| --- Log opened Mon Jul 09 00:00:49 2012 |
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| 06:08 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: clojure.string/split-lines is really surprising and not in a good way :/ |
| 06:08 | <&McMartin> | Boo =( |
| 06:08 | < ToxicFrog> | <ToxicFrog> ,(clojure.string/split-lines "\n") |
| 06:08 | < ToxicFrog> | <clojurebot> [] |
| 06:09 | < ToxicFrog> | <ToxicFrog> ,(clojure.string/split-lines "asdf\n\nfdsa") |
| 06:09 | < ToxicFrog> | <clojurebot> ["asdf" "" "fdsa"] |
| 06:09 | < ToxicFrog> | <ToxicFrog> ,(clojure.string/split-lines "asdf\n\n") |
| 06:09 | < ToxicFrog> | <clojurebot> ["asdf"] |
| 06:09 | <&McMartin> | That's... not surprising. |
| 06:09 | <&McMartin> | OK, that is. |
| 06:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, any number of trailing newlines are just ignored |
| 06:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Leading ones, however, are not! |
| 06:09 | < ToxicFrog> | <ToxicFrog> ,(clojure.string/split-lines "\n\nasdf") |
| 06:09 | < ToxicFrog> | <clojurebot> ["" "" "asdf"] |
| 06:10 | <&Derakon> | Hooray! |
| 06:10 | <&McMartin> | >>> "\n".split() |
| 06:10 | <&McMartin> | [] |
| 06:10 | <&McMartin> | >>> "asdf\n\nfdsa".split() |
| 06:10 | <&McMartin> | ['asdf', 'fdsa'] |
| 06:10 | <&McMartin> | >>> "asdf\n\n".split() |
| 06:10 | <&McMartin> | ['asdf'] |
| 06:10 | < ToxicFrog> | This does however explain why the line counter in my lexer was sometimes counting backwards |
| 06:10 | <&McMartin> | >>> "\n\nasdf".split() |
| 06:10 | <&McMartin> | ['asdf'] |
| 06:10 | <&Derakon> | Is that Python, McM? |
| 06:10 | <&McMartin> | >>> It is. |
| 06:10 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, I want all the lines, including ones that are the empty string |
| 06:11 | <&McMartin> | Python ignores fenceposts and split unmodified is "any amount of whitespace of any kind" |
| 06:12 | <~Vornicus> | try with .split('\n') |
| 06:12 | <&McMartin> | >>> "\n".split('\n') |
| 06:12 | <&McMartin> | ['', ''] |
| 06:13 | <&McMartin> | Perhaps not *quite* ideal, though it does meet the contract |
| 06:13 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh hey split is broken too |
| 06:13 | < ToxicFrog> | <ToxicFrog> ,(clojure.string/split "\nasdf\n" #"\n") |
| 06:13 | < ToxicFrog> | <clojurebot> ["" "asdf"] |
| 06:14 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: see, split "\n" => ["", ""] is exactly the behaviour I want |
| 06:14 | <&Derakon> | >>>"\nfoo\nbar\n".strip().split('\n') |
| 06:14 | < ToxicFrog> | I do not want, but would accept, [""] |
| 06:14 | <&Derakon> | ['foo', 'bar'] |
| 06:15 | < ToxicFrog> | But it's utter madness for "asdf\nasdf" to split into ["asdf" "asdf"], "\nasdf" to split into ["" "asdf"], and "asdf\n" to split into ["adsf"] |
| 06:16 | <&Derakon> | So apply clojure's strip() equivalent? |
| 06:16 | <&McMartin> | Well, no |
| 06:16 | <&McMartin> | What he *wants* is line numbering on the input here. |
| 06:16 | <&McMartin> | IIRC. |
| 06:19 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 06:19 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh, I see what's happening |
| 06:19 | < ToxicFrog> | (split) invokes Java's regex.split |
| 06:20 | < ToxicFrog> | re.split(s) -> re.split(s, 0) |
| 06:20 | < ToxicFrog> | "If n is non-positive then the pattern will be applied as many times as possible and the array can have any length. If n is zero then the pattern will be applied as many times as possible, the array can have any length, and trailing empty strings will be discarded." |
| 06:20 | <&Derakon> | So you can pass -1 then. |
| 06:20 | < ToxicFrog> | <ToxicFrog> ,(clojure.string/split "\nasdf\n" #"\n" -1) |
| 06:20 | < ToxicFrog> | <clojurebot> ["" "asdf" ""] |
| 06:20 | <&Derakon> | \o/ |
| 06:21 | < ToxicFrog> | Why in god's name would you make this the default |
| 06:23 | <&McMartin> | I wonder if it's forwarding to Java's libraries here or if this is another case of "LISP people don't believe in non-shitty libraries because everyone just assumes it's easy enough to reinvent the wheel" |
| 06:23 | <&McMartin> | (See also: http://www.lambdassociates.org/blog/bipolar.htm ) |
| 06:24 | < ToxicFrog> | It is in fact forwarding to Java's libaries |
| 06:24 | < ToxicFrog> | That text I quoted is from the Sun JRE documentation |
| 06:25 | <&McMartin> | Java Standard Lolbraries |
| 06:25 | < ToxicFrog> | I would have appreciated it if Clojure's binding did some cleanup on it, but this is 100% a Java bug |
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| 06:34 | < ToxicFrog> | O |
| 06:34 | < ToxicFrog> | k |
| 06:34 | < ToxicFrog> | Lexer working |
| 06:34 | < ToxicFrog> | slep now |
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| 06:41 | < Namegduf> | Slep well. |
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| 10:48 | | * TheWatcher eyes MooTools |
| 10:48 | <@TheWatcher> | WTF |
| 10:48 | <@TheWatcher> | Why am I suddenly getting Mysterious Errors?! |
| 11:00 | <@Tamber> | Someone used your cow as a sacrifice to the mysterious horrors of Perl? |
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| 11:01 | <@TheWatcher> | Hah |
| 11:03 | < gnolam> | Mad cow disease. |
| 11:06 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, it's certainly making me mad |
| 11:06 | <@TheWatcher> | This make /no sense/ |
| 11:10 | <@TheWatcher> | (which probably means it's something bloody obvious I'm missing) |
| 11:15 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
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| 11:15 | <@TheWatcher> | I download a new copy of mootools-more and it works, wtf |
| 11:15 | <@TheWatcher> | gah |
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| 14:21 | | * TheWatcher eyes his boss |
| 14:22 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: so, here's the lexer library: https://gist.github.com/3076537 |
| 14:22 | <@TheWatcher> | ... is she just doing it wrong, or is the Apple iOS developer kit really that hard to get hold of? |
| 14:22 | < ToxicFrog> | And here's what using it looks like: https://gist.github.com/3076539 |
| 14:22 | < ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: I wasn't aware you could get it without signing up as a developer and probably paying $5000 |
| 14:23 | <@TheWatcher> | She apparently managed to get it for 60 quid (so the $99/year) option. |
| 14:23 | <@TheWatcher> | Which just makes me O.o massively |
| 14:24 | < Namegduf> | It didn't look very hard when I last looked into it. |
| 14:24 | < Namegduf> | $99/yr signup option on their website. |
| 14:25 | <@TheWatcher> | Craziness. |
| 14:26 | < Namegduf> | Well, that's excluding that you MUST use OS X. |
| 14:26 | < Namegduf> | So if you're not currently doing so you have a good $1000 up front to buy Apple hardware to develop iOS apps. |
| 14:27 | < Namegduf> | If you are then that doesn't apply, though. |
| 14:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, she and the people likely to be using it are, I just boggle really... |
| 14:29 | < Namegduf> | Apple are not shy about using their users as product to sell to developers. |
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| 14:37 | < Ariii> | Hi! |
| 14:39 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 14:42 | < ToxicFrog> | Ariii: 'morning |
| 14:42 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: apple can get fucked; all I want is a decent cross compiler/packager for it :/ |
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| 15:35 | < ShellNinja> | http://i.imgur.com/v0eU3.png |
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| 17:07 | < iospace> | TWO MORE APPROVALS D: |
| 17:07 | < iospace> | then my test plan is approved :< |
| 17:11 | | * jerith approves. |
| 17:11 | | * Tamber also approves. |
| 17:12 | <&jerith> | iospace: There you go. Sorted. |
| 17:12 | < iospace> | unless your real names are Matt and Phill |
| 17:12 | < iospace> | :P |
| 17:12 | <&jerith> | I can find a Matt. He's one of our project partners and does formhub.org. |
| 17:13 | < iospace> | haha |
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| 21:26 | <&McMartin> | "Installing for upgrades: trousers" |
| 21:26 | <&McMartin> | TUX NEEDS PANTS |
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| 22:20 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: https://github.com/ToxicFrog/kessler/tree/kessler-clj/src/ca/ancilla/kessler |
| 22:21 | < ToxicFrog> | Also, stuff I never thought I would be typing: apt-cache search trousers |
| 22:21 | <&McMartin> | The lexer looks really good |
| 22:21 | <&McMartin> | Hee |
| 22:21 | <&McMartin> | Dear Linux: WHERE ARE MY PANTS |
| 22:21 | < ToxicFrog> | I though it looked kind of messy, myself |
| 22:22 | <&McMartin> | I refer mainly to the presented API~ |
| 22:22 | < ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 22:22 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, that I am quite happy with. |
| 22:22 | <&McMartin> | More seriously, most of my lexers have been character-by-character and don't give a nice API like that. |
| 22:24 | < ToxicFrog> | I could have (and, in fact, did in a pre-git version) done it that way, but I wanted something pretty. |
| 22:24 | < ToxicFrog> | And reusable. |
| 22:25 | < ToxicFrog> | lex-seq is lazy, too |
| 22:25 | <&McMartin> | \o/ |
| 22:27 | <&McMartin> | About the only thing I'd have done differently I don't think even really matters, which is that I'd kick the internal functions of "lexer" out to module level with defn- since they don't use any of the closure's state. |
| 22:28 | <&McMartin> | I suppose there's also "you're doing a kind of nasty variable shadowing thing there with 'lexicon'" |
| 22:29 | < ToxicFrog> | I'm already using defn- for everything except lexer and lex-seq |
| 22:30 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, it's the let clause in the function 'lexer' I'm complaining about here~ |
| 22:31 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh, you're saying that I should kick all of those letfns into module scope fns. |
| 22:31 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, probably. |
| 22:31 | < ToxicFrog> | They started out smaller. |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | You should also name either the parameter or the internal value something other than 'lexicon' |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | I mean, yeah, that's *legal*, but that's like (let [x (inc x)] ...) |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | Which is kind of ew |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | Since you have to count parens to see which x that x is. |
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| 22:35 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 22:37 | | * McMartin is pretty lax about variable shadowing, as a recent fight on ifMUD has just demonstrated, but this also seems to be an FP thing. |
| 22:37 | <&McMartin> | Mostly because lambdas should give no fucks about what their definer's parameters are |
| 22:37 | < ToxicFrog> | Unless they need to access them as upvalues, which has actually happened to me once~ |
| 22:38 | <&McMartin> | Well, yes, those are special |
| 22:38 | <&McMartin> | What I mean is, there are some pretty strong conventions for parameter names and they're likely to produce conflicts if you're being casual about it. |
| 22:38 | <&McMartin> | In particular, x, y, z are "I don't care what the type of this object is" and xs, ys, zs are collections of things you don't care about |
| 22:38 | <&McMartin> | f, g, h are functions |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | So when you're throwing some lambda at map there's no real reason to care if the definer has xs in it too |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | Any parameter important enough to be used as an upvalue should probably have a real name though~ |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | ... though really, "f" is a real name |
| 22:40 | < ToxicFrog> | Also, did you really get into a fight over variable shadowing on ifmud? |
| 22:42 | <&McMartin> | Yes, @recap #macdev all |
| 22:42 | <&McMartin> | Note that marc is the "real" FP person in that conversation, I just dabble |
| 22:49 | < ToxicFrog> | I really need to get a proper MUD client |
| 22:49 | | * ToxicFrog accidentally SIGINT'd telnet |
| 22:49 | < iospace> | ... |
| 22:49 | | * iospace golf claps |
| 22:50 | <&McMartin> | I rather like the UTF-8-patched tf. |
| 22:51 | < ToxicFrog> | lexer updated |
| 22:52 | <&McMartin> | Woo |
| 22:54 | < ToxicFrog> | "It turns everyone into Fonzie, or if you like swearing in your variable names, Clay Davis." |
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| 23:19 | <~Vornicus> | what |
| 23:22 | <&McMartin> | Your a because aaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy. |
| 23:22 | <&McMartin> | s/because/becomes/ |
| 23:23 | <~Vornicus> | Dare I ask. |
| 23:25 | <&McMartin> | This is what happens when you combine errors on variable-shadowing with lambdas. |
| 23:31 | < ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: from a discussion on IFMUD concerning variable shadowing that McM participated in. |
| 23:45 | <~Vornicus> | I, um. See. I guess. |
| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | I should probably get back into my OCaml project. |
| --- Log closed Tue Jul 10 00:00:04 2012 |