| --- Log opened Sun May 27 00:00:20 2012 |
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| 04:56 | <~Vornicus> | ...note to self, 1.5 million is 1500000, not 15000000. |
| 04:59 | <@rms> | That reminds me of when I worked helpdesk. |
| 05:00 | <@rms> | People would say numbers like "four hundred million kilobytes" (because Outlook always gave sizes in kilobytes) and I'd have to mentally translate that to things I could understand: MB and GB |
| 05:00 | <@rms> | Except I couldn't |
| 05:01 | <@rms> | Because I never needed to remember how big a million was. |
| 05:01 | <@rms> | So I'd have to ask them to read out each number, just so I could figgure out how much they were using of their mailbox. |
| 05:01 | <@rms> | :/ |
| 05:09 | <~Vornicus> | that's a big fucking mailbox |
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| 06:49 | <~Vornicus> | oh man I forgot this was in here |
| 06:49 | | * Vornicus finds his monopoly analysis code. |
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| 07:31 | <~Vornicus> | I should really go about refactoring this. |
| 07:31 | <~Vornicus> | It's kinda nuts. |
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| 15:06 | < Noah> | <Noah> Bjarne says Python is one of the 5 languages you should learn |
| 15:06 | < Noah> | <Noah> Oh, and C++, of course |
| 15:27 | | * celticminstrel vaguely agrees. |
| 15:27 | < celticminstrel> | What're the other three? |
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| 15:34 | < Noah> | http://youtu.be/NvWTnIoQZj4 |
| 15:34 | < Noah> | Get get's kind of vague |
| 15:34 | < Noah> | Java is the third |
| 15:38 | < celticminstrel> | I heard JavaScript, C, and C# as well. |
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| 15:45 | < Noah> | And Ruby |
| 15:50 | < celticminstrel> | He mentioned Ruby? |
| 15:54 | < Noah> | I believe so |
| 15:56 | < celticminstrel> | I missed that, then. |
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| 18:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | o.O |
| 18:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, a statically typed procedural language, a dynamically typed OO language, and three statically typed OO languages. |
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| 21:00 | | * Derakon eyes Blender. |
| 21:00 | <&Derakon> | Okay, points for the searchable functionality -- I hit spacebar, then type "origin", and find the command to reset an object's origin. |
| 21:00 | <&Derakon> | But the shortcut for that command is shift-ctrl-alt-c. |
| 21:00 | <&Derakon> | What is this, emacs? |
| 21:01 | <@Tamber> | It could be worse; it could try to follow vi's shortcuts. Or even worse, ed. |
| 21:02 | <&Derakon> | What's wrong with vi? |
| 21:02 | < celticminstrel> | I can't remember why I didn't use dynamic_cast to compare types here... |
| 21:02 | <&Derakon> | At least there you don't need to hold down three modifier keys. |
| 21:02 | < froztbyte> | well I mean they suffer from the same rough problem |
| 21:02 | <@Tamber> | Derakon, sure; you just need a keyboard the width of your desk :) |
| 21:02 | < froztbyte> | "many features, and people often use keyboards all the time!!@" |
| 21:02 | <&Derakon> | ...do you even know what you're talking about |
| 21:02 | <&Derakon> | ? |
| 21:04 | <&Derakon> | Standard commands in vi: :x, :%s/foo/bar, ma, 'a, 1G, d. |
| 21:04 | <@Tamber> | My experience with vi has bee"Half the keyboard makes it beep, the other half destroys my document; and then there's a magic key that unlocks /more/ implements of destruction" |
| 21:04 | <@Tamber> | been "* |
| 21:04 | <&Derakon> | (That being, "save and quit", "replace all foo with bar, save this point in the doc as "a", go to position marked previously as "a", go to top of document, start deleting) |
| 21:04 | <&Derakon> | So in other words, no, you don't know what you're talking about, because you never got past the initial learning curve. |
| 21:05 | <@Tamber> | I never said I knew what I was talking about, I'm just gently teasing. :) |
| 21:05 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, whatever. |
| 21:06 | < froztbyte> | haha |
| 21:06 | < froztbyte> | Tamber: so |
| 21:06 | < froztbyte> | Tamber: we can solve that |
| 21:06 | <@Tamber> | Oh, calm down; I only poked fun at your editor, it's not like I killed your dog. |
| 21:06 | < froztbyte> | Tamber: http://jonathan.jsphere.com/tagged/taming_vim |
| 21:07 | < celticminstrel> | I think it must've been because dynamic_cast can do sidecasts... |
| 21:07 | <@Tamber> | froztbyte: Thanks, but I'll be okay; I have emacs, and have the most important bits of vi memorised ("Quit", and "Quit right the fuck now before I break anything else") :p |
| 21:07 | < froztbyte> | emacs is a good shell from which to launch vi |
| 21:07 | <&Derakon> | For what it's worth, I have no problem with people poking fun at vim. |
| 21:08 | <&Derakon> | I just want them to know what they're talking about when they do it. |
| 21:08 | <@Tamber> | Heh |
| 21:08 | <@Tamber> | I'm not going to learn vi just so I can make you happy whilst taking the piss out of it~ |
| 21:09 | <&Derakon> | Then...don't take the piss out of it? |
| 21:09 | <@Tamber> | Aw, but where would the fun be in that? |
| 21:09 | <&Derakon> | It'd be in not sounding like an idiot~ |
| 21:10 | <@Tamber> | Heh. |
| 21:11 | <@Tamber> | Yeah, whatever. |
| 21:12 | <@Tamber> | And in the end it doesn't make any difference whatsoever. So *shrug* |
| 21:24 | | * Vornicus couldn't figure out how to do anything at all in Blender when he tried it last month. |
| 21:24 | <&Derakon> | It has a pretty steep learning curve. |
| 21:25 | <~Vornicus> | I somehow managed to get some random profiling menus to show and then couldn't get them to go away. |
| 21:25 | <~Vornicus> | I couldn't figure out how to tell it I wanted to place objects, or how to move the camera, or... |
| 21:25 | < froztbyte> | the tutorial used to be pretty good for the basics |
| 21:26 | < froztbyte> | which handled camera, basic objects, some animation bits |
| 21:26 | < froztbyte> | it handled more stuff too, but I forgot to continue with it after that point |
| 21:26 | <&Derakon> | One of the drawbacks of the new menu system is that the menu is now completely flat and doesn't make it easy to find new functionality. |
| 21:27 | <&Derakon> | So instead of going spacebar -> Add Object -> Add Cube, I have to know that cubes can be created, then do spacebar -> type "cube" -> select "Add Cube". |
| 21:31 | <&Derakon> | There, initial design for PowerBox: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/powerbox1.png |
| 21:32 | <&Derakon> | Ignore the graphical artifacts caused by overlapping surfaces. |
| 21:32 | <&Derakon> | I didn't bother to model the joinery work. |
| 21:32 | < froztbyte> | Derakon: man, there's some weird overlap rendering there *runne* |
| 21:32 | < froztbyte> | what's this going to be used as? |
| 21:32 | < froztbyte> | my brain says "aircon", but powerbox and aircon don't mesh well |
| 21:33 | <&Derakon> | Main region holds boards (could hold up to 5 |
| 21:33 | <&Derakon> | 5-6 boards) |
| 21:33 | <~Vornicus> | box for Power Grid board game. |
| 21:33 | <&Derakon> | As Vorn says. |
| 21:33 | < froztbyte> | oh. |
| 21:33 | < froztbyte> | right |
| 21:33 | <&Derakon> | The back area with the ridges is a bunch of little house pieces. |
| 21:33 | < froztbyte> | sorry, we've been dealing with datacenter-y stuff for a few weeks at work |
| 21:34 | <&Derakon> | Next to that is a removable tray with the fuel resources -- coal, oil, garbage, and nuclear. |
| 21:34 | <&Derakon> | Then a spot for the power plant cards, and then an open space. |
| 21:34 | < froztbyte> | new aircons, power system upgrades, measurement systems, ruggedized enclosures, etc |
| 21:34 | < froztbyte> | so hardware is the first place my brain went |
| 21:34 | <&Derakon> | The houses are annoying, because they use up so much space. |
| 21:34 | < froztbyte> | cool though |
| 21:34 | <&Derakon> | Especially if you don't want to require players to optimally pack their pieces! |
| 21:35 | < froztbyte> | do you find it saves you a lot of time doing modelling in something like blender, as opposed to sketching out ideas on paper? |
| 21:35 | <&Derakon> | I haven't tried paper sketches. |
| 21:35 | < froztbyte> | or even in some 2D app |
| 21:35 | <&Derakon> | This stuff has been simple enough that I didn't really need them; I use Blender here becauses it gives me the measurements of the pieces I need to cut. |
| 21:36 | < froztbyte> | yeah, I assumed as much for that |
| 21:36 | <&Derakon> | For AgriBox, I doubt paper would have helped much because I needed the 3D aspect too -- I had to do a lot of rearranging to get things to stack properly. |
| 21:36 | < froztbyte> | and, if you build up some sort of shapes library over time (for common pieces you might be able to get), that could save time |
| 21:36 | < froztbyte> | Derakon: hah, I was about to say that |
| 21:36 | < froztbyte> | the 3D thing probably saves a crapton of time with simulation and rejiggering |
| 21:36 | <&Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 21:39 | < gnolam> | This is what Sketchup does really well. |
| 21:40 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, but I already know how to use Blender. |
| 21:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hmm. The lids on such boxes tend to be loose, allowing pieces to get out and make a mess. Why not have a plastic "negative" glued to the inside of the top of the box that gives a bit of overlap at the edges? |
| 21:44 | <&Derakon> | My lid won't be loose. |
| 21:44 | <&Derakon> | So no problems there. |
| 21:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | rigid? |
| 21:44 | <&Derakon> | Made out of wood. |
| 21:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah, that trumps |
| 21:45 | <~Vornicus> | Der: got room in there for two decks of power plants/ |
| 21:46 | <&Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 21:46 | <&Derakon> | There are in fact two in that compartment. |
| 21:46 | <~Vornicus> | okay good. |
| 21:50 | <&Derakon> | Any thoughts on the design otherwise? |
| 21:51 | <~Vornicus> | Put a slot down the side of the deck compartment. |
| 21:51 | <&Derakon> | To make it easier to pull stuff out? |
| 21:51 | <~Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 21:51 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, okay. |
| 21:53 | <~Vornicus> | I'm still not sure i like the thickness of the shuttle walls. --I take it the frontmost compartment is for the cash? |
| 21:53 | <~Vornicus> | (not that there's much you can do about the walls.) |
| 21:53 | <&Derakon> | ...oh crap, I forgot about the cash. |
| 21:54 | <&Derakon> | Okay, it fits in that front compartment. |
| 21:54 | <&Derakon> | Phew. |
| 21:54 | <&Derakon> | You think the shuttle walls are too thick? |
| 21:55 | <&Derakon> | They're 1/4" thick. |
| 21:57 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, but that's something I always say. |
| 21:58 | <&Derakon> | They're already pretty thin, frankly. |
| 21:59 | | * Vornicus beflibbles at some of his project euler code |
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| 22:01 | <&Derakon> | Whoops. |
| 22:03 | | * io|mad-town smites Derakon |
| 22:28 | <&Derakon> | Hm, total box dimensions 19.25x14.25x2.5 inches. That's...large. |
| 22:29 | <&Derakon> | I could make it taller and stouter, I suppose... |
| 22:33 | | io|mad-town is now known as io|parents |
| 22:36 | <~Vornicus> | you're also completely filling it, by my count. |
| 22:37 | <&Derakon> | Well, there's a lot of empty space to make room for expansion boards, should they ever be acquired. |
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| 23:09 | <&Derakon> | Alternate version: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/powerbox2.png |
| 23:09 | <&Derakon> | Dimensions this time 15.25x11x3.5 |
| 23:10 | <&Derakon> | But not quite as much room for extra boards (max capacity 3), and the interior's not as arranged; stuff could slide around more easily. |
| 23:14 | <~Vornicus> | The big problem I see is that you've got tall bits and short. |
| 23:26 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, which means stuff can get out and/or slide around. |
| 23:27 | <&Derakon> | I could make the house trays taller though. |
| 23:27 | <~Vornicus> | It also means that your boards wobble. |
| 23:27 | <&Derakon> | Yep. |
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| 23:28 | <~Vornicus> | You can make the house trays taller and somewhat smaller (allowing multiple layers of houses), which lets you spread out the apparently cramped resource tray. |
| 23:29 | <~Vornicus> | If you make the house trays 1/4 the length of the box instead of 1/3, you have half the length of the box to expand the resource tray into. |
| 23:30 | <&Derakon> | Leaving a crapton of room for the power plant decks and money. |
| 23:32 | <~Vornicus> | And there's a lot of shuffling going on in the resource tray, and you don't /really/ want to extract everything from it because you've got the oil canisters in there and those roll under the couch. |
| 23:32 | <~Vornicus> | whereas dumping the houses out is less dangerous. |
| 23:37 | | * Vornicus does some fiddling. |
| 23:40 | <~Vornicus> | I suspect that /may/ make it possible to store the resources in one layer, and thus have a much shorter box there and more room for boards. |
| 23:41 | <@Alek> | wait, what's Powerbox? |
| 23:41 | <~Vornicus> | a custom box for Power Grid |
| 23:41 | <@Alek> | and Power Grid is? |
| 23:41 | <~Vornicus> | a board game. |
| 23:42 | <@Alek> | ok. |
| 23:42 | <@Alek> | ?_? |
| 23:46 | <~Vornicus> | But we're -- well, Der is, I'm just playing Peanut Gallery -- designing a custom box for it that stores stuff in a more organized way, and preferably holding more in less space. |
| 23:47 | <&Derakon> | Well, "more in less space" is more or less impossible for this one. |
| 23:47 | <&Derakon> | Given the desire to have room for expansions, anyway. |
| 23:50 | <~Vornicus> | Are there expansion pieces other than more boards, the second deck, and some manuals? |
| 23:51 | <&Derakon> | Just a few bonus cards, as far as I'm aware. |
| 23:51 | <&Derakon> | For example, the 33.3bar plant, which consumes three resources of any combination of types and powers 6 houses. |
| 23:52 | <~Vornicus> | ...silliness. |
| 23:52 | <&Derakon> | Also a dynamo that adds 1 power to one of your plants (and goes away when that plant does), and a warehouse that can store three resources. |
| 23:52 | <&Derakon> | And an amusement park that basically adds 1 city to your network. |
| --- Log closed Mon May 28 00:00:35 2012 |