| --- Log opened Mon Aug 26 00:00:50 2013 |
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| 02:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Once I find myself writing (let (binding (let I start thinking there has to be a better way to do this. |
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| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | TF: IIRC Clojure let is like let*; shouldn't you be able to make (let [a (let [b (f c)] (g b)] ...) be (let [b (f c) a (g b)] ...)? |
| 03:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Er |
| 03:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's (let [[x y z] (get-xyz)] (binding [*the-x* x] (let [foo (fn-that-uses-x) bar (other-fn-that-uses-x)] ...actual code...))) |
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| 03:45 | <&McMartin> | Oh! binding is the dynamic-variable thing, right |
| 03:45 | <&McMartin> | It's been awhile >_> |
| 03:45 | <&McMartin> | And I don't use dynamic scope much |
| 03:47 | <&McMartin> | And presumably foo and bar use not only x but *the-x*. |
| 03:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, that's what I meant by "uses-x" |
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| 03:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | <3 dynamic binding |
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| 04:05 | | * McMartin updates Light Table, realizes he has nothing to fiddle with with it |
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| 04:18 | <&McMartin> | Hrm. |
| 04:18 | <&McMartin> | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/how-might-the-feds-have-snooped-on-la vabit/ |
| 04:19 | <&McMartin> | This article implies that Lavabit users sent their passwords protected only by SSL to the Lavabit servers |
| 04:19 | <&McMartin> | Correct me if I'm wrong, but this means that if someone compromised Lavabit's certificate, it's game over, right? |
| 04:20 | | * McMartin is strictly amateur when it comes to network security |
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| 04:33 | <@Azash> | McMartin: Store passwords in MongoDB |
| 04:33 | <@Azash> | That way they can never be successfully stolen |
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| 04:35 | <&McMartin> | Azash: Or accessed?~ |
| 04:35 | <@Reiv> | Azash: That's a big claim. |
| 04:35 | <&McMartin> | I believe the joke here is that data that goes into MongoDB never comes out |
| 04:35 | <@Azash> | Reiv: I'm beating the dead horse on Mongo's reputed integrity issues |
| 04:36 | <@Azash> | And, as far as I know, which is not that much either, the certificate is only using crypto to show evidence that you are who you claim to be |
| 04:36 | <&McMartin> | Ah, hrm. I thought it was somehow built into the SSL encryption too, but maybe it's just that by being able to fake being them you can trivially perform a man-in-the-middle attack |
| 04:37 | <&McMartin> | And if you MITM it and they send you their password in a form you can decrypt, well, gg |
| 04:37 | <@Azash> | Oh, hm |
| 04:38 | <@Azash> | You might be right actually |
| 04:39 | <@Azash> | I'm looking over TLS and the client can send a string, encrypted with the cert pubkey, that is used for computing the shared secret |
| 04:40 | <&McMartin> | Mmm. Yeah, I guess the quesiton is "is that enough to let you tap it or do you need to do a full-scale MITM at that point" |
| 04:40 | <&McMartin> | When you have the level of resources we're talking about here, I suppose it doesn't really matter |
| 04:40 | <&McMartin> | Since you can do things like suborn backbone-level routers. =P |
| 04:41 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, I was imagining something noticably more paranoid than this; some kind of thing where all encryption and decryption happens on the endpoints and the way you tell a message isn't for you is that your key doesn't work. |
| 04:42 | | * Azash summons wizard friend in case he has a good explanation as usual |
| 04:43 | <@Azash> | But well, if there is a different cert, or you know the privkey for the cert, what that means is you can figure out what the string sent by the client is and thus figure out the shared secret |
| 04:43 | <@Azash> | Which would let you read the TLS communication |
| 04:44 | <&McMartin> | Ah, OK. So it would allow a tap, even after the fact, if you're captured the whole exchange |
| 04:44 | <&McMartin> | Which is a power we Know They Have |
| 04:44 | <@Azash> | Yeah |
| 04:44 | | * McMartin nods |
| 04:44 | <&McMartin> | Food for thought |
| 04:45 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, password cracking is very nearly a solved, if moderately inconvinient, problem these days |
| 04:45 | <@Azash> | I know aforementioned friend often raves about ephemeral keys, I think the term is, where knowing one key does not let you capture the entire communication, but I don't think that applies here |
| 04:45 | | * Azash is out on deep waters |
| 04:45 | <@Reiv> | And the people involved can probably afford more than half a dozen graphics cards >_> |
| 04:48 | <&McMartin> | Azash: Is that like how encrypted digital TV works? |
| 04:48 | <&McMartin> | Where the keys shift algorithmically according to chips in the endpoints? |
| 04:49 | <@Azash> | McMartin: I have to admit, I've heard lots of talk on the effects but I haven't looked up how it works |
| 04:49 | <@Azash> | And that means |
| 04:49 | | * Azash wiki's it up |
| 04:49 | <&McMartin> | Hey, a good idea~ |
| 04:50 | <@Azash> | "A cryptographic key is called ephemeral if it is generated for each execution of a key establishment process." |
| 04:50 | <@Azash> | That was surprisingly simple |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 04:50 | <@Azash> | Um, I guess TLS is ephemeral then? Unless shared secrets are stored for a longer time |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, dunno. My reading is the same as yours |
| 04:50 | <&McMartin> | I guess the extreme for ephemeral keys is a one-time pad~ |
| 04:52 | <@Azash> | You could split hairs for that |
| 04:52 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 04:52 | <@Azash> | As you have one key where you use segments |
| 04:52 | <@Azash> | So if I want to really go full moron |
| 04:53 | <@Azash> | And, thinking about it, that is my typical modus operandi |
| 04:53 | <@Azash> | I will call OTP a stream cipher |
| 04:53 | <@Reiv> | Is it still a key if it is in fact a portable door? |
| 04:54 | <&McMartin> | I was raised by a mathematician, so yes! |
| 04:54 | <&McMartin> | >_> |
| 04:55 | <@Azash> | Also, the wizard was tired and went to bed, so mission failed there |
| 04:57 | <@Alek> | wat |
| 05:01 | <~Vornicus> | FISSION MAILED |
| 05:03 | <@Alek> | ooh, thoughtbunny. |
| 05:04 | <@Alek> | future fantasy setting, 40k or Numenera or something. |
| 05:04 | <@Alek> | Fission Maille. |
| 05:04 | | * Alek pokes Reiver. |
| 05:04 | <@Reiv> | Fission maille what |
| 05:04 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 05:04 | <@Reiv> | You hit it with a sword and there is a nuclear explosion? |
| 05:05 | <@Alek> | hah no. I don't think so. |
| 05:05 | <@Alek> | mebbe it generates a forcefield for extra protection. |
| 05:05 | <@Alek> | maybe it provides power for a cyborg wearing it. |
| 05:05 | <@Alek> | the possibilities. man. |
| 05:07 | | * Vornicus gets an old game concept he had stuck in his head again. |
| 05:07 | <~Vornicus> | But, I need to actually get the one I'm working on out of my head and complete first. |
| 05:07 | <~Vornicus> | Because this one I know I can do! |
| 05:08 | <@Alek> | ooh, what concept was that? |
| 05:08 | <@Alek> | and what are you working on now? |
| 05:09 | <~Vornicus> | The old concept is an exploration game, perhaps platformy, where basically every tile is a switchable block of one color or another. |
| 05:09 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:09 | <~Vornicus> | so access to various areas requires that certain block colors are on (so you can stand on them) and certain others are off (so they don't block your path) |
| 05:11 | <@Alek> | hrm. |
| 05:11 | <@Reiv> | Yes, that's doable. The trick is in the level design. |
| 05:11 | <@Alek> | there's a similar game recently out on steam. an indie platformer. |
| 05:13 | <@Alek> | at least I think it was on steam. |
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| 05:13 | <@Alek> | something with color in the name. |
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| 05:16 | <@Alek> | well, I can't find it now, but it was a very simple platformer. |
| 05:17 | <&McMartin> | You don't mean Fez do you |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | fez doesn;'t have that mechanic I don't think |
| 05:19 | <@Alek> | nooooo that wasn't it at all. |
| 05:19 | <@Alek> | I meant simple as in stick figure, stick ledges and walls, trap dots, and that was about it. |
| 05:20 | <@Alek> | start grey, the apparent default. add blue, add green, I dunno what came next. |
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| 05:28 | <@Alek> | omg |
| 05:28 | <@Alek> | nostalgia alert |
| 05:28 | <@Alek> | anyone else remember Die By The Sword? |
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| 07:55 | | * Vornicus gets sprite selection by quads working in love2d. Not hard at all. The distractotron however was a bit difficult to defeat. |
| 08:03 | <~Vornicus> | okay. Next. Figure out how to set up the game so the saveable state is kept all in one object, and the non-saveable and view etc state is kept separate. Suspect it goes something like, game objects have a .model attribute that refs the saveable state tables. |
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| 10:26 | | * Vornicus randomly thinks about interface, and whether certain summary information can be shown in a clear but non-textual way. |
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| 11:43 | <~Vornicus> | Things that need it, that I can think of... star gates, industry level, radar distance. |
| 11:46 | <~Vornicus> | YAY rendering works! |
| 12:00 | < Reiver> | Fuel range. |
| 12:00 | <~Vornicus> | Nonexistant in this game. |
| 12:00 | <~Vornicus> | If you can see it, you can send a ship to it. |
| 12:01 | < Reiver> | See as in radar? |
| 12:01 | <~Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 12:05 | < Reiver> | Right, just checking. |
| 12:05 | < Reiver> | (That reminds me of a race I very nearly proposed for SotS1.) |
| 12:06 | < Reiver> | I called their drive the 'halfway Hiver' - they moved very quick from planet to planet, but their range was seriously limited. The trick was they had range+speed boosts between their own planets. |
| 12:07 | < Reiver> | Tankers were Aetherial Collectors, and simply enhanced the range; if you could get one to a uninhabited planet you could deploy it to give you some of the range improvement of a colonised planet. |
| 12:08 | < Reiver> | Their ships would have also boasted rotational symmetry. Because space. >_> |
| 12:09 | <~Vornicus> | heh |
| 12:09 | < Reiver> | (Destroyers 2-way, Cruisers 3-way, Dreadnaughts 4-way.) |
| 12:09 | < Reiver> | Long hull, then flared command, the engine. |
| 12:09 | < Syka> | spess |
| 12:09 | < Syka> | the dominion of mahrens |
| 12:09 | < Reiver> | Of course, this meant anything with a spinal mount was goinng to be terrifyingly useful, while their all-rounder stuff was 'lots of guns, but not a lot /big/... except for the one on the front.' |
| 12:11 | < Reiver> | ... oh, yeah. And Because Rotational Symmetry, their guns would pretty much all be capable of full 90 degree elevation, and considerable depression, so the guns on the sides could shoot outward, and the guns on top shoot slightly downward and actually hit things on a 2D combat plane. >_> |
| 12:11 | < Reiver> | This would have more or less worked out pretty funky, I suspect. |
| 12:12 | < Reiver> | But then I realised I'd utterly forgotten how to friggin' model. |
| 12:12 | < Reiver> | Or rather, I know what I want, and I know how you'd do it |
| 12:12 | < Reiver> | But blowed if I can find a software where I can Find The Buttons. |
| 12:13 | <~Vornicus> | I had relatively good luck with Blender. |
| 12:13 | <~Vornicus> | the, uh. fourth time. |
| 12:13 | < Reiver> | Google Sketchup was nearly perfect |
| 12:13 | <~Vornicus> | Though a lot of that was I knew what I wanted the fourth time. |
| 12:13 | < Reiver> | But I couldn't get it to set a 2D plan view ;_; |
| 12:14 | < Reiver> | 'cuz I had 2D sketches, see. It would have been nice to use them as a primer for shape. |
| 12:40 | <~Vornicus> | z |
| 12:53 | < AnnoDomini> | Syka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wotocen56Vw&feature=youtu.be |
| 12:53 | < simon_> | hmm |
| 12:53 | < simon_> | I'm thinking about implementing arbitrary-depth pattern matching |
| 12:53 | < simon_> | for a functional language I'm toying with |
| 12:54 | < Syka> | wat |
| 12:54 | < AnnoDomini> | You have helped me make this! |
| 12:54 | < simon_> | i.e. support for "case x of Nil -> foo | Cons (x, Nil) -> bar | Cons (Nil, x) -> baz" |
| 12:54 | < Syka> | heh |
| 12:54 | | * Syka derps on more code |
| 13:09 | | Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Typherix, @Pandemic, Chutzpah, Xires, @Derakon[AFK], @iospace, AnnoDomini, simon_, ktemkin[awol], @Orthia, (+13 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) |
| 13:10 | | Netsplit over, joins: Chutzpah, @Reiv, @Orthia, &jerith, @Pandemic, @Tamber, @froztbyte, @himi, @iospace, @gnolam (+13 more) |
| 13:26 | <@Azash> | Let's do the derp |
| 13:28 | <@Tamber> | herple |
| 13:34 | < Syka> | derple |
| 13:34 | | * Syka finally gets around to doing ssh keys |
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| 13:45 | <@Tamber> | perpl? |
| 14:18 | | * gnolam sends the REPL Man after Tamber. |
| 14:20 | <@Azash> | gnolam: Considering it's an anagram of "herple", don't you mean He-REPL? |
| 14:25 | <@Tamber> | hee |
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| 15:10 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: ....how the fuck do you live without ssh keys? |
| 15:10 | <@froztbyte> | that's *the very first thing* I ever do |
| 15:11 | <@froztbyte> | new machine? keys. then puppet. |
| 15:11 | < Syka> | froztbyte: by being lazy |
| 15:11 | <@froztbyte> | no |
| 15:11 | <@froztbyte> | lazy is keys |
| 15:11 | <@froztbyte> | not keys is something else. batshit insane, perhaps. |
| 15:11 | <@Azash> | I just allow root login and disable password verification for ease of access |
| 15:11 | <@Azash> | I'm joking please don't kill me |
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| 15:11 | <@froztbyte> | yup |
| 15:12 | <@froztbyte> | same here |
| 15:12 | <@froztbyte> | all my remote hosts have that setup, and users don't have passwords either |
| 15:12 | < ErikMesoy> | http://i.imgur.com/jacoj.jpg a lot of my previous work has been like this (substitute "stacktrace" with your preferred demand for detail) |
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| 17:17 | <@Alek> | anno: supaspeed? srsly? |
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| 17:57 | < AnnoDomini> | Alek: Problem, comrade? |
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| 18:13 | <@Alek> | nah, I didn't bother watching. >_> |
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| 19:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | Syka: no keys? madness |
| 19:22 | < AnnoDomini> | Alek: Y U NO WATCH? |
| 19:24 | <@Alek> | lazy. also, busy. |
| 19:24 | < AnnoDomini> | Those seem incompatible. |
| 19:58 | <@Alek> | trust me, they're not. |
| 20:09 | <@Namegduf> | It's when you've stuff to do, and due to being lazy you're already under enough time pressure in getting it finished you can't afford more commitments. |
| 20:09 | <@Namegduf> | Or as I call them, "weekday evenings". |
| 20:09 | <@Tamber> | hehehe |
| 20:15 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: fwiw, I was serious |
| 20:15 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: keys >>>> passwords |
| 20:15 | <@froztbyte> | and I actually allow root login with keys |
| 20:15 | <@froztbyte> | it's not like you can easily brute the private |
| 20:15 | <@Azash> | Yeah I know |
| 20:15 | <@froztbyte> | and if you can manage to hijack the auth protocol or whatever, I have bigger problems |
| 20:16 | <@Azash> | I would use keys had I the least bit faith in not deterministically losing them |
| 20:16 | <@froztbyte> | apply reasonable passphrase, replicate well |
| 20:16 | <@froztbyte> | I also have this: http://elegua.za.net/~froztbyte/kingdom/ |
| 20:17 | <@froztbyte> | updated each time any of my keys change |
| 20:18 | | * Syka puts froztbyte's public key into her microserver for shits and giggles |
| 20:18 | <@froztbyte> | I don't imagine that'll work |
| 20:18 | <@froztbyte> | since I don't think you portforward |
| 20:18 | <@froztbyte> | other than that, I might've been able to log in ;p |
| 20:19 | < Syka> | that's exactly the point :D |
| 20:19 | < Syka> | you have access to a box you can never touch |
| 20:19 | < Syka> | muahahaha |
| 20:19 | <@froztbyte> | tsk tsk |
| 20:19 | <@froztbyte> | never say never |
| 20:19 | <@Tamber> | Right up until that day you forget about it and forward the port for some reason. |
| 20:19 | < Syka> | imagine all of the delicious datas you could get! |
| 20:19 | < Syka> | like uh |
| 20:19 | < Syka> | I dunno, my movies |
| 20:19 | <@froztbyte> | or any other method I could dream up (and already have) ;) |
| 20:20 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: just...like, word of warning |
| 20:20 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: don't tempt me with things |
| 20:20 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: the longest troll I've ever pulled off was well over 14 months |
| 20:20 | < Syka> | oh shit froztbyte is gonna hack my shit via emacs butterfly |
| 20:20 | < Syka> | :< |
| 20:20 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 20:22 | <@iospace> | Syka: https://github.com/joho/7XX-rfc 702 |
| 20:23 | < Syka> | "724 - This line should be unreachable" |
| 20:23 | < Syka> | hahaha |
| 20:23 | < Syka> | "73X - Fucking" this is my favourite error block |
| 20:39 | <@froztbyte> | "It allows a process to make a one-way transition into a "secure" state where it cannot make any system calls except exit(), sigreturn(), read() and write() to already-open file descriptors. Should it attempt any other system calls, the kernel will terminate the process with SIGKILL." |
| 20:39 | <@froztbyte> | my kind of filter! |
| 20:39 | <@froztbyte> | (seccomp) |
| 20:39 | <@Tamber> | Niiiice |
| 21:07 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 21:40 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 21:44 | <@iospace> | catching one of your supervisors on the blizzard forums: priceless :V |
| 21:52 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 22:06 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 22:42 | | * Derakon amuseds at this line in the release notes for the remote procedure call library he uses. |
| 22:42 | <&Derakon> | You can now use "pyro" instead of "PYRO" when creating URIs! |
| 22:42 | <&Derakon> | One wonders if "pYrO" would be accepted~ |
| 22:42 | <&Derakon> | (There are other more significant changes) |
| 22:44 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 22:44 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 22:51 | <&Derakon> | Hm, can't store Python timestamps in 32-bit floating point without losing decimal precision. |
| 22:52 | <&Derakon> | numpy.float32(1377553924.383802) = 1.3775539e+09 |
| 22:52 | <&Derakon> | Guess the timestamps'll have to be relative, from the start of acquisition, rather than absolute. |
| 22:55 | <@Reiv> | Python lacks a definitive TIMESTAMP function? |
| 22:55 | <~Vornicus> | Der: it's not /in/ decimal precision in the first place. |
| 22:55 | <~Vornicus> | oh, I see, you also lose the micros because they fall off the end of the digit limit |
| 22:56 | <@Reiv> | Yeah |
| 22:56 | <&Derakon> | Reiv: time.time(), but its precision appears to be greater than that supported by float32. |
| 22:56 | <@Reiv> | Is there a time variable intended to be used accordingly? |
| 22:56 | <&Derakon> | Basically I need to store when these images are taken in the file alongside the images. |
| 22:56 | <&Derakon> | But I can only use float32 or int32. |
| 22:57 | <&Derakon> | So I have to rebase them; use relative timestamps from the beginning of the experiment, rather than absolute timestamps. |
| 22:57 | <~Vornicus> | ot |
| 22:57 | | * Reiv muses. You could profit from using a long and specifying where the decimal is intended to go... but before you do that, make sure that time.time() isn't giving you a float to begin with >_> |
| 22:57 | <~Vornicus> | 's a double |
| 22:57 | <@Reiv> | why are you forced to use 32? |
| 22:57 | <&Derakon> | File format spec. |
| 22:58 | <@Reiv> | Ach. |
| 22:58 | <&Derakon> | I mean, I could just blindly stuff wider numbers in there. |
| 22:58 | <&Derakon> | But then any code that wasn't my own wouldn't be able to read the header properly. |
| 22:58 | <&Derakon> | (Basically I say how many bytes I need total, then how many 32-bit ints and how many 32-bit floats I'm going to put into that space) |
| 22:59 | <&Derakon> | (On a per-image basis) |
| 23:00 | <&Derakon> | Anyway, relative timestamps seem to work just fine. |
| 23:00 | <&Derakon> | I can still extract absolute time if I really need to; another portion of the header has the start of the experiment (in human-readable format, though). |
| 23:02 | <@Reiv> | Fair enough, then |
| 23:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:04 | <&Derakon> | Night, TW. |
| 23:06 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
| 23:25 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:40 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| --- Log closed Tue Aug 27 00:00:06 2013 |