| --- Log opened Tue Mar 27 00:00:12 2012 |
| 00:07 | | noah [noah@490720.C448F4.425A04.E87BD2] has joined #code |
| 01:05 | < noah> | I should stop playing Tetzle and work on getting my fingerprint scanner working |
| 01:11 | | noah [noah@490720.C448F4.425A04.E87BD2] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 01:52 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:58 | | noah [noah@490720.C448F4.425A04.E87BD2] has joined #code |
| 01:58 | < noah> | Well, it's not as pretty as in Windows, but at least I can fingerprint though lockscreens, startup, and terminal sudo |
| 02:00 | < noah> | Annoying that I can't use my ThinkVantage button and the lastest Nvidia drivers at the same time, but I'll have to deal |
| 02:06 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-c6df5028.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:06 | <&McMartin> | Do you often use the ThinkVantage button? |
| 02:06 | < noah> | I usually have it bound to guake for a dropdown term |
| 02:07 | <&McMartin> | aha |
| 02:16 | < noah> | I've gotta get out of unity, this thing is useless |
| 02:18 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 02:18 | < noah> | brb |
| 02:18 | | noah [noah@490720.C448F4.425A04.E87BD2] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 02:38 | | noah [noah@490720.C448F4.425A04.E87BD2] has joined #code |
| 02:38 | < noah> | Gah, gnome 3 is bad too. Let's try KDE |
| 02:39 | < noah> | Why is everything bad anymore! |
| 02:40 | <&McMartin> | Because those damn kids are on your lawn |
| 02:40 | < noah> | Gah, damn kids! |
| 02:41 | < noah> | leave muh buntoos and gnomes alone ye damn whippersnappers |
| 02:41 | <&McMartin> | yay |
| 02:41 | <&McMartin> | Meanwhile, uh, i dunno |
| 02:41 | <&McMartin> | xmonad? |
| 02:41 | < noah> | uh wut? |
| 02:42 | <&McMartin> | Haskell-based tiling window manager |
| 02:42 | <&McMartin> | As far away from Unity as it is possible to be >_> |
| 02:42 | < noah> | good dog lag |
| 02:42 | < noah> | is it like twm? |
| 02:42 | <&McMartin> | I've actually never used it, but I know some people in-channel do. |
| 02:44 | < noah> | "the tiling window manager that rocks" |
| 02:44 | < noah> | hmm |
| 02:51 | <@rms> | twm is just shit. |
| 02:51 | | * rms personally uses wmii, has tried Awesome and dwm. |
| 02:58 | <@himi> | Windowmaker |
| 03:00 | < noah> | "Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, it's pointless to make binary packages of it. This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions. There are some distributions that provide binary packages though." |
| 03:00 | < noah> | XD |
| 03:04 | | * Vornicus considers rms |
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| 03:26 | <&Derakon> | ...oh, right, that's why I don't use Python2.7. If I want to use OpenGL I need Numpy, and Numpy doesn't coexist with 64-bit Python2.7 yet on OSX. |
| 03:32 | <&McMartin> | Boo |
| 03:32 | <&Derakon> | Although, come to think, I may not need OpenGL for this particular project. |
| 03:37 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 03:39 | | maoranma [noah@490720.DD2C85.1C4B91.159FDF] has joined #code |
| 03:39 | < maoranma> | bah, lag |
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| 04:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | god damnit. Ubuntu installed flash player on me. |
| 04:10 | | * Rhamphoryncus rages |
| 04:13 | < maoranma> | lol |
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| 04:15 | | noah [noah@490720.DD2C85.1C4B91.159FDF] has joined #code |
| 04:15 | < noah> | Woah KDE is weird |
| 04:20 | <&McMartin> | I tried KDE4 when it was new, in a SuSE distro, IIRC |
| 04:20 | <&McMartin> | I was unable to make heads nor tails of it |
| 04:25 | < noah> | I don't hate it, which I more than I can say for Unity or Gnome 3 |
| 04:25 | < noah> | But that may be because I have learned to hate it yet, so time will tell |
| 04:26 | < noah> | haven't* |
| 04:30 | < Namegduf> | I tried KDE4 once when it was new in a build-from-source distro. |
| 04:30 | < Namegduf> | This was a foolish mistake. |
| 04:30 | < Namegduf> | And one that would haunt me for the rest of my life. |
| 04:33 | <@rms> | That must have been a long year for you then. |
| 04:34 | < Namegduf> | Actually it never worked |
| 04:34 | < Namegduf> | Just spat out error messages along the lines of "library gone!" in detail |
| 04:35 | < Namegduf> | Dolphin had similar issues |
| 04:35 | < Namegduf> | Couldn't find any of the file I/O backends |
| 04:35 | < Namegduf> | It actually works when installed properly, I'd assume, so you wouldn't get those. |
| 04:36 | | * Derakon starts refactoring something, realizes that his self from five hours earlier had already dealt with the problem the refactoring would have nominally fixed, hits undo a few times. |
| 04:36 | <&Derakon> | Man I'm out of it. |
| 04:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | wtf. Disabled flash, uninstalled the autoinstaller, and everything that wanted it broke (such as youtube). After poking around in my add-ons for other issues I realized that although "disabled", it was still present, so I removed it this time.. and youtube works again. Exactly as before. |
| 04:43 | < noah> | Okay, so I don't entirely hate KDE, but I have to figure out what this activities interface is for |
| 04:44 | < noah> | Oh, hello Dolphin, I believe this is the first time we've met |
| 04:46 | < noah> | It had something built in that's sort of like Fences that Stardock makes for Windows, I like that |
| 04:47 | <&Derakon> | The context I know of for "Dolphin" with regards to software is a Gamecube/Wii emulator. |
| 04:47 | <&Derakon> | I'm guessing that's not what you were talking about. |
| 04:47 | < noah> | Dolphin is KDE's file manager |
| 04:47 | <&Derakon> | Ah. |
| 04:48 | < noah> | As opposed to nautilus |
| 04:54 | | * Derakon typos "touch" to "touche" while creating a file. |
| 04:57 | < noah> | Yay! KDE Crash, lol |
| 05:03 | < noah> | Okay, so widgets are the same for both the desktop and the panels, which are more like areas for widgets where the window doesn't maximize over them |
| 05:11 | <&Derakon> | Hm, I guess though that things really do need to know where they are instead of letting the game map track all that for them. |
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| 07:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 10:11 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 12:44 | | * TheWatcher hairpulls, curses people for making major requirement changes |
| 14:23 | < froztbyte> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=wgJfVRhotlQ |
| 14:23 | < froztbyte> | maybe less the & |
| 14:25 | <@TheWatcher> | It'll work with it, so hey~ |
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| 14:41 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 18:17 | | noah [noah@490720.DD2C85.1C4B91.159FDF] has joined #code |
| 18:18 | < noah> | Gah, why does linux have to be so complicated |
| 18:18 | < noah> | When it comes to windows managers, desktops, etc... |
| 18:18 | <&McMartin> | Why do you hate freedom so much |
| 18:18 | < noah> | I know |
| 18:19 | < noah> | I need to be restricted, all these options are driving me crazy |
| 18:19 | < noah> | I'm in awesome right now |
| 18:20 | <&McMartin> | (The serious answer is "this is why having design abilities is a skill", and AFAICT all the people that used to have them and would set decent defaults all went mad around the time development on OSX 10.7 started.) |
| 18:20 | < noah> | Clearly |
| 18:21 | < noah> | And Ubuntu has managed to screw up classic gnome too |
| 18:21 | <&McMartin> | So did GNOME~ |
| 18:21 | <&McMartin> | Fedora runs GNOME "stock" and it is not significantly different than Unity IME |
| 18:23 | | * ShellNinja has found GNOME on Debian adequate in performance. |
| 18:23 | < ShellNinja> | Certainly no worse than the GUI of Windows. |
| 18:24 | <&McMartin> | It has one noticable flaw compared to Windows, which is that it's using Mac window switch hotkey semantics with Windows, well, windos. |
| 18:24 | <&McMartin> | This doesn't add up. |
| 18:24 | <&McMartin> | If each instance of an application is actually independent, they should be separate slots in the Alt-Tab rotation. |
| 18:25 | < noah> | Sometimes there's a separate hotkey to switch between windows of the same application, like meta-` |
| 18:26 | <&McMartin> | Yes. That's what Stock GNOME does for different instances of the same application |
| 18:26 | <&McMartin> | I think it's wrong for GNOME to do this because unlike Macs, those windows share no state or UI. On the Mac, they all share a menu so it's what Windows would call an MDI, just with an invisible background. |
| 18:26 | < noah> | Yup |
| 18:27 | <&McMartin> | It bespeaks a mindless copying of Steve without knowing why they did it. |
| 18:27 | <&McMartin> | Also, stock GNOME doesn't have my favorite Windows feature >_> |
| 18:27 | <&McMartin> | (Dragging a window to a screen edge auto-resizes to take up That Half Of The Screen) |
| 18:27 | < noah> | I think I could get used to awesome if I could figure out how to monitor some things, like wireless, battery... |
| 18:31 | < noah> | Hmm |
| 18:32 | < noah> | Suddenly can't click on anything |
| 18:32 | < noah> | brb |
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| 18:34 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:39 | | noah [noah@490720.DD2C85.1C4B91.159FDF] has joined #code |
| 18:40 | < noah> | Guess I'll just stick with KDE |
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| 19:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | One of these days we'll have a windowing setup that doesn't suck like a bad 4chan thread |
| 19:18 | | * ShellNinja pipes up at the mention of 4chan. |
| 19:19 | | * TheWatcher[afk] readsup, gives noah Enlightenment~ |
| 19:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The whole tabs vs windows vs fullscreen vs tiled thing is a symptom of how the whole system sucks |
| 19:25 | | noah [noah@490720.DD2C85.1C4B91.159FDF] has joined #code |
| 19:25 | < noah> | Bah |
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| 20:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Dammit, google, if I search for "manual", do not give me an entire page of results for "guide" |
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| 21:31 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 22:16 | <@rms> | ToxicFrog: Add double quotes around the word |
| 22:17 | <@rms> | It'll make Google only return that exact word, instead of using near matches |
| 22:17 | | * Tamber peers at rms. |
| 22:18 | <@rms> | Yes? |
| 22:19 | <@Tamber> | Mmmh. |
| 22:20 | <&McMartin> | This hasn't been properly functional for some time, unless they've re-enabled it |
| 22:20 | <@Tamber> | What, and admit they don't actually know better than you? |
| 22:20 | <@rms> | Works fine for me |
| 22:20 | <@Tamber> | :p |
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| 22:42 | | * Rhamphoryncus finds a piece of pizza on the kitchen counter |
| 22:42 | | * Rhamphoryncus eats it |
| 23:01 | <@rms> | Is IRC Twitter now? |
| 23:03 | <&McMartin> | Twitter is IRC for young people. |
| 23:03 | <&McMartin> | Alternately: "I see you haven't spent much time on Nightstar" |
| 23:08 | < celticminstrel> | ? |
| 23:08 | < celticminstrel> | How is Twitter anything like IRC? :P |
| 23:10 | <@himi> | Text based short message communication system |
| 23:10 | <@himi> | Totally different architecture, but there are certainly similarities |
| 23:12 | < Tarinaky> | The main similarity being that for a system with a hard cap on the number of characters per message an aweful lot is said about very little. |
| 23:13 | < celticminstrel> | IRC's cap is kinda... variable. |
| 23:13 | < Tarinaky> | Also Twitter's original selling point was you could add bots to it to extend it... just like IRC. |
| 23:13 | < celticminstrel> | Seeing how it's on the entire command, not just the message. |
| 23:13 | < celticminstrel> | Oh, there exist twitter-bots? |
| 23:13 | < Tarinaky> | And I suspect different servers will have different caps hardcoded. |
| 23:13 | < Tarinaky> | There used to be. |
| 23:14 | < Tarinaky> | I dunno if anyone ever actually -used- the API for anything worthwhile. |
| 23:14 | < celticminstrel> | Different servers? |
| 23:14 | < celticminstrel> | Was that about IRC or Twitter? |
| 23:14 | < Tarinaky> | IRC. |
| 23:15 | < Tarinaky> | The size of the message/command is limited by an RFC nobody follows and a variable somewhere in the tangled mass of server code. |
| 23:15 | < Namegduf> | Actually, the 512 limit is extremely well enforced. |
| 23:15 | < Namegduf> | Because it lets developers be lazy and work with static 512 buffers. |
| 23:16 | < celticminstrel> | I'd never heard of one with a length greater than 512. |
| 23:16 | < Tarinaky> | I have. |
| 23:16 | <@himi> | On the client side behaviour can vary |
| 23:16 | < Tarinaky> | It was buggy. |
| 23:16 | < Namegduf> | I know that irssi cannot issue lines more than 512 long. |
| 23:16 | < Namegduf> | It will clip them locally. |
| 23:16 | <@himi> | mIRC used to clip messages at 512, whereas sane clients will wrap to a second message |
| 23:17 | <@TheWatcher> | Namegduf: unless you use the splitlong plugin |
| 23:17 | < Namegduf> | Context, you two |
| 23:17 | < Namegduf> | We're talking message length caps |
| 23:17 | < Namegduf> | These things are appropriate reactions to the cap |
| 23:17 | < Namegduf> | But they still enforce one at a certain point |
| 23:17 | < Namegduf> | And it is quite consistently 512 |
| 23:18 | < Namegduf> | But yeah. |
| 23:18 | <@himi> | Yeah - I'm noting that it can /look/ like the 512 char cap is inconsistent because of different client behaviour |
| 23:18 | < Namegduf> | InspIRCd probably uses a variable somewhere to set the length. |
| 23:19 | < Namegduf> | But doesn't have configurability in core and enforces 512. |
| 23:19 | < Namegduf> | The Charybdis family (including ircd-seven and ShadowIRCd) will use 513-size char[] arrays |
| 23:25 | | * rms is pretty certain most clients would freak out at a server handling 1024+ character commands |
| 23:25 | < Namegduf> | irssi doesn't actually mind |
| 23:26 | < Namegduf> | It just will never *issue* them |
| 23:26 | < Namegduf> | I don't know about others. |
| 23:27 | < Namegduf> | Clients are pretty good about conservative-in-what-they-send-liberal-in-what-they-accept |
| 23:27 | < Namegduf> | You kinda have to be with as vague and variable a thing as IRC. |
| 23:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I think xchat splits at around 450 or something |
| 23:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The server stuffs on prefixes, not the client, so you have to guess at how much you have |
| 23:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh cute. The scrollbar of the raw log window is longer than the screen |
| 23:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Just checked and a single line got 75 characters of prefix |
| 23:51 | <@rms> | Also having a shorter nick/user/host will give you shorter prefix, since it gives all three on each PRIVMSG for reasons unknown. |
| 23:54 | <~Vornicus> | the 512 char cap is also affected by the host mangling that many networks do |
| 23:55 | <~Vornicus> | WHat looks like 512 characters to the sender does not necessarily look like it to the receiver because the network is mangling the message in between. |
| --- Log closed Wed Mar 28 00:00:26 2012 |