--- Log opened Thu Jan 31 00:00:25 2013 |
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00:01 | <~Vornicus> | recursion hasn't showed up yet either |
00:03 | < ErikMesoy> | Projec Euler's early problems mostly require iterators |
00:03 | < ErikMesoy> | "for x in..." and "for x less than..." |
00:07 | <~Vornicus> | I mean there are some of them I can do without loops |
00:07 | <~Vornicus> | #1, for instance. |
00:08 | <~Vornicus> | but doing so is a cool trick. |
00:15 | <~Vornicus> | so let's see. Right now we have "reading input", "turning strings into floats", "using str.format in simple situations", "creating a random integer", "using if" |
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00:30 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
00:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hrm. |
00:37 | <&McMartin> | Ugh |
00:38 | <&McMartin> | My madness is being thwarted |
00:38 | <&McMartin> | How dare it question my genius |
00:40 | <@Reiv> | ?? |
00:50 | <&McMartin> | Stuff Not Working |
00:57 | < JustBob> | Set it on fire. |
00:57 | | * McMartin is thinking more vivisection. |
01:03 | < JustBob> | That works too. |
01:06 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
01:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
01:56 | <@celticminstrel> | So, this thing is basically done, if I can drag myself away from tweaking it while I write up how things work. |
02:00 | <@celticminstrel> | Now I need to decide what to do with it. Should I put it on github so everyone can see all the stupid things I've done in it? :P |
02:03 | | * Azash looks through his old macro folders, finds https://haeroe.net/reaction/computer_science.png |
02:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | upload all of the things to github, forever |
02:04 | <@celticminstrel> | No! |
02:04 | <@Azash> | ToxicFrog: Maybe I can rename that readme.md and put it in every repo |
02:04 | <@celticminstrel> | This browser-based rogue-like, sure. But everything, no. |
02:05 | <@Azash> | celticminstrel: Let me know when it's in a playable state |
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02:06 | <@celticminstrel> | I think it's playable now. |
02:06 | <@celticminstrel> | Unless there are nasty bugs that I've missed. |
02:06 | <@celticminstrel> | Of course, you can't actually play it until I put it somewhere. |
02:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | 12222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222qqqqqqqqqqqqq655 |
02:09 | <&Derakon> | \o/ |
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02:10 | <@Azash> | Cat-like typing detected, aroogah, arooogah |
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02:58 | <&McMartin> | Vivisection: SUCCESS |
02:58 | <&McMartin> | WHEN THE HISTORY OF MY GLORY IS WRITTEN, YOUR PATHETIC ACCESS RESTRICTIONS WILL BE ONLY A FOOTNOTE TO MY MAGNIFICENCE |
03:10 | <&Derakon> | But I'm Ultraviolet-level~! |
03:15 | <&McMartin> | I'm still not entirely clear how it managed to crash Spy++. :/ |
03:22 | <@celticminstrel> | So that's... one in favour of github (though seemingly only on principle). One and a half, if you include me. |
03:24 | <@Azash> | Me too |
03:24 | <@Azash> | Which makes it 100% |
03:25 | <@Azash> | McMartin: Do you play SWTOR? |
03:28 | <&McMartin> | Nope |
03:28 | <@Azash> | 03:58 <&McMartin> WHEN THE HISTORY OF MY GLORY IS WRITTEN, YOUR PATHETIC ACCESS RESTRICTIONS WILL BE ONLY A FOOTNOTE TO MY MAGNIFICENCE |
03:28 | <@Azash> | What is this a reference to? |
03:28 | <&McMartin> | System Shock 2, I believe. |
03:28 | <@Azash> | Ah, I see |
03:29 | <@Azash> | One storyline villain for the Sith warrior in SWTOR says something similar |
03:29 | <&McMartin> | Was this villain by any chance a power-mad god-complex AI? |
03:29 | <@Azash> | s/AI/Sith lord/ |
03:30 | <@Azash> | Otherwise yes |
03:30 | <&McMartin> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHODAN |
03:31 | | * McMartin tsks as that article no longer has the OGG of the "Look at you, Hacker" speech. |
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03:35 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh. |
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03:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Voice of the Resistance probably does somewhere. |
03:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Azash: you should play System Shock. |
03:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Just saying. |
03:37 | <@Azash> | I should play a lot of things :I |
03:37 | <@Azash> | I have this old pic as checklist |
03:37 | <@Azash> | https://haeroe.net/reaction/FUCKING_GAMES.jpg |
03:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | No Strike Force Centauri, list invalidated~ |
03:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | That is actually a pretty nice checklist of good and/or significant games. |
03:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | That said, go play everything by Looking Glass. |
03:41 | <@Azash> | It's from when /v/ was pretty good |
03:41 | <@Azash> | I'll keep that in mind |
03:41 | <&McMartin> | Azash: I'd say to play World of Xeen instead of Isles of Terra, but~ |
03:42 | <@Azash> | My current goal is to learn MAA properly in Chivalry, then learn EU3 |
03:42 | <@Azash> | I might be able to take the next step in 2017 or so |
03:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | So play LGS games when you want a break from grand strategy games that take an eon to play~ |
03:46 | <@Azash> | Sounds like a plan |
03:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hmm, I've played rather a lot of games on that list. |
04:05 | <@Reiv> | man, seeing it like that |
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04:05 | <@Reiv> | I played a lot of the early stuff |
04:05 | <@Reiv> | Then Total Annihilation showed up and I don't play goddamn /any/ of that till like, the 2000s |
04:06 | <@Reiv> | (Suprised WoW and EvE aren't on it, at least as historical footnotes) |
04:07 | <@Azash> | Same, but I guess personal taste applies |
04:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | I've played a lot of those, but very few of them when they actually came out. |
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04:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | I am in a maze of twisty little higher-order functions, all different. |
04:50 | <&Derakon> | > TAIL-RECURSE |
05:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Random idea: a text adventure where you are exploring the structure of a program and really can be lost in a maze of higher-order functions, all differet. |
05:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | And > TAIL-RECURSE is a recognized verb. |
05:09 | <&Derakon> | So basically, Debugger: The IF. |
05:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | I haven't really given it any thought beyond that but I may want to visit that idea later. |
05:10 | <&Derakon> | Could be fun. |
05:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Perhapy. |
05:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Perhaps, even. |
05:10 | <&Derakon> | There'd be an Executor NPC which would occasionally pass through the function you're in and run it. |
05:12 | <&McMartin> | There is a sequence about this in Being Andrew Plotkin |
05:12 | | * Reiv muses. |
05:12 | <@Reiv> | SHODAN should never have a SHODAN 3. |
05:13 | <@Reiv> | How terribly would it be ruined for there to be a remake of SHODAN 1 & 2? |
05:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...you mean System Shock? |
05:14 | <~Vornicus> | I still want to see what the maps would look like if they redid Marathon on modern systems |
05:14 | <&Derakon> | Very straight~ |
05:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | A remake of System Shock would actually be pretty boss. We understand UI design better now, we can put more detail in the levels, but it's advanced enough as is that the gameplay and level design would need little adjustment. It would be a graphics and controls overhaul. |
05:16 | <&Derakon> | So basically Biomod + New Vision in DX1~ |
05:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | System Shock 2 I'd love to see done in the Dead Space engine, which did Horrifying Organic Things beautifully. |
05:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | Derakon: well, no, it would need an actually new engine |
05:17 | <@celticminstrel> | Gah, feature creep... :| |
05:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | That supports things like poly-based maps and animated 3d models |
05:17 | <&Derakon> | Oh, SS1 uses the billboard approach to enemies? |
05:18 | <~Vornicus> | SS1 a. billboards and b. doesn't restrict vertical viewing angle, so the billboards don't match the hit boxes relatively often. |
05:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | it was released in 1994 so, yeah, it kind of had to. |
05:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | It did have 3d model support, but those were mostly used for terrain, containers, and security cameras. |
05:19 | <~Vornicus> | DOOM and Marathon also billboard but both restrict vertical viewing angle, so it's considerably less of a problem. |
05:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | (and it didn't support animation beyond palette cycling of the textures and rotating the entire model) |
05:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Doom and Marathon couldn't have unrestricted viewing angles because they were 2.5d engines. |
05:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Anyways, yes, SS1 uses sprites for all enemies, weapons, projectiles, items, most clutter, grenades... |
05:20 | <~Vornicus> | Doom didn't let you look up/down at all. |
05:20 | <&Derakon> | As TF said, it wasn't true 3D. |
05:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | Derakon: well, you can fake it somewhat, as Marathon did |
05:21 | <~Vornicus> | Marathon used tilt-shift vertical look. |
05:21 | <&Derakon> | It only worked with specific viewing angles. |
05:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | But the further you look the worse the distortion gets. |
05:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | I think Marathon capped it at 30 degrees up or down? |
05:22 | <~Vornicus> | systemshock billboarded and iirc pegged the billboard at the bottom of the hitbox of the critter. This meant that to aim at it you had to actually aim at the feet, when looking down. |
05:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
05:25 | <&ToxicFrog> | Anyways. Point being, redesign the UI a bit, replace the sprites with 3d models, directly port the maps to a new engine, and kick up the texture resolution, and you're most of the way there. |
05:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | You would probably want to add more detail to the level geometry and do room-over-room natively rather than using floor models and suchlike, but you wouldn't need to completely rethink it. |
05:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | Honestly, I think the UI redesign would be the hardest part, since you're basically talking the set-union of SS2 and DX1 features there. |
05:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | You've got multiple configurable MFDs, an inventory containing items and software you may need to use, ten augs which can not only be toggled but configured and often have multiple operating modes, multiple weapons which are, again, configurable and have multiple fire modes and/or ammo types... |
05:32 | <~Vornicus> | The same is approximately true of Marathon, but sometimes I want to see what you could do with variable gravity and triggers and shit |
05:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | See, SS1 already used variable gravity and triggers and shit~ |
05:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | (Marathon does have the advantage of having a much simpler UI~) |
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06:30 | <@sshine> | couldn't you have a reference-based type system like Java where references are not allowed to be null by default, but there is an option-type to allow for it? |
06:31 | <@sshine> | the intent should be to avoid null-pointer exceptions at runtime without restricting the language significantly. |
06:32 | <~Vornicus> | sshine: there's a "Maybe" type in haskell |
06:32 | <~Vornicus> | I think it's called that anyway |
06:33 | <@sshine> | Vornicus, yes, that's the type I am thinking of. Standard ML calls it "optioN" |
06:33 | <@sshine> | option* |
06:34 | <@sshine> | I just thought: why not make it a type-error when people might de-reference a null-pointer, and why not make it syntactically desirable to have to check if possible null-pointers are actual null-pointers? |
06:36 | <@sshine> | a lot of the time when you have a reference to something, you really just want to assume it isn't a null-reference. and sometimes, like with lazy or recursive data structures, you really want to be able to have null-references, but you probably should perform a check. |
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06:38 | <@sshine> | it seems that someone did something like this using a Maybe class... http://blog.tmorris.net/posts/maybe-in-java/ |
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14:42 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay, today I will version-control this thing, but first I need a name for it... |
14:44 | < Syka> | explosive-pancakes |
14:44 | <@iospace> | what thing? |
14:45 | <@celticminstrel> | This rogue-like. |
14:46 | <@Azash> | I agree with Syka |
14:50 | <@iospace> | explosive-pancakes :3 |
15:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | It should have a name, but why do you need that to version-control it? |
15:09 | < ErikMesoy> | explosive-dungeons |
15:09 | < ErikMesoy> | dungeon-pancakes |
15:10 | <@celticminstrel> | Actually, I misspoke a little. I don't need a name to version-control it; I need a name to put it on github. |
15:11 | <@TheWatcher> | celticminstrel: annamarie~ |
15:12 | < ErikMesoy> | From Sunset To Midnight |
15:12 | <@celticminstrel> | TheWatcher: Is there some explanation behind that? |
15:12 | <@celticminstrel> | Because it seems really random. |
15:12 | < ErikMesoy> | The Last Will and Testament of Pope Claudius |
15:12 | < ErikMesoy> | celticminstrel: I think they are all random |
15:13 | <@TheWatcher> | celticminstrel: The 'real' name of Rogue. |
15:13 | <@TheWatcher> | (X-Men reference) |
15:13 | <@froztbyte> | spider pancake |
15:14 | <@froztbyte> | there are your next ~10 project names sorted |
15:15 | <@celticminstrel> | True, ErikMesoy, but that one seemed more random than the rest. |
15:16 | <@TheWatcher> | (Or you could call it 'solo' ¬¬) |
15:16 | <@celticminstrel> | Why shiftyeyes? |
15:17 | < ErikMesoy> | Return of the Generic Noun |
15:17 | < ErikMesoy> | (alternatively, Attack of the Generic Noun) |
15:17 | <@TheWatcher> | cm: it's just a suggestion with several levels of meaning, is all. |
15:25 | | * celticminstrel comes up with "Escape from _____" and tries making up a randomish word to fill the blank... Landre(a)d? |
15:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Not sure if I like that. |
15:32 | <@TheWatcher> | Escape from the Shadow of the Legacy of the Curse of Thingummybob! |
15:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Heh. |
15:46 | <@froztbyte> | oh man |
15:46 | <@froztbyte> | Syka++ |
15:47 | < Syka> | wut |
15:49 | <@froztbyte> | the post |
15:49 | <@froztbyte> | specifically <blink> |
15:49 | | * froztbyte can link here for the benefit of other people |
15:49 | < Syka> | https://thoughtstreams.io/hawkowl/why-html-sucks-and-theres-nothing-you-or-anyon e-el/ |
15:49 | < Syka> | this thing |
15:50 | <@froztbyte> | more particularly, '99~'08 according to Syka: https://thoughtstreams.io/hawkowl/why-html-sucks-and-theres-nothing-you-or-anyon e-el/#card-1146 |
15:50 | < Syka> | froztbyte: i added two more cards |
15:51 | <@celticminstrel> | Maybe Maldread would be better... |
15:52 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: hmm |
15:52 | <@froztbyte> | that should have the ability to pitch up at any time |
15:52 | | * froztbyte sends a tweet |
15:52 | < Syka> | pitch up? |
15:52 | | * TheWatcher eyes that |
15:53 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: like, ajax-style magic hax |
15:53 | <@froztbyte> | cards just render once you publish them |
15:53 | < Syka> | ahh |
15:53 | < Syka> | hmm yeah it should |
15:53 | < Syka> | i should probably get a twitter |
15:53 | < Syka> | all the cool kids have a twitter |
15:53 | <@froztbyte> | https://twitter.com/froztbyte/status/297009618218012672 |
15:54 | <@TheWatcher> | Really, browsers simply can't display a page long enough to enumerate all the ways in which html/css/http and especially html5 suck >.> |
15:54 | <@celticminstrel> | I keep thinking about getting Twitter but never manage to talk myself into it. |
15:55 | < Syka> | heh |
15:56 | <@TheWatcher> | I have a twitter account! It even has tweets in it... the ones I made while testing the twitter posting code for a work project >.> |
15:56 | | * Kaura eyes up |
15:56 | | * Kaura eyes TW |
15:57 | < Kaura> | ...liiink? |
15:57 | <@celticminstrel> | Orrr I could combine the two to get Malandread, which somehow sounds even better. |
15:57 | <@celticminstrel> | So yay, I have a name somehow. |
15:57 | <@TheWatcher> | Kaura: what, to my twitter? |
15:58 | < Kaura> | Yes. :D |
15:59 | < Kaura> | Oh, I am reminded. Need py3.3 on this computer too. |
15:59 | | * froztbyte spots a wild Kaura |
15:59 | | * TheWatcher eyes Kaura |
15:59 | <@froztbyte> | Kaura: oh you poor soul |
15:59 | <@froztbyte> | how'd that happen? |
15:59 | < Kaura> | Vorn dragged me back in. >_> |
16:00 | <@froztbyte> | to py3.3? |
16:00 | < Kaura> | As it turns out, I haven't totally forgotten everything! Though I was tripped up when trying to run a simple Hello World, given the changes between ver 2 and 3. |
16:00 | <@froztbyte> | don't bother with 3 :( |
16:00 | <@TheWatcher> | Whyfor use 4? |
16:00 | <@TheWatcher> | *3 |
16:00 | <@froztbyte> | py3 doesn't exist, anyway!~ |
16:00 | <@TheWatcher> | Indeed. |
16:01 | < Kaura> | 's it that bad? I wasn't aware. |
16:01 | <@froztbyte> | there are...some issues |
16:01 | <@froztbyte> | dumb decisions and whatnot |
16:01 | <@froztbyte> | but that aside |
16:01 | <@froztbyte> | pretty much all the code that matters anywhere is still py2 |
16:01 | <@froztbyte> | so if you're going to use py3 as a newbie, you're going right out for pain |
16:02 | <@froztbyte> | and the differences from py2 to py3 are of non-trivial effect in many of their usecases |
16:02 | < Kaura> | Hrn. Well. I suppose I might as well go back to ver 2 then. |
16:02 | <@TheWatcher> | Would be wise. |
16:03 | <@froztbyte> | glyph wrote a decent list of things connected with the recent SB3 beta |
16:03 | <@froztbyte> | sec |
16:03 | <@froztbyte> | https://twitter.com/glyph/status/296840803798642688 |
16:09 | | Syka is now known as syksleep |
16:22 | | Thalass is now known as Thalasleep |
16:24 | <@celticminstrel> | I just made an sftp batch script to upload this. :D http://celmin.pwcsite.com/malandread/ |
16:25 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay, now I need to do that homework that's due today. And probably eat something, too. |
16:49 | | ErikMesoy [Erik@A08927.B4421D.FE7332.A86588] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving.] |
16:55 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh, it's also on github: https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/malandread |
17:21 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
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18:25 | | * Derakon pokes at optimizing the linearizator. |
18:26 | <&Derakon> | ...I love my job, being able to un-ironically say things like that. |
18:26 | <&Derakon> | (Though it should probably be "linearizer", but screw that~) |
18:50 | <@celticminstrel> | Argh, I can't seem to figure out how to get Firefox to use an XSL stylesheet... |
18:52 | <@celticminstrel> | Everything I find says the issue is usually either an incorrect xmlnd:xsl, or an incorrect mime-type. |
18:52 | <@celticminstrel> | ^xmlns |
18:53 | <@celticminstrel> | But I have the correct xmlns:xsl, and surely mime-type is irrelevant for local files (ie file:// urls). |
18:57 | <@celticminstrel> | Anyone have any other ideas? |
19:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Firefox seems ignore it and just show the textual data from the file, which is a bit odd because when the stylesheet declaration is removed it shows a document tree. |
19:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Chrome ignores it and shows a document tree. |
19:33 | <@celticminstrel> | So does Safari. |
19:35 | <@celticminstrel> | Ooh, Opera shows an error message. |
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19:36 | <@celticminstrel> | I was missing a quote. Now Opera and Safari do the same as Firefox, and Chrome just shows a blank page. |
19:42 | <@celticminstrel> | Now I've changed something else and Safari says "error on line 3 at column 1: Document is empty" while Opera says "Error: invalid XML output: unexpected text (non-whitespace text outside root element)", neither of which seem to make sense in context. |
19:43 | <@celticminstrel> | Safari's doesn't even give enough info to know what it's talking about. Is it the XML file? The XSL stylesheet? Something else? |
19:54 | <@celticminstrel> | Why won't this work! :( |
19:55 | <@celticminstrel> | Hm. Opera works if I remove the xsl: prefix. |
19:55 | <@celticminstrel> | This makes Chrome and Safari just show a blank page, and Firefox gives a generic error. |
19:57 | <@celticminstrel> | That makes me thing Opera doesn't support namespaces properly... |
19:57 | <@celticminstrel> | ^think |
20:06 | | * Derakon ponders. |
20:06 | <&Derakon> | Say I have a sequence of numbers, e.g. 0, 5, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 20. |
20:07 | <&Derakon> | I want to make the spacing between them even, e.g. 0, 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, 15, 17.5. |
20:07 | <&Derakon> | Then use them to generate numbers in the same region (i.e. any floating-point number in 0-20). |
20:08 | <&Derakon> | And then reverse the process on those numbers so that e.g. 2.5 maps to 5, 5 maps to 10, 7.5 to 11, etc. |
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20:16 | <&Derakon> | I guess the way to look at it is that I have a function that maps index to number: (0, 0), (1, 5), (2, 10), (3, 11), etc. Do a linear fit on that function. Yeah, that should work. |
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20:28 | <&Derakon> | ...dur, I can just work with the index directly. |
20:33 | <@celticminstrel> | Aha, I might have figured it out. I didn't realize I needed everything to be inside an xsl:template tag. |
20:33 | <&McMartin> | 10:24 <&Derakon> (Though it should probably be "linearizer", but screw that~) |
20:33 | <&McMartin> | TROGDOR THE CONFIGURATOR |
20:34 | | * McMartin is in fact still bitter that "configurator" appears to be standard instead of "configurer" |
20:34 | <&McMartin> | CONFIGURATE |
20:34 | <&McMartin> | CONFIGURATE |
20:34 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't think I've ever used either one... |
20:35 | <&McMartin> | Ha ha ha |
20:35 | <&McMartin> | [markov-chains] McMartin says (to Markov), "Trogdor the Configurator" |
20:35 | <&McMartin> | [markov-chains] Markov says (to McMartin), "Trogdor nutrition Science techniques end up treating indigestible cellulose and sugar" |
20:35 | <&McMartin> | [markov-chains] McMartin says (to Markov), "Burninating the calories" |
20:35 | <&McMartin> | [markov-chains] Markov says (to McMartin), "A planet is a heavenly body which said "calories per serving: 140 (in california: 170)"" |
20:36 | <&McMartin> | Markov is not a purely markovian chatbot but he is suitably surreal |
20:36 | <&McMartin> | Also, TROGDOR NUTRITION SCIENCE TECHNIQUES |
20:38 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
21:08 | <@celticminstrel> | I think github broke something, because on the repository front page it says the commit has no author information, but when you click on it it clearly says the author is me. |
21:17 | <@Azash> | McMartin: Aw man, I prefer configurizer |
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22:34 | <@celticminstrel> | XML Schemas are absolutely insane. |
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23:54 | <@RobinStamer> | celticminstrel: http://github-status.com/ doesn't look like there were issues |
23:55 | <@Namegduf> | There seems to be some broken language detection. |
23:56 | <@RobinStamer> | reported+* |
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 01 00:00:40 2013 |