| --- Log opened Mon May 20 00:00:36 2013 |
| 00:01 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 00:01 | <@Azash> | 'Cloud' doesn't really refer to the actual pathway to the data though |
| 00:02 | < [R]> | <Jaguarstrike> anyone mind testing? |
| 00:02 | < [R]> | <Jaguarstrike> DONT CLICK IF MOBILE |
| 00:02 | < [R]> | <Jaguarstrike> http://sean-morris.com/board/index.html |
| 00:04 | | * Azash gets Pokemon Blue flashbacks |
| 00:06 | < [R]> | Space to pickup things BTW |
| 00:06 | <@Azash> | Oh |
| 00:06 | <@Azash> | That does simplify it a bit :b |
| 00:09 | <@Azash> | I'm getting ridiculous slow-downs |
| 00:12 | < [R]> | Oh? |
| 00:12 | < [R]> | At what points? |
| 00:12 | | * [R] averages 36 FPS |
| 00:12 | <@Azash> | It got extremely slow, 1-2, whenever lifting things was in progress |
| 00:13 | <@Azash> | And each lifting "session" seemed to permanently lower the normal FPS |
| 00:13 | <@Azash> | It was around 5-10 at the part just after the four "corners" |
| 00:14 | < [R]> | Odd, browser? |
| 00:14 | <@Azash> | Firefox, latest |
| 00:16 | < [R]> | I'll let him know, thanks |
| 00:17 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 00:30 | <@Alek> | it's rather fast for me, most of the time, but there seem to be odd glitches. |
| 00:31 | <@Alek> | like, the last 2 times I tried, whenever I go into the 4th section, it blues out the gamescreen. newgame works, though. |
| 00:31 | <@Alek> | also, Help would be useful. XD |
| 00:31 | | * Alek averages 60 when doing nothing, 50+ most of the time when moving stuff. |
| 00:32 | <@Alek> | ok, it's fallen down to 30+ most of the time, after a few newgames. |
| 00:32 | <@Alek> | chrome, btw. |
| 00:33 | < [R]> | "4th room?" |
| 00:34 | <@Alek> | yup, blued again. |
| 00:34 | <@Alek> | section. the ones separated by moveable walls. |
| 00:34 | <@Alek> | this is the one with 3 barrels, various boxes, including in a wall, and a fireball. |
| 00:35 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:35 | < [R]> | Heh |
| 00:35 | < [R]> | I got a bluescreen coming down the stairs after having an invisible bug |
| 00:38 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:41 | < [R]> | He updated |
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| 01:47 | | * McMartin flips through his copy of Design Patterns, is sad |
| 01:47 | <&McMartin> | I may have to write an essay about this |
| 01:47 | <&McMartin> | It will be ranty |
| 01:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | Please do |
| 01:49 | <&McMartin> | I have to modify the initial thesis, though |
| 01:49 | <&McMartin> | Which was "all of these are to work around language deficiencies" |
| 01:49 | <&McMartin> | Some of them are "you have forgotten these basic and extremely important things when zomgject orientation devoured your tiny brain" |
| 01:50 | <&McMartin> | The "Facade pattern" is a restatement of the importance of modularization. |
| 01:50 | <&McMartin> | At the level above Individual Fucking Data Structures. |
| 01:50 | <&McMartin> | And a handful of them are "hey, this is actually a decent way to build an engine if you are working on a problem where the engine would consume data of this form" |
| 01:51 | <&McMartin> | And then there's the Decorator class, which is "compensating for a language deficiency" but the "deficiency" is something I generally think languages shouldn't have, so~ |
| 01:51 | <&McMartin> | Decorator replaces mixin inheritance and by virtue of Not Being A Form Of Multiple Inheritance is automatically vastly superior to it~ |
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| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | OK, also Composite gets to live |
| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | Gosh, I wonder if my biases are showing, in that all the good ones are "alternatives to inheritance" =P |
| 02:48 | | * Derakon idly checks the Pyrel codebase, finds inheritance all over the place~ |
| 02:49 | <&Derakon> | Granted the inheritances are generally only one layer deep. |
| 02:49 | <&Derakon> | E.g. all user commands descend from Command, all in-game entities descend from Thing, etc. |
| 03:01 | <&McMartin> | That sounds closer to stock polymorphism than inheritance |
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| 03:13 | <&Derakon> | Well, there's some functionality implemented in the base class. |
| 03:33 | <@celticminstrel> | ...ooh. I suddenly realize why this doesn't work. |
| 03:33 | <@celticminstrel> | I was using || with the expectation that it would not short-circuit. v_v |
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| 05:18 | <~Vornicus> | Okay. Home again. Now to figure out what the space I'm actually up to in c++. |
| 05:19 | <&McMartin> | Are you using boost, and specifically boost::shared_ptr |
| 05:21 | <~Vornicus> | I've never touched boost and the last time I tried I couldn't get it to do anything for me. |
| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | boost::shared_ptr makes pointers be properly reference-counted |
| 05:21 | <&McMartin> | It should just be a header include, with no additional overhead. |
| 05:23 | <~Vornicus> | At a few points in the evening's considerations I thought briefly about working in Java. |
| 05:23 | <~Vornicus> | Just because i know where to find the damn documentation. |
| 05:25 | <~Vornicus> | As far as Things I Need To Do, apparently first on the list is a red-black tree I can splice. |
| 05:31 | <@celticminstrel> | Finally I can say that the thing definitely is beatable. http://celmin.pwcsite.com/malandread/ |
| 05:31 | <@celticminstrel> | Having just now beaten it. |
| 05:35 | <~Vornicus> | hooray |
| 05:35 | <@celticminstrel> | Though I can't guarantee it'll work in all browsers. Tested in Firefox, expect it'll probably work in Chrome and Safari, know it won't work in IE, and uncertain about Opera. |
| 05:40 | <&Derakon> | What do you use for field of view calculations? |
| 05:41 | <&Derakon> | Also, failing to name your character makes the messages mildly confusing. :) |
| 05:44 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh. |
| 05:45 | <@celticminstrel> | "Permissive Field of View" |
| 05:45 | <@celticminstrel> | I found some code for it on roguebasin. |
| 05:46 | <@celticminstrel> | I would be unsurprised if there are still some bugs. |
| 05:48 | <@celticminstrel> | Documentation probably also needs work... |
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| 05:50 | | * Derakon flails uselessly with his dagger at Noximander for a couple dozen turns; switches to throwing darts and takes him down in no time. |
| 05:50 | <&Derakon> | Also, the acid shield doesn't seem to do anything? |
| 05:51 | <&Derakon> | Getting burned by acid did no damage to him anyway. |
| 05:51 | <&Derakon> | I seem to be totally unable to harm most enemies on level 2, as well. |
| 05:51 | <@celticminstrel> | What class? |
| 05:51 | <&Derakon> | Fighter. |
| 05:51 | <&Derakon> | I'm totally reliant on crits to deal damage to e.g. bats. |
| 05:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Getting burned by acid reduces defence and/or power. |
| 05:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Rather than dealing direct damage. |
| 05:52 | <&Derakon> | Ah. |
| 05:52 | <&Derakon> | Didn't have any noticeable impact on my (in)ability to hurt him. |
| 05:52 | <@celticminstrel> | ...I should probably lower the defence of ~'s. |
| 05:52 | <&Derakon> | I'm doing diddly to this skeleton too. |
| 05:53 | <&Derakon> | How long are fights supposed to last? |
| 05:53 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not sure... after gaining a few levels as a mage I was able to one-hit a lot of weaker creatures in melee. |
| 05:54 | <@celticminstrel> | But sometimes fights would take ten or more hits to bring down the enemy. |
| 05:54 | <&Derakon> | ...yeah, I've been fighting this skeleton for a couple hundred turns now. |
| 05:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Eep. |
| 05:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, I should probably do a test run as a fighter later... and one as a monk... tweak some things... |
| 05:55 | <@celticminstrel> | I said it was beatable, not that it was balanced. >_> |
| 05:55 | <&Derakon> | ...hm, and despite that messages say I'm dealing damage, it appears to be stuck at 4HP. |
| 05:55 | <&Derakon> | What exactly does energy do? It appears to be used up by combat but doesn't seem to affect results when I have it vs. when I don't. |
| 05:56 | <@celticminstrel> | It does reduce your damage output somewhat. |
| 05:56 | <~Vornicus> | Or I could C# or something. Searching for C++ documentation is giving me grumpies. |
| 05:57 | <@celticminstrel> | You shouldn't see any effects until the energy bar turns yellow; once it's empty, you'll be doing almost half as much damage as when it's half full. Between half full and full there's no difference. |
| 05:58 | <&Derakon> | Okay, my energy drains in like 8 rounds of combat, so I was running around with no energy. |
| 05:58 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 05:58 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe I need to reduce the energy drain even more. |
| 05:58 | <&Derakon> | Why do you even have it affect melee? |
| 05:58 | <@Reiv> | You've been playing as a mage too much haven't you :P |
| 05:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Yup. XD |
| 05:59 | <&Derakon> | The usual shtick is that melee is unlimited but puts you at risk of being attacked, while magic is ranged and never misses but requires mana. |
| 05:59 | <@celticminstrel> | Not all the magic is ranged. But it's true that most of it is. |
| 05:59 | <@Reiv> | Perhaps being at full energy could give a bonus to thumping things; such trickery can make it much more pleasant to, eg, dispatch the odd mook. |
| 06:00 | <@Reiv> | As opposed to a penalty thereof. |
| 06:00 | <@celticminstrel> | At present, being at full energy gives an additional 20% damage, though that probably won't have much effect in lower levels... |
| 06:00 | <&Derakon> | Okay, I exagerrated slightly; 11 attacks to go from full to half energy. |
| 06:00 | <&Derakon> | Note that every single one of these attacks did 0 damage against a skeleton. |
| 06:00 | <@celticminstrel> | But, hm, I see. |
| 06:00 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, uh |
| 06:01 | <&Derakon> | (I even found a new sword, which I assume is better than the dagger I started with, not that I can tell) |
| 06:01 | <@celticminstrel> | Basically reverse the scale. |
| 06:01 | <@Reiv> | You always want to try /all/ classes, in case your math is horribly wrong. :p |
| 06:01 | | * Derakon throws a dart at the skeleton, hits for 11 damage, which is more than three times what he's achieved with his sword. |
| 06:01 | <&Derakon> | In any fight. |
| 06:02 | <@Reiv> | Clearly, the mage used ranged weapons so he got those right~ |
| 06:02 | <&Derakon> | Heh. |
| 06:02 | <@celticminstrel> | So between 50% and 100% your damage is multiplied by something greater than zero, and between 0% and 50% you just have the basic roll. |
| 06:02 | <@celticminstrel> | . |
| 06:02 | <@celticminstrel> | Sounds like a reasonable idea. |
| 06:02 | <@Reiv> | Mmmmnhn, maybe |
| 06:02 | <&Derakon> | First things first, I'd fix it so the fighter has a better than 5% chance of damaging enemies on any given combat roll~ |
| 06:03 | <&Derakon> | I mean, monsters can't hurt me either, but this is not exactly riveting combat~ |
| 06:03 | <@Reiv> | It would be a good way to denerf to begin with, but I was actually suggesting "Full hit does a chunk more, then it's basic; energy proper is used for Special Moves or something". |
| 06:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah, but I'd need to add special moves first. |
| 06:04 | <@Reiv> | Indeed. Fix the basics first. Leave the energy meter out of it entirely. Add it in later when it's vaugely usable. |
| 06:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Which, to be fair, I've been contemplating. |
| 06:04 | <@Reiv> | Mages cast spells, right? |
| 06:04 | | * Vornicus grumps around at documentation |
| 06:04 | <@celticminstrel> | Yes. |
| 06:04 | <@Reiv> | Fighters hit things three times as hard, or can stand still for +defense, or sprint, or something. |
| 06:04 | <@celticminstrel> | But other classes also can if they find a spellbook. |
| 06:04 | <@Reiv> | These are all Totally Not Spells, Honest |
| 06:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Ooh, I kinda like the +defence one. |
| 06:05 | <@celticminstrel> | Adding it to the Ideas List. |
| 06:05 | <@celticminstrel> | What do you mean by sprint? |
| 06:05 | | * Reiv has a whole List of Cool Yet Reasonable Fighter Moves for various RPG things he's toyed with in the past. |
| 06:05 | <&Derakon> | Anyway, I'm gonna stop now. It looks promising, honestly. Nice work. :) |
| 06:05 | <&Derakon> | Sprinting typically doubles movement speed for a bit or something similar. |
| 06:05 | <@Reiv> | Moving extra quickly for a period of time. |
| 06:06 | <@Reiv> | Great way to, eg, close with a ranged critter, or Get Outta Dodge against a big smasher. |
| 06:06 | <@celticminstrel> | So basically the same as a hasting potion. |
| 06:06 | <@Reiv> | Right. Inbuilt and burning energy. |
| 06:06 | <@celticminstrel> | "hitting three times as hard" - do you mean unconditionally? |
| 06:06 | <@Reiv> | Probably not. These ideas are not literal. |
| 06:06 | <&Derakon> | I think he means "a special melee attack that hits extra hard but costs energy". |
| 06:06 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 06:07 | <@Reiv> | Yep. Possibly with caveats or the like (movement restrictions, defense reductions, or whatever) |
| 06:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Charge is on the list of ideas. |
| 06:07 | | * Reiv notes in passing he's an RPG designer in his spare time. He can provide *plenty* of Fun Stuff if you want to implement it. |
| 06:08 | <&Derakon> | Reiv: you know, Pyrel is designed to be easily-modded~ |
| 06:08 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm open to ideas, at least. May not implement them, but will at least consider them. |
| 06:08 | <@Reiv> | A particuarly amusing one, at times, can be something equivalent to Shove; wherein you thump the badguy and he moves backwards. If you have terrain hazards, this can be really funny. It's a headache, though. :P |
| 06:09 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't have terrain hazards. |
| 06:09 | <@Reiv> | Likewise, a Sweep attack or the like which lets you thump multple foes in front of you at once; great if you're attacked by swarmers (a mage would use Fireball) |
| 06:09 | <&Derakon> | Subsidiary damage if the monster is backed up against a wall, then. |
| 06:09 | <@celticminstrel> | Sure. |
| 06:09 | <@celticminstrel> | Similar to how you can crash into a wall for damage if you're confused! |
| 06:10 | <@Reiv> | And the ever popular Second Wind wherein, under the right circumstances, you can temporarily recover some portion of your health. |
| 06:10 | <@celticminstrel> | What sort of circumstances? |
| 06:11 | <@Reiv> | Usually when you're badly hurt, with some variety of conditionals to make it something you don't do automatically. |
| 06:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Kinda like the berserk rage, then (which currently only monsters have). |
| 06:11 | <&Derakon> | Adrenaline rushes can have nasty crashes after a bit~ |
| 06:11 | <@celticminstrel> | Except gaining health instead of attack power. |
| 06:11 | <~Vornicus> | (4e makes second wind a once-per-encounter 'standard action') |
| 06:12 | <@Reiv> | Either when there's a method of restricting how often it's used, when there's some way of identifying when it's a Desperate Fight, a semi-random modifier, or simply that it's bloody dangerous to actually employ. (Got food as a stat? Maybe it makes you extra hungry...) |
| 06:12 | <@celticminstrel> | I do have food. |
| 06:12 | <&Derakon> | Food's a stat, but my aforementioned fighter had a small banquet in his pack by the time he'd finished 1.5 levels~ |
| 06:12 | <&Derakon> | Still, that can be tweaked via item rarities. |
| 06:13 | <@Reiv> | One fun option, then (numbers asspulled, don't quote me): +10 Health for 10 rounds, then -1 Health & -1 Food for 10 rounds after that. |
| 06:13 | <&Derakon> | Oh, Reiv, if you can handle playing ASCII roguelikes, you might want to check out Sil; it's been getting rave reviews in the Angband community. |
| 06:13 | <@Reiv> | Must be below half health & half energy to use, or summat. |
| 06:13 | <&Derakon> | http://www.amirrorclear.net/flowers/game/sil/ |
| 06:13 | <@Reiv> | Derakon: I love roguelikes; I do not love ASCII roguelikes. This is most roguelikes. This makes me sad~ |
| 06:14 | <&Derakon> | Alas. |
| 06:14 | <&Derakon> | ASCII is wonderfully information-dense. |
| 06:14 | <@celticminstrel> | Someone is theoretically making tiles for this one. They're very slow at it though. |
| 06:14 | <@Reiv> | That's part of the problem, yes. |
| 06:14 | <@Reiv> | But yeah, something like that can be fun, celticminstrel |
| 06:14 | <~Vornicus> | ASCII sucks for me because they very often use colors to distinguish between things. |
| 06:15 | <&Derakon> | You're colorblind? |
| 06:15 | <~Vornicus> | And nobody on the planet seems to pick colors correctly. |
| 06:15 | <~Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 06:15 | <@Reiv> | So you can live when you would die! ... but it's temporary, and charges interest. :p |
| 06:15 | <&Derakon> | FWIW Pyrel's color scaling for HP starts at pale blue and goes through to red, instead of starting at green. |
| 06:16 | <@celticminstrel> | Would these abilities be activated randomly or deliberately? |
| 06:16 | <~Vornicus> | I have the most common type of colorblindness, which makes red and orange indistinguishable on black backgrounds (but not on white), bright red and bright green sometimes indistinguishable from yellow, dark green indistinguishable from black (my mother had a dark green volvo for years and I kept telling people it was black)... |
| 06:16 | <&Derakon> | The latter, definitely. |
| 06:17 | <~Vornicus> | sometimes dark brown and dark green are hard to tell apart |
| 06:17 | | * Derakon ponders using accented characters to provide further separation between entities of a given class. |
| 06:17 | <@celticminstrel> | Is that a suggestion? |
| 06:17 | <&Derakon> | So e.g. a red e would be a Radiation Eye, while a blue ? would be a Disenchanter Eye. |
| 06:18 | <&Derakon> | (Both of the "floating eyeball" monster class) |
| 06:18 | <~Vornicus> | On smaller fonts, the difference between accent directions can be nearly nonexistant |
| 06:18 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay, doesn't sound like it's addressed at me. >_> |
| 06:18 | <&Derakon> | It'd be an extra hint in addition to color, Vorn. |
| 06:19 | <&Derakon> | Better than nothing. |
| 06:19 | <&Derakon> | ? would be for beholders, naturally~ |
| 06:20 | <&Derakon> | Anyway, bedtime for me. G'night. |
| 06:20 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:20 | <@celticminstrel> | Good night. |
| 06:21 | <~Vornicus> | nider |
| 06:25 | <@Reiv> | celticminstrel: The ones I've mentioned are deliberate. |
| 06:26 | <@Reiv> | It's possible to have random effects too, but they're trickier. |
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| 14:09 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
| 14:10 | <@Tamber> | o.o |
| 14:10 | <@TheWatcher> | some of the ways that students find to overcomplicate a simple singly-linked list just boggle my headbones sometimes. |
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| 15:27 | <&Derakon> | You should have seen my first attempt at a sorting algorithm, TW. Algorithmically, it was fine, but the way I moved the data around was mind-boggling. |
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| 16:11 | < Xon> | TheWatcher, speaking of linked lists; http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1201227 |
| 16:11 | < Xon> | "Is this interview question unfair? " |
| 16:11 | < Xon> | I went into that thread expecting so much more |
| 16:12 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
| 16:13 | | * TheWatcher sigh |
| 16:13 | <@Syka> | man, if I ever get to a job that wants me to implement a sorting algorithm or linked list, I will fail so hard |
| 16:14 | <@Syka> | and I don't think that they'll find 'import sort' funny |
| 16:14 | <@Tamber> | import syksort; |
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| 16:29 | < RichyB> | If I ever fall into a job interview that asks me to sort a singly-linked list, I will get rejected on grounds of personal immaturity. |
| 16:30 | < RichyB> | Specifically because I wrote https://github.com/RichardBarrell/snippets/blob/master/bubble.c for fun a while ago and it contains an implementation of a bottom-up merge sort. |
| 16:30 | < RichyB> | I wrote it primarily because now I can say that I have successfully implemented the BUMS algorithm. |
| 16:31 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 16:34 | <@TheWatcher> | As long as its a good implementation that works efficiently, wouldn't want to think you'd made an arse of it. |
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| 17:15 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm, adjusted some stuff, and now a level 0 fighter can one-hit level 0 flying creatures. |
| 17:48 | <@froztbyte> | is that good or bad? |
| 17:49 | <@celticminstrel> | I'm not sure. |
| 17:49 | <@celticminstrel> | It's better than having to hack away for 10 or 20 rounds, though. |
| 17:49 | <@froztbyte> | hehe |
| 17:54 | | * TheWatcher has a brief, painful flashback to cliff racers in Morrowind |
| 18:11 | <@celticminstrel> | ? |
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| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | [git] Jon rebases like there's no tomorrow. |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | [git] Jon says, "also, no yesterday, since I'm rewriting history." |
| 21:44 | < Nemu> | Man, you ge such a high off of rebasin |
| 21:44 | < Nemu> | *rebasing |
| 21:44 | < Nemu> | It's a shame it doesn't last long, and you have to buy some more |
| 21:49 | < RichyB> | Haven't you discovered the Great Easter Egg of Git yet, Nemu? |
| 21:50 | < RichyB> | Every git verb (except maybe "commit") can be expressed in terms of a series of rebase operations. ;) |
| 21:55 | <~Vornicus> | This is a terrible, terrible thought |
| 21:56 | <@froztbyte> | just by extension |
| 21:58 | <@froztbyte> | <ytti> ISA, PCI, NOPE |
| 21:58 | <@froztbyte> | <ytti> http://static.mellbimbo.eu/files/2013/05/20/1034479-20130519-Batp4v.jpg |
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| 22:07 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay, so part of the reason why there was so much food is that some monsters drop it, and monsters that drop specific loot had a 50% chance of dropping something. |
| 22:09 | < Nemu> | Hmm. Do you think rebasing is turing-complete? |
| 22:09 | <&McMartin> | It doesn't have recursion or conditionals, does it? |
| 22:10 | < RichyB> | If you could trick rerere or bisect into writing into the .git directory itself, you might be able to set up a tape with a read/write head. |
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| 23:40 | < RichyB> | God damn but Clojure looks nice. |
| 23:40 | < RichyB> | People keep writing shit like this in it. https://github.com/aphyr/interval-metrics |
| 23:42 | < RichyB> | I am beyond bored with using shitting Python 2.4 at work. |
| 23:44 | | * McMartin hands RichyB a consolatory dictionary comprehension from three versions later |
| 23:45 | < RichyB> | Pro tip: if anyone ever suggests building a non-trivial application using a CMS as if it were an application framework, refuse. |
| 23:48 | <&McMartin> | http://fogus.github.io/marginalia/ is probably my favorite single Clojure project |
| 23:52 | < [R]> | That sounds horrible |
| 23:52 | < [R]> | Aren't most CMS' now trying to be AFs anyways? |
| 23:53 | < RichyB> | AHAHAHA |
| 23:53 | < RichyB> | [R]: I really hope so for purely malicious reasons. |
| 23:53 | < RichyB> | The one we're wedged into, Plone, did that a few years back. |
| 23:54 | < RichyB> | The entire community has changed tack to, "Wow, attempting to use a highly-featureful heavily-opinionated CMS as an application framework is actually a really bad idea. Oops." |
| 23:54 | < RichyB> | As in, speakers at PloneConf explaining that and kinda apologising to the audience. ;P |
| 23:54 | < RichyB> | Annnnyway |
| 23:55 | | * McMartin . |
| 23:55 | < RichyB> | If all of the other CMSes are trying to turn into application frameworks then yay, because they're all going to find out just how badly that entire concept sucks the hard way too. |
| 23:55 | <&McMartin> | # Ensure that the directory specified by path exists. If not then make it so. Here is a snowman ? |
| 23:56 | <@Tamber> | # Make it snow, man. |
| 23:56 | | * RichyB . . o O ( on the other paw, it's possible that the "let's be an app framework!" experiment that the Plone community tried actually failed due to internal suckage in Plone, not due to the idea itself being crazy ) |
| 23:56 | <@froztbyte> | <RichyB> I am beyond bored with using shitting Python 2.4 at work. |
| 23:56 | <@froztbyte> | heh yeah, I know how that feels. |
| 23:56 | | * RichyB . . o O ( but I'm not convinced ) |
| 23:56 | <&McMartin> | RichyB: Hmm. |
| 23:57 | <&McMartin> | Could one implement a CMS within an app framework? |
| 23:57 | <@froztbyte> | I've also had a bit of clojure reading experience, and it does seem kinda nice |
| 23:57 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: huh? |
| 23:57 | < RichyB> | McMartin: yes, of course. Very often they *are*. |
| 23:57 | < RichyB> | e.g. Plone is implemented inside the AF called Zope. |
| 23:57 | <@froztbyte> | oh, right |
| 23:57 | <@froztbyte> | yeah, what RichyB said |
| 23:58 | <@froztbyte> | abuse the app bits to build "content generics" |
| 23:58 | <@froztbyte> | (badly) |
| 23:58 | <@froztbyte> | then try to plug things together |
| 23:58 | <@froztbyte> | rinse and repeat until you have a nice rickety pile of fail |
| 23:58 | <&McMartin> | OK |
| 23:58 | <@froztbyte> | now lament the fact that you can't change any of the pillars |
| 23:58 | <&McMartin> | (I have basically no experience with any kind of serious server-side development) |
| 23:58 | <@froztbyte> | I have lots of experience with fixing other people's broken shit :( |
| 23:58 | < RichyB> | My current opinion of Plone/Zope is that it's a really interesting community because pretty much every good or bad idea that anyone's thought of in web framework design has been tried in it. |
| 23:59 | | * froztbyte has a hell of a monkeypatching skill level |
| 23:59 | < RichyB> | The Plone community is a gold mine if you are interested in learning about which ideas to avoid like the plague. :3 |
| 23:59 | <&McMartin> | RichyB: Heh |
| 23:59 | < RichyB> | Annnnnd a bunch of good ideas, too. |
| 23:59 | <@froztbyte> | perl, erlang, haskell, java, c, c++, python, php, tcl, bash, csh, tcsh, lisp |
| 23:59 | <@froztbyte> | bring it |
| 23:59 | <@froztbyte> | I can monkeypatch it. |
| --- Log closed Tue May 21 00:00:08 2013 |