| --- Log opened Sat Jul 12 00:00:59 2014 |
| 00:03 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:16 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | Son of a bitch |
| 00:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | I need to add union support to vstruct to do this properly |
| 00:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | I was about to say "and user-defined type support" but then I remembered it's had that since 1.0. |
| 00:42 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel|Spicy |
| 01:55 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 02:16 | | * Orthia hugs ToxicFrog, hands him an array |
| 03:02 | | Turaiel|Spicy is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 03:13 | < [R]> | Dear Microsoft: I appluad your ability to detect my 1TB drive from your install media. This I expected you to do. I am pleased that I can create partitions and format the drive as well. This I expected you to do. It displeases me that you are unable to detect the very same drive, when I tell you to install to it. You are TRWTF. |
| 03:13 | < [R]> | Dear Microsoft: I commend you for informing me that I could learn from the Windows Setup Log. Where the fuck is the button to see it you retarded cunts? Thank you kindly. You are TRWTF. |
| 03:49 | | macdjord|wurk is now known as macdjord |
| 04:00 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 04:03 | <@celticminstrel> | XD |
| 04:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Also, what's TRWTF? |
| 04:03 | <@celticminstrel> | I can guess at the last three letters... |
| 04:04 | < luke> | "The Real WTF" (From Urban Dictionary) |
| 04:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 04:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Though that doesn't make any more sense than the unexpanded acronym. |
| 04:06 | < luke> | The UD example: Billy: Look at this website! WTF is going on here? // Bob: Sure, that is an awful website, but TRWTF is you're using IE 7! |
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| 04:43 | < [R]> | It's from The Daily WTF, basically it's pointing out where the root WTF is. |
| 04:53 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. I kind of gave up on TDWTF when they had a series of freakouts over people defining their own boolean types in C. |
| 04:54 | <&McMartin> | Sometimes the intended WTF was that they had done so incorrectly, but none of the commentators or posters seemed to notice |
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| 06:34 | < luke> | For the windows users out there: how do I append both stderr and stdout to a file with redirection at the command line? Basically, the equivalent of bash's prog >> file 2>&1 |
| 06:35 | <&McMartin> | You can't do that with batch files, but you might be able to with PowerShell. I'm bad at PowerShell, though. |
| 06:36 | <&McMartin> | In Python, popen4 will do it and there's also a way to configure the subprocess functions to get the effect that's listed in the documentation. |
| 06:36 | < luke> | Python isn't an option, I'm afraid. |
| 06:37 | <&McMartin> | I'm pretty sure you need more than batch |
| 06:37 | <&McMartin> | Hrm. |
| 06:37 | <&McMartin> | What *do* you have? |
| 06:38 | < luke> | A C++ compiler (MinGW), a BASIC compiler and whatever comes with Windows by default. |
| 06:38 | < luke> | (It sounds weird, I know) |
| 06:38 | <&McMartin> | OK |
| 06:38 | <&McMartin> | Windows Vista or later? |
| 06:39 | <&McMartin> | If so, then you *do* have PowerShell |
| 06:39 | < luke> | Nope, I need to support XP as well *grumble grumble* |
| 06:39 | <&McMartin> | Mrr. |
| 06:41 | <&McMartin> | If you have MinGW and also have the windows header files (part of MS's own windows SDK), then you should be able to do this with CreateProcess and the STARTUPINFO parameter |
| 06:42 | <&McMartin> | That's challenging though and IIRC it interoperates poorly with the libcs that MinGW and MSVS use. |
| 06:43 | <&McMartin> | I'm not good enough with Windows Scripting to be totally sure how to set it up, but it may be doable. If so, it will be doable both with JScript and VBScript. |
| 06:44 | < luke> | That's okay, I should be able to do something with CreateProcess. It's quite frustrating when something is so easy on one platform and so difficult on another. |
| 06:44 | < luke> | Thanks anyway. |
| 06:44 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 06:45 | <&McMartin> | Processes and access control are the two main places where Windows and POSIX are from completely different planets |
| 06:45 | <&McMartin> | Specifically, Planet VMS and Planet Unix~ |
| 06:45 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 06:47 | <@celticminstrel> | VMS? |
| 06:47 | <&McMartin> | An old minicomputer operating system. Windows NT shares many of the same architects and is often considered a sort of spiritual descendant. |
| 06:48 | <&McMartin> | Also, if you rot1 VMS you get WNT and many people suspect this is not a coincidence, but I bet it is =P |
| 06:51 | <@celticminstrel> | XD |
| 07:15 | <&McMartin> | (AIUI, WinNT and VMS are *much* more different experiences than Unix Proper and Linux are.) |
| 07:17 | < luke> | Cross-platform compatitibility's a bitch, then the bug reports come. |
| 07:17 | <&McMartin> | Yup |
| 07:17 | <&McMartin> | That said, one weird thing about Windows is that the closer to the metal you go, the less awful it gets. |
| 07:18 | <&McMartin> | Its equivalent of "man 2" is a lot less concise than POSIX, but not really any harder to use. |
| 07:18 | <&McMartin> | It's just... alien. |
| 07:18 | <&McMartin> | But using raw Win32 is only slightly more pleasant than interfacing to X without a toolkit. |
| 07:19 | <&McMartin> | WinForms is pretty OK, but if you're targeting XP, you only get to have that available if you're also shipping a .NET runtime, I think. |
| 07:19 | < luke> | Please don't mention X. I'm currently having nightmares about it. |
| 07:19 | <&McMartin> | Sorry |
| 07:19 | <&McMartin> | WPF looks like it might be a neat solution to a class of problems I happen to never be trying to solve~ |
| 07:20 | | * McMartin has yet to try doing simple WinForms stuff in Mono, if that even works, and if it does, he's not sure how cross-platform it ends up being. |
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| 19:25 | <@ErikMesoy> | I know I'll never find a programming language that frees me from the burden of clarifying my ideas, but is it too much to ask for a programming language that frees me from the burden of ButtonsNameIndex[ButtonClickEventListener.GetID()] ? |
| 19:31 | <@froztbyte> | I have absolutely no idea what you're referring to |
| 19:32 | <@ErikMesoy> | I am referring to the nuisance of programming non-static buttons on an interface. (Context-sensitive, Show/Hide options etc.) |
| 20:18 | <&jerith> | ErikMesoy: I read good things about OCaml's GTK bindings.~ |
| 20:39 | < [R]> | "I have a maintenance window at about 5AM tomorrow. It's fairly simple â upgrade CentOS, remove a package, install a package, reboot. Downtime shouldn't be more than 5 minutes" |
| 20:39 | < [R]> | lolwut |
| 20:39 | < [R]> | You can upgrade your OS and do all that other shit in 5 /minutes/? |
| 20:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | [R]: The only part of that that's actually downtime is the reboot. |
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| 21:09 | < gaq> | تØØ°Ùر |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | warning |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | you may be watched |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet(facebook,youtube,twitter, chat rooms ..ect)to spy?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet 2 collect informations,,can we call that spying?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do they record&analyse everything we do on the internet,,can they harm you using these informations?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | warning |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | you may be watched |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet(facebook,youtube,twitter, chat rooms ..ect)to spy?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet 2 collect informations,,can we call that spying?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do they record&analyse everything we do on the internet,,can they harm you using these informations?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | warning |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | you may be watched |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet(facebook,youtube,twitter, chat rooms ..ect)to spy?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet 2 collect informations,,can we call that spying?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do they record&analyse everything we do on the internet,,can they harm you using these informations?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | warning |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | you may be watched |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet(facebook,youtube,twitter, chat rooms ..ect)to spy?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet 2 collect informations,,can we call that spying?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do they record&analyse everything we do on the internet,,can they harm you using these informations?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | warning |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | you may be watched |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet(facebook,youtube,twitter, chat rooms ..ect)to spy?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet 2 collect informations,,can we call that spying?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do they record&analyse everything we do on the internet,,can they harm you using these informations?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | warning |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | you may be watched |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet(facebook,youtube,twitter, chat rooms ..ect)to spy?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do usa&israel use the internet 2 collect informations,,can we call that spying?? |
| 21:09 | < gaq> | do they record&analyse everything we do on the internet,,can they harm you using these informations?? |
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| 21:11 | <@Tamber> | ...that 'tard again. |
| 21:14 | <@macdjord|slep> | And still spouting the same nonsense. (The answers are 'yes', 'no', and 'yes') |
| 21:15 | <@Tamber> | Well. "Yes, yes, maybe, yes, maybe.", perhaps? |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | They'd better go to their secret treehouse that is "publically broadcasting identifying information everywhere" and pout angrily when pepole notice they exist |
| 21:18 | <@Tamber> | hee |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | People *totally wouldn't* notice they exist if it weren't for the sinister American deep security state |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> | And their rumored "Two Eyes" program |
| 21:21 | <&McMartin> | Though somewhere I picked up a fun piece of cold war spy trivia, actually |
| 21:21 | <@Tamber> | Oh? |
| 21:21 | <&McMartin> | A fairly major bit of spying against and amongst the the Western powers in the cold war boiled down to "having subscriptions to their newspapers" |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | ... and that this is, prior to the 1980s, what "open source" meant |
| 21:22 | <@Tamber> | Hehehe |
| 21:23 | <@macdjord|slep> | Tamber: Well, I'd argue that no, you cannot call using the internet to collect information 'spying' unless they are cracking security in some way. Gathering publicly available information is not spying, any more than buying a newspaper from the enemy country is. |
| 21:23 | | macdjord|slep is now known as macdjord |
| 21:23 | <&McMartin> | macdjord: Right, though if the various intelligence agencies *aren't* buying newspapers, they aren't doing their jobs, etc. |
| 21:24 | <&McMartin> | They might want to get some context first; it's been necessary to remind China several times that the Onion isn't real, etc. |
| 21:24 | <@macdjord> | McMartin: It's intel work, but it's not /spying/. |
| 21:24 | <&McMartin> | Works for me. |
| 21:25 | <@macdjord> | So the answers reall are 'Almost certainly', 'not really', 'no' and 'certainly. |
| 21:31 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 21:33 | <&McMartin> | "If not, someone needs to be fired"~ |
| 21:33 | <@Tamber> | hee |
| 21:41 | <@ErikMesoy> | McMartin: don't forget the Daily Currant article reporting that the person responsible for the olympic rings failure in Sochi had apparently tripped down a staircase and fallen on a set of knives, this being the sort of accident that sometimes happens to people who betray Russia. Very unfortunate. :D |
| 21:43 | <&McMartin> | This is part of the reason irony keeps getting its long-dead corpse desecrated. >_> |
| 21:44 | <@ErikMesoy> | I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that. |
| 21:45 | <&McMartin> | "Satirical news sites are basically impossible to tell from improbable but entirely plausible real news these days" |
| 21:45 | <&McMartin> | I guess this is more Poe's Lament. |
| 21:46 | <&McMartin> | But the formulation is the "irony/satire is dead" thing, but this is problematic because I have it on good authority that they died in 1973. |
| 21:47 | <@ErikMesoy> | That's what you consider plausible? People "accidentally" falling on a set of knives sounds like mustache-twirling cartoon evil to me. |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | Er |
| 21:47 | <@Tamber> | That's... that's the point. |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | ErikMesoy: The article reported would be "person that embarassed the powerful ends up dead under conditions of obvious foul play with comically transparent excuse", yes. |
| 21:48 | <&McMartin> | Where the true fact of the matter is "person is still alive but not exactly making a lot of waves because they recently embarassed the powerful" |
| 21:49 | <&McMartin> | And, well, yes, actually, it *does* seem like a lot of people the world 'round have been using Saturday Morning cartoon villains as inspiration =P |
| 21:50 | <&McMartin> | (1973, incidentally, is because that is the year Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize, and in response Tom Lehrer retired, citing this as the reason.) |
| 21:50 | <&McMartin> | ("I can't compete with real life anymore") |
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| 23:25 | <&McMartin> | A math-y coding question |
| 23:26 | <&McMartin> | Given a curve described by some function, I want to divide it up into components of equal length, so that I can animate something moving along said curve at constant speed. |
| 23:26 | <&McMartin> | Orienting that sprite is easy; take the slope, atan2, done. |
| 23:27 | <&McMartin> | "how far down this path is 1 unit of distance down this path" is stymieing me, and my google searches are all turning up, basically, "here's how you tween along a curve in Flash - by using the tween-along-a-curve tool" |
| 23:28 | <&Derakon> | Hrm. |
| 23:28 | <&Derakon> | This would be easy if the function were a radial function~ |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | There *has* to be a stock solution for this, but damned if I can find it |
| 23:28 | <&Derakon> | But I'm guessing it's a spline curve or Z=f(x, y) type of think. |
| 23:28 | <&Derakon> | Er, thing. |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | That said |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | radial isn't trivial |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | Becuase if it's an ellipse you don't want to be moving faster along the longer sides. |
| 23:29 | <&Derakon> | Well, so. The distance covered by a curve should be the absolute value of its integral, right? |
| 23:29 | <&McMartin> | So constant-angular-velocity is not the answer. |
| 23:29 | <&Derakon> | â¦no, wait, that doesn't work. |
| 23:29 | <&McMartin> | A quick mental simulation with the curve "y=x" says no |
| 23:30 | <&McMartin> | It occurs to me that I can cheat by traveling a short distance tangent to the curve and then project back onto it |
| 23:30 | <&Derakon> | Honestly doing this the dumb way by sampling would be pretty easy. |
| 23:30 | <&McMartin> | But that seems, well, cheaty |
| 23:30 | <&Derakon> | That is, do a binary search on the curve until you get close enough to your desired total distance traveled. |
| 23:30 | <&Derakon> | I assume that evaluating the curve is not expensive. |
| 23:30 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 23:30 | <&McMartin> | Basically binary search along http://www.mathwords.com/a/arc_length_of_a_curve.htm |
| 23:31 | < simon_> | McMartin, so you want to segment a function into (a,b) so f(b)-f(a) is equal for all segments, right? |
| 23:31 | <&Derakon> | f(x+a) = f(x+b) for all x. |
| 23:31 | < simon_> | McMartin, sorry, different (a,b) for each segment. |
| 23:31 | <&McMartin> | simon_: Um, I don't *think* so |
| 23:31 | <&Derakon> | Er, no. |
| 23:31 | <&McMartin> | Let's see |
| 23:31 | <&Derakon> | I mean the subtraction, like you said. |
| 23:31 | <&Derakon> | But what he cares about is the distance traveled "on foot", not the total distance from the starting point. |
| 23:32 | <&Derakon> | Which makes it trickier. |
| 23:32 | <&McMartin> | I want to turn the function into a parametric function y=f(t) and x = g(t) such that the arc length for (f,g)(t+x) to (f,g)(t) is equal for all t, with x held at some fixed value. |
| 23:32 | <&McMartin> | ... I think that covers it |
| 23:32 | < simon_> | McMartin, assuming the entire curve is continuous and that each segment is monotonous.. |
| 23:32 | <&McMartin> | Yes, the curves are continuous and infinitely differentiable |
| 23:33 | <&McMartin> | Or can be piecewise split into things that are |
| 23:34 | <&McMartin> | (And actually, what I *really* want is the deltas. My question is "I'm at point X on this path, moving at speed V. Where should I be next frame?") |
| 23:35 | <&McMartin> | I can be comfortable and get by if I restrict myself to lines and stretched circles |
| 23:36 | <&McMartin> | But if it's a 2:1 ellipse, I don't want to be going twice as fast at the major axis as I am on the minor. |
| 23:37 | <&McMartin> | Hrm |
| 23:39 | < simon_> | I would have thought that all you need, for a function f and an interval (x0,dx) and a step-size s, is to take f(x0+dx)-f(x0) = s, and then determine dx. |
| 23:40 | < simon_> | (this is for functions of one parameter.) |
| 23:40 | <&McMartin> | OK, so, I guess maybe I should back up a bit |
| 23:40 | <&McMartin> | The actual problem here is that I want to have, basically, patrolling enemy units |
| 23:40 | <&McMartin> | And I want them to smoothly move along their patrol paths. |
| 23:41 | <&McMartin> | So I think that's a parametric function. |
| 23:41 | <&McMartin> | Hmmm |
| 23:42 | | mode/#code [+o RchrdB] by ChanServ |
| 23:42 | <&McMartin> | The basic case for the ellipse guys is basically x = cos t, y = 2 sin t |
| 23:43 | <&McMartin> | Which describes the curve, but then for any given time unit the dt is different |
| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | So, for a stretched circle... it's x = W cos t, y = H sin t |
| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | And the arc length from a to be is integral(a,b)(sqrt((dx/dt)^2 + (dy/dt)^2) dt) |
| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | which is integral(a,b)(sqrt(W^2sin^2 t + H^2cos^2 t) dt |
| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | which is, um, ugly |
| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | And you want to find, given an a, the b that gives you "speed" as an answer |
| --- Log closed Sun Jul 13 00:00:06 2014 |