| --- Log opened Thu Sep 12 00:00:22 2013 |
| 00:08 | < [R]> | Isn't Valgrind the reason we had that sshd vulnerability a while back? |
| 00:09 | < [R]> | I blame Debian for that regardless though. |
| 00:15 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 01:17 | <@Namegduf> | [R]: Sort of in that it was someone removing undefined behaviour which was needed. |
| 01:17 | <@Namegduf> | [R]: Detected using valgrind. |
| 01:18 | <@Namegduf> | [R]: It's no slight on valgrind, though, valgrind's a powerful and effective tool for detecting anything wrong being done with memory access. |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | "Undefined behavior which was needed" is a flaw even if a naive fix makes it worse~ |
| 01:18 | < [R]> | Aye, but blindly trusting tools is bad. |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | This was a use-before-def, IIRC, right? |
| 01:19 | <&McMartin> | "There's a use-before-def in our ssh code" is pretty firmly in "feel free to ignite you hair" territory~ |
| 01:19 | < [R]> | Not getting your point there |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | I'm saying, if I remember this incident |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | The sshd "vulnerability" wasn't the tool giving a false positive on a thing that was intentionally part of the algorithm. |
| 01:23 | <@Namegduf> | Your original line attributed blame for the mistake to valgrind. This was incorrect because valgrind performed its function correctly, performed it well and with detailed responses, and the function in question was a useful one. |
| 01:24 | <@Namegduf> | You may as well say that whatever text editor they used was the "reason" for the mistake. |
| 01:24 | <@Namegduf> | It would be incorrect. The error was not in the tool but in the application. |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | Also, the specific bug valgrind found was of the form "int x; x = x + 3;" |
| 01:24 | <@Namegduf> | In the sense of, in the way the tool was applied. |
| 01:24 | <&McMartin> | I'm pretty comfortable saying that the code that was "fixed" in a way to introduce a vulnerability was actually at least as broken beforehand. |
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| 03:36 | <@Alek> | "The best code is the code you do not write." "*turns on soldering iron* Yes! We'll do it in hardware! Muahahahaa!" |
| 03:43 | <@Azash> | Pff |
| 03:43 | <@Azash> | Was it Kernighan who had that "my most productive day" quote? |
| 03:53 | < [R]> | Possibly, I mean she did backstab two races at genocide levels over the course of a night. |
| 03:54 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 03:58 | <@Azash> | What |
| 03:58 | <@Azash> | Thinking of Kerrigan? |
| 04:00 | <@Azash> | I meant Kernighan, of K&R fame, but the quote in question is Ken Thompson: "One of my most productive days was throwing away a thousand lines of code" |
| 04:00 | <&McMartin> | OK, Kerrigan and Ritchie needs to be a thing no |
| 04:00 | <&McMartin> | *now |
| 04:02 | <@Azash> | Haha |
| 04:02 | <&McMartin> | A la K&R&L |
| 04:02 | <&McMartin> | http://www.bobhobbs.com/files/kr_lovecraft.html if you haven't seen it |
| 04:02 | <&McMartin> | It is quality |
| 04:02 | <@Azash> | Brood Cronjob |
| 04:03 | <@Azash> | McMartin: Thanks, this looks great |
| 04:04 | <@Azash> | Will check it out after sleep but I think exc 4-13 justified reading it |
| 04:10 | <&McMartin> | I have not yet had the excuse to use the text of exc 4-13 as a commit message |
| 05:07 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:22 | <@Tarinaky> | 01:18 < [R]> Aye, but blindly trusting tools is bad. << The tool just printed a line number and some ascii/UTF-8 text. It took a human to make the patch, and another human to sign off on it and probably a third human to instruct the versioning software to merge it proper. |
| 05:22 | <~Vornicus> | Brood Cronjob? Is he related to Dirk Squatthrust? |
| 05:26 | < [R]> | Tarinaky: Way to miss the point. |
| 05:27 | <@Tarinaky> | Not really. If the error/fault was something that could have been expected to be spotted by a maintainer you'd think it'd be noticed by the different pairs of eyes on it. |
| 05:27 | <@Tarinaky> | I mean, that is the purpose of code review :p |
| 05:28 | <@Reiv> | Pft. Code review. |
| 05:29 | <@Tarinaky> | Even white-space patches get reviewed. |
| 05:30 | <@Reiv> | Here it's "Hey, [coworker]. Does this look sane to you?" "OK, what're you doing?" "Simple enough statement, but I needed to pull a rank here and a aggregation here." "How long, what sort of results?" "About ten seconds for a thousand rows. It runs daily." "Eh, it's fine." |
| 05:30 | <@Reiv> | Done.~ |
| 05:31 | <@Tarinaky> | Well , presumably if it wasn't fine they wouldn't say that :p |
| 05:31 | <@Tarinaky> | But yeah. it's not like someone is just sat in a cubicle with a copy of Valgrind trying to Open, Patch and Close as many bug-reports as possible in an hour for hours on end. |
| 05:32 | <@Tarinaky> | *as fast as possible |
| 05:32 | <@Tarinaky> | +And damn the build. |
| 05:33 | <@Tarinaky> | Because everyone knows you track productivity with Issues closed, openned and patches comitted :) |
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| 08:50 | | * Vornicus fiddles with MVC vs PAC |
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| --- Log closed Thu Sep 12 11:14:43 2013 |
| --- Log opened Thu Sep 12 12:13:48 2013 |
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| 12:26 | | * Vornicus pokes at his program, tries to think of anything the model needs but shouldn't save. THought there was something but now he's forgotten what it was. |
| 12:28 | < Reiver> | what model? |
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| 12:30 | <~Vornicus> | I'm doing MVC -- well, technically PAC -- reorganization of my code for vorntiers. |
| 12:32 | <~Vornicus> | For the moment, I'm looking at the planet class and trying to figure out whether there's data in there that 1. isn't really part of the view/presentation and 2. isn't supposed to get saved with the rest of the game. |
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| 12:48 | <~Vornicus> | I thought there was -- or was going to be -- one, but I can't think of it now. |
| 12:51 | <~Vornicus> | So I guess I don't have to worry so much |
| 13:37 | <~Vornicus> | Hey McM, I have a wonder: how does the commodore 64 implement ATN? |
| 13:38 | <~Vornicus> | (or rather, atan, but being a built-in BASIC function, it's limited to 3 letters and thus it's ATN) |
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| 15:27 | <@Azash> | "Convinced my boss to let me do the project in Haskell" http://i.imgur.com/ssCoOPR.jpg |
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| 18:37 | < [R]> | "It has become apparent that many of the Application Development staff are regularly accessing docs.oracle.com during work hours, consuming large amounts of internet bandwidth. |
| 18:37 | < [R]> | Since this is negatively impacting externally facing business processes, this site has been blocked, effective immediately." |
| 18:37 | < [R]> | How... |
| 18:38 | < [R]> | Did this guy take actual courses on how to be ignorant? |
| 18:38 | < Syka> | ...rofl |
| 18:39 | <@Azash> | Pfahah |
| 18:39 | <@Tamber> | Mordac? |
| 18:39 | < Syka> | I AM MORDAC, THE PREVENTOR OF INFORMATION SERVICES |
| 18:40 | | * Syka beats Tamber with a SCO manual |
| 18:41 | < ErikMesoy> | Regularly access google.com and see if he blocks that. |
| 18:42 | < Syka> | access 127.0.0.1 a lot |
| 18:43 | | * Tamber beats Syka with a fork-lift truck fork. |
| 18:53 | < ErikMesoy> | You might be interested in a variation on this: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5444745065_77d39260f0_o.jpg "...some spoof account is signing your name to stupid emails." |
| 18:55 | <@Alek> | oh jeez, R, that's bad. |
| 18:56 | <@Alek> | yes, set up a script to irregularly, but constantly, load 127.0.0.1 in the browser. >_> |
| 18:56 | <@Alek> | also, the ip for the company website. |
| 18:56 | <@Alek> | see if he manages to block that. XD |
| 19:01 | | Xires is now known as ^Xires |
| 19:03 | <@gnolam> | [R]: please tell me that isn't where you work? |
| 19:09 | < [R]> | I wish I had a job remotely related to IT |
| 19:15 | | ^Xires is now known as Xires |
| 19:53 | <@iospace> | man, I love it when idiots don't know how software development works |
| 19:53 | < Syka> | on the topic of mordac |
| 19:54 | < Syka> | i mentioned garfield minus garfield to a friend, and wondered how it would work with dilbert |
| 19:54 | < Syka> | i got this back https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/48020451/dilbertminusdilbert.png |
| 19:54 | <@Azash> | Haha |
| 19:54 | <@Azash> | The second one seems like half of IT admins |
| 19:55 | <@Azash> | Powerless against the users, in a slow descent into madness |
| 19:55 | <@Tamber> | hee |
| 20:15 | <@Tarinaky> | [R]: Do please tell us how this story progresses. I'm sure we all want to know 1) How long the ban lasts. 2) Any intermediate steps taken to allow work to continue 3) And beligerent actions resulting from this. |
| 20:16 | <@Tarinaky> | 4) The location of the nearest popcorn vendor. |
| 20:17 | <@Tarinaky> | Alek: I don't think accessing 127.0.0.1 actually sends any traffic onto the network... |
| 20:28 | <@Azash> | [R]: So how about them VPNs |
| 20:29 | <@Tarinaky> | Azash: Bypassing information security/accessing blocked sites is usually a fireable offence in most places and may even be illegal depending on how good the stuff your judges smoke is. |
| 20:30 | <@Azash> | Also that's true, but just use the LAN IPs |
| 20:31 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 20:35 | <@Tarinaky> | Azash: Still might not pass through the monitor/proxy/whatever. |
| 20:36 | <@Tarinaky> | And the amount of traffic you'd have to put on a local network to get noticed is... downright malicious. |
| 20:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Certainly well outside reasonable use cases. |
| 20:40 | < xybre> | Is there a better term than "Ouroboros linked list" for a linked list whose head links to both the first and last element (but is not a fully-doubly linked list) |
| 20:43 | < xybre> | Ignore the "linked list" part, I'm an idiot, because a single linked list with a pointer to the tail is not terribly useful. |
| 20:44 | <@Namegduf> | I think you need to replace the linked list part, rather than just having it ignored. |
| 20:44 | <@Namegduf> | What *is* it, then? |
| 21:18 | <@Azash> | xybre: I would say it is quite useful |
| 21:18 | <@Azash> | Insertion goes from linear to constant |
| 21:19 | <@Tarinaky> | 'Ouroboros' makes me think of a cyclic linked list :/ |
| 21:24 | < xybre> | Azash: Doh, of course, I was thinking about deletions only, good point |
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| 21:31 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 21:33 | < Attilla> | huh there are 1TB SSDs, wacky |
| 21:33 | < Attilla> | they cost a lot, obviously |
| 21:38 | < RichyB> | The ones that you can just hang straight off a 16x PCI-E slot in order to avoid the SATA/SCSI controller bottleneck are epic |
| 21:40 | < Attilla> | i'd sit here daydreaming about having a triple GTX Titan setup with lots of other bells and whistles but i don't even know what would get any better with that |
| 21:41 | < Attilla> | unless i wanted to turn my computer to the better good (or mining bitcoins i guess) and use the GPU for processing whatever |
| 21:41 | < RichyB> | More faster pixels? I find most video games get appreciably more difficult as the framerate dips. |
| 21:42 | < RichyB> | 60fps makes a lot of videogames easier to play. |
| 21:43 | <@Tarinaky> | RichyB: How much do those cost btw? |
| 21:43 | <@Alek> | and then you get games that get easier when they lag. XD |
| 21:43 | < RichyB> | £money |
| 21:43 | <@Alek> | like bullet hells. |
| 21:43 | <@Alek> | and others. |
| 21:44 | < Attilla> | Yeah but no games I play get that slow. The only annoying slowdown I had recently was on Dark Souls when I made a mad dash through several areas and it needed to load up the other areas since there are no loading screens (outside of like I guess the cutscenes that differentiate Anor Londo/Sen's Fortress and Firelink Shrine/Undead Asylum), and that slowdown |
| 21:44 | < Attilla> | would probably have only been bettered by faster disk transfer rates |
| 21:45 | <@Alek> | ram also, possibly. |
| 21:45 | < RichyB> | Tarinaky, fuckloads, sufficiently costly that they don't even write the price on the website. I think that the smallest ones can be had for around £5k. The biggest ones will set you back $125k according to http://www.solidstateworks.com/ioDrive-Octal.asp |
| 21:45 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh. Damn. |
| 21:46 | <@Alek> | a ten-tera SSD. |
| 21:46 | <@Alek> | ooh my. |
| 21:47 | < ErikMesoy> | One of those things where you can wait for the price to drop faster than you can earn the money? |
| 21:47 | <@Alek> | AND you gotta buy a subscripion and pay for support, but at that point it's probably chump change. |
| 21:47 | <@Alek> | basically. |
| 21:47 | <@Tarinaky> | More HD space than I have in HD storage :/ |
| 21:47 | <@Tarinaky> | Err remove one of those HD |
| 21:47 | < RichyB> | about 1.25M IOPS read or write at 512bytes, 45µs access latency. About 6GB/s reads and 3GB/s writes. |
| 21:48 | <@Alek> | what would these be for? |
| 21:48 | < Attilla> | it looks like it's designed for servers |
| 21:48 | < RichyB> | Database server. You put one of these in a machine with a very reliable power supply and run Oracle on top of it. |
| 21:48 | <@Tarinaky> | Any clue if anyone does anything like that but with much smaller capacity? |
| 21:48 | <@Alek> | what, google farm? |
| 21:48 | < RichyB> | No, Google take the opposite tack, using large numbers of cheap machines. |
| 21:48 | < Attilla> | you don't have any SATA room, Tarinaky? |
| 21:49 | < RichyB> | Tarinaky, yes, same company. |
| 21:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Attilla: These are meant to be faster than SATA I think... |
| 21:49 | <@Alek> | true, true, speed isn't QUITE as important for google. |
| 21:50 | < RichyB> | Thing is, I think you could buy and run a fusion i/o drive for a lot less money than it'd take to keep an array of lesser disks and SSDs with the same performance spinning. |
| 21:50 | <@Alek> | the ioDrive starts at 7.5k for 320GB |
| 21:50 | < RichyB> | Don't think of it as "$125k down the drain", think of it as "$125k invested in reducing my electricity bill". ;) |
| 21:51 | <@Alek> | ioFX is on sale, 1.2k for 420GB |
| 21:51 | <@Alek> | but it seems to be flash ram. |
| 21:51 | <@Alek> | on the PCI bus. |
| 21:51 | <@Tarinaky> | I wonder how cheaply you could build an 8G one of those. Something you could stick a page file on... |
| 21:51 | <@Alek> | or sumpin |
| 21:52 | <@Alek> | 8GB? hah. |
| 21:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: if it's only 8GB, why bother? Put another 8GB of RAM in. |
| 21:52 | <@Alek> | ioScale goes at 3k+ for 410GB, but you gotta order them in bulk, at least 10 of. |
| 21:52 | <@Tarinaky> | /Point/. |
| 21:53 | < RichyB> | Tarinaky, I heard of someone building and selling one of those but I can't remember the name or else I'd point it out. They were talking about prices around a few hundred points. On the close order of $500. |
| 21:53 | <@Tarinaky> | But I know people like John Carmack are looking towards using SSD-based Page Files as an extra layer of cache. |
| 21:53 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, yes, no. The point is that it's not an 8GB DIMM, it's an 8GB DIMM + a big capacitor + 8GB of flash. |
| 21:54 | <@Alek> | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=81920 98&CatId=5300 |
| 21:54 | <@Alek> | here, have an 8GB SSD |
| 21:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | RichyB: but the point of a pagefile is as a fallback when you run out of actual RAM. |
| 21:54 | <@Alek> | for $20 |
| 21:54 | | * Alek would love that, but has no SATA room. :( |
| 21:54 | < RichyB> | You put the filesystem journal on it so that your writes can be declared safe as soon as they hit the DRAM. Then, if you lose power, the board is set to use the energy stored in the capacitor to keep itself going for long enough to save the DIMM's contents to flash. |
| 21:55 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, ooh, reading comprehension fail. |
| 21:55 | < RichyB> | Yes, it's useless as a page file. The idea is extremely useful as a journal target. |
| 21:55 | < RichyB> | s/ooh/oops/ |
| 21:55 | <@Tarinaky> | On that note. I really need to get more RAM for this box >.< |
| 21:56 | < RichyB> | I can confidently say that yes you do and I don't know or care how much RAM you have. |
| 21:56 | < RichyB> | The correct quantity is MORE. :D |
| 21:56 | <@Alek> | 32GB for $40 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=77394 85&CatId=5298 |
| 21:56 | | * Alek has 8GB ram, it's the most his mobo can handle. it's also DDR2. :( |
| 21:57 | <@Tarinaky> | What if you have a theoretical Turing Machine with infinite tape? Whan then hunh? |
| 21:57 | <@Tarinaky> | Still think you need more RAM :p |
| 21:57 | < RichyB> | Tarinaky, yes. |
| 21:57 | < RichyB> | If you have a Turing Machine then you have no RAM. |
| 21:58 | <@Tarinaky> | And it doesn't use RAM... |
| 21:58 | < RichyB> | A Turing Machine takes O(n) time to access a cell that's n units away from the current position of the head. Its access to the tape is not random. |
| 21:58 | <@Tarinaky> | So more RAM doesn't help... |
| 22:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay, how do I prevent a div from inheriting first-line indent with css... |
| 22:25 | <@Alek> | so uh. |
| 22:25 | <@Alek> | whaddya all think of Phonebloks? |
| 22:26 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't even remember how to do first-line indent in the first place. <_< |
| 22:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | Alek: no idea what that even is |
| 22:46 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 22:57 | <@Tarinaky> | Ominously, I've found a perfectly Earth-like world nestled amongst an Asteroid dense star system. |
| 22:57 | <@Tarinaky> | The ominous part, is that the system is filled with wrecked 4k ton ships. |
| 22:57 | <@Tarinaky> | Genre-savy or no, it's too good an opportunity to pass up. |
| 22:58 | <@Tarinaky> | It's a keen opportunity for my Scout Cruiser to prove itself capable... |
| 22:58 | <@Tarinaky> | Assuming it has enough fuel to get there >.> |
| 22:58 | < AnnoDomini> | Did you mean to post in #DnD? |
| 22:59 | <@Tarinaky> | Oh. Yes. |
| 22:59 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm an idiot. |
| 22:59 | < AnnoDomini> | No worries. Your audience (myself) is here as well. :V |
| 23:02 | <@Alek> | Phonebloks: http://imgur.com/gallery/pfVCe |
| 23:02 | < Syka> | that thing |
| 23:02 | < Syka> | i've seen the same thing before |
| 23:02 | <@Tamber> | ...yeah, that's real familiar |
| 23:03 | < Syka> | Tamber: project modai |
| 23:03 | < Syka> | short of it: it's dumb |
| 23:03 | < Syka> | long of it: it's really fucking dumb |
| 23:03 | < Syka> | bluetooth and wifi are a single chip |
| 23:04 | <@Alek> | they are? |
| 23:04 | < Syka> | Alek: on most things i've seen these days, yes |
| 23:07 | < Syka> | the reason why this is the dumbest idea ever |
| 23:07 | < Syka> | http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+5+Teardown/10525/2 |
| 23:07 | < Syka> | scroll to the bottom of the page |
| 23:08 | < Syka> | the actual SoC + chips are TINY |
| 23:08 | < Syka> | like |
| 23:08 | < Syka> | the size of your finger |
| 23:08 | < Syka> | the rest is battery |
| 23:09 | < Syka> | AND, splitting them up, you INSTANTLY lose every benefit to a SoC |
| 23:10 | < Syka> | that is, your speed goes to shit, because everything is now far away, rather than literally next to each other |
| 23:10 | < Syka> | phoneblok communicates through pins |
| 23:10 | | * Alek nods. |
| 23:10 | < Syka> | there you go, now you have to have signal encoding/decoding in every layer |
| 23:10 | <&McMartin> | TIL: adding sleeps or blocks don't help when you're racing with *yourself* |
| 23:10 | <&McMartin> | -_- |
| 23:10 | <@Alek> | yeah, I can see it. |
| 23:11 | < Syka> | so yeah |
| 23:12 | < Syka> | essentially: trash made by someone with zero idea how wires work |
| 23:12 | < Syka> | or computers |
| 23:12 | < Syka> | or embedded systems |
| 23:12 | < Syka> | ffs, it's got a block marked "speed" |
| 23:12 | <@Tamber> | ... |
| 23:13 | < Syka> | at least its better than project modai |
| 23:13 | <@Tamber> | ...shit, so it has. What the hell? |
| 23:13 | < Syka> | which had the RAM and CPU seperated like that |
| 23:13 | <@Tamber> | Also, "designed to last"? Last right up until the first time you drop it, then it'll come apart everywhere, right? |
| 23:13 | < Syka> | so youd better hope you have some serious fuckin cache |
| 23:13 | <@Reiv> | Hey now. It's not a bad idea. |
| 23:14 | < Syka> | oh and, why is the antenna a block, and not embedded |
| 23:14 | <@Reiv> | But it's an idea that was rendered obsolete about the point where the biggest source of lag in a machine was the *speed of light*. |
| 23:14 | <@Reiv> | This was, y'know. Quite a few years ago. And back then we didn't have the tech to do a phone like that anyhow. |
| 23:15 | < Syka> | wut |
| 23:15 | < Syka> | no, the biggest source of lag isn't the speed of light, but the conductiveness of copper |
| 23:16 | <@Reiv> | Hm. |
| 23:16 | <@Reiv> | Note to self: Sarcasm circuits insufficient this morning. |
| 23:16 | | * Reiv will leave it to y'all. |
| 23:19 | <@Tamber> | *plugs in some more speed* |
| 23:20 | | * Syka plugs in ten antennas |
| 23:20 | < Syka> | SUPER RECEPTION |
| 23:20 | < Syka> | Tamber: you know, the size of the 'speed' block |
| 23:20 | < Syka> | either this person has no idea how large a modern SoC is |
| 23:21 | < Syka> | or theyre implying that there's just a 1156 socket in there |
| 23:24 | < [R]> | Tarinaky: Azash: FYI that was a quote from today's TDWTF: http://thedailywtf.com/ |
| 23:25 | <@Azash> | Ah |
| 23:25 | <@Reiv> | Syka: They're also missing the whole point about, y'know, board architecture. |
| 23:25 | <@Reiv> | But eh. |
| 23:26 | < Syka> | Reiv: theyre probably in some fancy liberal arts school, so I don't expect them to :P |
| 23:30 | <@iospace> | Syka: http://imgur.com/gallery/pfVCe |
| 23:30 | <@iospace> | oh gee, doesn't this look familiar! |
| 23:31 | < Syka> | iospace: Tamber literally already said that, if you're referring to my rwdsndaes ;D |
| 23:31 | < Syka> | iospace: X3 |
| 23:31 | <@iospace> | :V |
| 23:32 | < Syka> | https://i.cloudup.com/YTMd2VkRWl-2000x2000.jpeg |
| 23:32 | < Syka> | aaaaaaa |
| 23:32 | <@iospace> | it's fox |
| 23:33 | < Attilla> | phonebloks look like space phones from the future |
| 23:34 | < Attilla> | with phonebloks could i build a huge 80s-sized mobile with everything in it :V |
| 23:34 | < Attilla> | maybe a huge screen to make up for it |
| 23:45 | <@Tarinaky> | http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/13/em2/Pic-3.png |
| --- Log closed Fri Sep 13 00:00:48 2013 |