| --- Log opened Wed Apr 18 00:00:44 2012 |
| 00:02 | | Noah [noah@Nightstar-9b41dd51.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #code |
| 00:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 00:10 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
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| 00:32 | | * gnolam twitches. |
| 00:32 | <&McMartin> | ? |
| 00:33 | < gnolam> | Someone who's declared a function bool leVel(bool Title = false, ...) and then wonders why bool Title isn't accessible in main(). |
| 00:33 | < gnolam> | Despite having "double checked everything". |
| 00:33 | <&McMartin> | PEBKAC |
| 00:39 | <~Vornicus> | yeah there's some good 'uns. Had to debug somebody's Java once where each object in a particular class, on instantiation, created another object of the same class. |
| 00:42 | | * gnolam decides that he just can't handle that guy without weapons-grade snark, moves on. |
| 00:43 | < gnolam> | Vornicus: well. That kind of thing can at least be understandable, depending on the instantiation/copy/move semantics. |
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| 01:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I used rebase only a few hours ago. My current case is trivial: a single commit to rebase. Yet it refuses to do it right |
| 01:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It appears to be operating backwards, taking upstream and rebasing that over my change |
| 02:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ... so I put the arguments backwards and added --keep for paranoia's sake.. and it worked, but clobbered the commit message |
| 02:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And the author |
| 02:01 | < gnolam> | It freebases. It does not rebase. |
| 02:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | huh? |
| 02:02 | < gnolam> | Rhamphoryncus: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/freebase |
| 02:02 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ahh |
| 02:02 | < Rhamphoryncus> | sounds right |
| 02:02 | | * Rhamphoryncus contemplates adding that as an alias |
| 02:03 | < gnolam> | Hee |
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| 02:19 | | * Rhamphoryncus waits to see if #mercurial can pull a magic revert command out of their collective asses |
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| 02:54 | <&McMartin> | These are the corners of DVCS that make me wonder just how bit a step up it really is from the client-server model -_- |
| 02:54 | <&McMartin> | *how big |
| 02:54 | <&McMartin> | (Beyond the admittedly large "well, for one, it doesn't require a client-server model") |
| 02:55 | | * McMartin reads through the Prince of Persia technical documents. |
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| 03:03 | < Noah1> | Great, now I'm locking up randomly |
| 03:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | McMartin: I'm of the opinion that most VCS is not VCS |
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| 03:04 | < Rhamphoryncus> | DVCS does a bit more than svn, but.. not nearly as much as I used to think |
| 03:05 | <&McMartin> | SVN did a shitload of work to try to close this gap within the client-server model in the 1.6 and 1.7 timeframes. |
| 03:05 | <&McMartin> | The gap was *enormous* in the 1.4/1.5 timeframe. |
| 03:07 | < Rhamphoryncus> | They allow you to have a local branch, with version control, while still tracking upstream changes? |
| 03:07 | < Noah1> | So, I've got two touch lamps... I can either replace both of their triacs, or convert them to manual switches |
| 03:07 | | Noah1 is now known as Noah |
| 03:09 | <&McMartin> | Rhamphoryncus: No, because the concept of local *anything* is alien to client-server models; thus, "client-server model" |
| 03:09 | < Noah> | I'm thinking manual switches, at the base. |
| 03:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | McMartin: so they haven't closed the gap at all ;) |
| 03:10 | <&McMartin> | If you believe that, you are new to the field. |
| 03:10 | <&McMartin> | However, SVN as of 1.6 finally has a concept of "branch" that is good enough to handle actually treating them as branches - keeping one updated from the other, and behaving sensibly if individual commits from one are merged back into the other. |
| 03:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm only half serious. I'm sure they've advanced in many other ways |
| 03:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But in that scenario, which IMO is very common, svn isn't a VCS at all |
| 03:11 | <&McMartin> | Yes, see, this is transparent bullshit. |
| 03:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | huh? |
| 03:11 | <&McMartin> | It's like saying that nothing prior to UNIX was an OS. |
| 03:12 | <&McMartin> | Because it didn't have fork(), a basic operation. |
| 03:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Hardly |
| 03:12 | <&McMartin> | "Your concept of 'basic operation' has as sine qua nons things that are extremely recent, comparatively" |
| 03:12 | <&McMartin> | SVN is a third-generation VCS system. |
| 03:13 | <&McMartin> | It is a quantum leap over CVS which is itself a quantum leap over RCS. |
| 03:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Let me rephrase: in that scenario your changes are not version controlled |
| 03:13 | <&McMartin> | RCS is the first Revision Control System. It says so right in its name. |
| 03:13 | <&McMartin> | Only if your solution to this is "never commit" |
| 03:13 | <&McMartin> | In a client server model, the solution is "build a branch on the server that is 'yours' and do the commits there" |
| 03:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Commit to what? I'm not upstream, I don't have commit rights |
| 03:14 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I am a *third party* trying to contribute a patch |
| 03:14 | <&McMartin> | Yes, the workflow you describe is not one envisions by the standard client-server model. |
| 03:14 | <&McMartin> | This is exactly equivalent to saying that VMS isn't an OS because it doesn't have fork() |
| 03:14 | < Rhamphoryncus> | You're overracting to what I'm saying |
| 03:15 | <&McMartin> | Well, yes, because you're saying something dumb =P |
| 03:15 | <&McMartin> | And I'm trying to put it in starker terms to make the contradiction clearer |
| 03:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | How is it dumb? I want to make patches and use version control. svn doesn't provide me with version control. |
| 03:16 | <&McMartin> | "I want to create subprocesses and share data between them and use shared memory. CreateProcess() doesn't provide me with shared memory." |
| 03:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Oh fuck off |
| 03:16 | <&McMartin> | To be more precise: you have as an implicitly stated basic requirement that people *without commit rights* can maintain parallel sets of commits. |
| 03:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | YES |
| 03:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Explicit, not implicit |
| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | This is not a basic feature; it is, in fact, the defining feature of fourth-generation version control systems. |
| 03:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Rhamphoryncus: "SVN is a terrible version control system" and "SVN is not a version control system" are different statements. |
| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | Notice that "fourth" means there were three generations before it. |
| 03:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | *in that context* |
| 03:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | The feature you want was not a feature of any version control system until recently. |
| 03:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | "SVN is not a modern version control system" is not a controversial statement any more than "windows 95 is not a modern OS" is. |
| 03:18 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's like arguing about how great of a "vehicle" your car is.. in a boat race. Sure, it's a vehicle, and in the right context it's great, but it's useless in a boat race. It doesn't even qualify as a vehicle there |
| 03:18 | <&McMartin> | That said: it is still a true statement that the gap between SVN and git has closed appreciably, and that's because the gap between SVN and the best of the third-generation systems like Perforce have closed almost entirely. |
| 03:19 | <&McMartin> | (Having never used Perforce I cannot judge the precise accuracy of this statement, but my understanding is that Perforce has non-broken branching in a 3rd-generation context.) |
| 03:19 | <&McMartin> | "It doesn't even qualify as a vehicle there" <-- see, I would call that statement false at the same level of "this is transparent bullshit" |
| 03:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Your vehicle is sitting on the bottom of the lake. How does it qualify as a vehicle? |
| 03:20 | <&McMartin> | ... because "vehicle" is a superclass. |
| 03:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It is functionally equivalent to a house |
| 03:20 | <&McMartin> | You are attempting an invalid downcast. |
| 03:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | You're redefining "vehicle" halfway through your question to mean "vehicle that can travel on water" |
| 03:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ENGLISH. |
| 03:20 | <&McMartin> | vehicle doesn't *have* a navigateWaterway() method, that's only in the boat subclass. |
| 03:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | YES. IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT |
| 03:21 | <&McMartin> | This is a bit of object orientation we explicitly copied from English to make it work like natural language. |
| 03:21 | <&McMartin> | We are frustrated, thus the boldface |
| 03:21 | < Noah> | Windows 95 isn't modern? |
| 03:21 | <&McMartin> | Noah: No, but Windows 2000 is by the contexts I'd use |
| 03:21 | <&McMartin> | That is, it has automatic process separation and some notion of process-level privilege. |
| 03:22 | <&McMartin> | Windows 95/98/ME don't, and handle all IPC via every process sharing the top half of the address space. |
| 03:23 | <&McMartin> | (We may need a better word than "modern" for "actively realizes the basics of the vision Multics had, not counting the pipe dream 'computing utility' stuff" - Multics's design is Kind Of Old Now) |
| 03:24 | < Noah> | Heh |
| 03:24 | < Noah> | So, I decided to convert my dead touch lamps into manual switches with these http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100201339/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId= 10053&langId=-1&keyword=cord+switch&storeId=10051 and just remove the dead touch modules |
| 03:24 | <&McMartin> | IIRC, no Windows had actually acceptable notions of process-level privilege until Vista. |
| 03:24 | <&McMartin> | But I'm honestly not super clear on the details. |
| 03:25 | < Noah> | Since a dying bulb has a tendency to burn out those touch modules |
| 03:25 | <&McMartin> | Both it and XP have things that look like your standard selinux-style ACLs. |
| 03:25 | <&McMartin> | Oog, yeah, that's no good |
| 03:25 | < Noah> | I'd just use Linux |
| 03:26 | < Noah> | And on that subject, I think I might be going debian again |
| 03:26 | < Noah> | Since I'm just using Xfce anywho |
| 03:26 | <&McMartin> | IIRC, the stock POSIX user/group/other setup isn't considered acceptable these days, which is whey they bolted ACLs on top of it. |
| 03:26 | <&McMartin> | I am not sufficiently Fancy at security to know the reason this is so, or how ACLs fix that. |
| 03:27 | <&McMartin> | It's something beyond mere granularity, though. |
| 03:28 | < Noah> | Need to check which version of librsvg is in plain old Debian though |
| 03:28 | <&McMartin> | What's the "r" there mean? |
| 03:28 | < Noah> | rsvg |
| 03:29 | < Noah> | And, I'm not sure actualy |
| 03:29 | <&McMartin> | I'm reading that as r-SVG, SVG being the Standardized (?) Vector Graphics format |
| 03:29 | < Noah> | Yes |
| 03:31 | < Noah> | Yea, can't seem to figure out what the R is for |
| 03:36 | < Noah> | Well, stable is way behind. |
| 03:38 | < Noah> | testing is on 2.36.0, and unstable is on 2.36.1 |
| 03:38 | <&McMartin> | stable is on 1.5? |
| 03:39 | < Noah> | 2.26.3 |
| 03:40 | < Noah> | Which is old enough not to display several of my SVGs correctly |
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| 03:55 | < Noah> | Oh |
| 03:55 | < Noah> | I get it |
| 03:55 | < Noah> | Debian is named from Toy Story characters |
| 03:56 | < Noah> | hurrr |
| 04:00 | | * Noah looks at xubuntu |
| 04:02 | < Noah> | http://xubuntu.org/news/window-resizing-in-xubuntu-and-xfce/ |
| 04:02 | < Noah> | Method 2 omg |
| 04:04 | < gnolam> | But does it have Windows+left or Windows+right? No. :( |
| 04:05 | < Noah> | Icky |
| 04:05 | < Noah> | I rarely used a 50/50 split anyway |
| 04:05 | < Noah> | But it has window snapping, so I can get close to it if I need to |
| 04:10 | <@rms> | Window snapping > Windows 7's failsplit thing |
| 04:10 | <@rms> | Normally I want 40/60 or 30/70 splits |
| 04:10 | <@rms> | 50/50 is useless |
| 04:11 | <&McMartin> | Disagree |
| 04:11 | <&McMartin> | Web browser/Text editor OTP |
| 04:11 | <@rms> | I do that as 60/40 |
| 04:12 | < Noah> | Yea, depends on workspace for me, for example, Pidgin runs with the buddy list, so it's something like 1/9th of the screen width, with the chat windows fill the rest in various shapes |
| 04:12 | <@rms> | Again, 50/50 is useless, code doesn't normally go past 90 columns (which is what my current editor at 40% of the width gets) |
| 04:13 | <@rms> | and the rare times it does, I don't care. |
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| 13:55 | <@TheWatcher> | ... gods damnit, I know I wrote this code |
| 14:06 | <@TheWatcher> | Aha, there it is! |
| 14:32 | < froztbyte> | haha |
| 14:32 | < froztbyte> | I've had that feeling too |
| 14:32 | < froztbyte> | commit messages of ".....re-commit, since apparently the previous commit is missing(?!?!??!)" are not unheard of |
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| 14:37 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, in this case, I wanted a function to do something in one project, but knew I'd done it in another before now... so I ended up doing a `grep -ri "truncate" /home/chris/*` >.< |
| 14:47 | < froztbyte> | ack-grep ftw |
| 14:47 | < froztbyte> | (just offhand) |
| 14:48 | < froztbyte> | also -rHni is nice, and I guess you use your ~ totally different to how I do :D |
| 17:01 | < gnolam> | "Every time you use a regexp God tries to kill a puppy but accidentially wipes them all out because he uses a greedy match" |
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| 17:19 | < froztbyte> | teeeheee |
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| 18:38 | < celticminstrel> | ... |
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| 21:32 | < gnolam> | http://petdance.com/2012/04/the-worlds-two-worst-variable-names/ |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 19 00:00:00 2012 |