| --- Log opened Tue Apr 08 00:00:35 2014 |
| 00:08 | <@RchrdB> | there is an FAQ about deletion order in Python-2.7.5/Objects/typeobject.c |
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| 00:21 | <@RchrdB> | No wonder the documentation is inscrutable, the behaviour that the code implements is complicated too. ¬_¬ |
| 00:30 | <&McMartin> | Man, that heartbleed bug is serious business |
| 00:43 | <@RchrdB> | I find it a little iffy. |
| 00:43 | <@RchrdB> | Not the bug, the way it's being publicised. |
| 00:43 | <@RchrdB> | That is *not* what I'd call "responsible disclosure". |
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| 00:50 | <&McMartin> | This seems to be at the level of "um, you may have been broadcasting your private keys for three years" |
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| 00:51 | <&McMartin> | At which point your paranoia teams I think should be assuming the cat is very thoroughly out of the bag |
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| 00:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | aaaa fuck argparse |
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| 01:37 | <@RchrdB> | aaaa firefox just segfaulted with a massive python rant in progress |
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| 01:41 | <@RchrdB> | ToxicFrog, http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/631 â read the sources to work out what I think the semantics are. |
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| 01:42 | <@RchrdB> | oh, I forgot one thing |
| 01:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | RchrdB: er |
| 01:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | like I said ages ago |
| 01:42 | <@celticminstrel> | I wish I could tell XCode to not step into C++ library headers. |
| 01:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | I'm completely ignoring this until I get into work tomorrow and can construct a minimal test case |
| 01:43 | <@celticminstrel> | Sometimes it steps into them even when I tell it to "step over". |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Knowing the semantics doesn't help at all when I don't have the faulty code to check against |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | At the moment I am working on something completely different and, since rolling my own argv parser is a pain in the ass, decided to use argparse |
| 01:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | This appears to have been a terrible mistake |
| 01:43 | <@RchrdB> | getopt? It's been in the stdlib for ages. |
| 01:43 | <@RchrdB> | corrected: http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/632 |
| 01:44 | <@celticminstrel> | How on earth are there three ampersands in a row in this signature. |
| 01:45 | <@RchrdB> | ToxicFrog, yeah anyway, I wanted to know what the semantics were because I actually didn't know what happened if you mixed properties with __getattribute__(). |
| 01:46 | <@RchrdB> | so you can still have AttributeError in a descriptor get suppressed in favour of trying __getattr__(), but you shouldn't see any other exceptions get suppressed. |
| 01:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | RchrdB: no, argparse, getopt is deprecated and has been for ages |
| 01:48 | <@RchrdB> | Deprecated my butt, they haven't bothered to make it emit deprecation warnings. |
| 01:49 | <@RchrdB> | No, it's really not marked deprecated anywhere in 2.x or 3.x's docs. |
| 01:49 | <@celticminstrel> | ...wait, did this error start when I tried using threads. |
| 01:49 | <@celticminstrel> | Because accessing something that was in a thread after the thread died would cause a segfault, right? |
| 01:50 | <@RchrdB> | celticminstrel, what do you mean by "in a thread"? |
| 01:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | RchrdB: oh, it's optparse that is deprecated |
| 01:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Uh, not quite sure. |
| 01:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | And getopt that is a python implementation of the C getopt api |
| 01:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which is only barely better than rolling your own parser, hence my attempt to use argparse |
| 01:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Wait, it wasn't passed by reference... |
| 01:51 | <@RchrdB> | celticminstrel, let's say we have threads t0 and t1 and a global char* c. t0 runs for a bit, saves a pointer into an argument on its stack into c, then terminates. t1 then attempts to dereference *c. t1 may segfault because t0's stack has been deallocated. |
| 01:52 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, that would be what's happening here, I think. |
| 01:52 | <@celticminstrel> | But why did it work before I used threads? I'm pretty sure it shouldn't've. |
| 01:52 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh well, I guess I have to convert to boost::any sooner than I wanted to. |
| 01:52 | <@RchrdB> | because you had only one stack, and you were always touching *c from procedure calls that came *after* the assignment to c? |
| 01:53 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe? |
| 01:53 | <@RchrdB> | er, *after* the assignment to c and *before* the function invocation which assigned the address of one of its local variables to c, returned? |
| 01:53 | <@celticminstrel> | I think it was after the function returned. |
| 01:53 | <@RchrdB> | celticminstrel, do you have the ability to run your code under valgrind? |
| 01:53 | <@celticminstrel> | But not long after. |
| 01:53 | <@celticminstrel> | I probably do have the ability to do that. |
| 01:54 | <@RchrdB> | Uh okay. Accessing a pointer to a local variable in a function invocation that already returned⦠is undefined behaviour. |
| 01:54 | <@celticminstrel> | I've done it before, and usually it leads to segfaults and stuff, but this time it didn't. Though it could be I'm just not exactly clear on what's happening here. |
| 01:55 | <@RchrdB> | Unfortunately it usually doesn't segfault (!), because in practice compilers don't have any good mechanism for marking the currently-unused-due-to-having-popped-those-frames-by-returning bit of the stack as read-only. |
| 01:55 | <@RchrdB> | s/usually/often/ |
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| 01:55 | <@celticminstrel> | And in this particular case, it could've worked if the memory where it had been allocated was still as it had been, since I was storing the pointer as an integer. |
| 01:55 | <@RchrdB> | Okay, you need to stop doing⦠all of that. |
| 01:56 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, like I said, I'm going to convert to boost::any. |
| 01:57 | <@RchrdB> | Dereferencing a pointer or reference to a local variable, after the function invocation in which it was allocated returned, is undef behaviour. If your program "works" with undefined behaviour in it, then it's really only working by _coincidence_. ¬_¬ |
| 01:57 | <@celticminstrel> | And as soon as I introduced threads, it broke, I think. |
| 01:57 | <@celticminstrel> | Or maybe it broke before that, I can't quite remember/ |
| 01:57 | <@celticminstrel> | ^. |
| 01:57 | <@RchrdB> | celticminstrel, but hey yeah, introducing threads seems to have turned your subtle undef-behaviour bug into a nice clean segfault bug. ;) |
| 01:58 | <@celticminstrel> | Indeed, so I guess that's good. |
| 01:58 | <@RchrdB> | celticminstrel, btw, are you on Windows? |
| 01:58 | <@celticminstrel> | I had planned to do fix this anyway, though. |
| 01:58 | <@celticminstrel> | No, Mac. |
| 01:59 | <@RchrdB> | Good. Use valgrind. You're already using valgrind, right? valgrind valgrind valgrind valgrind valgrind valgrind, like seriously everything to do with C and C++ gets like fifty times easier when you have an automated tool for picking up much (but unfortunately not all) bad behaviour that would normally be accidentally silently accepted. |
| 02:00 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not explicitly using valgrind. |
| 02:00 | <@RchrdB> | Seen Lego Movie? I want you to start repeating "valgrind" like the 80s spaceman repeats "spaceship". |
| 02:00 | <@celticminstrel> | I haven't seen it, no. |
| 02:01 | <@RchrdB> | You should, it has lasers, robots, explosions, pirates⦠|
| 02:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | VALGRIND |
| 02:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | And yeah, stop storing your pointers as ints. |
| 02:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | (if you absolutely must do this for some reason, use intptr_t) |
| 02:02 | <@celticminstrel> | I wrote the code to do that three or four years ago. |
| 02:02 | <@celticminstrel> | (It was stored as an unsigned long long.) |
| 02:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, switching to boost::any was trivial, involved deleting 90% of my inline template file, and made it Just Work. |
| 02:05 | <@RchrdB> | \o/ |
| 02:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh goddamnit |
| 02:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | argparse has no provisions for triggering on arbitrary flags? |
| 02:06 | <@celticminstrel> | But now I've broken modality again. Sigh. |
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| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | valgrind is sadly useless in SDL code because SDL leaks X descriptors and produces megabytes of output unrelated to your code but holy shit man, I can't prove you didn't leak 478 bytes |
| 02:29 | <@celticminstrel> | Argh, that "can't fetch event on worker thread" is really annoying. |
| 02:30 | <@celticminstrel> | I think it means I have to revert to not using threads, somehow. |
| 02:30 | <&McMartin> | What do you mean "can't fetch event on worker thread"? |
| 02:30 | <&McMartin> | If your worker thread needs access to the event stream it is *not a worker thread* |
| 02:30 | <@celticminstrel> | I dunno, it's coming from Cocoa's event system and spamming my console. |
| 02:31 | <@celticminstrel> | I assume Cocoa designates the main thread a worker thread and won't dispatch events to any other thread, or something. |
| 02:31 | <@celticminstrel> | Sure, I guess it's not a worker thread, but Cocoa doesn't know this. |
| 02:34 | <@celticminstrel> | If I use threads here, either both need to access the event queue or the temporary thread needs to access the event queue while the main thread waits. |
| 02:35 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not sure I actually need threads; the point is to make a window modal. |
| 02:35 | <&McMartin> | That should be a flag in QDialog. |
| 02:35 | <@celticminstrel> | I have no idea what a QDialog is. I'm trying to use Cocoa directly as little as possible. |
| 02:36 | <&McMartin> | I was under the impression you were using Qt. |
| 02:36 | <@celticminstrel> | No, I'm not. |
| 02:36 | <&McMartin> | Ah. What *are* you using? |
| 02:36 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not using a GUI framework. |
| 02:36 | <&McMartin> | ... so, um, that means you're using Cocoa directly for the entire program. |
| 02:37 | <&McMartin> | Dialogs should have some flag to set in whatever it is you are using that says modal/nonmodal. |
| 02:37 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not using a library that gives me dialogs; I'm implementing dialogs using a graphics engine. |
| 02:38 | <@celticminstrel> | Something like SDL (it's actually SFML). |
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| 02:41 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, the implementation is more or less finished. I'm just trying to add modality to it. |
| 02:47 | <@celticminstrel> | I actually have it working, but the way it's implemented seems to cause other issues. |
| 02:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Although, maybe that's an issue with something else. |
| 02:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Ohhh. |
| 02:51 | <@celticminstrel> | I was telling it to sleep for 8 seconds. |
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| 02:51 | <@celticminstrel> | When in fact I wanted 8 "ticks". |
| 02:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Or uh. |
| 02:52 | <@celticminstrel> | I think that's about 133 milliseconds. |
| 02:53 | <@celticminstrel> | So maybe the problem wasn't where I thought it was at all. |
| 02:54 | <~Vornicus> | 125 ms/f = 8 fps |
| 02:58 | <@celticminstrel> | A tick in this context seems to be about 1/60th of a second. |
| 03:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Blargh, I accidentally closed a tab. |
| 03:06 | <@celticminstrel> | Framerate is irrelevant here, the waiting time was to let a sound finish. |
| 03:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Also framerate is largely irrelevant anyway, since everything is turn-based. (But there's animations, so it's relevant there.) |
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| 05:00 | < froztbyt1> | http://heartbleed.com/ |
| 05:00 | < froztbyt1> | http://filippo.io/Heartbleed/ |
| 05:00 | < froztbyt1> | everyone click that ritenao |
| 05:00 | < froztbyt1> | (seriously) |
| 05:00 | < froztbyt1> | if you're in any way associated with software or servers |
| 05:00 | < Xon> | openssl. /why/ did you fuckup so hard |
| 05:02 | <@celticminstrel> | ? |
| 05:03 | < Xon> | celticminstrel, unauthenticated, and unlogged, remote 64kb reads to the process hosting openssl |
| 05:04 | < Xon> | http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/04/critical-crypto-bug-in-openssl-opens-two -thirds-of-the-web-to-eavesdropping |
| 05:04 | < Xon> | the researchers demonstrated being able to recover private keys in memory of apache |
| 05:04 | <@celticminstrel> | ... |
| 05:04 | <@celticminstrel> | First Apple, now OpenSSL... |
| 05:05 | < Xon> | Apple, GnuTLS now OpenSSL =p |
| 05:05 | < Xon> | (well GnuTLS's flaws have been around a hell of a lot longer) |
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| 05:17 | <@celticminstrel> | I hadn't heard of the GnuTLS one until that article. |
| 05:19 | < Xon> | GnuTLS is because GnuTLS is baddly written |
| 05:21 | <@celticminstrel> | I really need to go through this code and remove the millions of unused variables. It makes it harder to see the actually useful warnings. |
| 05:22 | < Xon> | warn as error =p |
| 05:22 | <@celticminstrel> | Not for that one. |
| 05:22 | < Xon> | lol |
| 05:22 | <@celticminstrel> | I did set -Werror=format |
| 05:22 | < Xon> | it's really only viable for new projects |
| 05:22 | <@celticminstrel> | I might set it for non-void functions not returning as well. |
| 05:22 | <@celticminstrel> | It might be viable, but I don't think I'd set it anyway. |
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| 05:37 | <@celticminstrel> | I would also set it for ObjC selectors not existing, but when I tried that clang complained the flag was unrecognized. |
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| 08:40 | <@gnolam> | froztbyt1: o_O |
| 08:41 | < froztbyt1> | yup |
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| --- Log closed Tue Apr 08 12:37:11 2014 |
| --- Log opened Tue Apr 08 12:37:21 2014 |
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| 16:06 | <@celticminstrel> | It's really odd how XCode can't store more than one search key. |
| 16:07 | <@celticminstrel> | To the extent that if you have search visible in two windows at once, you can type in one field and notice the contents of the other search field matching it. |
| 16:11 | | Thalass [thalass@Nightstar-90oetb.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 16:43 | <@celticminstrel> | If I have colours whose components are in the range 0..65535, and I want to convert them to the range 0..255 while (when possible) not altering the colour at all, how would I do it? (And when not possible, altering it as little as possible.) |
| 16:43 | <@celticminstrel> | Divide by 255? |
| 16:44 | <@gnolam> | Divide by 256. |
| 16:44 | <@celticminstrel> | Alright. |
| 16:45 | <@celticminstrel> | Incidentally, doesn't "256 colours" imply 8-bit components? |
| 16:45 | <@celticminstrel> | Or maybe even less? |
| 16:46 | <@gnolam> | "256 colours" says you have a color palette of 256 colors. It doesn't specify the number of bits per channel. |
| 16:47 | <@gnolam> | (If you're talking classic mode 13h, it's 6 bits per channel) |
| 16:47 | <@celticminstrel> | Whatever it meant on Mac Classic. |
| 16:59 | | AnnoDomini is now known as Julius |
| 17:56 | < simon> | has anyone here played with WebM yet? |
| 17:56 | < simon> | it seems really slick. |
| 18:15 | <@JackKnife> | I've hated the implementation Firefox used to use back when Youtube ran its HTML5 trial and firefox used WebM. |
| 18:15 | <@JackKnife> | That doesn't really count though. |
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| 18:57 | <@celticminstrel> | Calling glDisable(blah) without having called glEnable(blah) wouldn't cause any problems, would it? |
| 19:02 | <@Tamber> | That's rather an optimistic attitude to take. |
| 19:02 | <@Tamber> | It'll probably result in everything imploding. |
| 19:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, I didn't think it was likely. |
| 19:05 | < simon> | JackKnife, right, I did actually find Firefox'es a little annoying. |
| 19:06 | <@gnolam> | celticminstrel: nope. That's perfectly allowed. |
| 19:07 | <@Tamber> | Huh. |
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| 19:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Argh, TextEdit, why do you not show newly installed fonts. |
| 19:34 | <@celticminstrel> | Even after restarting. |
| 19:34 | <@celticminstrel> | TextEdit, not the computer, |
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| 21:11 | <@Julius> | What's a good tree data structure? I find that Qt lacks one. |
| 21:12 | <@RchrdB> | Julius, you're working in C++ and do you want a mapping that you can iterate in sorted order, or do you want a rose tree? |
| 21:12 | <@Azash> | Do you mean a tree or an implementation? |
| 21:13 | <@RchrdB> | IIRC, std::map is a Red-Black tree in most C++ STL implementations. |
| 21:13 | <@Julius> | I want to model a star system. I want to traverse parent-child relations up and down. |
| 21:16 | <@RchrdB> | Julius, I've not tried any, but http://stackoverflow.com/a/206011 looks promising. |
| 21:18 | | Julius is now known as AnnoDomini |
| 21:19 | <@RchrdB> | adobe::forest sounds like the data structure you want, but it looks like they omit parent pointers to save memory. |
| 21:21 | <@TheWatcher> | Honestly, for something like that, I'd just roll my own |
| 21:22 | <@AnnoDomini> | Mm'kay. Sounds interesting to try. |
| 21:22 | <@AnnoDomini> | How does one make a tree? |
| 21:24 | <@RchrdB> | The data structure that you just asked for is: struct Forest< leaf > { public leaf data; public std::vector< Forest< leaf > > children; } |
| 21:24 | <@TheWatcher> | OBjection! |
| 21:24 | <@RchrdB> | Oh, you also want parent pointers. |
| 21:24 | <@TheWatcher> | quite |
| 21:25 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes. Parent and child pointers I require. Sibling pointers are optional. |
| 21:25 | <@RchrdB> | More like: struct Forest<leaf> { leaf data; std::vector< Forest<leaf> > children; Forest<leaf> *parent; } |
| 21:26 | <@RchrdB> | Note that finding your own index amongst your parent's children is O(this->parent->children.size()), but that will probably be fine for you. |
| 21:28 | <@RchrdB> | If each child has a variable containing their own index into the parents' children vector, then operations like removing the first child get more expensive because you have to renumber the rest. |
| 21:36 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'll try to think on this later, when my mind is clearer. |
| 21:36 | <@AnnoDomini> | Thanks. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Apr 09 00:00:21 2014 |