| --- Log opened Tue Feb 07 00:00:30 2012 |
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| 03:04 | < maoranma> | Youtube is pissing me off, it won't buffer |
| 03:09 | < maoranma> | Oh, apparently it's a cookie issue |
| 03:29 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 04:39 | < Eri> | Hmm hmm hmm |
| 04:40 | < Eri> | Let's suppose I just scored a sweet job that has Matlab in it |
| 04:40 | < Eri> | Let's also suppose I don't... really... .... know Matlab |
| 04:40 | < Eri> | Any good resources you guy's'd recommend? |
| 04:41 | < Eri> | *guys'd, rather |
| 04:41 | | * Vornicus has never poked at matlab. |
| 04:43 | <&Derakon> | I've done a very little amount of Matlab, and generally had cause to regret it. |
| 04:44 | <&Derakon> | It's one of those languages that grew rather than was designed. |
| 04:44 | < Eri> | Yeah |
| 04:44 | < Eri> | But, it's what's getting used |
| 04:44 | < Eri> | So, it's what I need to learn |
| 04:45 | < Eri> | I can do basic stuff. I know about vectorization, some of the power of matrix manipulation |
| 04:45 | < Eri> | Not much beyond that, though |
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| 05:19 | < maoranma> | blllluh |
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| 06:16 | <@jerith> | Eri: You can look at Octave, which is an open source implementation. |
| 06:16 | <@jerith> | Last time I looked at it it didn't have the pretty GUI and it was missing most of the more exciting libraries. |
| 06:17 | <&Derakon> | So...it's Matlab without any of the things that make Matlab worth using? |
| 06:20 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 06:20 | < Eri> | It's at least a starting point. Is it compatible with Matlab code? |
| 06:23 | <@jerith> | Pretty much. Modulo the missing libraries. |
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| 09:31 | | * McMartin wakes up at 0130 after crashing out at about 1900. |
| 09:31 | <&McMartin> | This is going to do my schedule loads of good, I can tell |
| 09:31 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-83b28186.as43234.net] has joined #code |
| 09:32 | <@TheWatcher> | So, you're working on UK time almost! Welcome to civilisation~ |
| 09:33 | <&McMartin> | Well, no |
| 09:33 | <&McMartin> | I'm still *working* the UK swing shift~ |
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| 12:45 | <@froztbyte> | in a support ticket: "Please add my key to CDN servers, I am the new machine." |
| 12:45 | <@froztbyte> | also: |
| 12:45 | <@froztbyte> | <idnar> http://pastebin.com/cHntmzFC |
| 12:45 | <@froztbyte> | <idnar> what. is. wrong. with. people. |
| 12:45 | | * Tamber gets the list. ;) |
| 12:50 | | * TheWatcher eyes that |
| 12:50 | <@TheWatcher> | ... I don't even |
| 13:07 | <@froztbyte> | TheWatcher: yup. |
| 14:13 | | * TheWatcher eyes hs-minor-mode |
| 14:14 | <@TheWatcher> | I really must get around to fixing the fact that it breaks when parentheticals in function comments exceed one line in perl |
| 14:17 | <@froztbyte> | might I suggest instead just running away screaming? |
| 14:17 | <@froztbyte> | I mean, perl. |
| 14:24 | <@TheWatcher> | Bah! |
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| 18:56 | <@froztbyte> | http://corner.squareup.com/2012/02/socketrocket-websockets.html --- *groan* |
| 18:56 | <@froztbyte> | "Using WebSockets has it's advantages over raw TCP:" <- yo dawg, we put some not-TCP in your socket-thing that goes over TCP but it's still the bestest |
| 18:57 | < maoranma> | lmao |
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| 20:17 | <@Tamber> | "it has its advantages; primarily, that it's more Web 2.0" |
| 20:18 | < maoranma> | And what web are we on now? |
| 20:18 | <@Tamber> | 2.3 beta(TM) |
| 20:18 | <@Tamber> | (Because all the cool people stick a 'beta' label on their web crap!) |
| 20:19 | < maoranma> | It's true |
| 20:19 | | maoranma is now known as Noah{Beta} |
| 20:19 | <@Tamber> | Hee |
| 20:20 | <@Tamber> | Mmmm, web 2.0. |
| 20:20 | | * Tamber goes to huff more paint. ?? |
| 20:20 | <&McMartin> | It's official support for duplexed web pages so that people stop abusing the crap out of chunked transfers. >_> |
| 20:21 | < Noah{Beta}> | Anyone particularly familiar with steganography? |
| 20:26 | <@Tamber> | McMartin, so it's something new for them to abuse? ;) |
| 20:30 | <&McMartin> | It's at least theoretically possible to use it properly! |
| 20:40 | <@froztbyte> | <Vhata> github is down |
| 20:40 | <@froztbyte> | <cocooncrash> Oh noes! |
| 20:40 | <@froztbyte> | <russell> ooer |
| 20:40 | <@froztbyte> | <russell> How are they going to check in the fix for it? |
| 20:40 | <@froztbyte> | and |
| 20:40 | <@froztbyte> | <cocooncrash> $ grep 'Is\|It' transports/http/__init__.py |
| 20:40 | <@froztbyte> | <cocooncrash> # Is it a string? |
| 20:41 | <@froztbyte> | <cocooncrash> # Is it a file? |
| 20:41 | <@froztbyte> | <cocooncrash> # Is it an iterable? |
| 20:41 | <@froztbyte> | <cocooncrash> # It's Superman! |
| 20:41 | <@Tamber> | XD |
| 20:41 | <&McMartin> | Nice |
| 20:44 | <@ShellNinja> | Something I found out recently is while "ubuntu" is "can't configure debian", "debian" is "can't use ubuntu's UI". |
| 20:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | I thought debian was "how do you name packages" |
| 20:46 | | Maze is now known as EvilDarkLord |
| 20:47 | <@ShellNinja> | I don't know that one. Is anything wrong with the way Debian names packages? |
| 20:47 | < gnolam> | Noah{Beta}: what do you want to hide? ;) |
| 20:47 | < Noah{Beta}> | http://www.daz3d.com/ Dunno if anyone is interested, but >$800 of free software |
| 20:48 | < Noah{Beta}> | gnolam: I was curious of the ECR of modern stenography |
| 20:48 | < Noah{Beta}> | Steganography* |
| 20:49 | < Noah{Beta}> | I had the idea of creating a black/white QR code, tiling it, and embedding that image into another image, but was curious if something that simple would survive crop/resize/grey-scaling |
| 20:50 | < gnolam> | Bryce is still around? o_O |
| 20:50 | < Noah{Beta}> | yea, Daz aquired it forever ago |
| 20:50 | < Noah{Beta}> | But I was surprised too when I found out, lol |
| 20:52 | < Noah{Beta}> | Looks like I have a lot to download :\ The download links expire on the 12th, so I'll have to back them up to my external, lol |
| 20:53 | <@froztbyte> | "Free products require a newsletter subscription." |
| 20:53 | <@froztbyte> | I guess I'll just poke at that later |
| 20:53 | < Noah{Beta}> | Dunno how long they're doing it for tbh |
| 20:54 | < Noah{Beta}> | I just used a label "maoranma+daz@gmail.com" |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | ShellNinja: my experiences with Debian have been rather unpleasant, due largely to the fact that (say) 'python' is some horribly outdated version, and you actually want 'python26' or 'python27' or 'python30' or, depending on what you need to run, all of these at once, and then apt-get swallows its own tongue and chokes to death. |
| 20:57 | <@ShellNinja> | I don't think I've had package naming problems. |
| 20:57 | < Noah{Beta}> | I still take the "go directly to distributer" approach, even with Linux |
| 20:58 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 21:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | I prefer not to have to manually install all 6,000 dependencies for whatever I'm trying to run. |
| 21:00 | < Noah{Beta}> | Me neither, unless I'm sure I want it to run |
| 21:20 | < Noah{Beta}> | I suppose what I'm really looking for is a digital watermark that is transparent to the viewer (or manipulator) and resistant to image manipulation |
| 21:21 | <@Tamber> | Not sure it'd be terribly resistant to manipulation, though, your QR-code idea. Resizing'd probably screw it up; depending on how you embedded the info, just re-saving might trash the data... |
| 21:22 | < Noah{Beta}> | Well, that's the idea of using a QR code, because even with some damage, ECR of QR codes are often good enough to still be readable |
| 21:24 | <@Alek> | hm. |
| 21:24 | <@Alek> | I think most digital marks these days get put in a comment area in the file format. whether photo, video, or audio. |
| 21:25 | <@Alek> | not very resistant to manipulation, perhaps, though. :/ |
| 21:25 | < Noah{Beta}> | True, but some programs don't respect EXIF data, or even diliberately remove it |
| 21:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Alek: those aren't really digital watermarks, though - the whole point of stenography is that it should resist format conversions and the like. |
| 21:26 | <@Alek> | noah: I've got a daz3d library building up already. XD |
| 21:26 | | * gnolam chalks up another point for stenography. |
| 21:29 | < Noah{Beta}> | Hmm |
| 21:33 | < Noah{Beta}> | Oh good, I can reset downloads if retries fail |
| 21:33 | < Noah{Beta}> | Having an issue with the content for Bryce 7, lol |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | <froztbyte> Spinach: debian branches |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | <Spinach> froztbyte: debian branches are oldstable (etch), stable (lenny), testing (squeeze), unstable (sid), and experimental |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | <froztbyte> Spinach: debian branches /rust/ |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | <Spinach> froztbyte: debian branches are called "stale", "rusting" and "broken" |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: ^ |
| 21:36 | <@froztbyte> | <froztbyte> Spinach: debian /rockets/ |
| 21:36 | <@froztbyte> | <Spinach> froztbyte: debian is the distro in which nothing is released as stable until you have to shoot rockets at it to stop it from working |
| 21:36 | < Namegduf> | That's kinda dumb |
| 21:36 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 21:37 | < Namegduf> | Debian Testing is relatively current, and Debian Unstable is generally less broken than many rolling release distros- |
| 21:37 | < Namegduf> | I've seen it hold breaking code that Archlinux has pushed out, for example |
| 21:38 | < Namegduf> | It's not very pleasant to do package management while running it, because parts of interdependent packages are updated before each other, so you occasionally need to tell it "Yeah, yeah, I know, don't update those.". But that's a far cry from broken, and not a problem in Testing. |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | well, Ubuntu's universe isn't guaranteed to even work |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | those factoids are mostly in jest, too |
| 21:38 | | * froztbyte runs debian in as many places as possible |
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| 21:40 | <&McMartin> | Debian Stable: As stable as a lump of concrete, and about as useful for IT |
| 21:40 | < Namegduf> | That's equally stupid. |
| 21:40 | < Namegduf> | It's a *brilliant* server OS. |
| 21:40 | < Namegduf> | You know, the one place Linux has a really high server base. |
| 21:40 | < Namegduf> | It's probably one of the most common server operating systems on the planet. |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | Sorry, I can't hear you over the bug reports that I was targeting the bleeding edge Gtk+ 2.10 instead of 2.1 |
| 21:41 | < Namegduf> | (Debian, I mean) |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | Have not yet forgiven |
| 21:41 | < Namegduf> | I dunno why you're running GTK+ on a server |
| 21:41 | <&McMartin> | I don't. |
| 21:42 | < Namegduf> | Doesn't seem very relevant then. |
| 21:42 | <&McMartin> | I wrote something using GTK once and got tons of shit from people who *did* |
| 21:42 | <&McMartin> | Thus making it my problem |
| 21:42 | < Namegduf> | Don't support them, not a problem. *shrug* |
| 21:42 | < Namegduf> | You have to draw a line somewhere. |
| 21:42 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, that's "zero users = zero bug reports, problem solved" |
| 21:42 | < Namegduf> | If all your users are using X on their servers, it may be time to reconsider your target audience. |
| 21:43 | < Namegduf> | (And are exclusively using servers) |
| 21:43 | < Namegduf> | Drawing some kinda line as to what is reasonable to support is not the same thing as getting rid of all users. |
| 21:43 | | * jerith eyes the above about digital watermarking and steganography. |
| 21:43 | < Namegduf> | Do you test on Solaris? |
| 21:43 | <@jerith> | That stuff was my MSc topic. |
| 21:44 | <&McMartin> | Namegduf: Well, the eventual solution was "Gtk doesn't do what I want, and it's faster to recode the entire application in Swing than figure out how to bend PyGtk to my will" |
| 21:44 | <&McMartin> | So I bet that worked pretty well on Solaris |
| 21:44 | <&McMartin> | It also, however, dropped my userbase to zero, so~ |
| 21:44 | <&McMartin> | (This was Blorple) |
| 21:44 | <@Tamber> | McM: Perfect, no bug reports, then. ;) |
| 21:44 | <@jerith> | McMartin: PyGtk is pretty notoriously horrible, though. |
| 21:45 | <&McMartin> | Is it? |
| 21:45 | <&McMartin> | Because GtkParasite is *awesome* |
| 21:45 | < Namegduf> | That doesn't seem like a related decision to the one I suggested of saying "Sorry, don't support Debian Stable- run something more recent. It's a graphical application anyway." |
| 21:45 | < Namegduf> | So it doesn't seem fair to tie the results of that decision to that suggestion |
| 21:45 | <@jerith> | McMartin: Let me rephrase. It's pretty horrible under the hood, and doesn't like to play nice with others. |
| 22:18 | < celticminstrel> | So, does Java have no "join" in the standard library for making a string of an array/list/collection? Or is it just in an odd place where I'd never think to look? |
| 22:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | It probably hsa it somewhere |
| 22:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, stackoverflow says no, you need to roll your own or import a third-party library. |
| 22:22 | < celticminstrel> | Copy-paste time! |
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| 22:52 | < Noah{Beta}> | Hmm, doesn't look like there's a good way to ensure data integrity of any sort through watermarking/steganography on an image. I found a method that works if I have the unwatermarked original and the image can be lined up, so it works through cropping and distortion (if I can replicate the distortion), but color changes that aren't easily reversable (like desaturation) pretty much kill it |
| 22:54 | < Noah{Beta}> | And the work that goes into creating the watermark, then instructing a user to use the orginal and the copy to prove the mark, at that point, it's easier to find the infringer, and hit them with a wench until they admit theft |
| 22:55 | <@Alek> | heh. wench. |
| 23:04 | <@Tamber> | Noah: Hey, if you're going down that route, you don't even need to find the infringer! ;) |
| 23:06 | <@Alek> | just do what the RIAA do and hit someone random until they admit to the theft. >_> |
| 23:08 | < gnolam> | Theft? If they've stolen it, you won't have the original to compare it to anyway. |
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| 23:17 | <~Vornicus> | EA/Maxis did an interesting steganography technique for Spore |
| 23:19 | <~Vornicus> | A critter save file is a PNG; embedded in the low bits in the various channels is the data for the critter. |
| 23:20 | <@Alek> | :O |
| 23:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:26 | < Noah{Beta}> | Vornicus: Yup, but it's very sensitive for resize iirc |
| 23:26 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:26 | <~Vornicus> | It dies in resize, yeah |
| 23:27 | < Noah{Beta}> | gnolam: I guess theft is the wrong word. Unattributed modifications |
| 23:27 | < gnolam> | Thank you. ;) |
| 23:27 | < Reiver> | Android: Is there any way to transfer 'ownership' of a bunch of free apps from one google account to another? |
| 23:28 | < Noah{Beta}> | No, but you can install them to the new account via the website, which is a little faster, if still having to be done one by one |
| 23:30 | < Noah{Beta}> | I suppose the best thing I could ask for is some type of image container that contains any type of image, but has a sort of external exif, and ask people nicely not to write programs that will remove it |
| 23:31 | <@Alek> | could you take a random png and create a critter from that? |
| 23:31 | < Noah{Beta}> | Alek: Not exactly. |
| 23:32 | < Noah{Beta}> | It'd have to be in the proper format, by random chance, that Spore could read |
| 23:32 | <@Alek> | heh. |
| 23:32 | <@Alek> | I'm intrigued by those games that you can insert random shit into and they create whatever for you. |
| 23:33 | <&McMartin> | Audiosurf and Beat Hazard \o/ |
| 23:33 | < Noah{Beta}> | It's sort of a plain-text encoding hidden in the picture itself, and that plaintext is, usually, highly structured, sort of like a xml file <Spore Creature> <Name=Penismonster>, etc |
| 23:33 | <@Alek> | like Monster Rancher, iirc, could create new monsters from other games you'd insert in the PS while it was on. |
| 23:34 | <@Alek> | McM: that's... a little of it, yes. but more like what I said. |
| 23:34 | <@Alek> | and does anyone recall Inner Space? >_> |
| 23:34 | < Noah{Beta}> | You could theoretically extract that info, and inject it into a random PNG, to have a hidden spore creature, but the only use for that I could think of is some type of augmented reality game |
| 23:34 | < Noah{Beta}> | Audiosurf: McMartin ^5 |
| 23:35 | | * Alek loves Audiosurf and Beat Hazard. |
| 23:36 | < Noah{Beta}> | There was a game called NetMonsters that Nightstar used to host the channel for, and I think that it used a method similar to that (or the code was hidden in the HTML, I can't remember, and Phantom LOST the sourcecode for it) |
| 23:44 | < Noah{Beta}> | ]18:44[ [Noah{Beta} PING reply]: 10secs |
| 23:44 | < Noah{Beta}> | unfunfunf |
| 23:44 | <@Alek> | ?_? |
| 23:45 | <@Alek> | who are you unfing? |
| 23:45 | < Noah{Beta}> | my latency |
| 23:45 | <@Alek> | lol |
| 23:55 | < Noah{Beta}> | I find it ironic that I was contemplating pirating Bryce the other day |
| --- Log closed Wed Feb 08 00:00:45 2012 |