| --- Log opened Mon May 06 00:00:47 2013 |
| 00:14 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 01:39 | <&McMartin> | http://bigocheatsheet.com/ |
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| 02:16 | < sshine> | McMartin, I just saw that sheet a couple of hours ago. is there a reason you link to it? |
| 02:16 | <&McMartin> | I felt it might be of general interest |
| 02:24 | < sshine> | right. it's pretty neat. |
| 02:26 | <@Reiv> | I complain that the Data Structures specifies O(logn) as good as O(1) when there is no 'fair' result on that column anyway |
| 02:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | What? No it doesn't. |
| 02:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh wait wrong chart |
| 02:33 | <@gnolam> | Reiv: ? |
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| 03:13 | <~Vornicus> | 74447y66666666y vvvf |
| 03:14 | <@Azash> | I, for one, welcome our new feline overlords |
| 03:15 | < AverageJoe> | hi Haeroe |
| 03:15 | <@Azash> | Sup AJ |
| 03:17 | | * McMartin mutters as he attempts to modify some old code to instead dump prettily-formatted JSON. |
| 03:18 | <@Azash> | McMartin: You mean prettily formatted as in readable? |
| 03:19 | <&McMartin> | Also nicely vertically lined up and with lines that are a bit short |
| 03:19 | <@Azash> | Hm |
| 03:20 | <&McMartin> | Before it just printed stuff out in tables |
| 03:20 | <&McMartin> | So making it be technically legal JSON would be pretty easy, but I'd like it to, you know, look good. |
| 03:21 | <&McMartin> | Context: Ten years ago I designed a mesh format based on IFF. I want to turn it into JSON so that I can write viewers in WebGL. |
| 03:21 | <@Azash> | What language are you working in? |
| 03:22 | <&McMartin> | C, because that's what the original code was in and it's easier to just adapt that than write a new file parser &c |
| 03:23 | <@Azash> | Hm.. |
| 03:24 | <&McMartin> | This isn't *difficult |
| 03:24 | <@Azash> | I can't think of any ways that aren't painful, sorry |
| 03:24 | <&McMartin> | * |
| 03:24 | <&McMartin> | It's just a matter of counting spaces. |
| 03:24 | <&McMartin> | The mesh format was pretty rigid. |
| 03:24 | <&McMartin> | And I don't have to *parse* JSON later. |
| 03:27 | | Arsonist [NSwebIRC@5E691D.2E3702.5A8720.190CB5] has joined #code |
| 03:27 | < Arsonist> | do I have to do strcpy to take a pointer to a string and get it into a character array? (in C) |
| 03:27 | < Arsonist> | I'm new to C, so I'm not sure if that even makes sense |
| 03:27 | <&McMartin> | It almost makes sense. |
| 03:27 | < Arsonist> | yay :) |
| 03:27 | < Arsonist> | what part doesn't? |
| 03:28 | <&McMartin> | You used the word "string"~ |
| 03:28 | < Arsonist> | err yeah |
| 03:28 | < Arsonist> | ok, a pointer to a character |
| 03:28 | <&McMartin> | I think the question is thus... "Do I have to do strcpy to take a pointer to a character array and copy those characters into some other character array?" |
| 03:28 | <&McMartin> | The answer there is "mostly, yes" |
| 03:28 | <&McMartin> | There are two caveats |
| 03:29 | <&McMartin> | (a) This assumes the string is known to be null-terminated and smaller than your target array. |
| 03:29 | <&McMartin> | (b) This assumes the string contains no other nulls. |
| 03:29 | < Arsonist> | nice |
| 03:29 | < Arsonist> | glad I assumed those :) |
| 03:29 | < Arsonist> | thanks for the help! |
| 03:29 | <&McMartin> | Caveat (a) is actually a huge problem, and you are well advised to use strncpy instead. |
| 03:30 | < Arsonist> | ah, I'm assuming the n is max length? |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | Caveat (b) is often less important, but when it matters, memcpy is the way to go |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | Kinda |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | It's the size of the buffer, but it will not actually set the terminator for you |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | So... |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | char foo[BUFSIZ]; |
| 03:30 | < Arsonist> | so I'd still need to set the null char at the end if it's longer? |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | strncpy(foo, s, BUFSIZ); |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | foo[BUFSIZ-1] = 0; |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | That'll do it |
| 03:31 | < Arsonist> | nice |
| 03:31 | <&McMartin> | You can just force-set the last element, that's always right |
| 03:31 | <&McMartin> | It'll copy the null if there's room |
| 03:31 | <&McMartin> | Your timing is good |
| 03:31 | <&McMartin> | I have to take off now, but string messiness in C is something I'm doing in the other window *right now*.~ |
| 03:31 | | * McMartin ducks out for a bit |
| 03:31 | < Arsonist> | You're the most helpful person I've ever met on IRC |
| 03:31 | < Arsonist> | straightforward and to the point |
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| 04:03 | <&McMartin> | Ok, I think I've got it. |
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| 04:07 | <&McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/ascii_ships.txt |
| 04:08 | <@Azash> | Nice |
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| 05:15 | < mac> | anybody know how to send an array of objects to a function? |
| 05:15 | <@Azash> | What language? |
| 05:16 | < mac> | c++ |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | An array is a pointer is an array. |
| 05:17 | <@Azash> | ^ |
| 05:17 | | * Turaiel facepalms |
| 05:17 | < Turaiel> | Maaaac. |
| 05:17 | <@Azash> | Have the function accept an object pointer |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | Unfortunately, arrays don't have any way to detect the size. |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | So you'll have to pass that in separately. |
| 05:18 | <~Vornicus> | I'm not entirely sure what drugs the creators of C/C++ were on when they thought htat was a good plan. |
| 05:18 | <@Azash> | Oh, arrays aren't null-terminated? |
| 05:18 | | * Azash is not a C++ person |
| 05:18 | < Turaiel> | Noep. |
| 05:18 | < Turaiel> | Except argv. |
| 05:18 | <@Azash> | You'd have thought that was high up on Stroustrup's list |
| 05:19 | <~Vornicus> | Null termination sucks too |
| 05:19 | < Turaiel> | It's understandable that K&R and ANSI C arrays are not null terminated. Space was of the essence. I'd expect at least something to the effect in C99 and C++ though. |
| 05:20 | < Turaiel> | The world is not perfect, however. |
| 05:20 | < Turaiel> | Well, maybe in the later versions of C++... |
| 05:21 | < Turaiel> | I didn't realize it was as old as it is. |
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| 06:56 | <&McMartin> | 21:16 <@Azash> You'd have thought that was high up on Stroustrup's list |
| 06:56 | <&McMartin> | std::vector is your criend |
| 06:56 | <&McMartin> | *friend |
| 06:56 | <&McMartin> | As is const std::vector&, which is a pointer to a sized array that you can't mess with. |
| 07:06 | | * Vornicus pokes at this code. Why is he encoding and decoding integers instead of using simple tuples, which are trivial to unpack |
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| 08:32 | <&jerith> | I am insane: https://github.com/jerith/claypellet |
| 08:38 | <@froztbyte> | jerith: I recommend you indicate what "current" is for the CFFI part |
| 08:38 | <@froztbyte> | so that when the info page gets stale, people don't wonder |
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| 08:47 | < jeroud_> | froztbyte: Anything newer than yesterday afternoon will do. |
| 08:53 | <@froztbyte> | jeroud_: but 3 months down the line I'd need to check the commit date for the readme, and -devel might be broken in some other fashion then |
| 08:53 | <@froztbyte> | that's more the situation I was alluding to |
| 08:54 | <&jerith> | froztbyte: arigato and fijal don't habitually have broken code in their dev branches. |
| 08:55 | <&jerith> | But now, to work. |
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| 10:06 | <@froztbyte> | http://repos.e-x-a.org/view.cgi/rash/ |
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| 19:50 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | ... |
| 19:50 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | There is an entry in the bugtracker titled "unspecified leek-based catastrophe" |
| 19:51 | <@Azash> | Is that a memory leek or a TOR problem? |
| 19:53 | | * Tamber ties a specimen of Allium Ampeloprasum to TF. |
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| 21:51 | <@froztbyte> | http://www.alexstjohn.com/WP/2013/04/29/found-directx-time-capsule/ |
| 21:56 | <@gnolam> | "Direct3D would never have been necessary to create if it weren't for the inter-group rivalry between Windows95 and WindowsNT that caused the NT group to refuse to share their OpenGL license with the Windows95 team." |
| 21:58 | <@froztbyte> | it's kinda awesome to see someone write frankly about all these components |
| 21:59 | <@froztbyte> | and to know that they are, in fact, as god-awfully terrible as they've always impressed people with being |
| 21:59 | <@froztbyte> | (and have just as terrible a lineage) |
| 22:01 | <@froztbyte> | I recall first struggling with COM stuff being broken when I was 11 or so |
| 22:01 | <@froztbyte> | maybe even younger |
| 22:01 | <@froztbyte> | win95 desktop that had gone retarded |
| 22:01 | <&McMartin> | COM is an attempted solution to a problem with no good solutions >_< |
| 22:02 | <@froztbyte> | I had 0 clue about /anything/ programming related and it seemed like a very rickety pile of fail |
| 22:40 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | For a minute there I thought you were talking COM as in windows/dos serial port jackassery and was very confused |
| 22:40 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 22:40 | | ToxicFrog|W`rkn is now known as ToxicFrog |
| 22:52 | <&McMartin> | That COM is no better or worse than any other solution involving serial ports, which is admittedly pretty bad~ |
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| 22:53 | <@froztbyte> | I recently had some slight adventure with code on windows |
| 22:53 | <@froztbyte> | was trying to write some twisted (as in, the python framework) code that would interact with a serial port on windows |
| 22:53 | <@froztbyte> | later we decided that windows is just a crappy way to run the base system (for networking and whatnot), reloaded it with linux and put the windows in a VM |
| 22:54 | <@froztbyte> | so fortunately that problem was entirely shitcanned |
| 22:54 | <@froztbyte> | but holy shit was that painful and full of dumb spiders :/ |
| 22:54 | <&McMartin> | Did the Linux code also have to work with the serial port? |
| 22:54 | <@froztbyte> | getting it going well in linux was literally a couple of seconds of work |
| 22:54 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: yeah |
| 22:54 | <@froztbyte> | identical system |
| 22:55 | <&McMartin> | Huh. What was the difference? |
| 22:55 | <@froztbyte> | I literally just had to spend a couple of seconds tweaking the existing code, updated the character device info of where twisted would have to find the port, and tada |
| 22:55 | <&McMartin> | Do the Linux drivers sneak in error correction, or |
| 22:55 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: combination of reactor differences and code+documentation in various stages of migration to the new endpoints-based architecture that twisted is moving to |
| 22:56 | <&McMartin> | Aha, OK, so, twisted-specific |
| 22:56 | <@froztbyte> | yes, somewhat |
| 22:56 | <&McMartin> | (I've only touched serial devices in kernel code, which is spiderful, but, well) |
| 22:56 | <@froztbyte> | I did investigate the python serial module a bit too |
| 22:56 | <@froztbyte> | and it seems that even there I may have had some specific pain points |
| 22:56 | <@froztbyte> | but didn't end up testing it |
| 22:57 | <@froztbyte> | but...yeah |
| 22:57 | <@froztbyte> | serial devices are really a shitton easier to deal with in linux |
| 22:57 | | * McMartin nods |
| 22:57 | <@froztbyte> | the 'everything is a file' thing works bloody wonders for treating serial as a character device |
| 22:58 | <@froztbyte> | and I think that by and large, most RS232 sort of things are extremely well-supported, or using the barest of functionality to get by |
| 22:58 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 22:58 | <@froztbyte> | in the "8n1, baud, off you go" sense |
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| 22:58 | <@froztbyte> | RS485 is a bit more exotic |
| 22:58 | <&McMartin> | The issue I ran into, IIRC, is that some serial ports would drop characters if you weren't careful about it |
| 22:58 | <@froztbyte> | yeah |
| 22:59 | <@froztbyte> | there's a bit of signalling and synchro crap you can run into |
| 22:59 | <@froztbyte> | but that's the usual controller/hardware issue with this stuff |
| 23:00 | <@froztbyte> | (I know we have some people in channel who do spend a lot more of their time dealing with these things, so I just want to make it clear that I by no means claim to be an expert on this topic, just know enough to get by reasonably painlessly for most of my uses) |
| 23:00 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 23:00 | <&McMartin> | I've also only used this on machines running in VMs |
| 23:00 | <@froztbyte> | mmmmmm |
| 23:00 | <&McMartin> | And in a VM the virtual serial port is often a literal character stream and life is way, way easier |
| 23:00 | <@froztbyte> | that *specific* mode is one I haven't actually tested much |
| 23:01 | <&McMartin> | It's ezmode, AIUI |
| 23:01 | <@froztbyte> | but I'm fairly certain it breaks some things very particularly |
| 23:01 | | * McMartin nods |
| 23:01 | <&McMartin> | I can just throw stuff at it, though, and then read out of a domain socket, and then victory is mine |
| 23:01 | <@froztbyte> | in the sense of the VM emulating a fairly specific piece of hardware, or "reference implementation" perfect hardware |
| 23:01 | <@froztbyte> | and then subtle mismatches happen elsewhere |
| 23:02 | <@froztbyte> | handoff timings, chip default negotiations, etc |
| 23:02 | <@froztbyte> | and because none of these tools are built to be fairly explicit about the stuff... |
| 23:02 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: btw, ttywatcher |
| 23:02 | <@froztbyte> | err, I think it was that one |
| 23:03 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 23:03 | <&McMartin> | I mean, the code I was writing is always in a VM *when deployed* |
| 23:03 | <&McMartin> | So I get to have 'perfect' hardware |
| 23:03 | <@froztbyte> | ah yes, ttylog and ttywatcher |
| 23:03 | <@froztbyte> | very useful things when reverse engineering some serial :) |
| 23:04 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: ah, cool |
| 23:04 | <@froztbyte> | VM-based deployment is an interesting idea |
| 23:04 | <@froztbyte> | you get a lot of "here's our software demo" approaches to it |
| 23:05 | <@froztbyte> | but I do think there's a place for VM-based shipping on large enough sort of projects |
| 23:05 | <@froztbyte> | perhaps especially so in the academic world where people almost universally seem less familiar with the toolchains around |
| 23:05 | <&McMartin> | The company I work for uses VM-based deployments as a Desktop-as-a-service kind of thing. |
| 23:06 | <@froztbyte> | how so? citrix model, or something else? |
| 23:07 | <&McMartin> | We're in some sense one of their competitors. We focus more on central policy control stuff, so we seem to be more popular with guys that do BYOD etc |
| 23:08 | <@froztbyte> | hmm |
| 23:08 | <@froztbyte> | I don't actually know where you work |
| 23:09 | <@froztbyte> | and had for some reason thought you were one of the few people who worked in academia and had clue |
| 23:11 | <&McMartin> | I did; I'm at MokaFive now, have been for some time. |
| 23:12 | <&McMartin> | Their general story is having the corporate environment be a movable bubble of sorts, so that you have a workable intermediary level between "corporate desktop" and general anarchy |
| 23:12 | <&McMartin> | So encrypted VM image is the "transport layer", basically. |
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| 23:13 | <&McMartin> | But it's not the thing being sold the way it was with, say, Pocket ACE |
| 23:13 | <@froztbyte> | yeah, I get the model |
| 23:14 | <@froztbyte> | and that's exactly the kind of situation I had in mind |
| 23:14 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 23:14 | <@froztbyte> | "too much effort/cost to try roll it out on all desktops, but customer still wants product" makes VMs a damned good middleground |
| 23:14 | <&McMartin> | Yup |
| 23:15 | <@froztbyte> | especially with how far the VM tech on commodity hardware has gotten in the last 15 years |
| 23:15 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: so, aside |
| 23:15 | <@froztbyte> | have you guys got people bitten by the SDN bug yet? |
| 23:21 | <@TheWatcher> | Still Does Nothing?~ |
| 23:22 | <@froztbyte> | lulz |
| 23:22 | <@froztbyte> | Software Defined Networking |
| 23:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Aah. |
| 23:22 | <@froztbyte> | it's ..... weird |
| 23:22 | <@froztbyte> | the tech has a bunch of cool potential |
| 23:23 | <@froztbyte> | but I expect to see a hell of a lot of brokenness as a result of morons trying to use it badly |
| 23:23 | <@froztbyte> | (in a sense, I expect it might be the "cpanel of networking") |
| 23:23 | <@froztbyte> | http://packetlife.net/blog/2013/may/2/what-hell-sdn/ |
| 23:23 | <@froztbyte> | that said, I need to bail for slep |
| 23:23 | <@froztbyte> | \o |
| 23:24 | <@TheWatcher> | Ni |
| 23:24 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: do share comments if there are, though, I'll read in the morning :) |
| 23:25 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 23:26 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
| 23:32 | <&McMartin> | This stuff seems pretty unfamiliar to me, though I suppose my official position on a lot of it would be "it'd be cool if we seamlessly interoperated with it without having to care" |
| 23:34 | <&McMartin> | We have no published products that make a big deal out of this technology as far as I know, but it also feels like it operates at a level "below" us. |
| 23:47 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:53 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| --- Log closed Tue May 07 00:00:02 2013 |