| --- Log opened Fri Aug 17 00:00:58 2012 |
| 00:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But the parts of the icosahedron I do have look good XD |
| 00:07 | <~Vornicus> | heh |
| 00:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | woot! Everywhere but the poles! And the pentagons are a tad buggered |
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| 00:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I wonder how C got its usage of static.. which is essentially a synonym for constant (but in a different context), clearly not how C uses it |
| 00:42 | <&McMartin> | It's like FORTRAN's old COMMON. |
| 00:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Then again, const in C/C++ isn't constant either :P |
| 00:42 | <&McMartin> | Closer than final. |
| 00:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | const in C++ just means "shallowly read-only handle" |
| 00:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I don't recall java's final semantics |
| 00:47 | <~Vornicus> | iirc in Java you may only call final methods and read stuff, on things that are marked final. |
| 00:53 | <~Vornicus> | But I may not. |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | No, it's that they can't. |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | You just described const. |
| 00:58 | | * Rhamphoryncus ponders extending some boolean functions to return no/yes/really-yes |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | What's the difference between "yes" and "really-yes"? |
| 01:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | They return true if a given coordinate is on the edge of one of the icosahedral faces. really-yes would mean you're in the gap between the faces |
| 01:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | My coordinate system is pretty close to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Icosahedron_flat.svg |
| 01:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | but left-right wraps |
| 01:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/537 |
| 01:09 | < Namegduf> | Is there an enum-equivalent? |
| 01:10 | < Namegduf> | If so, "No, Edge, Face" would be tidier than no, yes, really-yes |
| 01:11 | < Namegduf> | In some languages you could also rig "No" up to be false when converted to a boolean, but I think for this I think "autoconversions are unhelpful complexity, semantics are better visible". |
| 01:11 | < Namegduf> | So I'm not going to explicitly recommend that. |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | If this is C, enums are ints with names, so NO would be 0 and thus false. |
| 01:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | No, Edge, Face would be sane, yes |
| 01:12 | < Namegduf> | Yeah. |
| 01:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And relabelling like that makes it no longer stupid :) |
| 01:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Another option is to return an int for distance |
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| 01:51 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Oh lame. C++11 has strongly typed enums with their own namespace.. but there's no way to import them into your local namespace without listing them individually and C++ can't resolve potential name conflicts that'd create despite the strong typing |
| 02:21 | < celticminstrel> | Yup. |
| 02:23 | < celticminstrel> | Random note: I think final variables in Java work the same way as const in C/C++; it's just that Java has no equivalent of a const pointer in C++ (eg int*const). |
| 02:23 | < celticminstrel> | Well, not entirely random since it was in response to earlier stuff. |
| 02:23 | < rms> | Sounds almost like they don't want people using using |
| 02:24 | < celticminstrel> | I do wish you had an equivalent of Java's import static. |
| 02:25 | < celticminstrel> | Maybe in the next version. |
| 02:25 | < celticminstrel> | I dunno. |
| 02:25 | < rms> | import static? |
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| 09:19 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 10:20 | < Tarinaky> | Okay. I have a cookbook question. Something I'm having trouble spotting in my OpenGL books is what you do if you want some 2D element overlaid ontop of your rasterised 3D. |
| 10:20 | < Tarinaky> | Do you push the eye matrix and set up an Ortho projection and then draw your sprite? |
| 10:21 | < rms> | Draw a rectangle (ie: two traingles) and texture them with your 2D thing. |
| 10:21 | < rms> | Unless I'm misunderstanding |
| 10:21 | < Tarinaky> | rms: You're misunderstanding. That's a billboard. |
| 10:21 | < Tarinaky> | That I can do. |
| 10:21 | < Tarinaky> | But I want something like a UI element that is always a fixed distance from your 'eye'. |
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| 10:26 | < Tarinaky> | Unless I'm misunderstanding >.< |
| 10:27 | < Tarinaky> | Mind you, also trying to get my head around OpenGL 3 which I don't think has stacks any more. |
| 10:36 | < gnolam> | <Tarinaky> Do you push the eye matrix and set up an Ortho projection and then draw your sprite? |
| 10:36 | < gnolam> | s/eye/projection, but yes. |
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| 10:50 | <&McMartin> | And if there aren't stacks in the API, stacks are a trivially easy application of std::vector in C++ |
| 10:57 | | * TheWatcher vaguely stabs the specs for saying <ul> can not be empty |
| 10:58 | | * rms is guessing that's messing with a template engine? |
| 10:59 | < rms> | TIL: I'm running three different crond's, one of which treats % as newlines, which is why my backups of Postgres have been failing silently for /months/ |
| 11:02 | <@TheWatcher> | More the need for special cases in the templates and AJAX to handle empty lists. |
| 11:04 | | * TheWatcher hates such special cases, as it almays means at least one gets missed somehow |
| 11:06 | < rms> | Heh |
| 11:06 | | * rms uses XTemplate, so it'd just mean wrapping the <ul> with <tpl if="list.length > 0"> |
| 11:07 | <@TheWatcher> | yeah, then I need stuff in the ajax to detext whether the ul actually exists, create it if it doesn't, needs an extra div to contain the ul so that I have something to grab to add it to if needed... |
| 11:07 | <@TheWatcher> | *detect |
| 11:08 | < rms> | Ah, I'd just make the XTemplate redraw |
| 11:08 | < rms> | But yeah, that'd suck |
| 11:10 | <@TheWatcher> | It's a royal pain in the arse that could be very simply avoided if they had simply allowed ul and ol to be empty (which, I note, browsers /do/, and it works fine if I just ignore the spec, but I don't want to go down that road...) |
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| 11:27 | | * Tarinaky frowns. |
| 11:27 | < Tarinaky> | I bought an adapter to plug my old PS2 controller into my PC but it seems that the controller doesn't actually work any more. |
| 11:45 | <@TheWatcher> | Woe >.< |
| 11:46 | <@Alek> | and biscuits |
| 11:56 | <&McMartin> | > UNLOX DOOR |
| 11:56 | <&McMartin> | You collect the smoked salmon that covers the door. |
| 11:59 | <@TheWatcher> | Easier than removing the liquid oxygen from the door, certainly. |
| 12:09 | < iospace> | :P |
| 12:12 | <&McMartin> | Nord and Bert remains one of the strangest games ever |
| 12:13 | <&McMartin> | You transmute objects by referring to homonyms, in that sequence. |
| 12:13 | <&McMartin> | It was originally referred to as a door covered in locks |
| 12:13 | <&McMartin> | So you refer to them as lox and SPLORT SMOKED SALMON EVERYWHERE |
| 12:13 | < iospace> | :P |
| 12:13 | < iospace> | sounds fun |
| 12:13 | <&McMartin> | Likewise, there is the stationary in the office supplies section that cannot be moved until you refer to it as stationery. |
| 12:14 | <&McMartin> | It is quite possibly Infocom's weirdest work, but the Manor of Speaking was fundamentally broken |
| 12:14 | < iospace> | ... |
| 12:14 | < iospace> | oh i get it |
| 12:14 | | * iospace facepalms |
| 12:16 | < iospace> | is that an actual place though in the game or are you being witty? |
| 12:16 | <&McMartin> | It's one of the scenarios. |
| 12:16 | <&McMartin> | It's one that messes with the parser |
| 12:16 | <&McMartin> | And it's possible to get it in a state in which it will accept no commands at all |
| 12:16 | <&McMartin> | Including SAVE, RESTORE, and QUIT. |
| 12:17 | < iospace> | oO |
| 12:18 | <&McMartin> | The whole game is based on various kinds of wordplay. Some work better than others. |
| 12:18 | <&McMartin> | The Shopping Bizarre, where homonyms warp the world, is honestly the only one that truly still holds up. |
| 12:20 | <&McMartin> | Shake A Tower was kind of funny but all you did in it was close-read the text and get points when you found phrases that were funny if you spoonerized them. |
| 12:40 | < AnnoDomini> | Argh. For some reason, all links in my mail lead to Google's redirection. |
| 12:40 | < AnnoDomini> | How do I turn that off? It is making me unable to access certain links. |
| 12:41 | < AnnoDomini> | Because there are 404 errors through following the redirect. |
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| 14:03 | < froztbyte> | nice little low-effort crypto puzzle on http://asofterworld.com/ today |
| 14:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | http://i.imgur.com/Gd8noh.png |
| 14:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | New code is icosahedral, 12 vertices. Old started as dodecahedral, 20 vertices, then got upgraded to 32. The 32 looked pretty good |
| 14:40 | < Rhamphoryncus> | To get back the old I'd have to add new vertices to the center of each face, but it'd be much easier to add to the center of each edge |
| 14:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | However, my worst distortion is the center of each face.. |
| 14:41 | <@TheWatcher> | What're you using this for, anyway? Or is it just Experimentation? |
| 14:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I intend to make a transport tycoon clone |
| 14:42 | <@TheWatcher> | (Looks neat, though) |
| 14:42 | <@TheWatcher> | A /global/ TT clone? |
| 14:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yup, but using the whole globe might be optional |
| 14:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | My original intent was to be more flexible. Heh. |
| 14:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's almost flexible. With less stupid handling of edges/invalid sections you could take the net, add a surface normal (representing gravity) to each point (macrovertex), call it a mesh, boost the size, and then build to whatever shape you want |
| 14:54 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Meaning you could do a torus |
| 15:35 | <~Vornicus> | A torus is not that hard except that viewing it as a place would be a pain |
| 15:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | as a place? |
| 16:02 | <~Vornicus> | as a globa. |
| 16:02 | <~Vornicus> | As a large scale object, instead of zooming in. |
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| 16:04 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ah, well I meant that more as an example of something stupid |
| 16:05 | <~Vornicus> | (toroids are usually done through pure topology in video games; they make them so you can't see much of the world at a time, so they just use a square and some fiddling.) |
| 16:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | which lets them use a square, *massively* easier |
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| 17:27 | < iospace> | ugh i have to use Tcl |
| 17:27 | < iospace> | Dx |
| 17:27 | < iospace> | fuck Tcl |
| 17:43 | < froztbyte> | could be worse |
| 17:47 | <~Vornicus> | Actual torus would have all sorts of interesting problems, I'm not even sure how you'd do it, you'd need to find a nearly regular polyhedral representation. |
| 17:47 | <~Vornicus> | And then the camera work would be insane. |
| 17:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I don't understand what you mean |
| 17:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | My approach is cheesy: here's a mesh of triangles. Now cut some out and plaster them to your surface. Done |
| 17:53 | <~Vornicus> | The world would get in the way of seeing the world. |
| 17:53 | < Tarinaky> | Looking at OpenGL3... Is it actually C++ or is the Super Bible being a bit naff and mentioning lots of C++ stuff? |
| 17:54 | < Tarinaky> | (Super Bible 5 that is) |
| 17:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Vornicus: oh, you'd need careful application of your view frustrum, yeah |
| 17:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Possibly some cheating if you want the camera centered back in the opposing earth |
| 17:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | based on the poor behaviour I've seen in nearly every game I'd say it sounds easy but turns out to be hard |
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| 18:04 | < Tarinaky> | I was going to say: |
| 18:04 | < Tarinaky> | Startopia comes to mind as a game where it was obvious that the game map was toroidal. |
| 18:05 | < Tarinaky> | (It was set on a space station.) |
| 18:05 | < Tarinaky> | Although only the outer segment was actually used. |
| 18:22 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah, that's fairly easy |
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| 19:27 | < Tarinaky> | "Exercise 4-12. Adapt the ideas of Cthulhu() to write a recursive version of the Forbidden Song of Hali; that is, to unravel the fibres of reality and allow the icy liquid darkness of Carcosa to devour your mind." |
| 19:27 | < Tarinaky> | http://www.bobhobbs.com/files/kr_lovecraft.html |
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| --- Log closed Sat Aug 18 00:00:13 2012 |