| --- Log opened Thu Feb 06 00:00:27 2014 |
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| 01:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | tests <3 |
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| 01:41 | | * ToxicFrog makes a bunch of backwards-compatibility-breaking changes to his libary |
| 01:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hrm. |
| 01:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | I need a syntax for format string splicing. |
| 01:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | I can't use $name, because $ is reserved for future expansion as backreferences. |
| 01:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | I also can't use *, (), {}, [], or :, which are already used by other syntactic elements. |
| 01:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | Current frontrunner is @name. |
| 01:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | Thoughts? |
| 01:57 | <&Derakon> | I don't understand what problem you're trying to solve. |
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| 02:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | Derakon: it is often the case when working with binary formats that the same substructure occurs in multiple places. |
| 02:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | E.g. SS1 has the weapon_info_t that includes various damage-related information, which shows up in multiple different record types in the gamesys. |
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| 02:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's convenient to be able to include this in multiple places without needing to either repeat the whole thing or manually splice strings together, e.g. |
| 02:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | vstruct.register("weapon-info", "<format of weapon_info_t>") |
| 02:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | vstruct.unpack("@weapon-info <bunch of other fields>", fd) |
| 02:13 | <&Derakon> | Okay, so you want something vaguely like the C preprocessor/macros. |
| 02:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | The splice is semantic rather than textual, but yes |
| 02:14 | <&Derakon> | And specifically, you need a way to indicate "insert <content previously labeled with X> here." |
| 02:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 02:15 | <&Derakon> | I think @name works fine. Something that brackets the substitution would be preferable, IMO, if only to allow for more naturalistic labels (e.g. "monster struct" instead of "monsterStruct"), so I guess you could use <>. |
| 02:15 | <&Derakon> | But honestly that's not a big deal. |
| 02:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | <> I probably want to save for future expansion; things you can balance are valuable. |
| 02:16 | <&Derakon> | Fairynuff. |
| 02:18 | <@celticminstrel> | You can balance anything! |
| 02:18 | <@celticminstrel> | " ' ` / are just some of the strange characters used for balancing. :P |
| 02:19 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, and | |
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| 02:42 | <@celticminstrel> | Aw, only Firefox supports the yield keyword so far... |
| 02:42 | <@celticminstrel> | Safari, Chrome, and Opera don't support it. |
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| 03:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh wait shit |
| 03:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | I can't use @, that's already used for 'seek to' |
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| 04:01 | <~Vornicus> | What symbols have you used? |
| 04:01 | <~Vornicus> | and what symbols are parts of names? |
| 04:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Punctuation: {}[]()|* |
| 04:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Format specifiers: <>=@+- and all letters |
| 04:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also punctuation: ., |
| 04:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | And : |
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| 04:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | Names: alphanumerics, _, and . |
| 04:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | Names of registered formats: any non-whitespace |
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| 04:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: does that help? |
| 04:07 | <~Vornicus> | Haven't used # yet |
| 04:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's true. |
| 04:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Or ~ or % |
| 04:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Or & |
| 04:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | # has meaning in the host language (length-of), so I'm kind of reluctant to use it for something totally different here |
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| 05:24 | < Orth> | Comfort food for the win |
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| 08:15 | < Erik> | Due to funky workplace policies regarding installation of modules, I find myself writing a parser to get information out of HTML and print it over to XML. Aaaaargh. |
| 08:16 | < Erik> | And no, I can't even point the script at the webpage. I have to download the webpage first. |
| 08:17 | < Erik> | Days like this make me think the Technological Singularity will never happen, due to stalling on the Pile Of Ugly Hacks Singularity. |
| 08:42 | <&McMartin> | See also the AM/FM distinction~ |
| 08:42 | <&McMartin> | (Actual Machines vs. Fucking Magic) |
| 08:43 | < Erik> | hee |
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| 10:02 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 10:10 | <@TheWatcher> | Erik: I guessing you can't just install the required modules local to your script? |
| 10:11 | <@TheWatcher> | Or is it just MODULES VERBOTEN! |
| 10:11 | <@TheWatcher> | (Real Programmers do not need modules! They code everything for scratch, using front-panel toggle switches, in the dark!) |
| 10:20 | < Erik> | TL;DR modules require elevated installer access that I don't have. |
| 10:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Huh, 'kay |
| 10:24 | | * TheWatcher begins lifing code from MIST AVIARY to shove into CODICIL WINTER HILL, hopes this works.... |
| 10:26 | | Syka [the@Nightstar-ed9.2b3.127.1.IP] has joined #code |
| 10:29 | <~Vornicus> | what's CODICIL WINTER HILL, and where can I use your name generator? |
| 10:40 | <@TheWatcher> | It's a news and information authoring and publishing system, used to 'broadcast' content to students, staff, and others via a mix of RSS, email, twitter, and integration with locally run VLEs. |
| 10:40 | <@TheWatcher> | (Winter Hill is the site of one of the tallest, most powerful TV and radio transmitter masts in the UK) |
| 10:41 | <@TheWatcher> | And my name generator is alas firmly wedged between my ears |
| 10:44 | | * thalass eyes |
| 10:45 | < thalass> | So... you're allowed to write and execute programs, but not allowed to install them? What damage could a downloaded program (or component) do that you couldn't do with your own fingers? |
| 10:45 | <@TheWatcher> | It could bypass bureaucracy!~ |
| 10:46 | < thalass> | That's like the stupid security crap pilots have to go through to get on their aircraft, when they have their hands on the controls of said aircraft in flight... |
| 10:46 | < thalass> | But they'd better take their shoes off to go through the metal detector! |
| 10:50 | <~Vornicus> | ime the most likely answer is "then we have to ask legal to go figure out if we're allowed to use that" |
| 10:51 | <@TheWatcher> | (with a good chance they'll say no anyway, because they Don't Understand Computers) |
| 10:53 | < thalass> | bah |
| 10:53 | < thalass> | The world is a mess... and i just need to rule it. |
| 10:54 | <@TheWatcher> | (there's an ongoing low-level argument here about whether cetain pieces of software are allowed under 'data protection' policies - with the position the lawyer are trying to take making it effectively impossible to use any software whatsoever) |
| 10:54 | <@TheWatcher> | *lawyers |
| 10:55 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 10:55 | < Erik> | thalass: I am allowed to install some things. There's a special thingy for getting elevated installer access. |
| 10:57 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[d00m] |
| 10:57 | < Erik> | I don't understand how the hell the system works; it seems fairly trivial to lock me out of running .exe and .msi files, but I don't understand how I can write and run Python code but I can't use the integrated plugin adder in Notepad++ for example |
| 10:58 | < Erik> | I've been through the elevated installation process once for getting the Python installer to run, but it doesn't need separate invocation for individual scripts. |
| 10:58 | < Erik> | :watman: |
| 10:59 | < thalass> | odd |
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| 11:57 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 12:30 | < Shiz> | >For me, Bootstrap is very fun, not serious ā nearly every line is a joke. Itās trying to provoke you. Taking shortcuts. Demanding that you reread it. Reread it again. Itās very pop. Very optimistic, yung. Forward. Playful. |
| 12:30 | < Shiz> | and this ladies and gentlemen |
| 12:30 | < Shiz> | is why i don't do webdev |
| 12:31 | < Erik> | What is this, LOLCODE? |
| 12:40 | <&jerith> | Shiz: Webdev isn't the problem there. Crappy JS is the problem. |
| 12:40 | < Shiz> | well |
| 12:41 | < Shiz> | crappy JS is getting more and more prominent in webdev |
| 12:43 | <&jerith> | Yes, but you don't have to use every crappy library that comes along. |
| 12:56 | <@TheWatcher> | ^-- |
| 12:56 | <@TheWatcher> | The problem isn't webdev as such |
| 12:56 | <@TheWatcher> | it's incompetent coders combined with fadding, crappy javascript stupidity |
| 12:56 | <@TheWatcher> | There are some of us who manage to do webdev without that shit |
| 13:01 | < Xon> | TheWatcher, no kidding. I had a coworker in ~2 weeks replace a sprawlling mess than another 3 coworkers made over several months (php mess -> python) |
| 13:03 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, there are some good devs out there. And a lot of them that think they are. |
| 13:03 | <@TheWatcher> | (but that goes for all programming, I think. It's just more painfully obvious with webdev) |
| 13:04 | < Xon> | so true |
| 13:04 | < Xon> | I *know* I wrote a pile of rubbish in the same project, but in my defense we needed another 6 months and I spent almost 1.5 months doing an accounts data migration with only 2-3 days of manual fixups |
| 13:05 | < Xon> | (and I dearly regret flobbing off the design of how the system records payments. SO MUCH) |
| 13:06 | < Xon> | (and this system doesn't record everything, but rather just helpful stubs into the actual billing system. but /ugh/ at how baddly it's been fucked up) |
| 13:06 | < Xon> | that one was a team work job |
| 13:09 | < Xon> | Erik, I just wish ops would stop getting me todo sysadmin work so I could stop needing root passwords to so many systems =S |
| 13:10 | <@TheWatcher> | that's what sudo is for~ |
| 13:11 | < Xon> | heh |
| 13:12 | < Xon> | I've got that for a bunch of boxes too =( |
| 13:12 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 13:14 | < Xon> | TheWatcher, a major automation project @ work is almost at the stage where I can stop manually running about a dozen SQL reports against a billing database. except I need to fix so much other stuff >.< |
| 13:23 | | * Erik attempts to split on the following string in square brackets: [/' > '] |
| 13:24 | < Erik> | I think it's reasonable to assume that if your folder name or address contains the string /' > ' then you have fucked up and something is terribly, terribly wrong and you probably have bigger problems than my code not finding the path of your files probably. |
| 13:24 | < Xon> | haha |
| 13:25 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
| 13:26 | < Erik> | Assuming that nobody has stuffed that many special characters into their namespace, this is how I'm going to locate "end of address, beginning of name" in a line of HTML. |
| 13:26 | <@TheWatcher> | You could say that the problems are simply greater than your code not finding the files properly~ |
| 13:28 | < Erik> | Yeah, meant "properly" at the end there. >_> |
| 13:28 | < Syka> | Erik: DO NOT PARSE HTML USING REGEXPS. |
| 13:28 | < Syka> | or shitty standins for regexps |
| 13:28 | < Syka> | use a html parser and scan the nodes |
| 13:30 | < Erik> | Syka: Installing an HTML parser would require going through the elevated access rigamarole, and I am not trying to *parse* HTML. I am merely locating the end of an overgrown a tag. |
| 13:31 | | * Syka bats Erik with lxml |
| 13:31 | < Erik> | Something like <a ID='bob' title='wut' href='www.lol.wat/wtf/' > |
| 13:32 | < Erik> | Then I split on href=' and /' > ' to get the address out. This is not an HTML parser, and you do not need to tell me that HTML cannot be parsed with regexps. |
| 13:32 | < Syka> | make sure you do it according to " and ' |
| 13:32 | < Syka> | and HREF= and HREF = "" and and and |
| 13:41 | < Syka> | god |
| 13:41 | < Syka> | i totally need to find a job |
| 13:41 | < Syka> | because i am sick of desktop support |
| 13:41 | < Syka> | this current project is basically attempting to keep a network going that is fucking filled with conficker |
| 13:42 | < Turaiel> | You could come to the US and slap some sense into the IT department here. |
| 13:42 | < Syka> | no pls |
| 13:42 | < Syka> | i don't want to get shot |
| 13:43 | < Turaiel> | That's okay. Michigan doesn't have laws allowing firearms to be carried anyway. |
| 13:43 | < Syka> | i don't want to die of awful healthcare :<<<< |
| 13:44 | < Erik> | Come to Norway and help me parse HTML with regexps. :VVVV |
| 13:44 | < Syka> | norway? can do |
| 13:44 | < Turaiel> | But at least you get a doctor within an hour :P |
| 13:44 | | * Syka gets the first plane over, smashes Erik's computer with a hammer, then relaxes in the snow |
| 13:44 | < Syka> | Turaiel: well |
| 13:44 | < Erik> | might not be well-formed, but I can guarantee that it's at least predictably malformed. :p |
| 13:44 | < Syka> | i went in to the local clinic here |
| 13:44 | < Syka> | and saw a doctor within 45 minutes |
| 13:44 | < Erik> | Because there are few to no humans involved in making this HTML; humans make folders, and an autogen makes the webpage listing folders |
| 13:44 | < Syka> | (without an appointment) |
| 13:45 | < Turaiel> | That's pretty much the only bad thing I've heard about socialized healthcare, and clearly that's not the case everywhere. |
| 13:45 | < Syka> | what, that people use it? |
| 13:45 | < Turaiel> | That it's hard to see a doctor in a reasonable amount of time |
| 13:45 | < Turaiel> | So yeah, I guess |
| 13:45 | < Syka> | that's mostly bullshit |
| 13:46 | < Turaiel> | Though we have that problem here anyway |
| 13:46 | < Syka> | admittedly the hospitals are always a bit full |
| 13:46 | < Syka> | but |
| 13:46 | < Syka> | we also have a lot more people using them |
| 13:46 | < Turaiel> | Last time I went to the doctor, I waited an hour or two in the waiting room, then another 45 minutes in the exam room |
| 13:46 | < Syka> | because you can go to the doc about a cough and not be in debt for six years |
| 13:46 | | * Erik also looks up Michigan, finds it to be a shall-issue state on gun permits. |
| 13:46 | < Syka> | i am going to go for my pistol license :> |
| 13:47 | | * Syka needs to go herp derp at the pistol club some more |
| 13:47 | | * Syka shot a S&W .357 Magnum the other week, it was wonderful :D |
| 13:47 | < Erik> | (if you meet the requirements, the Michigan authorities shall issue you a permit. as opposed to may-issue states, where you can meet the requirements and the authorities can deny you anyway because you look sleazy.) |
| 13:47 | < Syka> | haha |
| 13:47 | < Syka> | yeah, over here, the cops are like "*peers* yeahhh, I don't know" |
| 13:47 | < Turaiel> | Erik: but we don't have open/concealed carry unless you're security, methinks. |
| 13:48 | <@TheWatcher> | (Of course, are any of the requirements "thou shalt not look sleazy"?~) |
| 13:48 | < Syka> | hopefully one is "passes background check" |
| 13:49 | < Turaiel> | One more hour until I can go back to bed... |
| 13:49 | | * Erik goes look that up |
| 13:49 | | * TheWatcher preses Win+D |
| 13:50 | <@TheWatcher> | Yep, that's a background |
| 13:50 | < Erik> | ha |
| 13:50 | | * TheWatcher passes the background check, yey! |
| 13:50 | | * Turaiel is suddenly cold |
| 13:50 | < Syka> | Turaiel: just don't go into the light |
| 13:50 | < Syka> | it's a trap |
| 13:50 | < Turaiel> | TheWatcher made it windy :( |
| 13:50 | < Erik> | The state of Michigan shall issue concealed carry permits to people who meet 18 separate requirements, things like "be 21 years old" and "have no felony convictions" and "not have a diagnosed mental illness" and "have completed a pistol safety training course" etc. |
| 13:50 | < Turaiel> | Huh. |
| 13:51 | < Syka> | oh right |
| 13:51 | < Syka> | not have a diagnosed mental illness |
| 13:51 | < Erik> | Wikipedia may be wrong on this. |
| 13:51 | < Syka> | i hope that's not a WA permit requirement |
| 13:51 | < Syka> | because i am going to fail that so hard |
| 13:51 | < Erik> | Because who checks the accuracy of gun laws on Wikipedia? :p |
| 13:51 | < Turaiel> | Syka: wat. |
| 13:51 | < Syka> | Turaiel: what? |
| 13:51 | < Turaiel> | Wat |
| 13:51 | < Erik> | Watman |
| 13:51 | < Turaiel> | I saw the watman Javascript thing |
| 13:52 | < Syka> | ahh, good old gary bernhardt |
| 13:52 | < Turaiel> | Syka: I'm too tired to determine whether or not you're serious |
| 13:52 | < Syka> | Turaiel: watting about what |
| 13:52 | < Syka> | the mental illness thing? |
| 13:52 | < Turaiel> | Mhm |
| 13:52 | < Syka> | yeah |
| 13:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Talking of cold *eyes the thermometer in his office* 12C, wonderful! |
| 13:53 | < Syka> | i've been diagnosed with depression/anxiety and am on medication for it |
| 13:53 | < Syka> | (since like jan 7th) |
| 13:53 | < Turaiel> | Ah, well I don't think that counts >.> |
| 13:53 | < Syka> | i'm fairly sure that depression is something that would get you blacklisted pretty quickly |
| 13:53 | <&jerith> | Why not? It'd in the DSM IV. |
| 13:53 | < Syka> | (considering most of AU's gun deaths are suicides) |
| 13:54 | < Turaiel> | That's because all the other deaths come from everything being poisonous or vicious :P |
| 13:54 | < Syka> | Turaiel: actually |
| 13:54 | <&jerith> | I thought most of AU's gun deaths were kangaroos... |
| 13:54 | < Turaiel> | Nobody needs guns |
| 13:54 | < Syka> | nobody has really died from poison |
| 13:54 | < Syka> | because we have antidotes for snakes/spiders everywhere |
| 13:54 | < Erik> | But do you have platypus antidotes? :p |
| 13:54 | < Syka> | because of our ~communist health system~ |
| 13:54 | < Syka> | Erik: we don't have platypuses |
| 13:55 | < Syka> | well, in most of the country |
| 13:57 | < Xon> | Syka, that and most of the gune licence types have a 'Genuine need' clause |
| 13:57 | < Xon> | gun* |
| 13:58 | < Syka> | yeah |
| 13:59 | < Syka> | Xon: i'll join the pistol club |
| 13:59 | < Syka> | which gets me a license that lets me own a pistol, and use it at the range |
| 13:59 | < Syka> | (nowhere else, though) |
| 14:00 | < Xon> | ah |
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| 16:36 | < macdjord> | ToxicFrog: Re: Text Inertion: I would recomend &{name} to prevent ambiguity, with &name being a recognised alias when its not. |
| 16:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | macdjord: (a) {} is already used for tables; (b) where's the ambiguity? |
| 16:41 | < macdjord> | ToxicFrog: '&weaponinfo' - is that &weaponinfo, or &weapon followed by 'info'? |
| 16:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is unambiguously &weaponinfo. "info" on its own is a syntax error. |
| 16:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | "info:" is not, but "&weaponinfo:" is |
| 16:42 | < macdjord> | Ah, 'k. |
| 16:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...actually, no, &weaponinfo: is valid. It's the splice named "weaponinfo:". |
| 16:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Perhaps I should apply a few constraints to what is and is not a valid name (right now it's "any non-whitespace"); I could see it getting kind of confusing. |
| 16:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Although to some extent this is "don't choose stupid names for your formats" |
| 16:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | macdjord: so, I'm curious - why would &weaponinfo be potentially ambiguous, ever? |
| 16:49 | < macdjord> | my $weapon = 'sword'; print "${weapon}info" # should produce 'swordinfo' |
| 17:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 17:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | You misunderstand what this library is for. |
| 17:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is a more powerful analog to (for example) python's "struct" library. |
| 17:04 | < macdjord> | Ah, okay. |
| 17:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | & is used for the equivalent of: |
| 17:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | typedef struct { ... } weapon_info; |
| 17:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | typedef struct { weapon_info info; ... } sword; |
| 17:06 | | * macdjord nods |
| 17:06 | < macdjord> | Gotcha. |
| 17:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | (except that the contents of weapon_info are spliced directly into sword, rather than being a sub-struct) |
| 17:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | The docs are at github.com/toxicfrog/vstruct if you have any interest. |
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| 21:23 | | * abudhabi_ gotten to wondering whether the local public transit uses any kind of encryption in its electronic/magnetic tickets. |
| 21:23 | <@Tamber> | Probably not. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Feb 07 00:00:00 2014 |