| --- Log opened Sun Aug 19 00:00:29 2012 |
| 00:07 | | * Vornicus gets 14/12.5/15 cycles per carbon depending on which one he has in hand. |
| 00:38 | | * Vornicus could probably make it faster, but dang. |
| 00:55 | | * Vornicus tries to do too many things at once in this program. |
| 00:59 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 01:01 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:15 | | Orthia is now known as Reiver |
| 01:22 | | * McMartin offloads all of Carlsbad's dev work to Osmium. |
| 01:33 | | cpux|2 is now known as cpux |
| 01:36 | | * McMartin also gets back to work on Hex Inverter, Multiplatform Edition. |
| 01:46 | | Syloq_Home [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 01:49 | <&Derakon> | So, style question. |
| 01:49 | <&Derakon> | Is it better to import math and do math.ceil, or to just do int(foo + .5)? |
| 01:49 | <&McMartin> | math.ceil returns a double. |
| 01:50 | < rms> | Python? |
| 01:50 | <&Derakon> | As it happens, an int is desirable here. |
| 01:50 | <&Derakon> | rms: yes. |
| 01:50 | <~Vornicus> | Also that there is not equivalent to ceil |
| 01:50 | <&McMartin> | Also true! |
| 01:50 | <&McMartin> | It's equivalent to round. |
| 01:50 | <&Derakon> | Vorn: ah, fair point. |
| 01:50 | <~Vornicus> | ceil is -int(-foo) |
| 01:50 | <&Derakon> | ... |
| 01:50 | <&McMartin> | Is it? |
| 01:51 | < rms> | O.o |
| 01:51 | <~Vornicus> | It is not, I am wrong |
| 01:51 | <&McMartin> | I thought int rounded towards zero, not negative Infinity |
| 01:51 | <~Vornicus> | int truncates, I thought it floored |
| 01:51 | <&McMartin> | yeah |
| 01:51 | <&McMartin> | So, um |
| 01:51 | <&McMartin> | "No substitute for math.ceil if that's what you need" |
| 01:51 | <&Derakon> | I guess importing math.ceil would be the proper approach then, yeah. |
| 01:51 | < rms> | What's the difference between truncation and flooring? |
| 01:51 | <&Derakon> | Truncation removes the decimal portion. |
| 01:51 | <&McMartin> | floor is "round to negative infinity" |
| 01:51 | <&Derakon> | So negatives and positives are both pulled towards zero. |
| 01:51 | <&McMartin> | truncation is "round to zero" |
| 01:51 | | Syloq_Home [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:51 | <~Vornicus> | rms: flooring takes -0.8 to -1, truncation takes -0.8 to 0 |
| 01:51 | < rms> | RE: original question: I'd import math if it's small. |
| 01:51 | <&Derakon> | math is a standard module. |
| 01:52 | <&McMartin> | Also it's Python so nothing is small >_> |
| 01:52 | <&Derakon> | The only reason not to import it is to limit the dependencies a given module ha s. |
| 01:52 | <&Derakon> | Er, has. |
| 01:52 | | * McMartin sads at Java |
| 01:52 | <&McMartin> | The lack of delete() means that when I test AIs against one another I cannot have them fight for their very lives |
| 01:53 | <&McMartin> | This is the pettiest complaint against Java I have ever made |
| 01:53 | | * Derakon snerks. |
| 01:53 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, you can just vaguely forget about them and let them drift in limbo for awhile before the reaper collects their souls. |
| 01:53 | <&McMartin> | The C++ version of this was the Thunderdome. Two objects enter. One object leaves. |
| 01:55 | <&McMartin> | On the plus side, it looks like I've ported all of Hex Inverter's AIs to Java in a way that's compact enough that a phone can shrug it off. |
| 01:56 | <&Derakon> | Next step: put it on that Android-based game thing? |
| 01:56 | <&McMartin> | Actually, the plan here is to actually do all the work by hand. |
| 01:56 | <&McMartin> | The goal here was "learn the Android APIs", after all |
| 01:56 | <&Derakon> | Ahh. |
| 01:56 | <&McMartin> | But I think I may throw together a desktop version first just to do the UI design in a milieu I kind of know |
| 01:57 | <&McMartin> | Cons: That would be Swing |
| 01:57 | <&McMartin> | Pros: It would also be one JPanel and a JMenuBar, I'll live. |
| 02:07 | <&McMartin> | Oh right, also having to deal with resource packaging, ugh |
| 02:25 | <&McMartin> | All right, package/module organization question. |
| 02:26 | <&McMartin> | Should "core" classes (in this case, the AI and game referee classes) go into a "core" subpackage, or should they be in the package root? |
| 02:26 | <&McMartin> | More generally, should the package root be empty except for Main, if that |
| 02:26 | <&Derakon> | FWIW, the root directory for Pyrel currently contains pyrel.py, container.py, and userCommand.py. |
| 02:26 | <&McMartin> | (Since in Java I'm going to end up having different packages for each UI type, and those are each going to have their own Main) |
| 02:26 | <&Derakon> | Everything else is in directories. |
| 02:26 | <&Derakon> | And, uh, it's not entirely clear that two of those are in the right locations. >.> |
| 02:27 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, the mapping is a little weirder with Java vs. Python, because Java uses directories for what Python uses files for, more or less |
| 02:28 | <&Derakon> | Er? |
| 02:28 | <&Derakon> | It's been a long time since I worked in Java, I must confess. |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | When you say "import {name}" in Python, you're talking about a file. |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | When you say "import {name}" in Java, you are *usually* talking about a directory (though this is no longer a constant in this decadent age) |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | A java file corresponds to a single class. |
| 02:30 | <&McMartin> | Classes in the same module indicate this by being in the same directory. |
| 02:30 | <&McMartin> | IIRC, a python file corresponds to a single module, and modules in the same directory are submodules of the same larger module. |
| 02:36 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, usually a directory is called a "package" in that case. |
| 02:36 | <&Derakon> | So I have the mapgen package, which contains the generator and gameMap modules. |
| 02:36 | <&Derakon> | Of course there's no obvious way to tell when you're importing a package vs. a module; they behave basically identically. |
| 02:37 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 02:37 | <&McMartin> | I'm mainly wondering whether I should be putting the AI/Game/Board/etc classes in com.bumbershoot.hexinverter.core or just directly in com.bumbershoot.hexinverter. |
| 02:37 | <&McMartin> | Also pictured: why "import" isn't frowned on in Java development |
| 02:37 | <&Derakon> | Because the package path names get loooooong. |
| 02:38 | <&McMartin> | Quite |
| 02:38 | <&McMartin> | Most of that stuff is actually now handled by code generators in professional Java development (Both Eclipse and Netbeans have hotkeys for "please import every foreign class I use and list them by name at the top, individually, thanks") |
| 02:38 | <&Derakon> | How pleasant. |
| 02:39 | <&McMartin> | Also "automatically generate equals() and hashCode() methods for this class now that I've indicated which fields in it are semantically meaningful for equality" |
| 02:39 | <&McMartin> | The functional languages have kind of spoiled me here since I'm used to the language sensibly defining these things for me automatically |
| 02:39 | <&McMartin> | Or rather, "all custom datatypes can behave sensibly in the language's collections with no additional effort on my part" |
| 02:41 | <&McMartin> | Or right, that's why I was going to start with Swing. |
| 02:42 | <&McMartin> | Because I really don't want to have to deal with touchscreen jackassery until I can make the interface work right with mouse clicks. |
| 02:46 | <&McMartin> | I wonder how intrusive I can make Eclipse not be to my git repositories. |
| 02:46 | <&McMartin> | ls |
| 02:47 | <&McMartin> | oops |
| 03:19 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 03:52 | | Syloq_Home [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 04:18 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 04:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | =========zaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavc |
| 04:24 | <&Derakon> | \o/ |
| 04:26 | <~Vornicus> | \o/ |
| 04:26 | <&McMartin> | \o/ |
| 04:54 | | Syloq_Home [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 05:03 | | Syloq_Home [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 05:05 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|gaming |
| 05:32 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 05:58 | | * iospace snerks |
| 06:11 | | iospace is now known as iospacedout |
| 06:43 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-e8057de2.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: I lovecraft Vorn!] |
| 06:52 | | cpux [cpux@Nightstar-c5874a39.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 06:56 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:04 | | Tarinaky [tarinaky@Nightstar-dd7e4a05.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 07:04 | | Tarinaky [tarinaky@Nightstar-dd7e4a05.net] has joined #code |
| 07:06 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] |
| 10:10 | | Kindamoody|gaming is now known as Kindamoody |
| 10:25 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 11:00 | | Im_New_plz_help [Im_New_plz_@2D9871.5B923B.ED2406.B9E3D5] has joined #code |
| 11:00 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|lunch |
| 11:01 | | Im_New_plz_help [Im_New_plz_@2D9871.5B923B.ED2406.B9E3D5] has left #code [] |
| 12:21 | <&McMartin> | Oh hey, look at that |
| 12:21 | | * McMartin gets in-JAR resource bundling to work trivially cross-platform, in a SLAP IN THE FACE to about fifty stack-overflow articles. |
| 12:28 | | Kindamoody|lunch is now known as Kindamoody |
| 12:49 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 13:15 | < Moltare> | I love a good slap in the face |
| 13:15 | < Moltare> | It is, after all, my bread and butter to deliver them |
| 13:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I feel like I just missed a good conversation :P |
| 13:45 | < AnnoDomini> | Slapping? Perhaps related: http://nigoro.jp/game/rosecamellia/rosecamellia.php |
| 13:55 | < Rhamphoryncus> | http://nigoro.jp/game/rosecamellia/img/howto4.jpg |
| 15:14 | < Moltare> | Ram: OH, it's just that I'm in MMO development, so everything I ever produce is a slap in someone's face. |
| 15:50 | | iospacedout is now known as iospace |
| 16:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ahh heh |
| 16:42 | < iospace> | http://fatpita.net/?i=15813 |
| 16:42 | | * AnnoDomini lols. |
| 16:42 | < gnolam> | :D |
| 17:03 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 17:05 | <~Vornicus> | McM: woot |
| 17:30 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-e8057de2.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 17:31 | | mode/#code [+o Vash] by ChanServ |
| 18:21 | | Moltare [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:22 | | Moltare [Moltare@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has joined #code |
| 18:37 | | rms is now known as Vasi |
| 18:46 | <@Alek> | wuh. |
| 18:46 | <@Alek> | Mol is developing a MMO? |
| 18:46 | <@Alek> | cool. which one? >_> |
| 18:46 | < Moltare> | Runescape :P |
| 18:50 | <@Alek> | LOL |
| 18:50 | | * jerith has been trying not to go all fanboy in India. |
| 18:51 | <&jerith> | The Wikimedia guy I'm working with here was a Sierra Games developer for about a decade. |
| 18:51 | <&jerith> | He joined about the time of Kings Quest IV and left when they fell apart. |
| 18:59 | | cpux [cpux@Nightstar-c5874a39.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 19:37 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 19:50 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 19:52 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | That's...not a very long timespan >_> |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | Some might call it negative |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | When is the point being identified as "it all falling apart"? |
| 21:58 | | Vasi is now known as rms |
| 23:26 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| --- Log closed Mon Aug 20 00:00:44 2012 |