| --- Log opened Fri Apr 12 00:00:22 2013 |
| --- Day changed Fri Apr 12 2013 |
| 00:00 | | thalass [thalass@Nightstar-f97b970e.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code |
| 00:16 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 00:16 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 00:18 | | Vorntastic [Vorn@Nightstar-221158c7.sd.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Bye] |
| 00:18 | | Vorntastic [Vorn@Nightstar-221158c7.sd.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 00:18 | | Vorntastic [Vorn@Nightstar-221158c7.sd.cox.net] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 00:29 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:47 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 01:03 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has joined #code |
| 01:03 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 01:12 | | celmin [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 01:12 | | mode/#code [+o celmin] by ChanServ |
| 01:14 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has quit [NickServ (GHOST command used by celmin)] |
| 01:14 | | celmin is now known as celticminstrel |
| 01:18 | | celmin [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 01:18 | | mode/#code [+o celmin] by ChanServ |
| 01:18 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has quit [NickServ (GHOST command used by celmin)] |
| 01:18 | | celmin is now known as celticminstrel |
| 01:18 | <@celticminstrel> | . |
| 01:20 | | celmin [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 01:20 | | mode/#code [+o celmin] by ChanServ |
| 01:21 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has quit [NickServ (GHOST command used by celmin)] |
| 01:21 | | celmin is now known as celticminstrel |
| 01:22 | | OrthiaLap [orthia@3CF3A5.E1CD01.B089B9.1E14D1] has joined #code |
| 01:28 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-948421b4.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 01:28 | | mode/#code [+o Rhamphoryncus] by ChanServ |
| 01:34 | | OrthiaLap [orthia@3CF3A5.E1CD01.B089B9.1E14D1] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:37 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 01:38 | | celmin [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 01:38 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has quit [NickServ (GHOST command used by celmin)] |
| 01:38 | | celmin is now known as celticminstrel |
| 01:38 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 01:38 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] |
| 01:38 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 01:39 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 02:18 | | ToxicFrog|W`rkn is now known as ToxicFrog |
| 02:39 | | thalass is now known as Thalass|swimmings |
| 02:41 | | syksleep is now known as Syk |
| 02:41 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Program Shutting down] |
| 03:07 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 04:03 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-228a334c.plus.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: >:3 This is BunThulhu. Copy him into your quit message to help him take over the Internet.] |
| 04:22 | | Thalass|swimmings is now known as Thalass |
| 04:28 | | mark [gt@Nightstar-bfe2f658.wi.charter.com] has joined #code |
| 04:30 | | mark [gt@Nightstar-bfe2f658.wi.charter.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 04:43 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 04:43 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 04:43 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 05:34 | | Courage [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 05:36 | | Courage [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has joined #code |
| 05:36 | | mode/#code [+o Courage] by ChanServ |
| 05:52 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 06:00 | | Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Xon, Syk, @JustBob, @Namegduf, @gnolam, @Tarinaky, @Rhamphoryncus, @iospace, @PinkFreud, @EvilDarkLord, (+7 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) |
| 06:01 | | Netsplit over, joins: @JustBob, @Courage, @PinkFreud, &jerith, @iospace, &Derakon, @froztbyte, @gnolam, @Tarinaky, @Reiv (+7 more) |
| 06:04 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 06:08 | <@Azash> | 07:03 <+x> i present to you, something i found on a prod box managed by puppet |
| 06:08 | <@Azash> | 07:03 <+x> 21 21 * * * sleep 600 ; command-here |
| 06:18 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 06:22 | <&Derakon> | And what does command-here do? |
| 06:22 | <@Azash> | It was redacted |
| 06:22 | <@Azash> | I think the funny was in someone making a cronjob that starts with sleep 600 |
| 06:23 | <&Derakon> | Probably couldn't be arsed to figure out what the syntax was to start on the 10th minute of the hour. |
| 06:23 | < Syk> | haha |
| 06:23 | | ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 06:23 | < Syk> | man, looking at puppet/chef/salt |
| 06:24 | <@Azash> | Derakon: But they already set it to start at 21:21 |
| 06:24 | <&Derakon> | Ah, whups. |
| 06:24 | < Syk> | puppet and chef look crippled |
| 06:36 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:44 | | Xires is now known as ^Xires |
| 07:07 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 07:29 | <&jerith> | I've written cron jobs that start with a 'sleep $(($RANDOM * 600))' before. Mostly so that a thousand machines don't all hammer the server at once. |
| 07:32 | < Syk> | Active Directory has something like that built into it |
| 07:32 | < Syk> | and as far as I know, you can't turn it off |
| 07:33 | < Syk> | the quad-gigabit server backed with dual-hexacore-with-HT CPUs, 15K SAS and 32GB of RAM is like BRING IT ON |
| 07:33 | < Syk> | and it still takes an entire day |
| 08:39 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 08:45 | <@froztbyte> | in what way do they seem crippled? |
| 08:53 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 08:56 | < Syk> | froztbyte: one is paid, the other is 'free up to x nodes' |
| 08:56 | <@froztbyte> | wat |
| 08:56 | <@froztbyte> | no |
| 08:56 | < Syk> | wat? |
| 08:57 | <@froztbyte> | those services are the same as ubuntu's cloud manager shit |
| 08:57 | <@froztbyte> | you still get the option to take the pieces and build them all yourself |
| 09:03 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-948421b4.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 09:04 | < Syk> | froztbyte: huh? |
| 09:04 | < Syk> | you can run your own Landscape? |
| 09:05 | <@froztbyte> | no, I was referring to the puppet enterprise and chef whateverface things there |
| 09:05 | <@froztbyte> | but you might be able to run your own Landscape |
| 09:05 | <@froztbyte> | I don't know |
| 09:05 | <&jerith> | puppet and chef are both open source. |
| 09:05 | < Syk> | huh |
| 09:05 | <@froztbyte> | personally I like to involve myself as little as possible with ubuntu :P |
| 09:05 | <@froztbyte> | Syk: chef and puppet are config management systems |
| 09:05 | < Syk> | maybe I need to reread the marketing spiels then |
| 09:06 | <&jerith> | You can set them up for free yourself or pay for someone else's service. |
| 09:06 | <@froztbyte> | the "entities"/businesses who are the main driving force behind them do also sell services based on them |
| 09:06 | <@froztbyte> | Puppet Labs sells Puppet Enterprise and some other warehousing stuff, for instance |
| 09:06 | <@froztbyte> | but you can still set up puppet-dashboard and puppetmaster and all of that yourself |
| 09:07 | < Syk> | hmm |
| 09:20 | | Kindamoody|out [Kindamoody@Nightstar-e9aa495d.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 09:22 | | Kindamoody|out [Kindamoody@Nightstar-e9aa495d.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 09:22 | | mode/#code [+o Kindamoody|out] by ChanServ |
| 09:23 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 09:30 | | Kindamoody|out [Kindamoody@Nightstar-e9aa495d.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 09:38 | | Kindamoody|autojoin [Kindamoody@Nightstar-e9aa495d.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 09:38 | | mode/#code [+o Kindamoody|autojoin] by ChanServ |
| 09:47 | | Kindamoody|autojoin [Kindamoody@Nightstar-e9aa495d.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 11:11 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-228a334c.plus.com] has joined #code |
| 11:31 | | Kindamoody|autojoin [Kindamoody@Nightstar-e9aa495d.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 11:31 | | mode/#code [+o Kindamoody|autojoin] by ChanServ |
| 11:37 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 11:37 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 11:53 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 12:06 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 12:06 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 12:25 | | Thalass is now known as Thalass|OMGKSP |
| 12:54 | | Thalass|OMGKSP [thalass@Nightstar-f97b970e.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:58 | | Kindamoody|autojoin is now known as Kindamoody |
| 14:53 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-228a334c.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 14:57 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-228a334c.plus.com] has joined #code |
| 15:27 | | thalass [thalass@Nightstar-f97b970e.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code |
| 15:54 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-e9aa495d.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 15:55 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:56 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-e9aa495d.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 15:56 | | mode/#code [+o Kindamoody] by ChanServ |
| 16:07 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 16:07 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 16:46 | | thalass is now known as Thalasleep |
| 16:46 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 16:46 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 16:50 | | Thalasleep [thalass@Nightstar-f97b970e.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 16:58 | | Syk_ [the@Nightstar-7d9a4f15.iinet.net.au] has joined #code |
| 16:59 | | Syk_ [the@Nightstar-7d9a4f15.iinet.net.au] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 16:59 | | Syka [the@Nightstar-7d9a4f15.iinet.net.au] has joined #code |
| 17:01 | | Syk [the@Nightstar-497c52a3.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:08 | | mac [mac@Nightstar-fe8a1f12.il.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 17:09 | < mac> | hey guys, just wondering. Should i look into learning C# for webdev or Ruby on rails? I already know PHP, and its a mess. Also does any one have books/websites they could recommend? |
| 17:09 | < Syka> | C# + ASP.NET is horrible and you should run away from it |
| 17:11 | < Syka> | Ruby On Rails has its fans, but recently has had a few sec vulns |
| 17:12 | < Syka> | mac: I (plus a few others here) would recommend giving Twisted (a Python framework) a look-in |
| 17:13 | < Syka> | mac: http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/current/web/howto/using-twistedweb.html < this here gives an overview of Twisted, but you don't have to use it so directly |
| 17:13 | < Syka> | mac: there's frameworks such as Klein ( https://github.com/twisted/klein ) that do things like routing for you |
| 17:14 | < Syka> | mac: and then you also have libraries such as txpostgres that allow you to do asynchronous database communication using Twisted's deferreds (think callbacks in JS) |
| 17:17 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 17:18 | < Syka> | mac: it's a tonne more complicated than PHP, yes, but it's also the Right Way to do web services |
| 17:20 | <@celticminstrel> | ... |
| 17:22 | <@froztbyte> | I'd say less complicated, tbh |
| 17:22 | <@froztbyte> | things actually work |
| 17:22 | <@froztbyte> | rather than having to get to know the whole maze |
| 17:22 | <@froztbyte> | (PHP == maze) |
| 17:24 | < Syka> | froztbyte: well, Python is more complicated than PHP for 'I want web page to appear' |
| 17:24 | < Syka> | but anything past 'hello world' is way in python's favour |
| 17:24 | < Syka> | like, anything to do with a database |
| 17:24 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 17:25 | < Syka> | I don't even know what 'mysql_real_escape_string' is |
| 17:25 | <@froztbyte> | yeah, but that's fine |
| 17:25 | < Syka> | and I don't want to know |
| 17:25 | < Syka> | because I might cry blood |
| 17:25 | <@froztbyte> | I'd rather have "slightly more involved, but correct" |
| 17:25 | <@froztbyte> | than "oh my holy gods what is going ON" |
| 17:25 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: nah, go look |
| 17:25 | <@froztbyte> | you'll enjoy it! |
| 17:25 | < Syka> | no pls |
| 17:25 | < Syka> | I am about to go to bed |
| 17:26 | < Syka> | I have enough awful dreams as it is |
| 17:26 | < Syka> | last night I had a Who Wants To Be A Millionare + sky diving mash up |
| 17:26 | < Syka> | I don't need mysql in there too |
| 17:27 | <@celticminstrel> | MySQL is annoying. |
| 17:28 | < Syka> | I prefer using SQLite to MySQL in networking situations |
| 17:29 | < Syka> | I will literally set up a samba share with a sqlite db on it to avoid using mysql |
| 17:29 | <@froztbyte> | sqlite is good for many things |
| 17:29 | <@celticminstrel> | Sure. |
| 17:29 | < Syka> | sqlite is beautiful |
| 17:29 | < Syka> | if sqlite won't do it, PostgreSQL will |
| 17:30 | <@celticminstrel> | Yup. |
| 17:30 | < Syka> | if PostgreSQL won't do it, you probably don't want to use SQL in the first place |
| 17:30 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh. |
| 17:30 | <@Tamber> | Syka, the mistress of slightly scary solutions involving digital duct-tape. |
| 17:31 | <@froztbyte> | those are all still fairly decent |
| 17:31 | < Syka> | have I told the story where I made a web service made of PHP execing bash scripts? |
| 17:31 | < Syka> | and had this on the open internet for six months? |
| 17:31 | < Syka> | that was fun. |
| 17:31 | <@froztbyte> | the stuff you find in telcos.... |
| 17:32 | < Syka> | oh god don't get me started with some of the stuff I've seen Telstra do |
| 17:32 | < Syka> | it's like they got an elegant solution |
| 17:32 | < Syka> | made it a mishmash of ASP, perl scripts and Java |
| 17:32 | < Syka> | beat it with the Kludge Hammer |
| 17:32 | < Syka> | and delivered it six months late |
| 17:33 | < Syka> | better than IBM |
| 17:34 | < Syka> | IBM are being investigated by the feds here in Australia for delivering a non-working payroll system that's 4x over budget, projected to be 5x before it works, and late |
| 17:34 | < Syka> | the current project cost is $1 billion AUD |
| 17:40 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-e9aa495d.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:45 | | Kindamoody [Kindamoody@Nightstar-e9aa495d.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #code |
| 17:45 | | mode/#code [+o Kindamoody] by ChanServ |
| 17:48 | <@froztbyte> | lulz |
| 17:58 | | DeadDog is now known as Wires |
| 18:00 | <@Azash> | Syka: Wish that would cause investigations over here |
| 18:00 | <@Azash> | But the only result I've seen is Accidenture just getting bigger contractts |
| 18:00 | <@Azash> | s/tt/t/ |
| 18:01 | < ErikMesoy> | ah yes, Accenture, the company with the name allegedly chosen to be as hard as possible to pronounce while drunk so that drunken employees couldn't incriminate their employer :P |
| 18:10 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 18:10 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 18:21 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:32 | <@froztbyte> | heh |
| 18:34 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 18:34 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 18:36 | | Syka is now known as syksleep |
| 18:42 | <@celticminstrel> | Boost.Asio is strange. |
| 18:44 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-228a334c.plus.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: >:3 This is BunThulhu. Copy him into your quit message to help him take over the Internet.] |
| 18:55 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:56 | | * ErikMesoy angsts at the general difficulty of making something simple, readable and powerful. ;_; |
| 18:59 | <@Wires> | Problems of design: difficult. But rewards of completion: who can measure? |
| 19:05 | | syksleep_ [the@Nightstar-e88fc396.iinet.net.au] has joined #code |
| 19:08 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 19:08 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 19:08 | | syksleep [the@Nightstar-7d9a4f15.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:15 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: it takes practice, keep going |
| 19:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | ErikMesoy: you become a better programmer by writing programs. Often, terrible programs. But write them you must. |
| 19:46 | <@froztbyte> | also by reading code |
| 19:46 | <@froztbyte> | so read lots of code |
| 19:47 | < ErikMesoy> | Thank you for the sympathy. :) |
| 19:58 | | ^Xires is now known as Xires |
| 20:03 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 20:06 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 20:23 | | Courage [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:32 | | syksleep [the@Nightstar-04b65676.iinet.net.au] has joined #code |
| 20:35 | | syksleep_ [the@Nightstar-e88fc396.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:51 | <&McMartin> | Design really is where the art lives |
| 20:55 | <&McMartin> | Ahahahahahahaha |
| 20:55 | <&McMartin> | Warning: sound |
| 20:55 | <&McMartin> | Also, probably really old but I just found it, so Hooray (tm) |
| 20:55 | <&McMartin> | http://starlogs.net/#michaelcmartin/Ophis |
| 20:55 | <@froztbyte> | :D |
| 20:57 | | * celticminstrel occasionally wishes for a ... what's it called... "combine key"? |
| 20:57 | <&McMartin> | Compose? |
| 20:58 | <&McMartin> | The one where you can hit u and " and get ?? |
| 20:58 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, that one. |
| 20:59 | <@celticminstrel> | I have some auto-replace things set up that sorta make ` behave like this for certain combinations, but it doesn't always work. |
| 20:59 | <@froztbyte> | those auto-replace things seem like a pain |
| 20:59 | <@froztbyte> | because they might Do The Wrong Thing |
| 21:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm? |
| 21:00 | <@froztbyte> | but speakers of languages where the grave accent and such are more common have assured me that they're fairly useful to have around |
| 21:00 | <@celticminstrel> | They're sequences of characters beginning with ` that are replaced with something else; in my case, mostly IPA characters. |
| 21:01 | <@froztbyte> | yes, I'm familiar with what you mean |
| 21:01 | <@Tamber> | celticminstrel, remap the right-windows key as a compose key, maybe? |
| 21:01 | <@froztbyte> | but, as an example, I tend to often display some command by surrounding it in `` |
| 21:01 | <@froztbyte> | in which case when it gets wrong-replaced, I'll get angry :D |
| 21:02 | <@Tamber> | Unless, of course. you don't have rwin on your keyboard; in which case, I have no idea. |
| 21:02 | <@celticminstrel> | I use right-command key. |
| 21:03 | <&McMartin> | Oh hm, Afrikaans has a lot more diacriticals than I thought. |
| 21:03 | <@celticminstrel> | Ah, true froztbyte. |
| 21:03 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: indeed |
| 21:04 | <&McMartin> | And yet, it can be represented in Latin-1 and Dutch cannot >_> |
| 21:04 | <@froztbyte> | rofl |
| 21:04 | <@celticminstrel> | XD |
| 21:05 | | * McMartin had to do some wikiwalking to confirm that this was so because it would Not Have Been His First Guess |
| 21:05 | <&McMartin> | Also: "An example of five consecutive doubled letters is the word voorraaddoos (supply box)." |
| 21:05 | <@celticminstrel> | I wonder if I could find a way to make Fn behave like a compose key... |
| 21:07 | <@froztbyte> | voorraad, transliterated, is "before advice" |
| 21:07 | <@froztbyte> | or "that which is wise to take along ahead of time" |
| 21:09 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: Ha ha, nice. |
| 21:09 | <&McMartin> | Sounds like supplies to me |
| 21:09 | <&McMartin> | ! |
| 21:09 | <&McMartin> | OK, and now I can link it to English. |
| 21:09 | <&McMartin> | fore-read[iness] |
| 21:09 | <@froztbyte> | indeed |
| 21:10 | <@froztbyte> | doos is also kinda funny |
| 21:10 | <@froztbyte> | the older meaning of the word is, as indicated there, box |
| 21:10 | <@froztbyte> | the newer is "cunt" |
| 21:10 | <&McMartin> | Trace that one back and you get "burrow" |
| 21:10 | <&McMartin> | Trace the more clinical ones back and you get "sheathe" |
| 21:11 | <@froztbyte> | that would make sense for the second meaning, in fact |
| 21:11 | <@froztbyte> | I love etomology |
| 21:11 | <@froztbyte> | you always find the coolest stuff |
| 21:11 | <&McMartin> | English has spoiled me totally, so the idea that you'd just have one word for all this stuff is vaguely alien |
| 21:11 | <&McMartin> | "Can't you just mug some other language and... oh, right" |
| 21:11 | <@froztbyte> | :D |
| 21:11 | <&McMartin> | But yeah, I was wrong above. |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | If that's "*advice*", it's probably raed, not ready |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | As in Alfred ("Advised by Elfs") |
| 21:12 | <@froztbyte> | well, it could be both, tbh |
| 21:12 | <@froztbyte> | the meanings from afrikaans to english can be a bit fluent |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | Oh, that was Dutch quoted, not afrikaans directly, though they are of course related |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | "raed" is Eald Anglisc, and I vaguely remember being hit with a virtual stick over "raed" and "ready" not really being cognate |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | (There was a king named something that invites a reading like "Ethelred the Unready" and this is apparently Very Wrong. It is instead "...the Poorly Advised") |
| 21:15 | <&McMartin> | ... there is an asteroid named after ASCII. |
| 21:15 | <&McMartin> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3568_ASCII |
| 21:17 | <@Tamber> | McM: AE?elread II? |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | Tamber: That looks right. |
| 21:17 | | * McMartin learned about this stuff in the gutter, more or less. |
| 21:17 | <@Tamber> | Oh, not quite. |
| 21:17 | <@Tamber> | AE?elraed, apparently |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | Maybe that's raed, not read... yeah |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | AE?elraed Unraed |
| 21:18 | <@Tamber> | Language is a strange thing. |
| 21:18 | <@Tamber> | You'd almost think a whole bunch of different people thought the damn thing up and couldn't quite agree on the details(!) |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | Well, the ones we've been throwing around here are fun because they're all very very closely related |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | English and Afrikaans are, um, second cousins or so, I guess. |
| 21:21 | <&McMartin> | From a German speaker: "Dutch is what you get when English and German get really drunk at a party, a baby results from this, and that baby is dropped on its head" |
| 21:21 | <@Tamber> | hee |
| 21:21 | | Wires is now known as AnnoDomini |
| 21:27 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: winsteroid |
| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: your german speaker forgot to mention that drunken sex which english had with french. and latin. and some others. |
| 21:29 | <@Tamber> | "We... try not to remember those. Especially after that incident with the toy poodle." |
| 21:29 | <&McMartin> | English kind of got around, yes |
| 21:30 | <&McMartin> | (But I think it's the case that Dutch is the closest "major" language to both English and German has a lot of traits midway between the two) |
| 21:30 | <&McMartin> | (*and has a lot of) |
| 21:30 | <@froztbyte> | dutch is sneaksy |
| 21:30 | <@froztbyte> | also |
| 21:31 | <@froztbyte> | I'm fluent in afrikaans and english, and capable to various degrees in german/french/dutch |
| 21:31 | <@froztbyte> | that makes for remarkably tricky language use when I'm tired :D |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | Ha ha, oh dear |
| 21:32 | <@froztbyte> | words start coming to mind in all the wrong languages |
| 21:32 | <@Tamber> | I'm fluent in Bad English, and Incoherent Mumble; and that's about it. |
| 21:32 | <@froztbyte> | and I do runtime ECC on sentence order |
| 21:33 | | * Tamber adds [UTTERANCES] to own raws. |
| 21:33 | <&McMartin> | I was never clear if this was because America is mostly a linguistic monoculture or not, but there's definitely the case that for people who are decent in a bunch of languages here, when they get tired they'll aim for one language (not native) and keep getting another (also not native) even when it's totally different - Aim for Spanish, get Japanese, etc. |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | "What's that word in Foreign, again >_>" |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | is it really a monoculture, though? |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | The US? Not overall |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | my understanding was that you guys had about 20+ flavours of english due to the various cultural colonies |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | Oh, um, no, quite the opposite. |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | We have a bunch of accents. |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | no, I mean like |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | But those "accents" have more in common than any random hundred square miles of England itself |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | the ways different areas will go about calling things |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | Oh |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | Sorta. |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | some areas you can find traces of the germanic roots |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | others of the irish |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | etc |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | There's a tiny bit of that, but you have to look very hard. |
| 21:35 | | * froztbyte looks that hard by default |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | A lot of it's more just "how the regions developed over time" |
| 21:35 | | * froztbyte just calls it attentiveness |
| 21:35 | <&McMartin> | Right, but, I mean. |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | not glaring? |
| 21:36 | <&McMartin> | The difference between New England, Chicago, Deep Southern, and Pacific Northwest American English is much less than the difference between, say, Cockney and Lancastrian. |
| 21:36 | <@froztbyte> | okay yeah, I get that |
| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | I'd need to be convinced it varied by region. |
| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | I have noticably German-influenced English at the word choice level, but the people that twig to that are "people with Jewish grandmas", not "people from location X of the US" |
| 21:38 | <&McMartin> | (Because Yiddish influences it the same way) |
| 21:40 | <@froztbyte> | I could probably pick up that people were from different regions, given enough sample set to compare |
| 21:40 | <@froztbyte> | but I wouldn't be able to pinpoint to where, mostly due to a lack of familiarity with them all |
| 21:40 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, that is possible |
| 21:40 | <&McMartin> | But it's things like "shape of this vowel or that" |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | People from one city in California, or large swathes of Texas, have merged the vowels in "pin" and "pen" |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | I'm from California, I don't do that, but I *do* merge the vowels in "cot" and "caught", and so do most of the Pacific Coastal Cities. |
| 21:41 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | Only a few regions in the US (mostly Northeast) distinguish "marry", "merry", and "Mary". |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | Etc. |
| 21:42 | <@froztbyte> | :) |
| 21:42 | <&McMartin> | As opposed to, say, "is only barely mutually comprehensible" |
| 21:43 | | * Tamber eyes Yorkshire. |
| 21:44 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:46 | <@gnolam> | <froztbyte> the older meaning of the word is, as indicated there, box |
| 21:46 | <@gnolam> | <froztbyte> the newer is "cunt" |
| 21:46 | <@gnolam> | Hah! |
| 21:46 | <@gnolam> | The Swedish cognate of that word ("dosa") has the latter meaning as an /archaic/ meaning. :D |
| 21:47 | <&McMartin> | "box" of course has this meaning in English in the (in)appropriate contexts |
| 21:47 | <@froztbyte> | and dosa is /now/ box/container? |
| 21:47 | <@gnolam> | The primary meaning has always been box/container. |
| 21:48 | <@froztbyte> | ah |
| 21:48 | < ErikMesoy> | froztbyte: After a day of playing with dictdictdicts and % formatting, I find myself starting to think that this isn't working either because of the difficulties of doing nontrivial conditionals/switches/etc inside a dict. :-( |
| 21:48 | <@gnolam> | But the meaning referring to female genitalia died out in the beginning of the last century or so. |
| 21:49 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: that's why I said, don't do conditions *in* the dict |
| 21:49 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: store properties you want, and have another function act on those accordingly |
| 21:50 | < ErikMesoy> | Yeah, but doing them outside means leaving lots of conditional-pointers in the dict and writing outside functions and then I wonder what's the point of the dict in the first place. |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | hmm |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | reading up about capability systems might help |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: well, consider an mp3 or ogg or flac or whatever |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | you could just have the raw file |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | but that by itself doesn't help much |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | so you have a filename to add some semantic info |
| 21:53 | <@froztbyte> | but that's still not brilliant until you enforce some rules |
| 21:53 | <@froztbyte> | or you can use tagging *along* with the filename |
| 21:53 | <@froztbyte> | that way the filename is a hint, and the tags add more info |
| 21:53 | <@froztbyte> | you want to use a similar approach for the stuff you store in the dicts |
| 21:54 | <@froztbyte> | and then probably something like this in the filter code: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability-based_security |
| 21:54 | <@froztbyte> | (because then you can just have a well-referenced set of caps globally, and deal with all that uniformly) |
| 21:55 | | * ErikMesoy feels vaguely like shaking down Black Isle Studioes for the Infinity Engine spec. Or whoever owns it these days. |
| 21:58 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 21:58 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 22:00 | | mac [mac@Nightstar-fe8a1f12.il.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] |
| 22:05 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:11 | < ErikMesoy> | The way I heard the Ethelred story is that "Unready" used to mean "Unadvised" and now means "Unprepared". |
| 22:12 | < ErikMesoy> | Vaguely reminiscent of an Exalted RPG player who complained about how "Mount Doom" in LOTR sounds like an out-of-place cliche and I translated it to "Mount Endings" for his context. |
| 22:13 | | * McMartin nods |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | Or Mount Fate. |
| 22:16 | | syksleep_ [the@Nightstar-60339bc0.iinet.net.au] has joined #code |
| 22:18 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 22:18 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 22:18 | | syksleep [the@Nightstar-04b65676.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:19 | | mac [mac@490720.5E22A0.AF1C3D.734593] has joined #code |
| 22:22 | | Orthia [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.B089B9.1E14D1] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:23 | | mac [mac@490720.5E22A0.AF1C3D.734593] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:33 | | Orthia [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.B089B9.1E14D1] has joined #code |
| 22:33 | | mode/#code [+o Orthia] by ChanServ |
| 22:39 | <@celticminstrel> | I'd certainly like a version of this that had a sane UI: http://pqrs.org/macosx/keyremap4macbook/index.html.en |
| 22:41 | <@celticminstrel> | ...ooh, it appears to exist on github, so that might actually be a possible thing. |
| 22:52 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:03 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 23:05 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 23:05 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 23:11 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 23:12 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 23:35 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [G-Lined: Session limit exceeded] |
| 23:39 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 23:39 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| --- Log closed Sat Apr 13 00:00:10 2013 |