| --- Log opened Mon Aug 05 00:00:55 2013 |
| 00:25 | | Reiv_ is now known as Reiv |
| 00:32 | <&McMartin> | https://github.com/mtuomi/SecondReality |
| 00:32 | <&McMartin> | The most famous PC demo of all time, source code released |
| 00:34 | | * Vornicus examines the feature list on wikipedia. Man they weren't kidding around. |
| 00:35 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, it's very important to remember that this was from 1993. |
| 00:36 | <&McMartin> | Looks like a lot of the code is 16-bit x86, though, which I think might be a lost art |
| 00:36 | <&McMartin> | Even if it's the only x86 assembler I've ever actually used~ |
| 00:36 | < Reiv> | The most famous demo released, eh |
| 00:36 | < Reiv> | What was it~ |
| 00:36 | < Azash> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFv7mHTf0nA |
| 00:36 | <&McMartin> | A bunch of graphical effects that look like they're from the early 2000s, in 1993, more or less |
| 00:37 | <&McMartin> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Reality |
| 00:37 | <~Vornicus> | for some reason that video defaulted to 144p |
| 00:37 | <~Vornicus> | which is not a very good resolution. |
| 00:37 | <&McMartin> | YouTube despises all humanity |
| 00:37 | <&McMartin> | It keeps doing that to me with everything |
| 00:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | It tries to guess what the highest resolution you can handle without buffering is, and is sometimes unduly pessimistic. |
| 00:40 | <~Vornicus> | ...cripes, that crossed bars one, I'm glad I didn't have it fullscreen |
| 00:44 | <~Vornicus> | That is incredible |
| 00:45 | < Reiv> | This is one of those things where this would have been mindblowing at the time |
| 00:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 00:45 | < Reiv> | And is now kind of naff, unless you comprehend the circumstances under which it was created. |
| 00:45 | < Reiv> | It is a shame how quickly things fall, in the context of PC. |
| 00:45 | < Reiv> | It's a goddamn work of art. |
| 00:46 | < Reiv> | But if I showed it to a couple kids these days, they Wouldn't Get It. |
| 00:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | 1993, so Magic Carpet and System Shock were still a year away. Descent, two years. |
| 00:46 | < Reiv> | Right. |
| 00:47 | < Reiv> | Total Annihilation a full /four/, which is a goddamn entire PC generation |
| 00:48 | <&McMartin> | OTOH |
| 00:48 | <&McMartin> | Kids These Days would also not recognize either language this thing was written in |
| 00:48 | <&McMartin> | And to *that*, as someone who was using both back in 1993, I can only say: |
| 00:48 | <&McMartin> | Good Fucking Riddance |
| 00:49 | <~Vornicus> | Vash came in, said "what's that" and I told her it was a thing made in 1993 and she stood there for a moment and said "that looks like it was a complete pain in the ass to make" and I said "that was the point" |
| 00:49 | <&McMartin> | On the other hand, the sound technology it uses was in common use up through the mid-2000s. |
| 00:49 | <&McMartin> | Woo MODs, etc~ |
| 00:50 | <~Vornicus> | Speaking of fancy graphics I was Very Disappointed to discover that BL2 uses static cube maps to implement reflections off of windows. |
| 00:51 | <&McMartin> | [</3] |
| 00:52 | < Reiv> | Vornicus: ... because it's cheating? |
| 00:53 | < Syka> | do I count as a 'kid these days'? :P |
| 00:53 | <~Vornicus> | Also because it dropped me out of the game to notice the technology they used and how it failed miserably to do what I expected |
| 00:53 | < Syka> | since that demo was released, uh |
| 00:54 | < Syka> | 2 months before I was born |
| 00:54 | < Reiv> | Vornicus: ... how'd it do that? |
| 00:54 | < Syka> | Vornicus: hurrah for consolisation |
| 00:55 | <~Vornicus> | Reiv: well, a static cube map means that every window shows one particular view. |
| 00:55 | <~Vornicus> | Or rather, that all the windows, show that one particular view. |
| 00:55 | < Syka> | when games in 2013 can't do what Doom 3 on the PC did in 2004... :( |
| 00:56 | < Reiv> | ... ahaha. Oops. |
| 00:56 | <~Vornicus> | So the scenery 'reflected' in the window isn't what's actually in front of the window. |
| 00:57 | < Reiv> | Syka: To be fair, Doom 3 in 2004 took a ridiculously powerful machine, and /still/ looked like ass. |
| 00:57 | <~Vornicus> | where's taht "doom 3 screenshot" when you need it |
| 00:57 | <@Namegduf> | I don't know why they don't just not use reflections for that kind of thign. |
| 00:57 | <@Namegduf> | *thing |
| 00:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: because it requires, in effect, rendering the scene multiple times from different viewpoints. |
| 00:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which is expensive. |
| 00:58 | <~Vornicus> | Namegduf: thing is they could have done some Very Simple Things with the world design and avoided the cube map problem entirely - if the windows pointed up instead of down, then they could just color match the sky and I probably wouldn't have noticed. |
| 00:58 | <@Namegduf> | I mean, why not just have non-reflective glass? |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | Because then people mock you for not being able to do what Deus Ex did in 2000, and Deus Ex looked and looks like shit~ |
| 00:59 | <@Namegduf> | Seems pretty foolish. |
| 00:59 | <@Namegduf> | It isn't immersion breaking, reflective glass in video games tends to be absurdly overdone, like bloom. |
| 00:59 | < Syka> | the mirror in doom 3 made me stop playing the game :( |
| 01:00 | < Syka> | because you look at it, the screen goes all red, zooms in, and you quickly age in it, or something |
| 01:00 | <&McMartin> | There is one use of Bloom I find appropriate |
| 01:00 | < Syka> | I was like HA HA NOPE and uninstalled |
| 01:00 | <@Namegduf> | Mirrors look wrong if not reflective, yeah, but windows in real life rarely have noticeable reflection when there's not a huge brightness difference. |
| 01:00 | <&McMartin> | And that's to flare it up briefly on dark/light transitions. |
| 01:01 | <@Namegduf> | Omitting it is going to be way less jarring than doing it massively wrong. |
| 01:01 | < Reiv> | aka the classy way to make the "AUGH WHITE" thing? |
| 01:01 | < Syka> | McMartin: like coming out of the tunnel in the dune buggy in HL2? |
| 01:01 | <&McMartin> | Syka: Yes but twice at fast and not every time you do any transitions~ |
| 01:02 | < Syka> | heh |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | (That was the very example that made me conclude "this is an acceptable use of this technology, but it's still intrusive") |
| 01:02 | < Syka> | well, i dont think Valve put anything of note in there during that |
| 01:02 | <@Namegduf> | Seems sensible. |
| 01:02 | < Syka> | mainly road and bloom |
| 01:02 | < Syka> | unless theres the bit in... ep 1? |
| 01:03 | < Syka> | the train tracks with the sniper |
| 01:03 | < Syka> | i guess that has bloom in that tunnel |
| 01:03 | <&McMartin> | I don't remember much of Ep1 or Ep2, tbh |
| 01:03 | <&McMartin> | So if they did it and I didn't notice, then good for them~ |
| 01:03 | < Syka> | ep1 and ep2 sort of blended into the main game for me |
| 01:03 | <~Vornicus> | ep1 blended into the main game for me. ep2 didn't |
| 01:03 | | * McMartin fires Crusader No Remorse MODs. |
| 01:04 | <@Alek> | mainly because it came SO LONG AFTER. |
| 01:04 | < Syka> | ep2 actually blended in more than 1 for me |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 01:04 | < Syka> | because of the forest bit |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | So, I didn't play HL2 until 2010. |
| 01:04 | < Syka> | well, i only got on steam because I bought the Orange Box |
| 01:04 | <~Vornicus> | by ep2 they had the world brightness set up so gordon's eyes adjusted to the interior light |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | (I played Portal when it came out and I got it in the Orange Box, soo....) |
| 01:04 | < Syka> | so I guess I don't have that problem |
| 01:04 | <~Vornicus> | WHich actually worked out very well. |
| 01:05 | < Syka> | I've also played and completed the HL1 expansions before HL1 (but after playing Black Mesa) |
| 01:05 | < Syka> | which means that I a) know what's going to happen, and b) know what the game is going to throw at me |
| 01:05 | < Syka> | and then there's major BM differences, which throw me off |
| 01:05 | < Syka> | eg. the entirety of On A Rail |
| 01:06 | <~Vornicus> | thing is I really liked the original On A Rail |
| 01:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | You and no-one else on earth~ |
| 01:06 | < Syka> | I didn't like it because I got stuck in several places |
| 01:06 | < Syka> | and had to google 'WHAT DO I DO HERE' |
| 01:07 | < Syka> | because it tells you "NO DON'T STAND ON THE RAILS", and you need to walk up to a blastdoor, which has like 30cm of concrete and the rest is rail |
| 01:07 | <@Namegduf> | This is making me want to watch through Freeman's Mind again. |
| 01:07 | < Syka> | so I sat there looking for a button or something |
| 01:07 | < Syka> | thinking i'd try the Quake 2 solution |
| 01:07 | < Syka> | "There's something not working - must be a button somewhere" |
| 01:08 | < Syka> | also, I found a hall of mirrors section |
| 01:08 | < Syka> | there's a tunnel you don't go down, i think it's the very first one |
| 01:09 | < Syka> | there's no texture on the end - maybe they assumed you wouldn't look down there? |
| 01:09 | | * Alek only signed up on steam because someone was offering a free Orange Box. in... 09? |
| 01:10 | <@Alek> | and I don't regret it for a minute. except when there's a Steam Sale on. XD |
| 01:10 | < Syka> | heh |
| 01:10 | <@Alek> | well, I do regret not joining earlier. >_> |
| 01:11 | < Syka> | yeah same |
| 01:11 | | * Alek has over $2000 worth of games, bought mostly on sales. |
| 01:11 | < Syka> | but i guess I didn't actually have Real Internet until that time |
| 01:11 | <@Alek> | 215 games, but that counts a bunch of expansions. >_> |
| 01:11 | < Syka> | oh god, i don't want to know how much i've spent |
| 01:11 | < Syka> | "All Games: 282" |
| 01:11 | <@Alek> | steamdb.com has a calculator that can tell you the value, if not how much you spent. |
| 01:12 | < Syka> | Linux Games, 46 |
| 01:12 | | * Alek knows he spent less than the 2k. |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, the $ amount there is wildly inaccurate |
| 01:12 | < Syka> | ahahahaha the button is 'get disappointed in your life' |
| 01:12 | <@Alek> | yeah, it's based on current non-sale value. mainly. |
| 01:12 | < Reiv> | Only if you buy everything at 75% off~ |
| 01:12 | < Syka> | games not played, 45% |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | Humble Bundles can result in over 95% off~ |
| 01:12 | < Syka> | 1,500 hours |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | Man, I'm closing in on my 200th game writeup since I started keeping track~ |
| 01:12 | < Syka> | $3376 of games |
| 01:13 | < Syka> | however - I'm an Aussie |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | That lets me pretend I'm being a critic or something even though I'm totally not |
| 01:13 | <@Alek> | although scrolling through, some items had the price crossed out and a -XX% and final price next to that. |
| 01:13 | < Syka> | so double that, because Australian prices |
| 01:13 | <~Vornicus> | I liked it I think partly because I /did/ feel a little lost |
| 01:13 | <@Alek> | so I have no idea what that means. |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | It means "Dishonored is on Sale today"~ |
| 01:13 | <~Vornicus> | It wasn't like earlier zones where I knew exactly where I was going because there was only one path. |
| 01:13 | < Syka> | heh |
| 01:13 | <@Alek> | well, the calculator isn't supposed to count sale value. |
| 01:13 | < Reiv> | McMartin: Actually, I /like/ your reviews because you're /not/ being a game critic |
| 01:14 | <@Alek> | also, I don't have Dishonored. I do have Sleeping Dogs. XD |
| 01:14 | < Syka> | Vornicus: well, there only was one path, technically |
| 01:14 | < Syka> | Vornicus: they just had lots of loops and dead ends |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: Well, I mean in the sense of "I'm interested in why the game works or doesn't" |
| 01:14 | <@Alek> | yes. and some places you had to loop in order to open the main path further. |
| 01:14 | < Syka> | if you shot every ^ v you came across, you got through pretty much |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | Incredipede was interesting in that Normal mode was more interesting than Hard mode even though Hard mode was really obviously intended to be "the real game" |
| 01:15 | < Syka> | heh, game logs |
| 01:15 | < Syka> | I should totally keep one, but it would be polarised as hell |
| 01:15 | | * McMartin likes Backloggery. |
| 01:15 | | * McMartin also likes but doesn't keep a log on howlongtobeat |
| 01:15 | < Syka> | "BF:BC2 - BEST FPS EVER" would be the average one |
| 01:16 | < Reiv> | McMartin: Why was it more interesting? |
| 01:16 | < Syka> | right now i have rediscovered how fun it is |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | Syka: Woo |
| 01:16 | <~Vornicus> | That's the funny thing though. It introduced the train -- which is to say, the epitome of one-path stuff -- and then you get to take lots of different paths. |
| 01:16 | < Syka> | and surprisingly there's still some ~150 australian players |
| 01:16 | < Syka> | on okay-ping servers |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | I've been on a revisit kick lately because of the silly Steam Trading Cards thing, which I'm using as an excuse to drop an odd hour or two into games I beat ages ago |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | A few still hold up! |
| 01:16 | < Syka> | I do have to drag out my windows shitbox |
| 01:16 | < Syka> | because in Wine, the sky is made of flailing triangles |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | Reiv: In brief, because Hard mode is "here is a maze, build an animal with musculature to solve it" |
| 01:16 | <@Alek> | McM: augh, the cards! XD |
| 01:16 | < Syka> | and my gun is made of random polys |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | Band Name Alert: Flailing Triangles |
| 01:17 | < Syka> | haha |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | (I guess they play the Triangle) |
| 01:17 | < Syka> | but yeah, my gun is sometimes... not there |
| 01:17 | < Syka> | i think i have ascreenie |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | Normal is "here's a maze and a creature to solve it with" |
| 01:17 | < Reiv> | Aaah. |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | Hard mode tends to reduce to "find some super mobility forms and use them all the time" |
| 01:18 | < Syka> | aaa o dp |
| 01:18 | < Syka> | id o |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | And unlike how Crayon Physics's Normal Mode was "don't use the awesome stuff all the time" and suffered for it becuase it meant only using lame stuff |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | Incredipede Normal has the occasional hilariously impractical form |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | Including one that requires you to QWOP out some actual brachiation. |
| 01:19 | < Syka> | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14290114/pics/bfbc2.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14290114/pics/polygun.jpg |
| 01:19 | < Syka> | flailing triangles in #1, gun made of polys in #2 |
| 01:19 | <&McMartin> | Ha ha, I thought that was a bridge in 1 |
| 01:19 | <&McMartin> | That reminds me thoguh |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | I've been meaning to see if my Linux Lappy can rock native HL2 |
| 01:20 | < Syka> | now, they didnt stay still |
| 01:20 | < Syka> | imagine if they were randomly flailing |
| 01:20 | < Syka> | like, different position every frame |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I can see what it would be now that it's pointed out |
| 01:20 | < Syka> | also, explosions never went |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | I just didn't get it right away from the still :D |
| 01:20 | < Syka> | they would just... keep exploding |
| 01:20 | < Syka> | ...so you'd join a map halfway through |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | TORGUE |
| 01:20 | < Syka> | and the entire everything is explosions |
| 01:20 | < Syka> | and you can't see shit |
| 01:21 | < Syka> | and your MG3 is a box of polygons |
| 01:21 | < Syka> | and then you get kicked because punkbuster doesnt work |
| 01:21 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | (Anyway, writeups: https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/stack.html ) |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | (I should probably turn this into something easier to navigate at some point) |
| 01:21 | <&McMartin> | (I think that might mean 'migrate it to wordpress or something') |
| 01:21 | < Reiv> | nooo please don't |
| 01:22 | < Reiv> | Just rig the side menu to choose between alphabetical and chronological and we'd be fine |
| 01:22 | <&McMartin> | Well, ideally one would rig *the page itself to* |
| 01:22 | < Syka> | In GLaDOS' voice: "They say a mind is a terrible thing to waste. But this is a brain. Brains are useless." |
| 01:22 | | * Syka hee hee hee |
| 01:26 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 02:03 | | RichyB [RichyB@D553D1.68E9F7.02BB7C.3AF784] has quit [[NS] Quit: Gone.] |
| 02:06 | | RichyB [RichyB@D553D1.68E9F7.02BB7C.3AF784] has joined #code |
| 02:22 | | * ToxicFrog pokes emufun with a stick |
| 03:14 | | ktemkin is now known as ktemkin[bwol] |
| 03:57 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 04:36 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Program Shutting down] |
| 05:12 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:08 | | Xon [Xon@9C034E.A7474E.446F1A.DEA144] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 06:13 | | Xon [Xon@9C034E.A7474E.446F1A.DEA144] has joined #code |
| 06:26 | | ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 06:45 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 07:13 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-ae361035.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 07:14 | <&McMartin> | Man, if I tie up Steam with idling for cards suddenly I get way more code written >_> |
| 07:15 | < Reiv> | ... idling for cards? |
| 07:15 | < Reiv> | What is this sorcery |
| 07:15 | < Reiv> | (Also what are cards /for/ that is the bit I have yet to determine) |
| 07:15 | <&McMartin> | I started caring about the silly Steam Trading Cards thing when I noticed some of them gave you nifty wallpapers~ |
| 07:15 | < Reiv> | ... o rly |
| 07:16 | <&McMartin> | (If you go to Badge Progress and pick a game that you have cards for you can click a card you have twice and it will give you a 1080p image that might have a piece of the card in it) |
| 07:16 | <&McMartin> | Cards are unlocked by logging time in a game, so I take something I want wallpapers for, leave it running for 60-90 minutes, then come back with prizes~ |
| 07:18 | <&McMartin> | Also in this case with about 300 lines of C code written for a JSON parser that will use the same memory management and data structure routines as the rest of Monocle, saving me a few headaches. |
| 07:45 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 09:14 | <@Alek> | mcm: those are the game art that the piece of card art is cut from. they count as the card art. |
| 09:14 | <@Alek> | if you collect a full set of cards for a given game, you trade them in to get steam points, and a chance at some random loot. |
| 09:15 | <@Alek> | like other wallpapers, emoticons, other profile stuff, coupons for other games... |
| 09:15 | <@Alek> | and the steam points raise your steam level, which unlocks more profile options and more friend slots. |
| 09:15 | <@Alek> | that's what I've found so far. |
| 09:16 | <@Alek> | and oh yeah, supposedly if you've gotten all your card drops for a given game, you've got a chance to get a booster pack containing more, random cards. |
| 09:16 | <@Alek> | supposedly. |
| 09:16 | <@Alek> | as long as you're logged on to steam. |
| 09:22 | <@Alek> | oh yeah, trading in the cards also gives you the game's badge. |
| 09:22 | <@Alek> | you can do that up to 5x, increasing it to a max level 5 badge. |
| 09:22 | <@Alek> | and there's a minuscule chance of getting a foil card instead, which collects separately and turns into a separate, foil badge. |
| 09:23 | <@Alek> | also, some games unlock stuff if you've got the game badge. |
| 09:23 | <@Alek> | like Beat Hazard, apparently. |
| 09:23 | <@Alek> | a new ship at basic badge, and another at max badge. |
| 09:31 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:41 | | AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-4b668a07.ph.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 10:13 | | AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-4b668a07.ph.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 10:13 | | AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-4b668a07.ph.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 10:32 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has joined #code |
| 10:36 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 10:42 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has joined #code |
| 10:45 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 10:50 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has joined #code |
| 10:50 | | AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-4b668a07.ph.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 10:53 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 10:57 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has joined #code |
| 11:00 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 11:04 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has joined #code |
| 11:07 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 11:12 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has joined #code |
| 11:15 | | Karono [Karono@Nightstar-13c26ed9.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 11:26 | | Turaiel[Offline] [Brandon@Nightstar-ea8fda76.lnngmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 11:26 | | Typherix [Typherix@Nightstar-ea8fda76.lnngmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 11:26 | | Turaiel[Offline] [Brandon@Nightstar-ea8fda76.lnngmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 11:27 | | Typherix [Typherix@Nightstar-ea8fda76.lnngmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 13:33 | | * TheWatcher hates all over css |
| 13:35 | <@gnolam> | I assume this is BOX MODEL RARHRHGAHGH. |
| 13:35 | < Xon> | a hate css box model party? |
| 13:37 | | ktemkin[bwol] is now known as ktemkin |
| 13:37 | <@gnolam> | (As the incredibly unintuitive Box Model is what's wrong with CSS. The rest is fine. Nowadays, you don't even have to gnash your teeth over IE.) |
| 13:38 | <&McMartin> | (IE once burned me by being *too standards-compliant*, the bastards) |
| 13:38 | <@TheWatcher> | gnolam: got it in one |
| 13:38 | < Reiver> | Box model css? |
| 13:39 | < Syka> | you can fix the box model easily |
| 13:39 | < Syka> | if youre using sass+compass |
| 13:40 | < Syka> | * |
| 13:40 | < Syka> | @include box-sizing(border-box) |
| 13:40 | < Syka> | or whatever |
| 13:41 | < Syka> | which uses the (shockingly) more sane legacy IE box sizing model |
| 13:41 | < Syka> | works IE8+ |
| 13:42 | <@gnolam> | Reiver: the Box Model describes how elements are sized (which in turn affects positioning and suchlike). And it's unintuitive as all fuck. |
| 13:42 | < Syka> | border-box is sane |
| 13:42 | < Syka> | width == content + padding |
| 13:43 | < Syka> | so adding padding makes the content smaller, not the width larger |
| 13:43 | < Syka> | oh and, border is still on the inside |
| 14:01 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 14:35 | | * TheWatcher eyes this |
| 14:35 | <@TheWatcher> | ... why is it not firing the goddamned event when this changes |
| 14:38 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 14:40 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 14:40 | | mode/#code [+o PinkFreud] by ChanServ |
| 14:52 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:16 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 15:16 | | mode/#code [+o PinkFreud] by ChanServ |
| 15:32 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:45 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@Pinkfreud.is.really.fuckin.lame.nightstar.net] has joined #code |
| 15:45 | | mode/#code [+o PinkFreud] by ChanServ |
| 16:02 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@Pinkfreud.is.really.fuckin.lame.nightstar.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 16:08 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 16:08 | | mode/#code [+o PinkFreud] by ChanServ |
| 16:15 | | ktemkin is now known as ktemkin[walk] |
| 16:26 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-ae361035.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code |
| 16:26 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 16:40 | <@gnolam> | From elsechan: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4456438/how-can-i-pass-the-string-null-throug h-wsdl-soap-from-as3-to-coldfusion-web |
| 16:41 | <@Tamber> | ...ha |
| 16:42 | < simon_> | I'm writing some code generation for a reversible language, and I'm using a suggested chunk of calling-convention assembler code for wrapping my procedures. |
| 16:42 | <@TheWatcher> | gnolam: ... |
| 16:43 | < simon_> | it's like "do something; the actual function; do something more" |
| 16:43 | < simon_> | the "do something" and "do something more" depend only on one number specific to the actual function, and everything else is generic. |
| 16:43 | < simon_> | (i.e. an offset related to return jumping) |
| 16:45 | < simon_> | I could embed this chunk of code around every procedure I'm translating, or I could put it somewhere, save the necessary number to a reserved register, and refer to the same chunk of wrapper code every time. |
| 16:46 | < simon_> | the question is: is there any point in doing this? as far as I can see, it's saving program size, but might be increasing use of stack memory, but especially reserving another register for special purposes. |
| 16:48 | < simon_> | it's for an abstract processor, so I can't really say if it's actually bad, but something tells me reserving registers for one purpose risks inefficiency. |
| 16:48 | <@TheWatcher> | The answer largely depends on the constraints your code is running under. Is program size an issue? Are you using all the registers or are most of them idle? |
| 16:50 | < simon_> | yeah, it's too hypothetical. I guess I'm optimizing prematurely. i.e., there are probably 32 registers, but I don't have to care much about that, the processor isn't in use physically (since most reversible computing is mostly theoretical still), and program size isn't an issue. |
| 16:51 | < simon_> | I guess I was looking for an opinion like "calling-convention code might as well always go <somewhere>" |
| 16:52 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, I'd leave off optimising that for now: if the 'do something'/'do something more' are regular, you can always do a code-wide replace later. |
| 16:53 | <@TheWatcher> | (if your assembler allows you do do includes, I'd stick the two chunks in separate files, include them, and let the assembler deal with it, so you have the actual code in one place) |
| 16:54 | < simon_> | I don't actually have an assembler ;) I'm generating code that probably won't be run. it's a drat, but my project is more about the heap-allocation strategy of constant terms. |
| 16:55 | < simon_> | thanks! |
| 17:00 | < simon_> | another exercise I made up is this: I'm making a bijective function between natural numbers encoded as peano numbers (2 = S (S 0)) and in binary trees (2 = Cons (Nil, Cons (Cons (Nil, Nil), Nil))). |
| 17:07 | | ktemkin[walk] is now known as ktemkin |
| 17:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | simon_: I would say, store it someplace and use a register for now, as that's simpler. |
| 17:16 | | ErikMesoy1 [Erik@A08927.B4421D.FE7332.609F63] has joined #code |
| 17:17 | | ErikMesoy [Erik@Nightstar-0fb48670.80-203-17.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:26 | < Syka> | sykas insane things #4534534 |
| 17:26 | < Syka> | writing a distributed map/reduce-esque thing using sqlite |
| 17:26 | < Syka> | attempting to outperform mongodb, purely for laughs |
| 17:27 | <@Tamber> | Depending on how you define that, that could be easy~ |
| 17:27 | < Syka> | i don't mean time to crash |
| 17:28 | <@Tamber> | "/dev/null is the fastest backup device" |
| 17:28 | < Syka> | nah |
| 17:28 | < Syka> | sharded /dev/null is far superior |
| 17:33 | | ErikMesoy1 is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 20:54 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 21:34 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 21:59 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 22:35 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 22:36 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 22:36 | | * Derakon mutters at Windows, Visual Studio, nmake, etc. |
| 22:36 | <&Derakon> | pyNetCam.obj: fatal error LNK1112: module machine type 'X86' conflicts with target machine type 'x64' |
| 22:37 | <&Derakon> | Why the hell are you generating an x86 module? |
| 22:38 | <&Derakon> | http://pastebin.com/TK1BGAn8 |
| 22:38 | <&Derakon> | I don't see anything in there that says "make pyNetCam be x86". |
| 22:38 | <&Derakon> | (As the output of the cl command indicates, I am running the 64-bit compiler) |
| 22:39 | <&Derakon> | Any of you have any idea? |
| 22:39 | <&Derakon> | Because I am rapidly running out of brain. |
| 22:46 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
| 22:46 | <&jerith> | Derakon: What's the /DWIN32 in ther? |
| 22:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Where're you building pyNetCam.obj? I can't see a corresponding cl for that? |
| 22:49 | <&Derakon> | That was it; make clean didn't remove the .obj. |
| 22:49 | <&Derakon> | Thanks. |
| 22:50 | <&Derakon> | jerith: AIUI /DWIN32 is a flag that means "I am not building a 16-bit program", not "I am building a 32-bit program". |
| 22:52 | <&jerith> | I was about to second TheWatcher's comment and suggest a "make clean" and then I noticed that you'd already confirmed that. :-) |
| 22:53 | <&Derakon> | I ran "make clean", but whoever made this makefile didn't make "make clean" actually make clean. |
| 22:53 | <&Derakon> | And I failed to notice. |
| 22:55 | <@TheWatcher> | >.< haet when that happens |
| 23:18 | <&Derakon> | Well, it compiles and links, and now it doesn't run. Still, progress. Thanks again, TW. |
| 23:19 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 23:43 | < [R]> | Math peeps, how to I animate something orbiting? |
| 23:43 | < [R]> | (IE traveling in a perfect circle) |
| 23:44 | <&McMartin> | Graph r = 1, theta = t for ever increasing t? |
| 23:45 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 23:45 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 23:46 | < [R]> | I ask because I am not a math peep. |
| 23:46 | < [R]> | http://xiennith.com:81/game.html <-- what I have so far. |
| 23:48 | <&McMartin> | Circles are constant functions in polar coordinates, so if you can find a thing on rendering polar coordinates in cartesian (aka normal x-y) coordinates that ought to get you started. |
| 23:49 | <&McMartin> | It'll involve spinning an angle and using cosine of that angle as a factor of the x and sine as a factor of the y |
| 23:50 | < [R]> | "polar coordinates" == (infinity, infinity), (infinity, -infinity), (-infinity, infinity), (-infinity, -infinity)? |
| 23:52 | <&McMartin> | No, polar coordinates use (distance, angle) instead of (x, y). |
| 23:53 | < [R]> | Oh, I think I have it |
| 23:54 | < [R]> | Yeah, okay, yay! |
| 23:54 | < [R]> | ,x = 75 + 15 * Math.sin(T) ,y = 75 + 15 * Math.cos(T) |
| 23:54 | <&McMartin> | That looks good to me |
| 23:55 | <&McMartin> | Not sure how it will handle the crossover points, but I guess it ought to |
| 23:56 | | thalass [thalass@Nightstar-a8e66d3f.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code |
| --- Log closed Tue Aug 06 00:00:11 2013 |