| --- Log opened Sun Feb 05 00:00:56 2012 |
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| 00:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's very normal. DVI died like a week after HDMI came out :P |
| 01:03 | | * McMartin bends Make to his will |
| 01:09 | <&Derakon> | Rhamph: and yet it has VGA on there. |
| 01:10 | < Namegduf> | DVI and HDMI are convertable without loss of quality, so I think the idea is that if you don't have one connector shape, you should just have a converter. |
| 01:10 | < Namegduf> | While VGA's a different thing. Also, ouch at using a VGA connector. |
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| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | Hm, apparently this is a GNU Make specialty |
| 01:25 | <&McMartin> | Fun, though. |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | I can generate new includes for my Makefile halfway through the build. |
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| 01:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | VGA did not die. VGA had a faaaar greater footprint than DVI |
| 01:59 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I'd say VGA is still live |
| 01:59 | < celticminstrel> | What's wrong with VGA? |
| 01:59 | <&McMartin> | Starts choking much above 720p |
| 01:59 | <&McMartin> | IIRC |
| 01:59 | < celticminstrel> | Oh. |
| 01:59 | < Namegduf> | It looks awfully fuzzy. |
| 02:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Namegduf: strictly speaking, DVI is compatible with VGA too. The general form has both digital and analog wiring |
| 02:17 | < Namegduf> | Didn't know that, neat. |
| 02:18 | < Rhamphoryncus> | You'll see mention of DVI-D (digital, same as HDMI), DVI-A (analog, same as VGA), and DVI-I (both) |
| 02:19 | <&McMartin> | What is shitty is when you have plugs that are DVI-D only because they will not accept DVI-I connectors. |
| 02:20 | < Namegduf> | I think the summary is: |
| 02:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Yes, that would be annoying |
| 02:20 | < Namegduf> | Hooking up a monitor? |
| 02:20 | < Namegduf> | Be prepared to buy a converter! |
| 02:21 | <&McMartin> | Most DVI plugs are DVI-I |
| 02:21 | | * McMartin has no video converters, and one ridiculous audio converter. |
| 02:21 | < Namegduf> | That's true. |
| 02:21 | < Namegduf> | I have a HDMI to DVI, or the other way around, one. |
| 02:21 | < Rhamphoryncus> | New stuff always has HDMI now, unless it's *really* cheap and VGA only |
| 02:21 | < Namegduf> | For connecting one of my monitors. |
| 02:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And if you're lucky you can find HDMI cables in the dollar store. Hard to find though |
| 02:25 | <~Vornicus> | okay. In order to maintain C1 continuity in a piecewise function I must know which ones are adjacent in that sense. |
| 02:29 | <~Vornicus> | In order to efficiently find adjacency, I should sort my intervals. This gives other advantages; I can do addition and multiplication on sorted intervals in linear instead of quadratic time, and evaluation at points would go to logarithmic time. |
| 02:29 | <~Vornicus> | Also I can check for interval overlap more easily. |
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| 02:36 | <~Vornicus> | Which would be an error checking step. I always hate including error checking though, because there's this whole thing about not getting in the fucking way when the user knows what they're doing. |
| 02:37 | <~Vornicus> | ---on the other hand "This thing contains ambiguities that will resolve differently under slightly different implementations" is kind of an important problem. |
| 02:38 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 02:44 | | * Vornicus pokes at other thoughs |
| 02:44 | <~Vornicus> | thoughts* |
| 02:45 | | * Derakon gets into an argument about the difference between being given something extra for free, and being able to buy something for no cost. |
| 02:46 | <~Vornicus> | wtf |
| 02:46 | <&Derakon> | We're discussing the interactions of two cards in Agricola. |
| 02:47 | <&Derakon> | You can build fences in this game to create pastures in which you can hold animals. Each fence costs 1 wood. |
| 02:47 | <&Derakon> | The "Sawhorse" improvement makes your 3rd, 6th, 9th, etc. fence free. |
| 02:47 | <&Derakon> | There's a card "Fence Deliveryman" that allows you, on a future turn, to build four fences automatically for 2 food. |
| 02:47 | <&Derakon> | The question is, if you have both cards, do you get to build 6 fences for 2 food? |
| 02:47 | <&Derakon> | Or even 5. |
| 02:48 | <&McMartin> | Does Agricola have phasing? |
| 02:48 | <&Derakon> | There's no explicit stack like in M:tG. |
| 02:48 | <&McMartin> | Like, in Dominion, one of those is "Pay X, Gain four fences", and the other is a Buy-phase modifier |
| 02:49 | <&Derakon> | Er, I'm not certain I understand what you're going for. |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | Does Agricola distinguish "Gain" from "Buy" from "Put Into Your Hand" |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | In Dominionese |
| 02:50 | <&Derakon> | Ah. |
| 02:50 | <&Derakon> | The concepts aren't so central to the game, so it's not explicit. |
| 02:50 | <&McMartin> | In shortest form: Is this actually worth arguing over is or Someone Wrong Off Of The Internet |
| 02:50 | <&Derakon> | Which is why there's a discussion about this to begin with. |
| 02:50 | <&Derakon> | The former. |
| 02:51 | <&Derakon> | My stance is that Sawhorse omits the cost when you buy fences normally, which is not what happens with the Deliveryman. |
| 02:51 | <&McMartin> | This is also my reading. |
| 02:51 | <&Derakon> | The opposing stance is that building fences is building fences no matter how you do them, Sawhorse gives you free fences at certain junctures, and thus they do combine to get you extras with the delivery. |
| 02:51 | <&Derakon> | But it's all very nitpicky anyway. |
| 02:52 | <&Derakon> | Just the kind of thing to spend your Saturday evening on~ |
| 02:52 | <&McMartin> | /join #pedantic |
| 02:52 | <&Derakon> | Aww, there's nobody there. :( |
| 02:52 | <~Vornicus> | When all else fails, ask the publisher: I asked Rio Grande several questions about certain shadings of rules in Puerto Rico and got a good response. |
| 02:52 | < Namegduf> | Technically, if you joined, you are there |
| 02:52 | <&Derakon> | D'oh. |
| 02:53 | <~Vornicus> | don't make me /sajoin you there, Namegduf |
| 02:53 | <&Derakon> | Vorn: yeah, I already have the author of the official errata handbook on my side. |
| 02:53 | < Namegduf> | XD |
| 02:53 | <&Derakon> | One of the creators may actually show up and provide some official official clarification. |
| 02:53 | <&Derakon> | But that's just arguing from authority. |
| 02:53 | <&Derakon> | What fun is that~? |
| 02:54 | <~Vornicus> | "rules as intended" are the kind of thing that you can only get from the appropriate authority anyway! |
| 02:54 | <&Derakon> | Well, yes. |
| 02:56 | | * Vornicus needs to play Agricola. Also Dominion. |
| 02:58 | < gnolam> | Both are good games. |
| 02:58 | < gnolam> | The latter massively less complex than the former. |
| 02:58 | <&Derakon> | Dominion is good for a larf, but there are way too many expansions. |
| 02:58 | <~Vornicus> | There are like a dozen expansions for Carcassonne. |
| 02:59 | < gnolam> | Only a few of which are any good. |
| 03:00 | <~Vornicus> | I like I&C; S&K is... badly interfaced. |
| 03:00 | < gnolam> | Or rather... most of them have /something/ good to add, but as a whole, you're better off without them. |
| 03:03 | <&Derakon> | Which reminds me, I picked up a copy of Carcasonne at a garage sale for $2 today. |
| 03:03 | <~Vornicus> | Nice. |
| 03:03 | <&Derakon> | I already had a copy, so...I guess I have a spare now. |
| 03:04 | <~Vornicus> | (er, K&S, earlier. It adds "largest city" and "longest road" to the scoring, which is kind of cool except that there's no way to tell what they're worth and when they change hands built in.) |
| 03:06 | <~Vornicus> | Even without the additional rules, I like having lots and lots of ridiculous tiles. |
| 03:06 | <&Derakon> | ...how would you even track those? |
| 03:06 | <&Derakon> | Special tokens that track the largest one to-date, presumably, but how do you mark ownership with them? |
| 03:06 | <&Derakon> | And yeah, more tiles is always good, considering there are some missing from the basic set. |
| 03:07 | <~Vornicus> | Technically what you /get/ is tiles that are handed to the person that completed them. |
| 03:07 | <~Vornicus> | But there's no on-board tokens or other methods of scoring. |
| 03:07 | <&Derakon> | So how do you track that the road that just got built was longer than the one that was built earlier? Just remember? |
| 03:07 | <~Vornicus> | That's the problem, yeah. |
| 03:08 | <~Vornicus> | K&S is actually one of those microsets, kind of like The River - just a pile of 12 tiles in a little box; no wood pieces or anything. |
| 03:08 | <&Derakon> | What does K&S stand for? |
| 03:08 | <~Vornicus> | King & Scout |
| 03:09 | <&Derakon> | Oh, I can't remember if you saw this earlier. http://apina.biz/55660.png |
| 03:09 | <~Vornicus> | I did. |
| 03:11 | <~Vornicus> | I&C is Inns & Cathedrals: you get a sixth player, large meeples that are worth double, ten "normal" tiles, and then six "inn" tiles and two "cathedral" tiles, which respectively change roads and cities containing them to be worth more finished and nothing unfinished. |
| 03:11 | <~Vornicus> | xordroid seems so depressed. |
| 03:11 | <&Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 03:11 | <&Derakon> | Poor little guy. |
| 03:12 | < gnolam> | Vornicus: the best of the expansions, IMO. |
| 03:12 | <&Derakon> | I can see how the cathedrals would solve the "3 out of 4 players have piled onto a city that's now too big to finish" problem. |
| 03:13 | < gnolam> | The inns don't contribute much, but the cathedrals really change the game. |
| 03:13 | <~Vornicus> | Oh, and 50- and 100-point tiles so you don't have to remember how many times people have gone around. |
| 03:13 | <&Derakon> | Bah, that's easy. |
| 03:13 | <&Derakon> | They go around upright the first time, and the second time 'round they crawl. |
| 03:13 | <&Derakon> | Because they're tired. |
| 03:13 | <&Derakon> | Third time around, they've gotten used to it, so they walk on their heads instead. |
| 03:14 | <~Vornicus> | THe last game I played with the family, my brother and I managed to tie /exactly/, and we shared a 45-point city that, without it, we would have been in last place. |
| 03:14 | <~Vornicus> | (and the last game I played with just Vash she ended up with 157 points, jeez) |
| 03:18 | | * Alek has never played a Settlers-type game. NEVER. |
| 03:18 | <@Alek> | actually, I lie. |
| 03:19 | <@Alek> | some years back, there was a web-based multiplayer Settlers making the rounds. I played a round or two I think? |
| 03:19 | <@Alek> | java, I think it was. |
| 03:19 | < gnolam> | I wouldn't call Carcassone a Settlers-type game. |
| 03:19 | <@Alek> | you know what I mean. <_< |
| 03:19 | <~Vornicus> | Not really~ |
| 03:20 | <&Derakon> | He means "board game that is actually good". |
| 03:21 | <~Vornicus> | heh |
| 03:28 | <@Alek> | I mean token-based resource-gathering game, sometimes with extra attachable boards. |
| 03:28 | <@Alek> | or something like that. |
| 03:29 | | * Alek just had an epic win at Monopoly today. from 5 players he was the only one left. |
| 03:29 | <@Alek> | considering we only play monopoly maybe once or twice a year, and I usually lose, this was great. |
| 03:31 | <~Vornicus> | gneh, monopoly |
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| 03:31 | | * Vornicus is pretty sure all involved has heard his rant about monopoly though, so |
| 03:43 | <@Alek> | not really, no. |
| 03:46 | <~Vornicus> | The problem with monopoly is people who have lost already are having more fun than you, essentially. |
| 03:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | With more games under my belt, I'm no longer convinced that Monopoly is, strictly speaking, a game as opposed to a terrible random narrative generator. |
| 03:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or possibly a very long-winded implementation of Two Up. |
| 03:54 | <~Vornicus> | It's a long-winded, fight-style game; it's got ridiculous amounts of tables - there are, all told, 168 different numbers, apparently chosen arbitrarily, that make up the meat of the game. There's supposedly a trading mechanism but nobody in their right mind would use it. |
| 03:54 | <~Vornicus> | Except in the most desperate of circumstances. |
| 03:56 | <~Vornicus> | The game spends a whole lot of time doing nothing. |
| 03:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | The game spends a lot of time rolling the dice and taking mandatory actions; there's very little decision-making. |
| 03:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | And not even any flavour to make things interesting. |
| 03:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which is why I am of the opinion that you could get the same experience in a fraction of the time by having everyone roll 1d20, high roll wins, ok, let's play something good now. |
| 04:09 | <&Derakon> | Just play Chinatown~ |
| 04:09 | <&Derakon> | Which has all the business ownership and jockeying for position and none of the tedious going around in circles and running out of money. |
| 04:09 | <&Derakon> | Just, after six rounds, whoever has the most cash wins. |
| 04:11 | <~Vornicus> | Heh |
| 04:11 | <~Vornicus> | Isn't Chinatown out of print? |
| 04:11 | <&Derakon> | ;_; |
| 04:11 | <&Derakon> | Yes. |
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| 05:17 | < maoranma> | Wow, I did a search for my icq number, and found a really old user name I used for a very short while, Devoid |
| 05:18 | < maoranma> | Ronin Noah and npbronin, I don't even remember what password I might've used with those, lmao |
| 05:21 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AC2] |
| 05:30 | < maoranma> | Blah, I hate when I get no reply from people craigslist |
| 05:30 | < maoranma> | Either mark you post as sold, or reply saying as such |
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| 15:32 | < gnolam> | ... ah, that explains the slowdown. |
| 15:32 | < gnolam> | I thought it was weird that the screen buffer post processing was actually making a noticeable dent in FPS. |
| 15:33 | < gnolam> | I was accidentally using floating-point buffers everywhere. :P |
| 15:35 | <@Tamber> | Oops. |
| 15:37 | < gnolam> | The dangers of code reuse. |
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| 21:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Woo, forking openttd :P |
| 21:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Question is, does rhamphttd sound like too lame of a name? |
| 21:43 | <@Tamber> | It sounds like the kind of noise one makes when one has a cold. |
| 21:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 21:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Got a better suggestion? |
| 21:45 | <@Tamber> | Not really, no. I suck at naming things. |
| 21:45 | < Ling> | FreeTTD? |
| 21:46 | < Ling> | YAOTTDF? |
| 21:46 | < Ling> | Better suggestions would require asking why you're forking |
| 21:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I don't want to one-up them. Ideally they'd pull my patches back in |
| 21:46 | < Ling> | openttd-Rhamphoryncus |
| 21:47 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So far the developers have largely ignored me |
| 21:47 | < Rhamphoryncus> | One has said my features are wanted, but nothing other than that |
| 21:48 | < Rhamphoryncus> | One small cleanup patch I have submitted already got nothing more than a couple mildly dickish responses |
| 21:49 | < Namegduf> | OpenOpenTTD |
| 21:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 21:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | BetterThanTheOtherTTD |
| 21:50 | < Namegduf> | Do you usually swap Open for Free when starting to accept contributions, or Free to Open? |
| 21:50 | < Namegduf> | If so, FreeTTD could totally be an option |
| 21:51 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I do NOT one to one-up them. This isn't an attempt to be a "real" fork. It's just upstream plus a few of my own patches. openttd-Rhamphoryncus is actually pretty close, but much too long :) |
| 21:52 | < Namegduf> | OpenTTD-Rhenium |
| 21:52 | < Namegduf> | Sadly its symbol is Re, not Rh |
| 21:52 | < Ling> | The -name convention is what kernel forks usually use |
| 21:53 | < Namegduf> | Oh, I see. |
| 21:53 | < Namegduf> | OpenTTd-Rhodium |
| 21:53 | < Namegduf> | *OpenTTD-Rhodium |
| 21:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 21:53 | < Namegduf> | Rhamphoryncus -> Rh -> Rhodium |
| 21:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Maybe openttd-rhamph? That's my login name most places |
| 21:53 | < Namegduf> | Sure. |
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| 22:07 | < Rhamphoryncus> | https://bitbucket.org/rhamph/openttd-rhamph |
| 22:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Not that I have anything on there yet :) |
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| 23:31 | | * Alek gives rhamph some sauteed ramps. |
| 23:31 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 23:49 | < maoranma> | Ooo, an opportunity to get up to 5GB on dropbox free |
| 23:53 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[t-2] |
| 23:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Aaaaaugh. The game version is baked in to the save format (and thus network protocol). In of itself this is good |
| 23:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But, and this is a huge but, it's limited to 15 characters. Fixed-width field. Including the trailing \0. And it's based on hg revision and branch name. |
| --- Log closed Mon Feb 06 00:00:05 2012 |