| --- Log opened Sat Sep 22 00:00:23 2012 |
| 00:15 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[t-2] |
| 00:21 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:21 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh god. |
| 00:21 | < ToxicFrog> | Google is asking me what my workstation name should be. |
| 00:22 | <~Vornicus> | I am confident that most of your first guesses will be taken... |
| 00:26 | < ToxicFrog> | I've also run out of Marathon-based names~ |
| 00:49 | <~Vornicus> | You've even used s'boath? |
| 00:49 | <~Vornicus> | or however it's spelled? |
| 00:54 | < ToxicFrog> | It has like five different spellings depending on context |
| 00:54 | < ToxicFrog> | But I've been using ship and AI names |
| 00:54 | < ToxicFrog> | Anyways |
| 00:54 | < ToxicFrog> | I have decided that for work machines I want to go back to Latin anyways |
| 01:02 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:03 | <&Derakon> | So wait, you're officially joining the Rainbow Collective? |
| 01:08 | < ToxicFrog> | ...is that what the kids are calling it now? |
| 01:12 | <&Derakon> | I just made it up. |
| 01:13 | <&Derakon> | But Google will be the first company to make having its employees be in a hive mind be a good thing, just watch~ |
| 01:16 | <@Tamber> | They'll just wave the "Don't be Evil" flag about a bit; that coupled with "but at least we're not Apple", and everything'll be fine. :p |
| 01:17 | <&Derakon> | That flag has an asterisk these days. |
| 01:17 | <&Derakon> | And in fine print it says "* overtly". |
| 01:20 | < simon__> | I read a comment online that a tango step is a monoid. can anyone with dancing skills tell me how associativity and identity works for tango steps? |
| 01:24 | < ToxicFrog> | Derakon: "don't be evil" and "don't do evil" are two different things, and I think Google is doing pretty well at the former even if they slip on the latter from time to time. |
| 01:24 | < ToxicFrog> | Also, my previous long-term job involved writing firmware for devices that can be used to silently censor, rewrite, and intercept arbitrary network traffic, so~ |
| 01:28 | < ToxicFrog> | Also, considering the google hivemind jokes (which are alive and well inside Google, too) and google's reputation for LGBTQ friendliness, "the rainbow collective" may be a pretty good name for them~ |
| 01:31 | < simon__> | ToxicFrog, are you a member of the rainbow collective, or do you use corporate queerness to justify massive surveillance technologies? ;-) |
| 01:31 | <&Derakon> | I called it that mostly for the logo's color scheme, but yeah. |
| 01:32 | < simon__> | Derakon, I didn't even think of Google's logo... at the Copenhagen gay parade, IBM's logo lent itself quite well to rainbow colors. |
| 01:33 | < simon__> | still, I'm skeptical at how companies buy good will for showing up at these parades. I consider it something employees enjoy doing so it makes them feel welcome and appreciated at their companies. |
| 01:34 | < ToxicFrog> | I can't parse that. |
| 01:34 | < simon__> | the last one? |
| 01:34 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 01:36 | < ToxicFrog> | (Also, I was referring not to any parade participations or whatever but to the internal culture) |
| 01:36 | < simon__> | so, larger companies buy into parades as advertisement and their gay employees usually team up at the event. I think it is a nice experience for the employees even though it's a marketing scheme. |
| 01:36 | < simon__> | ah! |
| 01:36 | < simon__> | I've never worked in any particularly big software company, so I don't know what LGBTQ friendliness means at work. |
| 01:37 | < simon__> | so I assume you got the job at Google. congrats! :) |
| 01:37 | < ToxicFrog> | As a practical matter, it means you can be openly gay/bi/trans/poly/whatever at work and no-one will raise an eyebrow. Don't need to be constantly watching you words, or getting constantly shat on if you don't. |
| 01:38 | < simon__> | ah |
| 01:38 | < simon__> | I suppose it's a perk automatically granted for hiring intelligent people. |
| 01:38 | < simon__> | s/for/when/ |
| 01:38 | < ToxicFrog> | And yes, I did |
| 01:38 | < simon__> | what are your Latin machine names? |
| 01:39 | < ToxicFrog> | Still working on that. Artifex is definitely one, though. |
| 01:39 | < simon__> | I name my machines after either literary or pantheistic monster-gods |
| 01:39 | < gnolam> | So. Speaking of jobs. |
| 01:40 | < gnolam> | Had a meeting yesterday at the place I've been moonlighting the last couple of years, about the current project. |
| 01:40 | < gnolam> | After the external contractor had left, my bosses closed the door and looked me in the eyes and told me they had to talk to /me/. |
| 01:40 | < gnolam> | Naturally, I went "oh shit oh shit oh shit what have I done". Also, "... guess this is the point where they tell me I'm no longer needed in this project". |
| 01:41 | < gnolam> | Instead, they went "So... your thesis is coming up, isn't it?" |
| 01:41 | < simon__> | gnolam, are you actively working on it, or making plans for working on it? |
| 01:41 | < gnolam> | The latter. |
| 01:43 | < gnolam> | They explicitly offered me a further development of this project, which we're demoing in November, as a thesis project. |
| 01:46 | < gnolam> | With stuff like "if you need an actual employment during that period, it could probably be arranged..." |
| 01:46 | < gnolam> | Also: they dropped some hints that I should negotiate a better salary. o_O |
| 01:46 | < gnolam> | I'm getting the feeling that they want me to work there. :) |
| 01:47 | < simon__> | yeah :) |
| 01:49 | < ToxicFrog> | It does sound like that, yeah |
| 01:50 | < simon__> | I was told that once, after the company I worked for had just fired a friend of mine. |
| 01:51 | < simon__> | I was young and his salary was twice as mine. so I quit and started studying CS instead. |
| 02:02 | < gnolam> | Bad news is that I have no idea how to negotiate salaries. |
| 02:15 | | * Vornicus pokes at python, gets 11 lines of code that produces for him the probability of having gotten two of every item from the Wall of Flesh in Terraria. |
| 02:15 | <~Vornicus> | (after n battles) |
| 02:16 | <~Vornicus> | (turns out the median time to completion is 23 battles.) |
| 02:19 | <@Alek> | also, I've never played games like Soup to Nuts. but this week, one day on the way home, I decided to see if I could do it. |
| 02:19 | <@Alek> | Result: yeah. 10 words, 9 steps. >_> |
| 02:20 | <@Alek> | took me like 5 minutes to figure out the words and then optimize, removing a few steps. |
| 02:20 | <@Alek> | I'd say I'm out of shape, linguistically. <_< |
| 02:21 | <@Alek> | gotta mention, this was all in the brain. nothing written down. |
| 02:26 | < ToxicFrog> | "soup to nuts"? |
| 02:26 | <~Vornicus> | Soup Sous Sots Bots Buts Nuts. |
| 02:26 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh. |
| 02:27 | | * Alek headdesks. |
| 02:27 | <~Vornicus> | 5 steps, done in my head. I could probably write code for it, but that's what I got. |
| 02:27 | <@Alek> | wait. Sous is a foreign word. >_> |
| 02:28 | < ToxicFrog> | Pretty sure 5 steps is optimal |
| 02:28 | <~Vornicus> | It's in the scrabble dictionary. |
| 02:29 | <~Vornicus> | --not in the form I expected, but it's in there. |
| 02:29 | < ToxicFrog> | 4 is the theoretical best, but there's no move from Soup that swaps in a letter from Nuts that leaves a valid word. |
| 02:29 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh wait. Except that's exactly what Soup -> Sous does. |
| 02:29 | < ToxicFrog> | I am clearly not awake |
| 02:32 | <~Vornicus> | 4 is the theoretical best, let us see. sous sotp suup noup; sots suus sutp nous notp nuup; suts nots nuus nutp |
| 02:32 | <~Vornicus> | It's the other way around, actually. Departing "nuts" gets us no words. |
| 02:33 | <~Vornicus> | (bold words are in the scrabble dictionary) |
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| 06:16 | <@Alek> | VV: http://notalwaysromantic.com/turning-up-the-volume/23408 |
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| 20:14 | | * rms wants to know if VirtualBox on Windows can grab the Windows key without issue (IE: Windows using it to bring up the menu) |
| 20:37 | < simon_> | rms, I would suspect that it can so long as VirtualBox has focus. |
| 20:37 | < rms> | Thanks |
| 20:38 | < rms> | (Asking because I didn't want to waste 3 hours install Windows to see if that setup would be viable) |
| 20:38 | < simon_> | you could always install Windows inside VirtualBox ;-) |
| 20:48 | < rms> | I don't have a prefered Linux distro anymore |
| 20:49 | < rms> | So Linux in Windows is actually better for now |
| 20:49 | < rms> | As much as I dislike the idea |
| 20:57 | < simon_> | oh |
| 20:57 | < simon_> | I assumed you ran some Linux now. |
| 20:57 | < rms> | I do |
| 20:58 | < rms> | But every distro I've tried does shit that makes it a deal-breaker |
| 20:58 | < simon_> | I agree |
| 21:00 | < rms> | Closest I got were Arch when it had pacman 3.x and Fedora. |
| 21:00 | < simon_> | I've tried Ubuntu, Debian and Arch all in the last two months. |
| 21:00 | < rms> | Ubuntu and Debian like to fuck with packages and do stupid shit in the install scripts (AIDE and postfix are respective examples) |
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| 21:01 | < simon_> | Ubuntu is bloated, Debian lacks some essentials for laptops, and Arch just requires me to maintain software which Ubuntu doesn't. |
| 21:01 | < rms> | Arch has been completely destroying their repository and package managed. |
| 21:01 | < rms> | manager* |
| 21:01 | < simon_> | oh. |
| 21:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | I've been quite happy with SUSE for servers and Mint for desktops and laptops, personally. |
| 21:02 | < simon_> | I ran Arch a couple of years back and I must say it's good to be back. |
| 21:02 | < rms> | Arch has been my primary for ~5 years |
| 21:03 | < simon_> | there's a few quirks, like my online banking not working because the icedtea plugin being outdated even though it's the most recent one available. |
| 21:03 | < rms> | I'm trying to escape, but pacman was so good before, it makes every other package manager look like shit. |
| 21:03 | < rms> | Heh |
| 21:03 | < rms> | Common problem |
| 21:04 | < simon_> | we held a Linux workshop at my CS dept., and while we were installing texlive and wanted to install another app, I said the package manager is currently locked. she asked me why it doesn't just put the package on a queue. I wonder why... |
| 21:04 | < rms> | No real means to do that cleanly |
| 21:05 | < rms> | No-one sees a point in putting an IPC stack into a package manager. |
| 21:05 | < simon_> | IPC? |
| 21:05 | < rms> | The benefits are fairly small anyways |
| 21:05 | < simon_> | inter-procedure calls? |
| 21:05 | < rms> | Inter-Process Communication. |
| 21:05 | < simon_> | right |
| 21:06 | < simon_> | I know some of the Gentoo developers went and made Exherbo which was supposed to be an experimental Linux distro to redo the init scripts and the package manager... but I never heard from them again. |
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| 21:07 | < simon_> | I haven't experienced Arch messing up my packages yet, so I'm tempted to assume that pacman works fairly well. I don't like to forget to update, because I end up downloading hundreds and hundreds of megabytes for a few insignificant version number increases. |
| 21:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | The one thing I've been consistently unable to find is a decent RR desktop distro. |
| 21:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | SUSE has Tumbleweed, but I don't really like SUSE on the desktop. |
| 21:08 | < simon_> | RR? |
| 21:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | Rolling Release. |
| 21:09 | < simon_> | and a desktop distro is one that installs with a functioning desktop environment? |
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| 21:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | Nah, it's more subjective than that - just, one that I enjoy using as a desktop |
| 21:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | Wide package selection, minimal around-fucking needed to get stuff like fonts and different IMs working |
| 21:12 | < simon_> | Arch has a pretty decent selection with AUR, which is, unlike e.g. Ubuntu's PPA, actually used. |
| 21:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | Arch is not at all what I would call "minimal around-fucking" |
| 21:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is the do-everything-by-hand distro |
| 21:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | And while that can be fun, these days I'd rather spend my time gaming, coding, or working on my thesis than fine-tuning my OS. |
| 21:13 | < simon_> | I agree. :) I've run Ubuntu for three out of five years for that reason. |
| 21:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, I've been running Mint for ages, and I'm trying out Ubuntu 12.04 on the new laptop - it's much better than I remember |
| 21:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Neither are RR, though. |
| 21:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | There's a Debian-based RR Mint, LMDE, but it tends to explode with some regularity |
| 21:15 | < rms> | I've had an Arch install crap itself to the point of being unable to boot about 7 times a year since 2010. |
| 21:16 | < rms> | :/ |
| 21:16 | < rms> | Anti-fun times |
| 21:18 | < simon_> | rms, I think what I want from a package manager that inevitably messes up is that I can do rm -rf /usr/ports; portsnap fetch... I don't think many Linux distros are comfortable with simply replacing an old, failed package manager without some surgery in /etc, some in /var, and so on. |
| 21:19 | < simon_> | it'd be even neater with package managers that don't fail, but I'm not sure if the recipe even exists yet. |
| 21:19 | < rms> | Wow, 5 pet peeves in 2 minutes of running Windows |
| 21:19 | < rms> | That is a new record I think |
| 21:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | FWIW I have yet to have zypper crap out on me |
| 21:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | With the occasional exception where a third-party distro goes insane and trying to update with it enabled results in questions like "Package ____ requires ____, which is not available. Do you want to [a] downgrade ____, [b] ignore ____'s dependencies and possibly break it, or [c] uninstall the entire system?" |
| 21:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | But that's easily handled by not pressing c~ |
| 21:22 | < rms> | 1) sounds (bonus points: volume is cranked the fuck up) 2) Alerts on login (bonus: makes a sound) 3) STUPID DIPSHIT FUCKTARD WINDOWS DEVS (made a window that automatically fills the screen and undos any movement) 4) Can't see USB shit until forever after login 5) ugly ass theme |
| 21:23 | < rms> | 6) Unhelpful progress bar |
| 21:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | :windows: |
| 21:28 | < rms> | http://imgur.com/Rlo8q <-- #3; note: progressbar is a spinner (fills up quickly, disappears and then reappears empty to fill up again over 5 seconds) |
| 21:33 | < simon_> | I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't look for just one engineer who can do proper estimations of installation time. |
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| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | 13:13 <&ToxicFrog> Yeah, I've been running Mint for ages, and I'm trying out Ubuntu 12.04 on the new laptop - it's much better than I remember |
| 22:40 | <&McMartin> | This is new in 12.04; 11.10 was a disaster to the point of Alt-Tab occasionally forgetting that some of your windows existed |
| 23:26 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:28 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| --- Log closed Sun Sep 23 00:00:38 2012 |