| --- Log opened Tue May 20 00:00:26 2014 |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | Like, #!/usr/bin/python requires that python be in /usr/bin, which it isn't always. |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | And the documented solution is #!/bin/env python |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | But env is not always in /bin. |
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| 01:00 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:01 | <&Derakon> | McM: I guess you could do something like "#!`find . -name env -exec {} python`" but then you're relying on find being what you expect it to be~ |
| 01:01 | <&Derakon> | In short, I expect you're boned. |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | Well |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | I expect to say "if you're one something wacky, edit line one of the script, you are a big boy" |
| 01:06 | <&Derakon> | Heh. |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | But it also means I'm going to reject the pull request re: using /bin/env instead |
| 01:07 | < Xires> | I think /usr/bin/env is a bit more common |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | Hm |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | If one were to make a /bin/sh script that invoked python by name, would that work? |
| 01:08 | < Xires> | not sure what LSB says about it |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | We're in "more work than telling them to update their line 1" |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | OK, I am explicitly rejecting the attitude "program to the standard and yell at people whose systems don't match it" |
| 01:09 | < Xires> | include a /bin/sh script that changes the line for them? |
| 01:09 | <&McMartin> | At that point, just have that be the invocation |
| 01:09 | <&McMartin> | That's an issue for people who want to package the thing, imo. |
| 01:09 | < Xires> | indeed..wrapper |
| 01:09 | <&McMartin> | It's got a distutils edition. |
| 01:10 | <&McMartin> | I think distutils might be smart enough to do the rewrites |
| 01:10 | < Xires> | bourne shell + sed should be good enough but a wrapper might make it unnecessary |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | My inclination here is to say "don't have this be a last-minute change" |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | Since I'm prepping a 2.1 release when this came in |
| 01:12 | < Xires> | compile the script & run as binary?? |
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| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | That is the Windows solution~ |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | If there are good MinGW-compatible ahead-of-type Python compilers, I would love to try them out. |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | *ahead-of-time |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | I'm using py2exe right now and it's a bit of a slog getting everything packaged in with it. |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | (To clarify: This is a tri-platform pure-Python commandline application.) |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | So, py2exe on windows, script-that-modifies-the-pythonpath-temporarily for Mac and most Linux usecases, distutils for permanent installs. |
| 01:20 | < Xires> | okay, what about a shell script that executes the python contained within? almost like tail -n +2 $0 |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | Hah, you mean as a here document? |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | A possible solution but too late to hit the release vehicle I'm aiming for, I think. |
| 01:21 | < Xires> | can you tell python to begin executing a script at a specific line number? |
| 01:22 | <&McMartin> | The script is actually such that I suspect it replaces a single line of shell in the first place. |
| 01:23 | < Xires> | forgo the shebang and instruct that the script is meant to be run as 'py scriptfile'? |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | That's kinda how bin/env does it |
| 01:24 | < Xires> | indeed, but the issue being that you cannot trust the location of bin/env |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | Or anything else |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | I've been using /usr/bin/env for the main script for three years now, though |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | I may just shrug and standardize on that as more standard than Python's location. |
| 01:25 | < Xires> | #!`which env`? |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | Hah, does that even work? |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | I thought they had to be absolute constant paths |
| 01:26 | <&Derakon> | -bash: /tmp/t.sh `which: bad interpreter: No such file or directory |
| 01:27 | < Xires> | ci, the same |
| 01:27 | <&Derakon> | (This also does in the find-based approach I suggested earlier) |
| 01:28 | < Xires> | ci |
| 01:29 | <&McMartin> | Is "ci" short for something or just an affirmation? |
| 01:29 | | * McMartin is reading it like "sÃ" |
| 01:30 | < Xires> | it's pronounced the same |
| 01:32 | < Xires> | also the same meaning |
| 01:32 | | * McMartin nods. "Haven't encountered it before, is all." |
| 01:33 | < Xires> | found more commonly in Italian |
| 01:33 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 01:34 | < Xires> | but mostly I just grew used to it after years of CVS |
| 01:34 | < Xires> | I think the here script is probably the most effective |
| 01:34 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
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| 01:35 | <&McMartin> | Though it looks like the pull request here involves scripts that aren't the main ones |
| 01:35 | <&McMartin> | The main ones have been using /usr/bin/env for three years with nobody noticnig |
| 01:35 | < Xires> | no doubt |
| 01:35 | < Xires> | what's it failing on |
| 01:35 | < Xires> | (+?) |
| 01:35 | <&McMartin> | It might not be. |
| 01:35 | <&McMartin> | I think when it was /bin/env that failed on slackware but not Debian or Fedora |
| 01:36 | <&McMartin> | /usr/bin/python fails on NetBSD |
| 01:36 | < Xires> | Debian & Fedora symlink a lot of things in /bin to /usr/bin and vice-versa |
| 01:36 | < Xires> | Slackware tends to do this with much less frequency |
| 01:37 | < Xires> | Archlinux also prefers avoiding extraneous symlinks |
| 01:37 | < Xires> | I don't think it's LSB, but /usr/bin/env is definitely a de facto standard so most recent distributions will probably not show problems |
| 01:40 | < Xires> | if you know that /bin/sh is available on all platforms, then the here script is most likely to handle all those issues |
| 01:40 | < Xires> | kinda wish I could think of a good excuse for shar-ing the python script but that may cause even more problems |
| 01:41 | <&McMartin> | Hee |
| 01:41 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, we are well into "overengineering solutions to a minor problem" territory here |
| 01:41 | < Xires> | ci |
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| 02:44 | < [R]> | McMartin: /usr/bin/env (this is where it usually is) |
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| 02:46 | <&McMartin> | R: Yes. My annoyance is that "usually" leads to "now you have two problems" |
| 02:48 | < [R]> | Hailey1 ~ # ./tmp.sh |
| 02:48 | < [R]> | Hello, World! |
| 02:48 | < [R]> | Hailey1 ~ # cat !!:0 |
| 02:48 | < [R]> | cat ./tmp.sh |
| 02:48 | < [R]> | #!/bin/sh |
| 02:48 | < [R]> | python <<<"\\ |
| 02:48 | < [R]> | print('Hello, World!')" |
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| 02:57 | < [R]> | Hailey1 ~ # ./tmp.sh ; cat tmp.sh |
| 02:57 | < [R]> | Hello, World! |
| 02:57 | < [R]> | #!/bin/sh |
| 02:57 | < [R]> | tail -n +4 $0 | python |
| 02:57 | < [R]> | exit |
| 02:57 | < [R]> | # This is where Python starts |
| 02:57 | < [R]> | # Note that the `exit` is needed to get bash to stop |
| 02:57 | < [R]> | print('Hello, World!') |
| 02:58 | < [R]> | ^Alternative |
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| 04:37 | <~Vornicus> | Oh, I'm reminded, I've got a thing I wanted to do for a while and I have no idea whether it can be done or not. I have a file with commands for an interactive program in it, and I want to execute the program, run the commands in the file, and then get an interactive prompt afterwards. |
| 04:38 | <&Derakon> | So you want a program script that does some stuff and then gives you a REPL? |
| 04:39 | <~Vornicus> | The REPL of the program that I'm running the script in, specifically |
| 04:39 | <&Derakon> | Should be doable; see e.g. https://docs.python.org/2/library/code.html |
| 04:39 | <&Derakon> | See where it says [locals] in the parameters? |
| 04:39 | <&Derakon> | The locals() function returns the contents of the namespace in the current execution context, which, if done at the right place, should basically be the program state for your program. |
| 04:41 | <&Derakon> | import code |
| 04:41 | <&Derakon> | foo = 5 |
| 04:41 | <&Derakon> | code.interact("Hello, world!", local = locals()) |
| 04:41 | <&Derakon> | Hello, world! |
| 04:41 | <&Derakon> | >>> foo |
| 04:41 | <&Derakon> | 5 |
| 04:41 | <~Vornicus> | Part of the problem here is that much of the time I have no control over the program itself. |
| 04:41 | <&Derakon> | (Last 3 lines are the output of the program and me interacting with it) |
| 04:42 | <~Vornicus> | Like, I didn't write it. |
| 04:42 | <&Derakon> | ?you want to implement your own debugger? |
| 04:42 | <~Vornicus> | No, I want to |
| 04:43 | <~Vornicus> | I have a program that is interactive. I didn't write it; I can't add this capability to it. |
| 04:44 | <~Vornicus> | What I have is a series of commands that I wish to execute often, and after which I want to be able to continue to command the program from stdin |
| 04:44 | <~Vornicus> | So piping or using an input file doesn't work straight-up: once the pipe or input file is exhausted, the program exits, which I don't want. |
| 04:45 | <&Derakon> | Mm, if by "interactive" you mean "already has a REPL in it" then you should be able to just import the script you want to run. |
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| 05:03 | < [R]> | Vornicus: there's a simple readline program around that lets you apply readline() to things that don't normally provide it, just do: (cat intro; readline) | python |
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| 05:04 | < [R]> | (Or whatever you have as the program run) |
| 05:05 | < [R]> | However, IIRC Python offers python -i script.py |
| 05:05 | <~Vornicus> | That's approximately the goal. yay! |
| 05:06 | < [R]> | Which works better. |
| 05:06 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah. The difficulty is that it's not python |
| 05:06 | < [R]> | Ah yeah |
| 05:06 | < [R]> | I had to do this with node.js |
| 05:06 | < [R]> | Works sort-of well, just you do lose all the normal tab-complete stuff |
| 05:08 | <~Vornicus> | yeah |
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| 12:52 | <@gnolam> | Well, cock. |
| 12:54 | <@gnolam> | Something apparently broke in the last update that couldn't possibly have broken. |
| 12:54 | < luke> | Computers: defying possibility, daily. |
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| 12:55 | <@gnolam> | And now: troubleshooting a process control that might require physical access to the machine being controlled, remotely. >_> |
| 12:56 | < luke> | That usually involves telephony and a competent person on the other end. |
| 13:07 | <~Vornicus> | okay curl is my tiny web grabbing god. |
| 13:09 | <@Azash> | "that couldn't possibly have broken" |
| 13:09 | <@Azash> | Congrats, ya jinxed it |
| 13:09 | <@RchrdB> | Vornicus, :) |
| 13:31 | <@gnolam> | I don't think jinxes are retroactive. |
| 13:33 | < luke> | It's reverse self-fufilling prophecy. |
| 13:34 | <@Azash> | But you probably thought so earlier |
| 13:35 | < luke> | This is bordering on confusing now. |
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| 13:37 | <@Azash> | luke: Pardon? |
| 13:38 | <@Azash> | Oh right |
| 13:38 | <@Azash> | What I meant was that gnolam probably had the thought "It couldn't possibly be X.." |
| 13:39 | <@Azash> | Before he confirmed it |
| 13:42 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 13:43 | <@TheWatcher> | curl is indeed awesome, when wrapped in a helper library that divorces the user from the soul-devouring vistas of mind-shattering horror that is the library C API |
| 13:45 | < luke> | Real programmers just call straight into the kernel. |
| 13:47 | <@TheWatcher> | After programming it in machine code, via front-panel switches? |
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| 13:51 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[d00m] |
| 13:54 | < luke> | TheWatcher[d00m]: No silly, in assembly with a modern assembler. |
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| 14:12 | <@gnolam> | Well, that was... painless. |
| 14:13 | <@gnolam> | As in "unable to reproduce" and I think what went wrong the first time. |
| 14:14 | <@gnolam> | Phew. |
| 14:14 | <@gnolam> | Nothing had in fact broken! |
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| 14:16 | <@gnolam> | *I think I know |
| 14:18 | < luke> | User error? |
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| 17:16 | | * ErikMesoy receives feedback on his last programming exercise before exams. |
| 17:16 | <@celticminstrel> | Yay? |
| 17:16 | < ErikMesoy> | "Your answer on this question is correct, but your calculation is not." WTF. |
| 17:16 | < ErikMesoy> | I got 85/100, pass, good luck with the exams. |
| 17:16 | <@celticminstrel> | Uh, okay then. |
| 17:17 | < ErikMesoy> | But when I'm doing a Bayesian Probability Estimate that involves multiplying together several numbers in the 0-1 range, I'd be /very/ surprised to find that I actually did the wrong calculation and got the right answer. |
| 17:17 | < ErikMesoy> | I'd expect my calculation to be isomorphic to the "right" calculation, because this really seems like the sort of thing where a fuckup necessarily gives the wrong answer (it's not something where, for example, two sign errors will cancel out). |
| 17:18 | < ErikMesoy> | Oh well. Wrote a probability estimator, wrote a sentence parser, wrote some verb classifications, passed. Ready for exam in three weeks. |
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| 19:01 | < ErikMesoy> | http://imgur.com/gallery/YWFLq |
| 19:23 | <@Azash> | How it feels finishing a programming project http://www.theonion.com/articles/study-most-high-school-graduates-woefully-unpre par,36074/ |
| 19:28 | < ErikMesoy> | Azash: what, have you been writing in a write-only language? |
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| 19:29 | <@Azash> | Not since I last PHPed |
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| --- Log closed Wed May 21 00:00:42 2014 |