| --- Log opened Sat Feb 11 00:00:17 2012 |
| --- Day changed Sat Feb 11 2012 |
| 00:00 | <&McMartin> | They're l33t |
| 00:00 | <&McMartin> | Also, ever since Linux set up the Exceutable Linking Format? |
| 00:00 | <@Tamber> | Hehehe |
| 00:01 | <@Tamber> | https://github.com/TamberP/Klompen/commit/e1fc0de52c1803b49f927ad26ada28bd19bc1d 67 Shame I won't be seeing dw4rfc0de. ...that said, I'm not sure what I'd do with that much lava. |
| 00:44 | < maoranma> | Classic skins in Winamp, still better than "modern" skins. |
| 01:05 | <@froztbyte> | lately I've just always been using foobar2k on windoesn't boxen |
| 01:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | I keep wanting to use things other than winamp, but winamp's queue management and jump-to implementation are just so much better than everything else out there it pisses me off. |
| 01:06 | <&McMartin> | Usable UIs are for filthy people who hate freedom |
| 01:08 | <&McMartin> | I still can't beleive who incredibly shitty all the default Ubuntu media players are. |
| 01:09 | <&McMartin> | Being able to set a playlist order is not an optional feature. |
| 01:10 | <&Derakon> | Like, an order in which to play several playlists, or an order in which to play songs within a playlist? |
| 01:10 | <&McMartin> | The latter |
| 01:10 | <&McMartin> | If you load multiple tracks into Brasero, it insists on playing them in alphabetical order. |
| 01:10 | <&Derakon> | Yie. |
| 01:10 | <&Derakon> | That's pretty terrible. |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | It's also the only media player I've found on Linux that will live unobtrusively in the status bar, my *other* demand for a media player. |
| 01:11 | < Namegduf> | I just leave mine on Workspace 9 |
| 01:11 | < Namegduf> | And hit Win+9 to interact with it. |
| 01:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: the problem, AFAICT, is that you can replace "all the default Ubuntu media players" with "every media player that runs natively on Linux" and the statement remains true. |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | That's significantly more obnoxious than clicking the corner of my workspace. |
| 01:12 | <&McMartin> | TF: Fair enough - I've only tried on Ubuntu, because my Fedora systems are all but headless. |
| 01:12 | < Namegduf> | I actually find keyboard shortcuts easier and faster than clicking buttons |
| 01:12 | < Namegduf> | But maybe I'm just used to it. |
| 01:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Audacious2 (not to be confused with the audio editor Audacity) is probably the least terrible. |
| 01:12 | < Namegduf> | I have a browser button, but I still use Win+C pretty exclusively to open new Chrome windows. |
| 01:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | By which I mean it is Winamp but not as good. |
| 01:13 | < Namegduf> | To be fair, it is a damn sight better than newer Winamp As Designed By AOL(TM) |
| 01:13 | < Namegduf> | Which is full of bloat and crap |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | It's high time we had Classic Winamp Reimplemented Elsewhere. |
| 01:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | They fixed that two major versions ago, actually~ |
| 01:13 | < Namegduf> | Winamp Agent, I mean, what the hell? |
| 01:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Er |
| 01:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, there's a few issues here |
| 01:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | (a) Winamp Agent was introduced in Winamp 2.x over a decade ago |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | I'm holding a different conversation than Namegduf; I'm aware that Winamp 5.x Lite and later has been fine. |
| 01:14 | < Namegduf> | Ah, it's had that crap for longer than I knew. |
| 01:14 | < Namegduf> | I've not messed with recent Winamp. |
| 01:14 | < Namegduf> | I'm a Spotify guy nowadays. |
| 01:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | (b) the terrible bloated one that everyone rightly hated, Winamp 3, was killed and buried in an unmarked grave pretty much as soon as it was introduced |
| 01:14 | < Namegduf> | Although I did consider writing a FUSE filesystem backed by libspotify at one point |
| 01:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | (b) the current-as-of-many-years-ago version, Winamp 5, is basically Winamp 2 + the only good features from Winamp 3 |
| 01:15 | < Namegduf> | So other music players (mostly WINE'd Audiosurf) could access its entire archive |
| 01:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | And all of the Winamp 3 stuff can be disabled on an as-desired or install-time basis. |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | (c) In a bitter irony, the random shit they put together for WinAmp's installer has been the best-of-breed sharchive program on Windows for at least a decade, by a stupendously huge margin |
| 01:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: Audacious pretty much is Classic Winamp Reimplemented Elsewhere; the problem is that the bits I really like only got really polished in Winamp 5. |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | TF: Oho. |
| 01:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ditto XMMS, with an added "...and it hasn't been updated in a decade" |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | I used to use XMMS, but it stopped working with my desktop environments |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | As my playlists rarely top 30 or so, Audacious sounds like it's actually right up my alley. |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | Actually |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | Does Audacious also have CLI controls? |
| 01:17 | < Namegduf> | Audacious was my music player before I used Spotify, and is still installed. |
| 01:17 | < Namegduf> | Yes. |
| 01:17 | < gnolam> | When I tried Audacious, it lacked any kind of jump to or filtering. |
| 01:17 | < Namegduf> | It's pretty much Winamp minus a library. |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | If I can give the headless Fedora box a mouth, that's best of all worlds. |
| 01:17 | < Namegduf> | It has a jump to. |
| 01:17 | < Namegduf> | I forget how to use it but I have done so before. |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | Filtering I don't need; jump to I need. |
| 01:17 | < Namegduf> | But that might have been newer than your use. |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | (My "filtering" is a set of playlists that I call up at will) |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | (I don't do the 'load a list of 15,000 tracks and jump around it' thing) |
| 01:18 | <&McMartin> | (That's what my filesystem is for. I do want to be able to build 'mix tapes' though) |
| 01:18 | < gnolam> | The nearest I got was a search box that didn't actually do anything. |
| 01:18 | < Namegduf> | Weird |
| 01:19 | < Namegduf> | I'm a bit of a Spotify fan. It is the first offering in legal music I consider truly competitive, and I use it heavily. |
| 01:19 | < Namegduf> | ?10 for any music I want is a reasonable offer. |
| 01:19 | <&Derakon> | Is Spotify one of those "pay fees for unlimited music" deals? |
| 01:19 | < gnolam> | Spotify was great, until the record companies ruined it. |
| 01:20 | < Namegduf> | Imagine iTunes, but not slowass and without all the UI horrors, but basically similar in terms of a screen of songs with playlists and other menu items on the left. |
| 01:20 | < Namegduf> | Now imagine your library contains every song ever. |
| 01:20 | < gnolam> | ... except it doesn't. |
| 01:20 | <&Derakon> | Oddly enough, I use iTunes. But I'm on OSX, so it's not a shambling horror like it apparently is on Windows. |
| 01:20 | < gnolam> | It contains maybe half the songs you want to listen to. |
| 01:20 | < Namegduf> | Okay, yeah, it's short some. That's the downside. But it is close enough. |
| 01:21 | < Namegduf> | If you say so. |
| 01:21 | < Namegduf> | That's pretty much the Spotify player, though. They have one for Linux, Windows, and OS X. |
| 01:21 | < gnolam> | And what's in there today is NOT guaranteed to be there tomorrow. |
| 01:21 | < Namegduf> | They also have iPhone and Android apps. |
| 01:21 | < Namegduf> | (If you pay ?10 rather than ?5 or free-with-ads) |
| 01:21 | < gnolam> | Which is the dealbreaker for me ever paying for it. |
| 01:21 | < Namegduf> | That's true. But my subscription fee is, technically, not guaranteed to be there tomorrow |
| 01:22 | < Namegduf> | I can cancel and the most they can do is give me a crappy remainder of a month |
| 01:22 | < Namegduf> | And as that's highly unlikely, I can deal with that. |
| 01:22 | <&Derakon> | I generally prefer to have my data in perpetuity rather than be beholden to external companies who may decide to go belly-up at any time. |
| 01:22 | | * gnolam mourns the loss of the free player. |
| 01:22 | < Namegduf> | I'd want that if I bought music at a decent price. |
| 01:22 | < gnolam> | Yeah, it technically still exists. But is as crippled as to be unusable. |
| 01:22 | < Namegduf> | But at ?10/mo for most everything, I can deal with restrictions. |
| 01:23 | < Namegduf> | libspotify deals with most of my lock-in concerns |
| 01:23 | <&McMartin> | Since I'm mostly assembling music I already control, iTunes and things like it are solving the wrong problem for me. |
| 01:23 | < Namegduf> | Since you can, technically, just write another player |
| 01:23 | < Namegduf> | Yeah. |
| 01:23 | < gnolam> | (It used to be this awesome ad-supported thing: basically radio, but with you choosing the songs. Then the record companies stepped in and... well, sent people back to piracy.) |
| 01:23 | < Namegduf> | That's true, yeah. |
| 01:23 | < Namegduf> | I switched over to Premium so I could turn my phone into a music player which happened to contain most of the music ever |
| 01:24 | < Namegduf> | So I'm unaffected anyway. |
| 01:24 | < Namegduf> | Besides, Spotify are actively trying to licence the rest, and the more people who buy from them the better their bargaining position, so I feel better buying from them than any other way to funnel money to the BPI/RIAA crew. |
| 01:25 | < Namegduf> | I have some non-Spotify music as "local music", but Spotify will sync that to my phone. |
| 01:25 | < Namegduf> | It won't sync it to other desktop instances, though. :( |
| 01:27 | < gnolam> | Also: Spotify's metadata handling is absolutely awful. |
| 01:29 | < Namegduf> | For local files? |
| 01:29 | < gnolam> | For example, years are basically only correct for anything that's been released after Spotify was. |
| 01:29 | < Namegduf> | Oh, I see. |
| 01:29 | < gnolam> | Which wouldn't be a big problem except... Spotify sorts albums per year. And only by year. |
| 01:30 | < Namegduf> | I have a libspotify app somewhere which counts the size of their available music, optionally given a search string, which can specify genres. |
| 01:30 | < gnolam> | The end result is that an artist's albums are sorted in basically random order. |
| 01:30 | < gnolam> | It also doesn't differentiate between different artists sharing the same name. |
| 01:30 | < Namegduf> | I threw it together because I was planning on trying to cheat my way into the US version, which was much cheaper |
| 01:30 | < Namegduf> | But failed. |
| 01:31 | < Namegduf> | I'd need a US-based PayPal account and other annoyances which could end up frozen and losing money. |
| 01:31 | < Namegduf> | They took that out recently. |
| 01:31 | < gnolam> | This is also a PITA, especially with the more generic band names. |
| 01:31 | < Namegduf> | I didn't know that. |
| 01:31 | < Namegduf> | Pretty annoying. |
| 01:32 | < gnolam> | Then there's the quality of the rest of the metadata, which often makes you wonder "shitty OCR or dyslexic data entry temp?". |
| 01:32 | < gnolam> | There are songs you can't find there unless you misspell them. |
| 01:32 | < Namegduf> | Weird. I've never run into this. |
| 01:32 | < gnolam> | Tying in with the "doesn't differentiate between artists sharing a name", this can get especially amusing. |
| 01:35 | < gnolam> | E.g. Grendel's listing. Last I checked, it had albums by the Dutch aggrotech band I wanted to listen to, some kind of crappy metal band I didn't, and some kind of muzaky German by the name of "Klaus Brendel". |
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| 03:09 | < maoranma> | ]20:05[ <@ToxicFrog> I keep wanting to use things other than winamp, but winamp's queue management and jump-to implementation are just so much better than everything else out there it pisses me off. |
| 03:09 | < maoranma> | This |
| 03:10 | < maoranma> | I'd leave Winamp, but Songbird isn't that great and there's almost no embrace for it |
| 03:10 | < maoranma> | And everyone has been using Winamp since The Dawn Of Time, no one cares to switch |
| 03:11 | < maoranma> | Plus Winamps site is -bad-. It's much easier to find skins on deviantArt than at Winamp's own site |
| 03:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sadly, while on windows I can just use winamp, on linux it's plagued by random, crippling slowdowns. |
| 03:12 | < maoranma> | Plus there's Milkdrop, my favorite vis |
| 03:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | I never got the point of vis. |
| 03:13 | < maoranma> | well, it makes a good replacement for an actual sceen saver if you're using the computer to listen to music, but doing something else |
| 03:14 | < maoranma> | But yea, it's mostly just pretty to look at |
| 03:14 | < maoranma> | Mine actually just opens in a square...here, I'll just show ya |
| 03:14 | < Eri> | I Like the one's by martin. I tried to hack together a little modification to one of his visualizations, but it wasn't so gerat |
| 03:14 | < Eri> | *ones |
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| 03:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | See, I'm either using the computer, or doing something else and have the screen -off- so it's not distracting. |
| 03:20 | < maoranma> | http://fav.me/d4pb2wa |
| 03:21 | < maoranma> | That's my current winamp setup |
| 03:53 | < RichyB> | maoranma: XMMS, or any of its descendants? |
| 03:54 | < RichyB> | It's a pretty blatant rip off WinAmp 2's UI and that is a good thing. |
| 03:55 | < maoranma> | XMMS is on Linux? I think I've used it |
| 03:56 | <&McMartin> | XMMS hasn't been updated in like a decade if that |
| 03:56 | <&McMartin> | I have no idea how well it plays with libpulse these days |
| 04:11 | < RichyB> | McMartin: I had a vague impression that there were some forks with more recent updates. |
| 04:15 | <@Tamber> | Audacious (actually updated fork (IIRC) of XMMS) plays very nicely with pulse. |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | I mentioned that earlier; it's what I'm using on linux. |
| 04:17 | <@Tamber> | I've not seen XMMS in years, though. (Aside from the odd idjit trying to make some ancient package of it install and run, just because the updated codebase that does the same thing and uses the same themes, etc isn't called XMMS.) |
| 04:34 | | * Vornicus could never get Winamp to do what he wanted. |
| 04:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | What is it that you wanted? |
| 04:40 | < maoranma> | Not be Winamp probably |
| 04:50 | | * Stalker would still be using Winamp 2.97 if possible. |
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| 04:57 | <~Vornicus> | TF: well, the big one is, it doesn't seem to have the ability to keep track of my music library in general, and then preserve that information while I build playlists etc. |
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| 04:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: while I barely use it, my understanding is that the suggestively named "music library" is meant to do just that. |
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| 04:59 | <~Vornicus> | That every time I've ever used it, it appears to exist only in a mode where all the buttons are too small to use, doesn't help. |
| 05:23 | < maoranma> | Buttons seem fine to me |
| 05:23 | < maoranma> | And you can zoom it |
| 05:24 | < maoranma> | On a mondern skin, that is |
| 05:24 | < maoranma> | maybe you're just bad a computers |
| 05:31 | <~Vornicus> | even at double size I couldn't reliably read it. |
| 05:33 | < maoranma> | Jeez, you're blinder than me, or oh a QuadHD screen |
| 05:33 | < maoranma> | on* |
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| 06:30 | <@Kindamoody> | Oh great, I changed from a while loop to a for loop, and I couldn't figure out why it only did half of the iterations. Of course I had left the i++ loop increment in the code, soooo silly of me. >_< |
| 06:31 | <@Kindamoody> | Serves me right for coding before breakfast. |
| 06:32 | <@Kindamoody> | After breakfast I found it straight away. :P |
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| 07:00 | < maoranma> | lol |
| 07:01 | < maoranma> | Trek should give me his admin status. He's literally never here. |
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| 07:36 | <@maoranma> | TeX -> XHTML -> MOBI |
| 07:36 | <@maoranma> | *headdesk* |
| 07:41 | <@maoranma> | Oh, no, Sigil doesn't do mobi, so it's TeX -> XHTML -> EPUB -> MOBI |
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| 07:49 | <@maoranma> | On the plus side, NP++ is making removing the smartquotes a breeze |
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| 08:41 | <@froztbyte> | Kindamoody: haha, nice |
| 08:43 | <&McMartin> | http://blog.markwshead.com/1148/design-problem/ |
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| 11:21 | <@maoranma> | McMartin. LOL |
| 11:21 | <@maoranma> | Best design ever |
| 11:22 | <@maoranma> | "Customers who purchased this product also purchased: First Aid Only 6? X 9? Instant Cold Compress, 3M Medipore H Soft Cloth Surgical Tape, Nexcare Opticlude(TM) Orthoptic Eyepatch" |
| 11:22 | <@maoranma> | HAHA |
| 11:25 | <@jerith> | McMartin: Nice. |
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| 21:01 | | mode/#code [+o PinkFreud] by ChanServ |
| 21:10 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:12 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-9ecc7891.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:16 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-9ecc7891.as43234.net] has joined #code |
| 21:33 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 21:51 | | Stalker [Z@2C3C9C.B2A300.F245DE.859909] has joined #code |
| 21:58 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 22:31 | | Prince is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 23:08 | | ErikMesoy is now known as Prince |
| 23:27 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 23:55 | | Prince is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| --- Log closed Sun Feb 12 00:00:47 2012 |