| --- Log opened Tue Apr 09 00:00:11 2013 |
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| 03:06 | <&McMartin> | Woo, 154 files modified |
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| 03:08 | <&McMartin> | ... this is a 1.3MB patch file |
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| 06:27 | | * Vornicus finally gets back around to poking at lua |
| 06:27 | <~Vornicus> | I suspect part of the problem is that I was expecting a somewhat higher level language |
| 06:28 | <&Derakon> | Given that it was originally written to be a scripting language that tied in nicely with C, not so much. |
| 06:28 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:28 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, uh, No. |
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| 06:33 | <~Vornicus> | okay. So, time to pretend I'm working in C instead of Python, really |
| 06:36 | <@Azash> | Hm.. This Mandriva security advisory reads like a pamphlet |
| 06:36 | <@Azash> | Rather than "CouchDB" or even "Apache CouchDB", they say "Apache CouchDB, a distributed, fault-tolerant and schema-free document-oriented database accessible via a RESTful HTTP/JSON API" |
| 06:37 | <@Azash> | And they do that twice with the exact same wording, in the middle of sentences.. |
| 06:38 | <~Vornicus> | weird. |
| 06:38 | <~Vornicus> | I always found the name of couchdb funny |
| 06:38 | <~Vornicus> | "Where's the document?" "Lost in the couchdb" |
| 06:39 | <@Azash> | Hah |
| 06:42 | < Syk> | Vornicus: now if it had a sharding module named 'cushions'... |
| 06:42 | <@Azash> | For some reason I started thinking of the unpredictable armchair in Garfield |
| 06:43 | < Syk> | sums up nosql pretty well Azash |
| 06:43 | <@Azash> | Pull level, get launched face first into the floor? |
| 06:44 | < Syk> | that could easily be a mongodb deployment instruction guide |
| 06:44 | <@Azash> | I've not tried any real NoSQL systems but I can't say I've heard good things about them |
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| 07:01 | <@Azash> | Hrm |
| 07:01 | <@Azash> | "Why can't all routers use the same routing protocol?" |
| 07:02 | <@Azash> | I legitimately don't know why not |
| 07:02 | <@Azash> | Does anyone here? |
| 07:02 | | * Vornicus secretly replaces Azash with a MaybeSQL system. |
| 07:03 | <@Azash> | Careful or Oracle will sue you for stealing their IP~ |
| 07:07 | < Syk> | Azash: i would probably say Not Invented Here |
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| 07:56 | < Xon> | <Azash> "Why can't all routers use the same routing protocol?" |
| 07:56 | < Xon> | <Azash> I legitimately don't know why not |
| 07:56 | < Xon> | They generally use a family of routing protocals depending on business needs, enviroment and connectivity |
| 07:57 | <@Azash> | Yeah I just wrote down "due to the inter- and intra-AS split" |
| 07:59 | < Xon> | yeah, it is even common to use two routing protocals at once to distribute routes. For example iBGP to push bulk routes around and OSPF to push connectivity between routers |
| 07:59 | < Xon> | where I work; we use; OSPF/eBGP/iBGP/iBGP-MP |
| 08:00 | < Xon> | (small ISP which spams MPLS networks everywhere due to selling MPLS to customers) |
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| 08:00 | <@Azash> | Mm |
| 08:01 | < Xon> | iBGP-MP pushes MPLS prefixes/communities around, while iBGP pushes normal routes around |
| 08:03 | < Xon> | Azash, you played with MPLS stuff before? |
| 08:03 | <@Azash> | Nope |
| 08:04 | < Xon> | basicly, it is a label-based VPN |
| 08:06 | < Xon> | instead of switching/routing on IP address, it does it on an arbitary label. The protocal lets you stack MPLS nicely without messing with vlans |
| 08:06 | < Syk> | vlans are fun |
| 08:06 | < Syk> | and by fun |
| 08:06 | < Syk> | i mean i hate them |
| 08:06 | <~Vornicus> | there is so ridiculously much I don't know about networking. |
| 08:07 | < Xon> | Syk, heh |
| 08:07 | < Xon> | Azash, MPLS can be either layer 2 or layer 3 depending on configuration too =p |
| 08:08 | <@Azash> | Oh dear |
| 08:08 | <@Azash> | Vornicus: Same feeling |
| 08:08 | < Syk> | there's so much about networking that I just block out my ears and go LA LA LA REDIRECTING TO LAYER NO and then run away |
| 08:09 | < Syk> | once at work we had to hook some trunks up between 3 HP switches |
| 08:09 | < Xon> | Azash, IIRC we normally offer layer 3 MPLS (virtual private routed network wiki calls it) which is quite popular since you can basicly run it on any providers network to bridge crazy stuff like fiber/adsl/3g into a redundant link =p |
| 08:09 | < Syk> | the 2 identical ones worked great, easy as hell |
| 08:09 | <@Azash> | "Virtual Private Routed Network"? |
| 08:09 | < Syk> | the third, 2-year older HP? |
| 08:09 | <@Azash> | That sounds like overlays to me |
| 08:10 | < Syk> | we ended up replacing it with a $8000 switch with twice the ports because we spent 3 days on it and HP were like 'lol yeah we changed $everything" |
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| 08:10 | < Syk> | then there were phone vlan funs |
| 08:11 | < Xon> | Azash, basicly each end-point peers with the MPLS provider and then offers a private IP space to push data over, but routing happens on our hardware meaning they get out redudnant networking core |
| 08:11 | < Syk> | because we had phones that operated on vlan 7 |
| 08:11 | < Syk> | and were between thenetwork and the PC |
| 08:11 | <@Azash> | Right |
| 08:11 | < Xon> | voodoo is a /great/ way ot describe it |
| 08:11 | < Syk> | Xon: Is this like the private LAN thing Telstra offers? |
| 08:11 | < Syk> | uh |
| 08:11 | < Syk> | private WAN* |
| 08:11 | < Xon> | yeah |
| 08:11 | < Syk> | the external IP is at Telstra |
| 08:12 | < Syk> | and it routes with some shit |
| 08:12 | < Syk> | and data between offices is free, i think, that are on it |
| 08:12 | < Syk> | it cost a lot |
| 08:12 | < Xon> | basicly, you can have you entire customer base using 10/8 and the provider doesn't care about the IP space despite routing it |
| 08:12 | < Syk> | even more than 4/4MB symmetric BDSL |
| 08:12 | < Syk> | $1,600/mo govt pricing :< |
| 08:12 | < Xon> | until it hits the edge device and gets converted to real-IP space |
| 08:13 | < Syk> | best bit was when the exchange lost connection |
| 08:13 | < Syk> | cos fibre got burnt up or some shit |
| 08:13 | < Xon> | BDSL is expensive |
| 08:13 | < Syk> | our BDSL was the last thing to switch back on in town |
| 08:13 | < Xon> | lol |
| 08:13 | < Syk> | my home's business ADSL, my friend's consumer Bigpond and my other friends consumer Westnet were fixed as soon as the link back up |
| 08:13 | < Syk> | 3G as well |
| 08:13 | < Xon> | 10.0.0.0/8* (rather than 10/8) |
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| 08:14 | < Syk> | but the $1600 connection that's literally fucking fibre to the exchange? nope, not until 5am the next morning |
| 08:14 | < Xon> | lolol |
| 08:14 | < Syk> | I was ready to rip Telstra a fucking new one |
| 08:14 | < Syk> | we had people saying "why isn't our internet up?????" |
| 08:15 | < Syk> | (people were slightly panic-y as it was the day that pays are uploaded to the bank, too) |
| 08:15 | < Xon> | Syk, you sure that BDSL is fiber and not copper? |
| 08:15 | < Syk> | Xon: we were told it was fibre, I believe it may have been on the same fibre as our ISDN or some shit |
| 08:16 | < Syk> | the connection into the building was copper to a Telstra-supplied box |
| 08:16 | < Syk> | which then went into our Cis1841 |
| 08:16 | < Xon> | cos Telstra's "ethernet" service only becomes actual fibre once you hit the 3rd out of 4 options for it |
| 08:16 | < Syk> | maybe Telstra were pulling it out of their ass, they did that a lot |
| 08:16 | < Syk> | Xon: this was post-NBN Co, they're not laying any more copper |
| 08:17 | < Xon> | they still are =| |
| 08:17 | < Syk> | they still are, yes |
| 08:17 | < Syk> | but we weren't that important :3 |
| 08:17 | < Syk> | oh we had NBN to new houses in town |
| 08:17 | < Syk> | staff houses |
| 08:17 | < Syk> | it was a year late~ |
| 08:17 | < Syk> | just turned on... last week |
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| 08:18 | < Syk> | Telstra had one good thing: the support |
| 08:18 | < Syk> | then they 'improved' it |
| 08:18 | < Syk> | sent us a letter going on about how the amalgamation of their support desks will provide 'better service' |
| 08:19 | < Syk> | I'm sure you can guess what they actually did |
| 08:19 | < Xon> | hehe |
| 08:19 | < Xon> | still better than aapt wholesale support ;) |
| 08:19 | < Syk> | phone support? in India. ADSL technicians? in India |
| 08:19 | < Syk> | business support technicians? India again! |
| 08:20 | < Syk> | we got told that one of our jobs was being cancelled because we supplied a lot number rather than a street address |
| 08:20 | < Xon> | O_o |
| 08:20 | < Syk> | said parcel of land never has had a street address, and never will |
| 08:21 | < Syk> | because it's a) a school, b) surrounded by four different roads and c) has a lot number |
| 08:21 | < Syk> | we were told they wouldnt be able to find it |
| 08:21 | < Syk> | we said 'well, can we give directions then?' |
| 08:21 | < Syk> | nope, not allowed to give the visiting techs notes |
| 08:22 | < Xon> | one thing about Labour NBN once it gets up, it will make ordering fiber a shitload easier than waiting for Telstra engineering todo a site survay and take 2-5 months |
| 08:22 | < Xon> | once/if* |
| 08:22 | < Syk> | Xon: I have a feeling Liberals will come in next election |
| 08:22 | < Syk> | and the NBN that isnt rolled out is gonna get cut, most likely |
| 08:22 | < Syk> | Abbott has said that what has it will keep it, but everything else is FTTN with copper last leg |
| 08:22 | < Xon> | you seen the Libs "NBN" plan? |
| 08:23 | < Syk> | 35+ year copper in the ground with a useby of 30 years |
| 08:23 | < Syk> | that last leg is gonna be fuckin great |
| 08:23 | < Syk> | Xon: it honestly tears me, because I don't want to vote for either party |
| 08:23 | < Xon> | optimistically 3/4s of the price Labour has quoted over longer, lower minimum speeds, and require laying fibre anyway to replace the crappy copper later at higher cost |
| 08:24 | < Syk> | Libs will murder any social progressiveness that might happen and kill the NBN |
| 08:24 | < Xon> | it is kinda looking that way |
| 08:24 | < Syk> | but Labor are herpderp internet firewall and can't into budgets |
| 08:24 | < Xon> | but have to see what it is like a month before the election rather than ~5-6 months away |
| 08:25 | < Syk> | Xon: it's pretty easy to see already |
| 08:25 | < Syk> | see: WA elections |
| 08:25 | < Syk> | last election was a hung parliment, nationally |
| 08:25 | < Xon> | Syk, the two part polling isn't *that* much worse than the last federal election |
| 08:25 | < Xon> | (in the run up) |
| 08:26 | < Syk> | Labor had an 18% loss in votes, and no Lib candidate lost a seat, IIRC |
| 08:26 | < Syk> | it was bloody |
| 08:26 | < Syk> | then again |
| 08:26 | < Syk> | WA is very pissed at the mining tax |
| 08:26 | < Xon> | very |
| 08:27 | < Xon> | and WA Labor was doing an /amazingly/ shit job trying to sell themselves |
| 08:27 | < Xon> | and WA Libs hadn't fucked up thier 1st term that much |
| 08:28 | < Syk> | WA Libs seemed to do pretty good |
| 08:28 | < Syk> | I dunno, I haven't heard anything that theyve screwed up too bad |
| 08:28 | < Syk> | my seat (Kimberley) was absolutely fucking enraging though |
| 08:28 | < Xon> | lol |
| 08:29 | < Syk> | 10% swing towards Green |
| 08:29 | < Syk> | mainly in Broome, because theyre getting all ragey about the natural gas hub |
| 08:29 | < Syk> | 90% of the Green votes were in suburbian Broome, which is a city |
| 08:30 | < Syk> | somehow the australian christian party candidate got 158 votes? |
| 08:31 | < Syk> | but eh |
| 08:31 | < Syk> | Xon: I think the reality is that Australia's always going to have shit internet, NBN or not |
| 08:32 | < Syk> | once domestic is fast, our international links are probably going to be so awful in comparison |
| 08:32 | < Xon> | a /massive/ amount of it comes down to price fixing at the domestic level |
| 08:32 | < Xon> | domestic transit basicly only drops pricing when international transit drops in pricing |
| 08:32 | < Syk> | then again, there is a 9.4Tbps or some insane shit like that cable coming online next year i think |
| 08:33 | < Syk> | I really wish that domestic data was cheaper |
| 08:33 | < Xon> | we have plenty of international bandwidth. It's just too expensive to actually *use it* |
| 08:33 | < Syk> | I really wish this town had a fucking dist hub too |
| 08:33 | < Syk> | all our data goes to Perth |
| 08:33 | < Syk> | pinging next door sends my packet on a 7,000km trip |
| 08:33 | < Xon> | not a problem for me since I'm in Perth =P |
| 08:34 | < Xon> | (as in the domestic transit to make use of international transit across the country gets pricy quickly) |
| 08:34 | < Syk> | 120ms ping to next door sucks |
| 08:34 | < Syk> | hard |
| 08:34 | < Xon> | hey, at least it isn't going to Sydney and back! |
| 08:34 | < Syk> | when I had Telstra Business, it was :( |
| 08:34 | < Syk> | well, Melbourne |
| 08:34 | < Syk> | our 4/4Mb connection went to Melbourne, apparently |
| 08:35 | < Syk> | so that's a 16,000km trip right there |
| 08:36 | < Xon> | =p |
| 08:40 | < Xon> | rofl, apparently the Libs FTTN scheme ignores access to Telstra's copper in it's costing |
| 08:41 | < Xon> | welp there goes any pretence that FTTN will be delivered cheaper than FTTH |
| 08:57 | < Syk> | heh |
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| 09:27 | <~Vornicus> | it is absolutely befuddling how much I depend on better data structures. |
| 09:46 | <~Vornicus> | I use tuples and full-on objects as set elements and dictionary keys and it isn't nearly that simple in lua |
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| 13:01 | <@Dog> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJcuQQ1eWWI |
| 13:15 | <@Dog> | "If the year is over 1900 and the human is in the lead, declare war on the human." |
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| 17:03 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as Maze |
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| 21:01 | <@gnolam> | Man, Markov generators are way too fun to play with. |
| 21:26 | | Tur|Transport is now known as Turaie |
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| 21:34 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | <Dracula> What is a product launch? A miserable pile of servers. |
| 21:34 | <&McMartin> | Enough talk. Have at it! |
| 22:16 | | Maze is now known as EvilDarkLord |
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| --- Log closed Wed Apr 10 00:00:26 2013 |