| --- Log opened Thu Jan 19 00:00:04 2012 |
| 00:00 | < maoranma> | I don't mind having to teach my editor |
| 00:00 | < maoranma> | I've done that with np++ |
| 00:00 | < maoranma> | It has a plugin repository, and all kinds of options for different languages |
| 00:00 | <@himi> | Tamber: sadly, a programming editor is /never/ going to be simple enough to just work without a good deal of fiddling |
| 00:00 | <@jerith> | Tamber: Then you belong with the rest of the pillocks in the shallow end of the internet.~ |
| 00:01 | < maoranma> | Like, I changed, JUST FOR PYTHON, tab indenting to 4-space indenting |
| 00:01 | | * Tamber adds a note to repair 2 sets of sarcasm detectors. |
| 00:01 | <@himi> | Hey, I got that it was sarcastic, I just chose to respond seriously for the education of others ;-P |
| 00:01 | <@Tamber> | :p |
| 00:01 | <@jerith> | Tamber: Note my irony mark. |
| 00:01 | <@himi> | And for my own sense of self-importance, of course |
| 00:01 | < maoranma> | What's sarcasm? |
| 00:01 | <@jerith> | (Which I've been stealing from McMartin.) |
| 00:02 | <@Tamber> | jerith, Ah. I've very rarely seen it used like that. |
| 00:02 | | * maoranma uninstalled sublime text |
| 00:02 | <@himi> | The '~' at the end? |
| 00:02 | <@himi> | That's a nice idea, actually |
| 00:02 | <@jerith> | Well, it's not quite irony. |
| 00:02 | <@jerith> | It's more "I say this in jest, but it still contains several grains of truth". |
| 00:03 | | * maoranma installs vim |
| 00:03 | <@jerith> | Like I said, McM uses it like that and I've adopted it. |
| 00:03 | < gnolam> | himi: on $random_unix_machine, usually whichever of gedit/jedit/that category is at hand. |
| 00:04 | <@jerith> | maoranma: I think you'll find that features for printing are rare in programming editors. |
| 00:04 | < gnolam> | Unless I'm just SSHing in to fix a line in a configuration file or something, in which case nano. |
| 00:04 | < maoranma> | jerith: Except np++? |
| 00:04 | <@jerith> | Compilers struggle to read dead trees. |
| 00:04 | < maoranma> | OCR's have gotten quite good though... |
| 00:04 | <@jerith> | maoranma: I said "rare", not "nonexistent". ;-) |
| 00:05 | < maoranma> | Hmm, VisVim for MS Visual Studio. Sure, I'll add that and NEVER use it |
| 00:05 | <@jerith> | nano's default settings on some machines mangle text. |
| 00:06 | < gnolam> | Yeah. You have to turn off line wrapping. |
| 00:06 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 00:06 | <@jerith> | (It applies word-wrap to any lines you touch, which adds newlines. This is, for obvious reasons, suboptimal.) |
| 00:06 | < maoranma> | Wtf computer, I said open vim, not dwarf fortress |
| 00:06 | <@Tamber> | XD |
| 00:07 | | iodriver is now known as iospace |
| 00:07 | <@jerith> | Inform 7 /and/ DF? I like you more and more. |
| 00:07 | <@himi> | . . . an editor that adds newlines when it's word-wrapping? |
| 00:07 | <@himi> | Without being told to do that explicitly? |
| 00:08 | <@jerith> | himi: It's nano. |
| 00:08 | < maoranma> | I'm white and nerdy |
| 00:08 | <@jerith> | It's a bigger version of pico, which was pulled out of pine, which is a mail client. |
| 00:08 | <@himi> | That would make me uninstall it and rant on any forum I could come across about how shitty it was |
| 00:09 | <@jerith> | Hard-wrapping to seventy-odd cahracters makes perfect sense when you look at the history. |
| 00:09 | <@himi> | For a mail client, yes, but when you pull it out of pine and turn it into a general purpose editor you should /fix/ stupid crap like that |
| 00:10 | <@jerith> | himi: Quite. |
| 00:10 | <@jerith> | This is why I do not use nano. |
| 00:10 | <@himi> | Or, of course, you could just put a big banner up whenever you open it saying "do not use me for anything you care about, 'cause I'm dum" |
| 00:11 | <@jerith> | himi: That's implicit in the four letters you type to start it. |
| 00:11 | <@TheWatcher> | alias nano='nano -w' problem solved~ |
| 00:12 | <@jerith> | TheWatcher: alias nano='emacs ' |
| 00:12 | <@TheWatcher> | Heh. |
| 00:12 | | * himi ponders adding something to the debian nano package that puts in a /usr/bin/dumb link after installing it |
| 00:13 | | * jerith used to work on RedHat systems: alias yuck="sudo yum" |
| 00:14 | <@himi> | Hey, yum is nowhere near as bad as yast |
| 00:15 | <@himi> | If you have to use SuSE, you'll find that being able to install yum is a godsend for your sanity |
| 00:15 | < maoranma> | okay, so VIM can handle my print options well |
| 00:17 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:18 | < maoranma> | But... I can't type esperanto into it, lol |
| 00:18 | < maoranma> | God I'm picky |
| 00:19 | < maoranma> | There's apparently a charmap thing for it |
| 00:19 | < gnolam> | Err |
| 00:20 | < gnolam> | Not really a feature for the editor, is it? |
| 00:20 | <@TheWatcher[T-2]> | Although a better question is why anyone would want to type esperanto~ |
| 00:21 | <@himi> | vim can definitely edit UTF8 files meaningfully, so you shouldn't have any issues that aren't related to entering the text |
| 00:21 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:21 | < maoranma> | TheWatcher[T-2]: Because I like Esperanto |
| 00:22 | < gnolam> | Keyboard mappings should be handled at a lower level than the editor, is my point. |
| 00:22 | < maoranma> | Well, vim seems to use keymaps for that |
| 00:23 | <@jerith> | himi: I've used yast. |
| 00:24 | <@jerith> | Its pain is temporary. yums lasts a lot longer. |
| 00:24 | <@jerith> | But it's 02h30 and I have work tomorrow. |
| 00:24 | < maoranma> | I use a program called Tajpi that handles my replacements for characters, ie cx is ? |
| 00:24 | <@jerith> | So I shall expound upon that at a later date. |
| 00:25 | < maoranma> | G'night jerith |
| 00:25 | <@himi> | Night |
| 00:26 | <@jerith> | http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1759 |
| 00:26 | <@jerith> | maoranma: ^^^ |
| 00:26 | <@jerith> | G'night all. |
| 00:32 | < gnolam> | (Also, I'm with TheWatcher on Esperanto) |
| 00:32 | < maoranma> | meh |
| 00:41 | < maoranma> | Okay, figured it out |
| 00:41 | < maoranma> | Fixedwidth wasn't showing the characters |
| 00:41 | < maoranma> | Fixsys I should say |
| 00:42 | < maoranma> | Dumb fonts |
| 01:18 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:47 | < maoranma> | Having fun with mass notices? |
| 01:47 | <~Vornicus> As always. |
| 01:47 | | * maoranma goes back to reading "The Art of Intrusion" |
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| 05:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | OH GOD WHY: http://codepad.org/8BAzFDfi |
| 05:41 | <@Tamber> | ... |
| 05:41 | <&Derakon> ...why doesn't that write out "phpphp"? |
| 05:41 | <@Tamber> | Because php? |
| 05:42 | <&Derakon> While accurate, that answer is functionally useless~ |
| 05:42 | <@Tamber> | Well, I don't know and don't particularly /want/ to know why PHP is braindamaged in this particular case. ;) |
| 05:42 | <@Tamber> | (Not quite true; there's that sense of morbid curiosity...) |
| 05:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: there's various other ways you can trigger it, and while I don't know the underlying cause, whether it happens or not depends on the whitespace in and around the else-branch. |
| 05:43 | <&Derakon> Oooh, whitespace dependency. |
| 05:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nothing else. |
| 05:43 | <@Tamber> | ...significant whitespace. =.= |
| 05:43 | <&Derakon> It must clearly be as good as Python then~ |
| 05:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Note that PHP is, on paper anyways, not a whitespace-dependent language~ |
| 05:43 | <&Derakon> Right. |
| 05:44 | <@Tamber> | ToxicFrog, neither is it a sanity dependant language, it seems. |
| 05:44 | <&Derakon> It's mostly just a shitty language. |
| 05:44 | <@Tamber> | It's things like this that are why I don't really want to work with it. |
| 05:46 | <@Tamber> | (Every time I think "Oh, I'll just have a look at PHP job postings; I mean, anything to get some money...", what remains of my sanity hurls epithets at me.) |
| 05:52 | <@himi> | I'd have thought that would print out /two/ lots of "php is awesome", on the assumption that the definition of the function isn't dependent on the logical test |
| 05:52 | <@himi> | wait |
| 05:52 | <@Tamber> | There you go, using common sense. |
| 05:52 | <@himi> | Two lots of 'is awesome', with no 'php' |
| 05:52 | <@himi> | The second definition of each function overriding the first |
| 05:53 | <&Derakon> The second shouldn't execute because it's the "else" branch of an "if (true)". |
| 05:53 | <@Tamber> | "...on the assumption that the definition of the function isn't dependant on the logical test" |
| 05:54 | <&Derakon> Ah, but it is. |
| 05:54 | <&Derakon> It's a dynamically-created function. |
| 05:54 | <@himi> | http://codepad.org/VcZYtGYB |
| 05:55 | <&Derakon> Is that actually the output you get? |
| 05:55 | <@himi> | http://codepad.org/pA62N3iD |
| 05:55 | <@himi> | Presumably |
| 05:55 | <@himi> | I mean, I'd assume it's simply calling execute on the chunk of code you paste |
| 05:55 | <&Derakon> I wouldn't make assumptions on how PHP works at this point~ |
| 05:56 | <@himi> | Well, I've always found it to be at least vaguely consistent, if not sane |
| 05:56 | <@himi> | It's behaving as I expected when I indent it sensibly, which suggests that something odd is going on |
| 05:56 | <@Tamber> | Sure, it's consistently bizarre. |
| 05:57 | <@himi> | And just to make my guess a little more likely: http://codepad.org/ZpvpzYRX |
| 05:58 | <@himi> | Still getting just 'is awesome', no 'php' - this implies that the last function definition linked to the name is what gets into the runtime symbol table |
| 06:03 | <@himi> | Of course, that just misses the point of the original bug, which is just plain fucked up |
| 06:03 | <@himi> | and I must go |
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| 11:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm attempting to use version control again. Shoot me now. |
| 11:54 | < gnolam> | ? |
| 11:55 | < Rhamphoryncus> | For whatever reason I've never been able to decipher them |
| 11:55 | < gnolam> | Huh. |
| 11:55 | < gnolam> | So which one are you attempting now? |
| 11:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | At the best of times I'm like a shaman attempting to call the rain. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, fuck if I know why |
| 11:56 | < gnolam> | Ah. You're using a Voodoo Control System. |
| 11:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Well, I started playing openttd again, but it's the ubuntu package. Now I want an updated version and intend to apply one of the make-passengers-less-pointless patches |
| 11:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Which I did before.. 2 years ago. I still have the hg repository. I figure I should just take that, tell it to update, remove any tweaks I had applied, and run |
| 11:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I installed tortoisehg since that's slightly less insane than the command line. Got it to download new revisions, which it lists for me now |
| 11:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And that's it. It hasn't touched my working directory |
| 12:00 | <@TheWatcher> | ... what's wrong with "hg pull" while in your working directory? |
| 12:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | pulling from http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/ |
| 12:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | searching for changes |
| 12:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | no changes found |
| 12:02 | < Rhamphoryncus> | source files are still dated 2009 |
| 12:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | in tortoisehg I can tell there's two different paths of patches. Mine and the upstream since I did mine |
| 12:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | At the very top it has *Working Directory*, which is connected to mine |
| 12:07 | <@TheWatcher> | Tried 'hg update' then? |
| 12:07 | < Rhamphoryncus> | tortoisehg only lets me create a new branch.. command line lets me rename my current branch (might be a new branch), list the current branch name, or list all branch names |
| 12:07 | < Rhamphoryncus> | 0 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files removed, 0 files unresolved |
| 12:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | rhamph@Tetronimo:~/src/openttd/trunk.hg$ hg pull -b default |
| 12:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | pulling from http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/ |
| 12:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | abort: remote branch lookup not supported |
| 12:11 | <@TheWatcher> | Did you branch your local copy when you got it originally (`hg branch` should tell you what your current branch name is) |
| 12:11 | <@TheWatcher> | ? |
| 12:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Yes |
| 12:13 | <@jerith> | "hg pull -u" or "hg pull; hg update" |
| 12:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | jerith: nope, try again :P |
| 12:15 | <@jerith> | Try moving your patches into a patch queue. |
| 12:16 | <@jerith> | (I think patch queues are an extension. They're installed, but not enabled unless you twiddle a config knob.) |
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| 12:18 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I am *NOT* going to try moving and deleting my old patches |
| 12:18 | <@jerith> | Make a backup copy first? |
| 12:19 | < Rhamphoryncus> | No, I mean from prior experience that it's far more likely to fuck things up even more |
| 12:19 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Even if it works it'll likely fuck things up |
| 12:20 | <@jerith> | Patch queues are the hg way do juggle patches. |
| 12:20 | <@jerith> | And it sounds like you need to juggle patches. |
| 12:21 | < Rhamphoryncus> | No, I want to ignore my old patches |
| 12:21 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I just need to switch which branch is active |
| 12:22 | <@jerith> | Ah. |
| 12:23 | <@jerith> | hg update -C <branchname> |
| 12:23 | <@TheWatcher> | (note: that *will* nuke any changes you made) |
| 12:23 | <@jerith> | That will nuke your working directory. Not the other branch. |
| 12:23 | <@TheWatcher> | True |
| 12:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hrm. Worked without the -C |
| 12:25 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So the --help forgets to mention you can use a branch name instead of a revision |
| 12:25 | <@jerith> | Oh, the -C is just to nuke the working dir changes. |
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| 12:26 | <@jerith> | I think it assumes you know that a revision can be a branch name. |
| 12:26 | <@jerith> | (Which it shouldn't do.) |
| 12:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | A revision is number in your local repository. I'm pretty sure in some places you CAN'T mix them |
| 12:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | and hg pull has two different options for revisions vs branches |
| 12:27 | <@jerith> | Ah. |
| 12:27 | | * jerith stabs hg in the groin, then. |
| 12:28 | <@jerith> | I find its default conflict resolution behaviour incredibly hostile. |
| 12:29 | <@jerith> | "hg resolve" nukes your working directory and tries whatever conflict resolution mechanism you've configured it with, which has already failed or you wouldn't still have a conflict. |
| 12:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 12:30 | <@jerith> | The default conflict resolution mechanism is really stupid, too. |
| 12:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | AUGH. So I reported a bug against tortoisehg because Help in the menu dropped you on some specific page, rather than the main docs page. They have OpenID support.. but you need an account (with yet-another-password) to use it. Stupid enough, but look, an RSS option! ... which is the ENTIRE bugtracker, not just that bug. |
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| 12:35 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So, to update my repository to current it took 4 people, half an hour, I hit about 6 usability bugs.. and that was GOOD in my experience. |
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| 13:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (rating -= 90, waiting > 1500) || |
| 13:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (rating += 55, waiting > 1000) || |
| 13:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (rating += 35, waiting > 600) || |
| 13:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (rating += 10, waiting > 300) || |
| 13:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (rating += 20, waiting > 100) || |
| 13:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (rating += 10, true); |
| 13:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | x_x |
| 14:02 | <~Vornicus> Oh that's cute. |
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| 15:30 | < gnolam> | http://www.geekwire.com/2012/coding-fun-microsofts-visual-studio-badges-leaderbo ard |
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| 16:44 | | * Vornicus does silly things to test his code, like passing a polynomial into another polynomial. |
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| 16:57 | <&Derakon> This kind of crap shouldn't be legal: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/msnet4license.png |
| 16:58 | <&Derakon> (That is, the license box that only displays four fucking lines of text. |
| 16:58 | <&Derakon> Especially since the license box could clearly be more than doubled in size without impacting the size of the dialog box! |
| 17:00 | <@TheWatcher> | Ah, microsoft |
| 17:00 | <&Derakon> To be fair, everyone does this shit. |
| 17:00 | <&Derakon> This is just a particularly glaring example. |
| 17:00 | < gnolam> | Also, ALLCAPS, for extra difficult reading. |
| 17:01 | <&Derakon> Windows SDK, I get a reasonably-sized textbox, though it's still not resizable. |
| 17:01 | <@TheWatcher> | You're supposed to print it, y'know~ |
| 17:01 | <&Derakon> Er, there should have been an "I note that if I try to install " at the beginning of that sentence. |
| 17:01 | < Ling> | You should be able to resize *any* window with a scrollbar. |
| 17:04 | <&Derakon> ...gahhhhhh, fuck you Microsoft. |
| 17:04 | <&Derakon> I just want to be able to compile my programs against Python 2.7 64-bit. |
| 17:05 | <&Derakon> The free version of Visual Studio 2008 (which is the required version to build against the Python 2.7 binaries) doesn't have built-in 64-bit support. |
| 17:05 | <&Derakon> Nominally you can install the Windows SDK to work around this on the commandline...but the Windows SDK won't install because I don't have the non-free Visual Studio installed! |
| 17:06 | <&Derakon> Note that we own the non-free version, but only a one-seat license, and I am not gonna run up and down three flights of stairs every time I want to recompile this thing. |
| 17:06 | | abudhabi [abudhabi@Nightstar-d2500f5c.elitter.net] has joined #code |
| 17:06 | <@TheWatcher> | RDP? |
| 17:06 | | abudhabi is now known as AD[Shell] |
| 17:07 | <&Derakon> Also dodgy because the computer it's installed on is a shared resource. |
| 17:07 | <&Derakon> And I'm sure that if I allow Remote Desktopping onto it then people will get their experiments interrupted by other people logging on to check on their file transfers or stuff like that. |
| 17:08 | <&Derakon> But the bottom line is I shouldn't have to put up with this shit. |
| 17:08 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, no, you could use cygwin!~ |
| 17:08 | | * TheWatcher flrrd |
| 17:09 | <@TheWatcher> | (seriously though, you can't use mingw/MSYS for it?) |
| 17:10 | <&Derakon> Not unless I'm willing to rebuild Python and all of the libraries I use for it from scratch. |
| 17:10 | <@TheWatcher> | blegh |
| 17:10 | <&Derakon> Precisely. |
| 17:12 | | * Derakon sighs, goes to install the 32-bit Python 2.7 in the meantime. |
| 17:13 | <&Derakon> Realistically I don't need 64-bit support for this particular program. |
| 17:13 | <&Derakon> But it bugs me to have multiple active Python installs, especially for stupid reasons. |
| 17:14 | <&Derakon> ...ah, I can't have two installers going at the same time. Great. |
| 17:15 | < Ling> | But Microsoft has nothing but the customer's best interests a heart. That's why they're the most secure OS now. |
| 17:15 | < Ling> | (<-- Hasn't installed/used it on a personal machine since... 2007/8?) |
| 17:16 | <&Derakon> We're kinda locked in since all the devices we talk to assume we're running Windows. |
| 17:16 | < Ling> | Yeah |
| 17:16 | <&Derakon> We could probably move the main control program to a Linux install since it only talks to devices by way of other computers, but that doesn't really buy us anything. |
| 17:23 | <@TheWatcher> | And I guess there's no chance of getting your boss to pay for another MSVS install, eh? |
| 17:24 | <&Derakon> Oh, we could do it. |
| 17:24 | <&Derakon> It's not too expensive for educational organizations. |
| 17:24 | <&Derakon> But we shouldn't have to. |
| 17:24 | <@TheWatcher> | (I'm honestly surprised they don't have a site license) |
| 17:24 | | * TheWatcher shrug |
| 17:24 | <@TheWatcher> | I agree, but... MS. |
| 17:26 | | * Derakon gets the 64-bit stuff installed, runs the 64-bit nmake, watches as it invokes the 32-bit compiler. |
| 17:26 | <&Derakon> Aaaaaarrgh |
| 17:41 | <&Derakon> ...okay, I think I got that bit working. Sheesh. |
| 17:42 | <&Derakon> Now I get to start actually making the Python wrapper for a library whose API is described entirely in German. |
| 17:43 | <&Derakon> Though I guess I should be thankful that the header file is commented at all. |
| 17:43 | <@TheWatcher> | Wunderbar!~ |
| 17:44 | <@TheWatcher> | (good luck :/) |
| 17:44 | <&Derakon> (I do have English docs; they're just a) in a separate file, and b) horribly terse) |
| 17:44 | <&Derakon> (Thanks) |
| 18:05 | | AD[Shell] is now known as Number3 |
| 18:10 | | * Derakon eyes SWIG and Visual Studio. |
| 18:10 | <&Derakon> I'm getting "unresolved external symbol" errors for every function that does not have any arguments that are pointers. |
| 18:10 | <&Derakon> What the heck. |
| 18:11 | <&Derakon> ...oh, wait, for every function. |
| 18:11 | <&Derakon> Just the ones with pointers in their argument lists show up after the others. |
| 18:11 | <&Derakon> Okay, that probably has something to do with the "__declspec(dllexport) _stdcall" in front of all the functions, which SWIG doesn't seem to like. |
| 18:13 | <&Derakon> (I note that Microsoft's docs on dllexport/dllimport say what the former does, but not the latter." |
| 18:49 | <&Derakon> ...and after all that, I've now realized that I only have a 32-bit DLL from the third party. |
| 19:22 | | * Vornicus fixes a bunch of silly thinkos in his polynomial code. |
| 19:53 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-5aa18eaf.balk.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:15 | <~Vornicus> such as "any iterator on the coefficients would be infinite" |
| 20:17 | <&McMartin> TheWatcher: Also, until last week or so the MinGW/MSYS version of gcc was so outdated half the stuff that people consider "compiles on GCC" didn't. |
| 21:25 | <&Derakon> Woo, I can talk to the device! |
| 21:25 | <&Derakon> Now if only I knew how to actually get it to do what I want... |
| 21:27 | <&Derakon> On an unrelated note, astonomers have found a planet that's so close to its sun that it's boiling away 100,000 tons of itself every second. |
| 21:27 | <&Derakon> Estimates are it'll be gone completely in a few hundred million years. |
| 21:27 | <&Derakon> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/01/19/a-planet-boils-away-un der-its-blow-torch-star/ |
| 21:45 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 21:55 | | Number3 is now known as AD[Shell] |
| 22:01 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | wait what is this |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | >>> None < False == 0 < True == 1 < {} < [] < '' < '0' < () |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | True |
| 22:05 | <&Derakon> Language? |
| 22:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Python. |
| 22:06 | <&McMartin> Someone's exploiting bool/int coercions |
| 22:06 | | * ToxicFrog would kind of expect a bunch of TypeErrors there |
| 22:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: and set, map, list, and tuple to int coercions, apparently >.< |
| 22:06 | <&Derakon> Hm, I think the strings are going off of their lengths. |
| 22:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Er, s/set//, got confused for a moment about what python's data types are~ |
| 22:07 | <&Derakon> Actually, no. |
| 22:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or they're going off lexicographic sort and the empty string sorts first. |
| 22:07 | <&Derakon> 'aoa' < 'za' is True |
| 22:07 | <&Derakon> Maybe it's alphabetical. |
| 22:08 | <&Derakon> There are some weird rules for casting that come from Python's murky past. |
| 22:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | That doesn't, however, explain why strings are less than the empty tuple, but greater than the empty list, which in turn is greater than the empty dictionary, which in turn is greater than anything in the set of integers. |
| 22:08 | <~Vornicus> Python's murky past includes "things without explicit comparisons compare by type name" |
| 22:08 | <&Derakon> ...ick. |
| 22:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | |
| 22:09 | <~Vornicus> There's a response to this, mentioned iirc yesterday |
| 22:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | In that case, why is 1 < {}? |
| 22:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | (since IIRC the python typename is "dictionary", not "map") |
| 22:10 | <&Derakon> "dict", actually, but yeah. |
| 22:10 | <&Derakon> type({}) |
| 22:10 | <&Derakon> <type 'dict'> |
| 22:11 | <~Vornicus> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat |
| 22:11 | <~Vornicus> Checking on that now. |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Is there a transcript? |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | >>> type(1),type({}),1 < {}, type(1) < type({}) |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | (<type 'int'>, <type 'dict'>, True, True) |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | >>> 'int' < 'dict' |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | False |
| 22:13 | <~Vornicus> "The operators <, >, ==, >=, <=, and != compare the values of two objects. The objects need not have the same type. If both are numbers, they are converted to a common type. Otherwise, objects of different types always compare unequal, and are ordered consistently but arbitrarily." |
| 22:14 | <~Vornicus> Not that I can see, but I can type one up for you. |
| 22:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 22:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | That would be nice, if it's not too much trouble. |
| 22:18 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 22:24 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 22:45 | <~Vornicus> http://paste.ubuntu.com/810156/ |
| 22:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Thankyou |
| 22:49 | <&McMartin> The images are even funnier with the descriptions in it. |
| 22:50 | <&McMartin> What was the context for the quote last night about dynamiting bridges to stop jaywalkers or w/e? |
| 22:50 | <&Derakon> That was neat. Thanks for the transcript, Vorn. |
| 22:50 | <~Vornicus> That quote was in regards to SOPA |
| 22:51 | <~Vornicus> http://wondermark.com/offline-jan-18/ |
| 22:52 | <~Vornicus> "This is like planting dynamite under a busy highway bridge in order to catch fleeing burglars, then handing the trigger to someone who hates cars." |
| 22:53 | < Namegduf> | XD |
| 22:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | And now Symbol is watching it. |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | Damn car hating asshats |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | |
| 23:02 | <@Tamber> | o.o |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | wtf |
| 23:02 | < maoranma> | THAT was interesting |
| 23:02 | <~Vornicus> \o/? |
| 23:02 | <@Tamber> | You've been blacked out for thinking non-approved thoughts! |
| 23:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | kitteh? |
| 23:02 | | * Tamber runs around, screaming |
| 23:03 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has joined #code |
| 23:03 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 23:03 | | * maoranma performs /clear on entire channel |
| 23:05 | < celticminstrel> | ...what on earth did maoranma do? |
| 23:06 | < maoranma> | I got SOPA'd |
| 23:06 | < Namegduf> | Apparently, they don't need SOPA to blackbag people in New Zealand. |
| 23:07 | < celticminstrel> | How'd you get space between your lines? |
| 23:08 | < maoranma> | I dunno, I'm going with the default blame and point to the cat |
| 23:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: er? Eache one of those lines is (512 - protocol overhead) spaces. |
| 23:09 | <&McMartin> Namegduf: Never did - SOPA lets companies do it on their own initiative. |
| 23:09 | < Namegduf> | And bypass the adversarial process, and removes safe habour, yeah |
| 23:10 | < maoranma> | General all around douchebaggery |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Huh. |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have been invited to a Shipwars tournament at the local Google. |
| 23:47 | < maoranma> | ...wut? |
| 23:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | maoranma: Google has an office one city over. |
| 23:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | They're holding an invitation-only Shipwars tournament there next week (each contestant programs a small starship, and then they deathmatch) |
| 23:51 | < maoranma> | I'm jelly |
| 23:56 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 23:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | (apparently it's in the Darth Vader Conference Room) |
| 23:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | (I like their style) |
| --- Log closed Fri Jan 20 00:00:19 2012 |