| --- Log opened Fri Oct 26 00:00:15 2012 |
| 00:00 | < gnolam> | While agree with that last sentence, you're making a lot of assumptions of what a game entails. |
| 00:00 | < gnolam> | ... oh, he left. |
| 00:00 | < gnolam> | Also, +I |
| 00:01 | <@AnnoDomini> | At the moment, I want a functioning saving/loading mechanism that works locally. |
| 00:01 | <~Vornicus> | And when you do it's proably going to be close enough to an existing binary format that you can Just Use THat. |
| 00:01 | <@AnnoDomini> | If/when the game gets somewhere, I can change that module to something more robust. |
| 00:01 | <~Vornicus> | for agame like civ, I found this awesome trick once. |
| 00:05 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes? |
| 00:05 | < syksleep> | i need to play civ v some more |
| 00:05 | <~Vornicus> | you can have a 'multipart csv' by having blank lines between segments. BUIld your thingy for the first segment, put in a check for a blank line that breaks. http://pastebin.com/T12VKVr3 |
| 00:07 | <@AnnoDomini> | Ah, this is python. |
| 00:07 | <~Vornicus> | Then your saver is a csv.writer; have it do out your map, then put a blank line, then data about (say) factions, then a blank line, then data about units, then a blank line, then... |
| 00:08 | < syksleep> | so not only is the format not in-file documented, people can't name a soldier "Bletchley, Duke of York"? ;) |
| 00:09 | | syksleep is now known as Syk |
| 00:09 | <~Vornicus> | I'm still not sure whether in-file documentation is that great an idea. |
| 00:10 | < Syk> | the benefit of more key-pair style saves (like saving it as json or something) is that it can also be inter-version compatible |
| 00:10 | < Syk> | you'd just have to read in an older file and fudge the new values and it'd be fine |
| 00:11 | <~Vornicus> | mmmnh, point |
| 00:14 | <~Vornicus> | I've always hated that sort of thing for Obviously Tabular Data though, in both one and two dimensions of Obviously Tabular. |
| 00:18 | <~Vornicus> | could just do zips with titled CSVs I guess |
| 00:19 | < Syk> | or |
| 00:19 | < Syk> | orrrr |
| 00:19 | < Syk> | CSVs in JSON |
| 00:19 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah no. |
| 00:20 | < Syk> | Web 2.0 Enterprise Certified(TM) |
| 00:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Syk: any decent CSV reader/writer will automatically escape things for you :P |
| 00:21 | | * Syk manually compiles her CSVs becaus she's masochistic like that |
| 00:27 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has joined #code |
| 00:27 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 00:35 | <~Vornicus> | gneh. I don't know what you'd do for additional flags etc though. that starts to feel nontabular |
| 01:00 | < gnolam> | JSON, gzipped, base64-encoded and embedded in 72-column-limited comments. |
| 01:00 | < gnolam> | What do I win?~ |
| 01:01 | | * McMartin consults the flowchart |
| 01:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | A mouth full of angry spiders. |
| 01:01 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:01 | | * McMartin dragon-punches gnolam into orbit. |
| 01:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hold still. |
| 01:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...dammit. |
| 01:02 | < gnolam> | This was seriously the least evil way to do it. |
| 01:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | Now I have to go into orbit after him, and do you know how tedious it is getting the spiders into those little pressure suits? |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | Fill a pressure suit with spiders. |
| 01:05 | < gnolam> | (The entire project could already be dumped to JSON and the rest was needed to get it through the Most Legacy Software Of All intact.) |
| 01:07 | <~Vornicus> | you had to put it through ed? |
| 01:08 | < gnolam> | (It needed to be embedded in the output files because interpreting the output required information about most of the input. And you couldn't really rely on a user loading both the correct project file and output file(s), for several reasons (including legacy, not having full control of the output filenames, legacy, multiple runs with the same data and legacy)) |
| 01:08 | < gnolam> | Vornicus: more legacy than that, actually. |
| 01:12 | <~Vornicus> | ...punch cards? |
| 01:12 | <~Vornicus> | ...which is not software |
| 01:13 | < gnolam> | Each line in the input files one creates is referred to as a "card" because - you guessed it - in previous iterations they actually were punch cards. |
| 01:16 | <&Derakon> | And here I thought I had it bad when the software I had to maintain was running Python 2.3 and was written by biologists~ |
| 01:16 | < Syk> | owo |
| 01:16 | < Syk> | guys |
| 01:16 | < Syk> | is the private sector worth getting into |
| 01:16 | | * Syk so far has been one of those public sector IT techs |
| 01:17 | <&Derakon> | Legacy is everywhere, frankly. |
| 01:17 | < Syk> | in the pub sector roo |
| 01:17 | < Syk> | too |
| 01:17 | < Syk> | in WA, where I live |
| 01:17 | <&Derakon> | Every software developer wants to start from scratch; practically no software developer gets to. |
| 01:17 | < Syk> | most LGs run a software suite called SynergySoft |
| 01:17 | < Syk> | by a company called ITVision |
| 01:17 | < Syk> | that is honestly what it is calle |
| 01:17 | < Syk> | d |
| 01:17 | < Syk> | up until this year, it was VB6 |
| 01:18 | < Syk> | now I think it's .NET 1, or something |
| 01:18 | <&Derakon> | (I note that I've spent the last three months or so rewriting one of our programs from scratch...) |
| 01:18 | < Syk> | uninstalling any version in 8.x borked office's COM components so bad that no application could use office automation until the computer was redone from scratch |
| 01:18 | <&Derakon> | (It's nearing completion and the new code is less than half the size of the old code) |
| 01:18 | < Syk> | as the 'fix' only worked half the time |
| 01:19 | < Syk> | it runs on IBM UniVerse. |
| 01:19 | < Syk> | We had to pay $26,000 to get ITVision to install a SQL connector that dumps it into MSSQL |
| 01:19 | < Syk> | and the best bit? |
| 01:19 | < Syk> | UniVerse has multi-valued cells. |
| 01:20 | < Syk> | so what was ONE table in UniVerse, is now TEN in MSSQL |
| 01:20 | < Syk> | the Names & Addresses table is called "A" |
| 01:20 | < Syk> | the 'name' field is called "NAME_DO_NOT_USE" |
| 01:20 | <&Derakon> | Ahh, legacy naming conventions. |
| 01:21 | < Syk> | it's a cacophony of fucked up ideas and retarded bugs |
| 01:21 | < Syk> | last year there was a bug that let ANYONE approve purchase orders |
| 01:21 | <&Derakon> | When I started at my current job, there were IIRC five versions of a particular file, all claiming to be the real one. |
| 01:21 | < Syk> | my supervisor proved it by making a $999,999 purchase order and 'approving' it in the PLAY database |
| 01:21 | < Syk> | he had a purchasing limit of $2k at the time |
| 01:22 | < gnolam> | (In recognizable form and some kind of compatibility, the program dates back to the '60s. But that version was a rewrite of code that was a rewrite of code... etc back to the /MANIAC/.) |
| 01:22 | <~Vornicus> | gneh, multivalued cells |
| 01:22 | < Syk> | the installer for it doesn't upgrade the package |
| 01:22 | < Syk> | it INSTALLS OVER THE TOP |
| 01:22 | < gnolam> | (There's a reason the documentation includes a paper by von Neumann and Ulam...) |
| 01:22 | < Syk> | leaving the OLD INSTALLER INTACT |
| 01:22 | < Syk> | they didn't tell us this as the Add Remove Programs only shows the one |
| 01:23 | < Syk> | but they wrote a tool that showed it |
| 01:23 | < Syk> | we had to uninstall it about six times on some machines |
| 01:23 | < Syk> | and "it errors and quits halfway through on version 9.2.54 is a documented bug, it can be ignored" |
| 01:23 | < Syk> | it's " |
| 01:23 | < Syk> | it's "fully 64bit compatible" |
| 01:24 | < Syk> | ...yet installs and looks for files under both the x86 and regular program files directories |
| 01:24 | < Syk> | ...and sometimes it installs it in the /wrong one/ |
| 01:24 | < Syk> | oh and the best bit? |
| 01:25 | < Syk> | it stores the user's username and password in plaintext in RAM |
| 01:25 | <&ToxicFrog> | Sure sounds like IT. |
| 01:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | Based on my association with IT professionals on both sides of the fence, no, private sector IT is not significantly better, and the few IT jobs that won't make you want to drink heavily can be found in both public and private. |
| 01:27 | < Syk> | the application was also written by accountants |
| 01:27 | < Syk> | so the financial module's calculations are ALWAYS correct |
| 01:28 | < Syk> | ToxicFrog: murgh |
| 01:28 | < Syk> | I really wish I could just work at some startup or something |
| 01:28 | < Syk> | and just like, do things |
| 01:28 | < Syk> | I don |
| 01:28 | <&Derakon> | The problem with startups is they have no time to do it properly. |
| 01:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | The holy grail for itfolk seems to be companies that are just leaving the startup phase |
| 01:28 | <&Derakon> | Everything has to be made to work as quickly as possible, and if that means taking shortcuts then your code will be spaghetti. |
| 01:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | When it's large enough that there is an actual push for IT staff and getting things done right, and small enough that you can actually get everything in shape and do it right from day one |
| 01:29 | < Syk> | I don't want to work in State govt, having chewed out shitty outsourced IT and getting annoyed at the employed-by-state IT who are lower levelled than the fucking outsourcers |
| 01:29 | < Syk> | and the bigger local governments have all very beaurocratic IT |
| 01:30 | < Syk> | bleh |
| 01:31 | < Syk> | I sort of am like "I want somewhere like where I'm working now, just without the retarded corporate culture, stupid-ass management and shoddy location" |
| 01:31 | < Syk> | the first will be resolved with the resolution of the second |
| 01:31 | < Syk> | yet the second has 1 1/2 years left on their contract and I can't wait that long :/ |
| 01:32 | | Throne [chatzilla@Nightstar-d3d12691.range86-139.btcentralplus.com] has joined #code |
| 01:32 | | Throne [chatzilla@Nightstar-d3d12691.range86-139.btcentralplus.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.1/20121010144125]] |
| 01:35 | < Syk> | oh well |
| 01:35 | < Syk> | maybe I might go apply at Google or something, and then frame the rejection letter |
| 01:35 | < Syk> | it'll be more exciting |
| 01:38 | < Syk> | ToxicFrog: 8:37am, if my time command doesn't work again :P |
| 01:40 | < Syk> | oh hey it works now |
| 01:44 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-b9c27e79.as43234.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 01:56 | < Syk> | huh i could actually go for this google job |
| 01:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | I highly recommend Google |
| 01:58 | <@Reiv> | No shit~ |
| 01:58 | | * Reiv would have gone for Google. If we had a Google. |
| 01:58 | < Syk> | the problem with me is that I have no qualifications outside of a handful of MS + Sophos things and four years work experience |
| 01:59 | < Syk> | the other problem is that I'm a mediocre programmer and a slightly-mediocre sysadmin |
| 02:00 | < Syk> | I also have the 'age' problem working against me, because nobody takes me frigging seriously :| |
| 02:03 | < Syk> | oh well! no harm trying, is there? |
| 02:57 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 02:57 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has joined #code |
| 02:57 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 03:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | Syk: nope! Go for it. |
| 03:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | Even if you don't get the job, if you make it to the in-person interviews, those are fun as hell |
| 03:07 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 03:12 | < Syk> | ToxicFrog: I highly doubt I would |
| 03:12 | | * Syk lives in the middle of nowhere :( |
| 03:37 | | Moltare [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 03:40 | | Moltare [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has joined #code |
| 04:26 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 04:27 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-3ba4108e.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 04:27 | | mode/#code [+o Vash] by ChanServ |
| 05:27 | | * Azash wonders how to interpret Windows 7 MemDiagRawData |
| 05:29 | <~Vornicus> | If that's not a guru meditation function, I don't know what is. |
| 05:31 | <@Azash> | Well, I ran W7's own memory test, and it supposedly gives you the results when you next log in |
| 05:31 | <@Azash> | However, it didn't, so I had to go fish in the event viewer until I found the results, which are in an xml file, the only meaningful part of which seems to be a "MemDiagRawData" tag that wraps an around 200-character string of hexadecimal |
| 05:40 | < Syk> | owo |
| 05:41 | < Syk> | Azash: download memtest86? |
| 05:41 | <@Azash> | Yeah, on it already |
| 05:41 | <@Azash> | Looking for flash drives right now~ |
| 06:34 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:40 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk |
| 07:00 | | Syloq_Home [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 07:24 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 07:25 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has joined #code |
| 07:25 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 07:44 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:45 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-3ba4108e.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: I lovecraft Vorn!] |
| 08:48 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 08:53 | < Syk> | i got invited to a meeting called "office Relocation Working Party" |
| 08:53 | < Syk> | with no content in the actual body |
| 08:53 | < Syk> | what surprises will they spring on me I wonder |
| 08:58 | <&McMartin> | heh |
| 08:58 | | * McMartin found something useful in Game Programming Gems 3, is kind of surprised |
| 08:58 | <&McMartin> | That one is from the awkward era of that series~ |
| 08:58 | <@Tamber> | Syk: "...but this is the car-park." "Yup. Here's your box. Enjoy!" |
| 09:19 | <@froztbyte> | <Syk> I also have the 'age' problem working against me, because nobody takes me frigging seriously :| |
| 09:19 | <@froztbyte> | what age problem is that? |
| 09:21 | <@Azash> | He cannot yet match the beard of the elder wizards |
| 09:22 | <@Tamber> | s/^He/She/ |
| 09:39 | <@froztbyte> | no anchoring required, it's the only capital match!~ |
| 09:39 | <@froztbyte> | but that's not a huge problem |
| 09:39 | <@froztbyte> | or at least wasn't for me |
| 09:40 | <@Tamber> | I prefer to be on the safe side~ :p |
| 09:43 | <@Azash> | Why not watch something like (^|\s)[Hh]e($|\s) ? |
| 09:43 | <@Azash> | match* |
| 09:45 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 09:45 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 09:48 | <@Tamber> | Because I'm lazy. |
| 09:50 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: no need |
| 09:56 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 10:09 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 10:09 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 10:26 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-9eb3f555.as43234.net] has joined #code |
| 10:35 | < Syk> | froztbyte: I'm 18 |
| 10:36 | < Syk> | froztbyte: which is a problem because nobody takes me seriously |
| 10:36 | < Syk> | werk is like hey syka if you want to work longer than your four weeks, you can |
| 10:37 | < Syk> | i'm like lol maybe |
| 10:37 | < Syk> | anyway home time |
| 10:39 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 10:39 | <@froztbyte> | Syk: just do some hardcore stuff, build up rep |
| 10:41 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 10:51 | | * Azash covers his face with a hand |
| 10:51 | <@Azash> | We're really messing this project up |
| 10:51 | < Syk> | froztbyte: define 'hardcore stuff' :P |
| 10:51 | <@Azash> | We're completely out of our element and haven't gotten anything productive done in three weeks now |
| 10:52 | <@froztbyte> | Syk: anything people think you're too young to do |
| 10:52 | <@froztbyte> | Syk: take people's expectations, and crap on 'em |
| 10:52 | <@Azash> | We're supposed to have a client meeting on Monday to present nada, then an emergency meeting with the TA and course admin after that.. I feel like we'll be carried out feet first |
| 10:55 | < Syk> | froztbyte: yeah... not entirely sure what to do though >v< |
| 10:56 | <@froztbyte> | anything |
| 10:56 | <@froztbyte> | pick a direction, do it |
| 10:58 | < Syk> | hum |
| 11:07 | < RichyB> | Dazzle people. |
| 11:09 | <@froztbyte> | yeah basically |
| 11:10 | <@froztbyte> | anything that makes someone do a doubletake is good |
| 11:11 | <@AnnoDomini> | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/634706093/dice-rings/?ref=kicktraq |
| 11:11 | <@AnnoDomini> | Whoops, mischan. |
| 11:20 | <@froztbyte> | nice, though |
| 11:21 | | himi-cat [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 11:21 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 11:52 | | himi-cat [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 12:06 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 12:06 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 12:10 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yay, rivers done! |
| 13:21 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 13:22 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 13:22 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 14:15 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 14:17 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 14:19 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 14:31 | < celticminstrel> | Why is it that when I select an area, go to Language, and check "Do not check spelling or grammar", Word as often as not completely ignores it, even to the point of the box not being checked if I immediately go there again? |
| 14:48 | <@rms> | Flaming piece of shit craped out of a marketing company is full of fail and aids. News at 11. |
| 14:52 | <@rms> | Seriously though, windows forgets settings too. Not surprised to hear their other shot fails to solve what must be the most epic of problems |
| 14:52 | < Syk> | today i had to fix a bug |
| 14:52 | < Syk> | not directly MS |
| 14:53 | < Syk> | but chrome modified a value in the .html association |
| 14:53 | < Syk> | meaning that when it was switched back to IE by group policy |
| 14:53 | < celticminstrel> | Heh. |
| 14:53 | < Syk> | outlook couldn't open any links :|||| |
| 14:54 | < celticminstrel> | More about Word: somehow, it seems that nearly every single supposed grammar error it marks is in fact correct and it's suggesting that I change it to be wrong. |
| 14:55 | < gnolam> | Wrong language selected? |
| 14:55 | < gnolam> | (Also: still better than OpenOffice.) |
| 14:55 | < celticminstrel> | No, the suggestion is still English. |
| 14:55 | < celticminstrel> | I can't imagine that being solely a problem in Word though; I think I must've messed something up somewhere... |
| 14:55 | < celticminstrel> | Somehow... |
| 14:55 | < celticminstrel> | In particular, I seem to remember the grammar checker being useful in the past. |
| 14:55 | < celticminstrel> | (Though that might've been an earlier version of Word, but still.) |
| 14:55 | < celticminstrel> | It's also not following my grammar settings. |
| 14:56 | < celticminstrel> | (eg it complains about passive voice even though I disabled that in preferences.) |
| 14:56 | < celticminstrel> | Maybe something wrong in the specific document, or something... |
| 14:58 | < RichyB> | Eh |
| 14:58 | < RichyB> | Checking the grammar of English text requires that you be able to *parse* English text. |
| 14:58 | < celticminstrel> | I agree with gnolam relative to the last time I checked. |
| 14:58 | < RichyB> | ? is basically an unsolved problem. |
| 14:58 | < RichyB> | All automated grammar checkers are, currently, futile efforts. |
| 14:59 | < celticminstrel> | Since at that time, OpenOffice (or NeoOffice) didn't have reviewing tools. |
| 15:00 | < celticminstrel> | I dunno... English text has a definite syntax to it, so theoretically it should be parsable... it's full of ambiguities though, maybe that's the hard part. |
| 15:03 | < celticminstrel> | It's not like you can see a particular word and say "Oh that's a noun". |
| 15:07 | <@Namegduf> | Unfortunately English doesn't really have a well-defined syntax. :( |
| 15:07 | < celticminstrel> | Sure it does. |
| 15:07 | <@Namegduf> | Nope. |
| 15:07 | <@Namegduf> | Consider one-word sentences alone. |
| 15:07 | <@Namegduf> | You have basically an arbitrary number and their meaning and semantics are highly contextual. |
| 15:08 | | Syloq_Home [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 15:08 | < celticminstrel> | I'm not sure I'd classify those as sentences. |
| 15:08 | <@Namegduf> | They are considered valid English sentences, and going for longer sentences doesn't make things much better. |
| 15:09 | <@Namegduf> | There's patterns and regularities but they aren't enough to make a single well-defined syntax. |
| 15:10 | <@Namegduf> | And then there's the fact that the semantic meaning of a sentence often leans on a whole bunch of contextual factors independent of the meaning of the words. |
| 15:11 | <@Namegduf> | You can't parse human communication without understanding what "When I get around to it." means- which requires a whole complex model of the person and what they might mean by that. |
| 15:12 | <@Namegduf> | Human language processing is *really hard*. |
| 15:13 | < celticminstrel> | You don't need to understand what "When I get around to it" means in order to parse it. |
| 15:13 | <@Namegduf> | What does "parse it" mean? |
| 15:13 | <@Namegduf> | Parsing something usually involves extracting some sort of manipulatable form from which meaning can be extracted. |
| 15:13 | < celticminstrel> | Determining the function of the words, like subject, verb, object, etc. |
| 15:14 | < celticminstrel> | You don't need to know the exact meaning of the words to decide whether it's correct syntax. |
| 15:14 | < celticminstrel> | Well, more or less. |
| 15:15 | < celticminstrel> | Ellipsis complicates things, like in your quoted example. |
| 15:15 | < celticminstrel> | Fragments, basically. |
| 15:15 | <@Namegduf> | Fragments are used pretty heavily. |
| 15:15 | <@Namegduf> | YOu just used one then. |
| 15:15 | <@Namegduf> | "Fragments, basically." |
| 15:15 | <@Namegduf> | Also "Well, more or less." |
| 15:15 | < celticminstrel> | Still, it's parsable if you ignore the "when", and from there, the function of the "when" is easily deduced. |
| 15:16 | <@Namegduf> | That doesn't... even have a noun or verb in it. |
| 15:16 | < celticminstrel> | I'm aware they're much used. |
| 15:16 | <@Namegduf> | That one isn't even a fragment, actually. |
| 15:16 | < celticminstrel> | How is it not a fragment? |
| 15:16 | <@Namegduf> | There's no rest of that sentence. |
| 15:16 | <@Namegduf> | It's just an English sentence which doesn't fit into that model. |
| 15:16 | <@Namegduf> | There's no elided parts. |
| 15:17 | < celticminstrel> | Well, [that's] more or less [true]. |
| 15:17 | <@Namegduf> | Except that "Well, more or less." can also refer to numerical approximation. |
| 15:18 | < celticminstrel> | Fair enough, so it's contextual. |
| 15:18 | < celticminstrel> | Still, even though fragments are common, there are plenty of full or nearly-full sentences that should be parsable. |
| 15:19 | < celticminstrel> | (Nearly-full sentences being relative clauses, basically.) |
| 15:19 | <@Namegduf> | Sure- except slang does weird stuff and English steals grammatical forms now and then too. |
| 15:19 | | * celticminstrel shrugs. |
| 15:19 | < celticminstrel> | Even parsing a subset is worth something, isn't it? |
| 15:19 | <@AnnoDomini> | Can I has cheezburger? |
| 15:19 | < celticminstrel> | AnnoDomini: That one's a standard sentence. |
| 15:19 | < celticminstrel> | Provided that you're not parsing for tense. |
| 15:20 | <@Namegduf> | Tense is one of the things the heuristics used to parse for |
| 15:20 | < celticminstrel> | Huh? |
| 15:20 | <@Namegduf> | MS Word's grammar checker. |
| 15:20 | <@Namegduf> | Pretty sure it parsed tense. |
| 15:20 | <@Namegduf> | Proscriptivism is pretty much debunked as a model- English is a living language and dictionaries aim to describe it. And there's a lot of it which doesn't follow any particular grammar. |
| 15:20 | <@Namegduf> | You can parse subsets, make grammars out of the regularities which have them. |
| 15:21 | < celticminstrel> | What I meant is, in the sentence AnnoDomini posted, it's extremely easy to figure out the function of each of the four words. |
| 15:21 | <@Namegduf> | What's intuitively obvious is a very bad guide for what is machine parsable. |
| 15:21 | < celticminstrel> | Even though "has" is not a past participle, it's still a verb. |
| 15:22 | <@Namegduf> | Because your brain is loosely a pattern matching probablistic thing |
| 15:22 | <@Namegduf> | Not an algorithmic parser |
| 15:22 | < celticminstrel> | Heh. |
| 15:22 | <@Namegduf> | I implemented the Porter stemming algorithm a while ago. |
| 15:23 | < celticminstrel> | Oh? What's this? |
| 15:23 | <@Namegduf> | A stemming algorithm is an algorithm to reduce English words to a single base form, regardless of their modified ending. |
| 15:23 | < celticminstrel> | Sounds difficult. |
| 15:23 | <@Namegduf> | So "running" "run", "runs" should all end up the same form. |
| 15:24 | < celticminstrel> | Ran too? |
| 15:24 | <@Namegduf> | Probably not! |
| 15:24 | < celticminstrel> | Okay. |
| 15:24 | <@Namegduf> | There's no general rules to get it right, you see. |
| 15:24 | <@Namegduf> | It's driven by lists of known word endings and a complex set of rules to manipulate the word in various stages. |
| 15:24 | <@Namegduf> | And exception lists. |
| 15:25 | < celticminstrel> | There are a ton of exceptions. I think there might even be exceptions to some of the exceptions. |
| 15:45 | | Moltare [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:59 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 17:48 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:00 | | RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 18:13 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 18:18 | | Moltare [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has joined #code |
| 20:25 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 20:32 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-3ba4108e.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 20:33 | | mode/#code [+o Vash] by ChanServ |
| 20:53 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client exited] |
| 20:53 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 20:55 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 21:58 | | iospace [Alexandria@Nightstar-e67f9d08.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:40 | <&McMartin> | And, in "Windows 8 is, indeed, a Windows 7 reskin" news: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/gentlemen-start-your-bench es-measuring-windows-8s-performance/ |
| 22:57 | | Attilla_ [Obsolete@Nightstar-acad2e79.as43234.net] has joined #code |
| 22:58 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-9eb3f555.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:58 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| --- Log closed Sat Oct 27 00:00:30 2012 |