcher> | True |
| 14:40 | <@TheWatcher> | #including .c files is almost never what you want to do, though. |
| 14:41 | <&McMartin> | Correct. |
| 14:45 | <@RchrdB> | Tarinaky, you do want to explicitly mark a function as having no arguments with void foo(void). |
| 14:46 | <@RchrdB> | Tarinaky, void foo() claims that foo() returns nothing and takes an arbitrary number of arguments. |
| 14:46 | <@Tarinaky> | RchrdB: You're late to that party :P |
| 14:46 | <@RchrdB> | Oh yes. |
| 14:46 | <@RchrdB> | We had that party like two months back anyway. |
| 14:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Did you get very, very drunk? |
| 14:47 | | * Tarinaky blinks. |
| 14:47 | <@RchrdB> | You get slightly better object code output from the latter. :) |
| 14:47 | <@Tarinaky> | Where the fuck is this enum declared o.o |
| 14:47 | <@RchrdB> | er, you get slightly better object code output from void foo(void). |
| 14:47 | <@TheWatcher> | Tarinaky: In the place you'd least expect it to be |
| 14:48 | <@Tarinaky> | "Oh. There." |
| 14:59 | < Syka> | in the ceiling fan |
| 15:00 | < Syka> | next to the stray cat |
| 15:04 | | * Tarinaky blinks wtf. |
| 15:05 | <@Tarinaky> | Okay. So. In the tinyalsa project. |
| 15:05 | <@Tarinaky> | Why does tinymix.c reference functions from mix.c... |
| 15:05 | <@Tarinaky> | But I can't see any way that those methods are declared. |
| 15:06 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh wait. |
| 15:06 | <@Tarinaky> | I am literally the world's biggest idiot. |
| 15:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | "How do I tell where my test server is writing its output to?" "You look at the [redacted] flag." "...that looks like a production path." "It does. ...could you just shut down that test server for a bit?" |
| 15:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | "Well, is it writing good output?" "That's what I was just about to check. No-one's gotten paged, so I guess so?" |
| 15:44 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
| 15:50 | <@Tarinaky> | cc1.exe: error: unrecognized command line option '-std=C99' |
| 15:50 | <@Tarinaky> | WTF |
| 15:50 | < Julius> | Try two -? |
| 15:51 | <@Tarinaky> | Same error |
| 15:51 | < Julius> | Try 89? |
| 15:51 | <@Tarinaky> | Same error |
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| 15:54 | < Julius> | Try not including that option at all? |
| 15:54 | < Julius> | Try C++11? |
| 15:54 | < Julius> | Try rebooting your environment? |
| 15:54 | <@Tarinaky> | Then it complains at me for using C++ style comments if I omit the switch |
| 15:55 | <@Tarinaky> | Apparently, the correct bit of magic is '-std=gnu99' |
| 15:55 | <@Tarinaky> | AH! |
| 15:55 | <@Tarinaky> | -std=c99 works |
| 15:55 | <@Tarinaky> | It was the capital letter! |
| 15:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: ...? |
| 15:59 | <@RchrdB> | c99 is C99, gnu99 is C99 + gnu extensions. |
| 16:20 | <@Tarinaky> | It was nonobvious that it would be case sensitive. |
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| 16:28 | <@Azash> | To be fair command lines parameters usually are |
| 16:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, I'd be shocked if it weren't. Case-sensitivity is the norm. |
| 16:34 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 16:37 | <@TheWatcher> | ToxicFrog: the conversation you were quoting sounded to me like a prelude to numerous things breaking horribly |
| 16:37 | | * Tarinaky blinks. |
| 16:37 | <@Tarinaky> | "warning: pFile may be used uninitialized in this function" |
| 16:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: no, everything was fine. |
| 16:38 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah wait, I see the issue |
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| 17:24 | <@RchrdB> | Tarinaky, IME, gcc and clang's "foo may be used uninitialized in this function" warnings are correct more often than not. They're actually kinda conservative. |
| 17:26 | <&McMartin> | They also are unlikely to show up in your debug builds on gcc because you have to turn on at least -O1 for it to do the dataflow work to detect that. |
| 17:29 | <@RchrdB> | small projects, I prefer to build with -Os pretty much always, partly because it turns on some dataflow, partly because if I want to gaze at the asm, -Os output is easier to read than -O0 |
| 17:31 | <@Tarinaky> | RchrdB: Yeah. It turns out it was because I'm unused to having pants on head retarded code style conv entions like must use gotos. |
| 17:32 | <&McMartin> | You know, I've been seeing an uptick in that in C code lately. |
| 17:32 | <&McMartin> | I blame destructors~ |
| 17:32 | <@Tarinaky> | I blame people arguing that goto considered harmful is a product of its times and irrelevant today. |
| 17:33 | <@Tarinaky> | Gives the false impression that goto, you know... isn't harmful for /other/ reasons now >.> |
| 17:33 | <&McMartin> | There are two places goto can be "legit" used, IMO, in C code |
| 17:33 | <&McMartin> | One is "I have to do cleanup so instead of returns in the middle of the routine use goto out" |
| 17:33 | <@RchrdB> | "goto considered harmful" was written in response to people using goto to implement loops. |
| 17:33 | <&McMartin> | Yes, goto fail wrecked Apple's TLS, but a return would have done the same |
| 17:33 | <@RchrdB> | Forward goto for cleanup is actually quite nice. |
| 17:34 | <&McMartin> | The other semi-legit use is to simulate in-routine exception handling, with the caveat that this may be a more general case of the former |
| 17:34 | <&McMartin> | And any time you're doing that in C and it *isn't* 'for cleanup and exit' that's probably a yellow flag. |
| 17:34 | <@RchrdB> | That's what setjmp is for. ;) |
| 17:35 | <&McMartin> | setjmp: worse than goto. Just sayin' |
| 17:41 | <@Tarinaky> | Has google been slow for anyone else or just me? |
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| 18:49 | < Vorntastic> | I'm working on building a db view that counts entities with matching fks, in several tables. For instance: on facebook and stackexchange, posts have votes and comments. I have a table that says who liked a given post, and another table that says what comments a post has. I wish to make a view that tells me, for each post, how many votes and how many comments the post has. |
| 18:49 | < Vorntastic> | Unfortunately I can't think of a name for this task so my searches are unproductive. |
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| 19:01 | <@Azash> | http://www.catonmat.net/ftp/sed/sedtris.sed |
| 19:03 | < Vorntastic> | Some people have too much time on their hands, if that's what it looks like. |
| 19:03 | <&McMartin> | It isn't clear to me how you make it go. |
| 19:04 | < Vorntastic> | I should clarify: I know how to do *one*; it's doing *two* that's the problem. |
| 19:05 | <&McMartin> | That is exactly what it looks like |
| 19:05 | <&McMartin> | And it is in color |
| 19:09 | < Vorntastic> | Vast ludicrosity |
| 19:09 | <&McMartin> | (You make it go by typing s then enter) |
| 19:09 | <&McMartin> | (because moving the pieces left and right do not make it descend) |
| 19:12 | <@Azash> | Or space if you are really confident |
| 19:12 | <&McMartin> | That didn't work for me until I'd let it descend at least one square |
| 19:13 | <@Azash> | That's true, until one square is drawn it's not "on the board" |
| 19:16 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 19:33 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 19:39 | < Julius> | I'm increasingly disliking Visual Basic. |
| 19:39 | < Julius> | This seems positively correlated with the amount of exposure I have to it. |
| 19:39 | < Vorntastic> | Vb is not a good language. |
| 19:40 | <&McMartin> | Dim Sum as Integer |
| 19:41 | <@macdjord|slep> | ... dammit, McMartin. |
| 19:41 | <@macdjord|slep> | Now I want Sui Mai. |
| 19:41 | | macdjord|slep is now known as macdjord |
| 19:41 | < Julius> | Chinese food? |
| 19:42 | <&McMartin> | That's half the joke, yes. |
| 19:43 | <&McMartin> | The other half is how "sum" is a totally legit notion of a variable name and then VB's type declaration syntax |
| 19:46 | < Vorntastic> | Not syre how that other half is a joke, really |
| 19:47 | <&McMartin> | Merely "yay, Dim Sum is valid BASIC" |
| 19:54 | < Vorntastic> | double trouble;, clearly |
| 19:56 | < Vorntastic> | No, better. short &sweet; |
| 19:56 | < Julius> | You can put a space there, right? |
| 19:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 19:57 | <&McMartin> | You can, but it's only legal as a field specifier. |
| 19:57 | <&McMartin> | Or a formal. |
| 19:57 | <&McMartin> | Because you can't have uninitialized references. |
| 19:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is a matter of some debate whether the space goes before the &, after, or both~ |
| 19:58 | < Vorntastic> | The rule I'm used to is before; in multi-initialization statements, only the first of int* foo, bar; is a pointer. |
| 19:58 | < Vorntastic> | Which will eat your brains. |
| 20:00 | | * Vorntastic beats his head on his db problem; everything he's found wants to solve crosstab, not this. |
| 20:03 | < Vorntastic> | Multi-declaration statements that is. Not, you know, that such statements are advisable... |
| 20:20 | <@macdjord> | Vorntastic: Correct, because it is actually 'int *foo, bar;' - one of the things in C syntax I consider unambiguously a /mistake/. |
| 20:24 | < Vorntastic> | Imo allowing multideclarations was a bad move. |
| 20:37 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 20:41 | <@macdjord> | Even if it were single-dec only. It should be '*int foo;' - 'pointer to int'. It would also make the syntax around the const keyword a lot clearer. |
| 21:11 | < Vorntastic> | Const vs pointers = fear |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | const const const baked beans and const |
| 21:25 | | * iospace points at Vorntastic |
| 21:42 | | * Vorntastic bites iospace's finger off. |
| 21:48 | <@iospace> | D: |
| 21:49 | < Vorntastic> | Pointing is rude! |
| 21:50 | | * macdjord defereferences Vorntastic |
| 21:50 | <@Azash> | Vorntastic: Did you remember to free() before you nulled that pointer |
| 21:51 | < Vorntastic> | I didn't malloc it in the first place, so no. |
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| 22:53 | <@gnolam> | Bluh |
| 22:53 | <@gnolam> | SQL and a fever don't mix very well. |
| 22:55 | <@TheWatcher> | Which is curious, considering that I think some parts of SQL could only have been thought up when under the influence of one~ |
| 22:55 | <@Azash> | TheWatcher: Under the influence, sure, but I wouldn't wager much on fever |
| 22:56 | <@Azash> | That aside, I wonder why SQL gets such a bad rap |
| 22:56 | <@Azash> | It's not like it's a bad language beyond requiring you to displace your brain a bit to grok it |
| 22:57 | <@TheWatcher> | Because it's very easy to get it very, very wrong and end up using literally a million times more resources than you actually need to if you aren't careful. |
| 22:57 | <@TheWatcher> | Sometimes just by using the wrong sort of join |
| 23:05 | <@RchrdB> | TheWatcher, I have recently been working on ZODB-using code that was using about a hundred times more resources than it actually needed to because that system's search functionality has indexes but no form of query planning. :) |
| 23:06 | <@Azash> | TheWatcher: Sure, but that's more "practice makes perfect" than anything |
| 23:26 | <@macdjord> | Gaaaah... |
| 23:26 | <@macdjord> | I need to update my video card drivers. |
| 23:27 | <@macdjord> | The driver for this chipset which I downloaded from the Intel site refuses to instal, telling me to instead get the version from my OEM's website. |
| 23:28 | <@macdjord> | But the latest version available from Toshiba is 4 years older than the one from Intel! |
| 23:32 | <@Reiv> | be fair |
| 23:32 | <@Reiv> | SQL was built to be easily optimised by a database, not a human |
| 23:32 | <@Reiv> | It's an Old School language, as it were |
| 23:32 | <@Reiv> | Much of its bad rap comes accordingly. |
| 23:32 | <@Reiv> | It's just probably the most pervasive Old Language out there short of C, y'know? |
| 23:33 | <@Azash> | It's going to be fairly hard to replace, I think |
| 23:33 | <@Reiv> | Very much so. |
| 23:34 | <@Reiv> | It's easy to fuck up, but it's good at what it does. |
| 23:34 | <@Azash> | MongoDB seemed at one point the best candidate for passing the torch |
| 23:34 | <@Azash> | However, upon receiving the torch, it fell onto its face mid-sprint, started crying, soiled itself and rolled a couple of feet backwards |
| 23:35 | <@gnolam> | Reiv: The fact that every database has its own, incompatible SQL dialect sure helps too. |
| 23:37 | <@Reiv> | ehhh |
| 23:37 | <@Reiv> | They're /mostly/ the same |
| 23:37 | <@Reiv> | I do wish they were /more/ the same, I truly do |
| 23:38 | <@Reiv> | I want Microsofts temporary tables with Oracles date and analytic functions, darnit~ |
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| 23:41 | <@macdjord> | Fuuuuuuuck... |
| 23:43 | <@macdjord> | Anyone know anything I can do? |
| 23:47 | <@RchrdB> | You're boned, I think. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Sep 17 00:00:11 2014 |