| --- Log opened Sat Sep 21 00:00:23 2013 |
| 00:45 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 01:20 | < BuckD> | Learn about the top Google sniper http://7bb194y1y16u1o685klghnfu8u.hop.clickbank.net/ |
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| 01:26 | <@Azash> | This seems legitimate |
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| 07:59 | < [R]> | UGH! |
| 07:59 | < [R]> | Why are people so adverse to using switches? |
| 08:00 | <@Alek> | good question! |
| 08:00 | <@Alek> | I just installed one under the stairs, works fine! |
| 08:00 | < [R]> | :p |
| 08:01 | < [R]> | if (inputData.keyCode === ROT.VK_LEFT) { this.move(-1, 0, 0); |
| 08:01 | < [R]> | } else if (inputData.keyCode === ROT.VK_RIGHT) { this.move(1, 0, 0); |
| 08:01 | < [R]> | } else if (inputData.keyCode === ROT.VK_UP) { this.move(0, -1, 0); |
| 08:01 | < [R]> | } else if (inputData.keyCode === ROT.VK_DOWN) { this.move(0, 1, 0); |
| 08:01 | < [R]> | } else if (inputData.keyCode === ROT.VK_I) { // ... |
| 08:01 | < [R]> | srsly. |
| 08:02 | <@Alek> | ah, code switches. |
| 08:02 | | * Alek facepalms at that code. |
| 08:02 | < [R]> | I've seen an IRC bot written in that code pattern. |
| 08:03 | < [R]> | It was irksome to hack. |
| 08:03 | < [R]> | Also this guy randomly swaps between Java naming patterns and terseness. |
| 08:04 | <@Alek> | Oracle. sheesh. they released a patch, with description "to be installed only if you have problems that are fixed by this patch". the section "problems fixed by this patch" says that it fixes problems that the Oracle devs found themselves, therefore they will not say what those problems were. |
| 08:04 | < [R]> | this.showItemsSubScreen(Game.Screen.inventoryScreen, this._player.getItems(), 'You are not carrying anything.'); // <-- next line |
| 08:05 | < [R]> | Nice. |
| 08:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Alek: Because a switch is the thing when you know, from day 1, that you want a lot of choices. But switches are less obvious when the statement grows incrementally. |
| 08:36 | <@Tarinaky> | If you only have two, or maybe even 3 choices, if-else seems quite reasonable. |
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| 08:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Every time you want to add a new condition, another else-if is the path of least resistance compared to tearing the whole thing down and rebuilding it. |
| 08:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Umm... That should have been aimed at [R], not Alek. |
| 08:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Because I am dumb. |
| 08:38 | <@Tarinaky> | [R]: What you actually, probably want, for keycodes is not to use a conditional at all and instead use a datastructure you can populate from a file. |
| 08:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Mapping keycodes to function pointers or something. |
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| 12:24 | <@Tarinaky> | Request for Suggestions: simplest 3D game possible using the least and simplest assets possible? First person perspective preferred. |
| 12:24 | <@Tarinaky> | My mind has gone somewhat blank. |
| 12:26 | < ErikMesoy> | First person maze exploration. |
| 12:26 | < ErikMesoy> | Possibly with very simple colored keys and doors. |
| 12:29 | <@Tarinaky> | Failure: requires assets. |
| 12:31 | < ErikMesoy> | If grey walls, brown floor aren't simple enough assets I don't know what you can do. |
| 12:31 | < ErikMesoy> | Maybe have 4 colored points floating in space and the ability to rotate perspective. |
| 12:32 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: nah, Tarinaky has already decided that your idea is wrong. won't be used. |
| 12:32 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: there is only one interpretation! |
| 12:32 | <@Tamber> | "simplest assets possible" "Failure: requires assets" Perhaps, then, you should have said "using absolutely no assets whatsoever"? |
| 12:33 | < ErikMesoy> | Interactive Sock Simulator. There is a sock, which you can fold, unfold, and view from various angles. |
| 12:33 | <@Tarinaky> | A maze requires a maze. |
| 12:33 | <@Tarinaky> | But fine. I'll go away -.- |
| 12:33 | <@froztbyte> | Tamber: nonsense, there can be only one way! |
| 12:33 | < ErikMesoy> | http://www.mazegenerator.net/ |
| 12:33 | <@froztbyte> | Tamber: do you want to /write/ one, or /play/ one, or /read the source for one/? |
| 12:34 | <@froztbyte> | err |
| 12:34 | <@froztbyte> | Tarinaky |
| 12:34 | <@froztbyte> | because each of those colour the answer differently too |
| 12:34 | <@Tamber> | Tarinaky: Well, if you're just going to ask for suggestions, then complain that any of them take work, I don't know why you're bothering to ask. |
| 12:34 | <@froztbyte> | and ErikMesoy's original suggestion is actually a pretty good one for all 3, afaict |
| 12:34 | <@Tarinaky> | Write/implement as a learning exercise in <tool>. |
| 12:35 | <@froztbyte> | for writing, you can generate basic mazes yourself; you can just make basic textures without having to drag assets around, etc |
| 12:36 | < ErikMesoy> | Here is a very simple maze: |
| 12:36 | < ErikMesoy> | _____ |
| 12:36 | < ErikMesoy> | |.|.| |
| 12:36 | < ErikMesoy> | |___| |
| 12:36 | <@froztbyte> | I'd get lost in that one |
| 12:36 | < ErikMesoy> | You start at the left dot, and attempt to find the right dot. |
| 12:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Idly, since you mention "absolutely no assets whatsoever" is that even possible? |
| 12:37 | <@froztbyte> | sure |
| 12:37 | <@froztbyte> | the demoscene people do tons of this kind of thing |
| 12:37 | <@froztbyte> | algorithmically generate * |
| 12:37 | <@froztbyte> | describe the nature of a thing in code, and then assemble it at runtime |
| 12:38 | <@Tarinaky> | That... actually just makes the problem worse. |
| 12:39 | | * Tarinaky wanders off for a shower. |
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| 13:48 | | * TheWatcher eyes Tarinaky |
| 14:06 | | * Tarinaky ears. |
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| 15:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tamber: a Maze War clone requires exactly one art asset, a sprite for the players - and in the version I played on UNIX back in the day it wasn't even a sprite, it was just a coloured circle. |
| 15:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | I'm not sure it's the simplest 3d game possible but it was one of the first. |
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| 15:49 | <@Tamber> | TF: And in the case of it being a coloured circle, you wouldn't even need that one sprite? |
| 15:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | No, because you can just can call gluDisc() or whatever your local equivalent is. |
| 15:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | The whole thing is rendered with lines, quads, and circles, you don't actually need textures or models or anything. |
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| 17:33 | | * thalass aughs, sleep. |
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| 21:09 | < AnnoDomini> | Grr. It's hard to troubleshoot why the RPi isn't getting on the network without a suitable monitor. |
| 21:15 | < simon_> | yeah. |
| 21:16 | | * simon_ got an RPi, installed it and hooked it up to a screen. my flatmate still taunts me for never using it. |
| 21:16 | <&McMartin> | Do RPis have "standard" cases? I only ever see DIY stuff where they just sit the damn thing on a cocktail napkin or something |
| 21:16 | < simon_> | McMartin, yes, some British teenager made a million doing them. |
| 21:17 | < Syka> | McMartin: depends on standard :D |
| 21:17 | < simon_> | maybe half a million. but he succeeded greatly. |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | simon: awesome |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | Syka: I don't know enough to know which meaning of standard I mean here! |
| 21:17 | < simon_> | McMartin, there's one with an official RPi logo on, and there's a knock-off or three. but they fit. |
| 21:17 | < Syka> | McMartin: the original rpi had no case |
| 21:18 | < Syka> | McMartin: so there were ones made |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | I mean one of: (a) a traditional box so that the good bits aren't exposed and (b) is there an actual published standard like ATX for desktops here |
| 21:18 | < Syka> | so theres no standard as in 'the one its always had' |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Sounds like (a) is "yes" at any rate |
| 21:18 | < Syka> | McMartin: there are published measurements of the ports |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Right right, but I mean, it's going to be "this is a case for an RPi" not "this is a case for devices meeting the Credit Card Computer Case standard" or whatnot |
| 21:19 | < Syka> | yeah |
| 21:19 | < Syka> | every cc-sized computer is different |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> | There should totally be a CCCC standard just for the name >_> |
| 21:19 | < simon_> | I think the standard is just an announcement. it isn't held with any authority on these kinds of things. |
| 21:19 | < simon_> | hehehe |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> | simon: I'll settle for "it's a standard once three manufacturers make different devices that are the same shape and they put a name on that shape" |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | But this is still New Tech, so I imagine we aren't really there yet |
| 21:20 | < simon_> | that reminds me of CCC in Berlin. (Chaos Communication Congress, Chaos Computer Club) |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | Campus Crusade for Cthulhu |
| 21:20 | < simon_> | heh |
| 21:21 | <&McMartin> | Anyway, now I know, so thanks |
| 21:22 | | * simon_ realizes how horrible Moscow ML is of a Standard ML compiler. it breaks from the SML Basis Library to provide much worse libraries... if only they were better! |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | I've honestly never found an SML compiler I liked. |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | It's one of the reasons all my ML work is in OCaml |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | Which I *also* don't like, so, um, that's why I haven't done a lot of ML work |
| 21:24 | < simon_> | if only there were a cross-platform optimizing ML compiler with a REPL and good error messages. |
| 21:24 | < simon_> | then again... I'm pretty sure if you put in the effort of writing such a compiler, you'd want to change things to make it seem more like Haskell. and hey, GHC exists. |
| 21:26 | <&McMartin> | I'd also want a better FFI |
| 21:26 | < simon_> | yes |
| 21:26 | < simon_> | !!! |
| 21:26 | < simon_> | and a better library for dynamic libraries |
| 21:26 | <&McMartin> | yo dawg i heard you like libraries |
| 21:26 | < simon_> | er |
| 21:26 | < simon_> | yeah |
| 21:28 | < simon_> | one former student at my department wrote an ML preprocessor for adding typeclasses, do-syntax, structure inheritance, a FailWithPosition exception, includes and a bunch of other stuff. |
| 21:30 | < simon_> | https://github.com/mortenbp/PreML/ |
| 21:30 | < simon_> | he also wrote a library alternative to the standard library. it turns out there's quite a lot of effort in writing actual applications in SML. |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | Yyyeah |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | I don't consider it adequately proven that structures and functors are sufficiently powerful for organizing large programs. |
| 21:31 | | * simon_ has thought about applying for a job as a functional programmer. I hear some of the financial corps have millions of lines of O'Caml. |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | Erlang is huge too |
| 21:32 | < simon_> | I'd code Erlang for money. |
| 21:32 | < simon_> | next week on "Advanced Programming" is Erlang week. I have to implement a reference solution to a distributed Fish School Simulator using quadtrees of processes :) |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | I need to learn Erlang and Scala |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | And I'd like to refamiliarize myself with Go |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | But none of these are high enough priority to actually do it~ |
| 21:36 | | * simon_ has been reviewing weekly exercises twice on the "Introduction to Programming" course now. |
| 21:37 | < simon_> | first week I said "These exercises are too hard. the group assignment will be passed by 50% and the individual assignment will be passed by 20%". seems now that I was optimistic. |
| 21:38 | < simon_> | next week I said "These exercises are harder than last week's." I didn't make any predictions about rate of failure, but let's just say that after three weeks of programming, they're asked to write mutually recursive functions on n-ary trees to determine the outcome of game-theoretic questions. |
| 21:39 | < simon_> | i.e. datatype Foo = P of int | Bars of Bar list and Bar = Q of int | Foos of Foo list; |
| 21:39 | < simon_> | the only thing I've used before that resembles this kind of data structure is a syntax tree. |
| 21:43 | <&McMartin> | Ooh, that's a minmax tree all right |
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| --- Log closed Sun Sep 22 00:00:38 2013 |