| --- Log opened Mon Jan 16 00:00:19 2012 |
| 00:00 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 00:16 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:19 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 00:29 | | mode/#code [+o Vash] by ChanServ |
| 00:47 | < maoranma> | celticminstrel: Mac estas malbone. PC estas pli bone. |
| 02:01 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-019eb622.as43234.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 02:19 | | io|BLARGH is now known as iospace |
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| 02:42 | < cpux> | It's okay. I'm still trying to learn how to type on an international keyboard. For the sake of communicating in weird inter-languages with colleagues in offices in Europe. |
| 02:44 | < maoranma> | Make them all learn Esperanto |
| 03:01 | | maoranma [maoranma@Nightstar-411b03a4.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 03:01 | <@Tamber> | So you can /all/ be frustrated to no end! |
| 03:01 | | maoranma [maoranma@Nightstar-411b03a4.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #code |
| 03:04 | < celticminstrel> | ...no, maoranma |
| 03:09 | < maoranma> | celticminstrel: Ne? ?u ne? |
| 03:11 | < celticminstrel> | No. |
| 03:12 | < maoranma> | Sed... Esperanto estas amuzade! |
| 03:21 | < cpux> | No it isn't. |
| 03:23 | < maoranma> | Pfft, ?ojomortigisto. |
| 03:52 | | * Kazriko tries to decypher that one. |
| 04:02 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 04:11 | < maoranma> | Joyslayer |
| 04:11 | < maoranma> | Killjoy. |
| 04:24 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
| 04:32 | < Eri|STECSfJLA> | Is there a way to force google to respect case? |
| 04:32 | | Eri|STECSfJLA is now known as Eri |
| 04:32 | < Eri> | Like, I've got some spec. sheets in front of me that refer to charging current as CmA |
| 04:33 | < Eri> | Searching for that returns a lot about Certified Management Accountants, but nothing about my usage |
| 04:35 | <@himi> | Try googling 'charging current CmA' |
| 04:35 | < Eri> | Yeah, I used something like that and got a hit |
| 04:41 | < celticminstrel> | Does Google Verbatim respect case? |
| 04:42 | < Eri> | That's the special option hidden in a corner of the search options? Let me check |
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| 04:43 | < Eri> | Hmm, I can't even find the option |
| 04:44 | | * Eri does a search on how to do a search |
| 04:45 | < Eri> | Nope. It still doesn't care about case |
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| 04:56 | < Eri> | Ha! Shows how well I was reading that document. Turns out I had the answer in front of me the whole time, in the definitions section of this report |
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| 14:55 | | * TheWatcher stabs opera while yelling "When I tell you to reload the fucking stylesheet, I mean 'reload the fucking stylesheet', not 'blithely use the one in the sodding cache'" |
| 14:55 | < gnolam> | It still does that? |
| 14:57 | <@jerith> | Add more meta keys to your "refresh me harder" chord? |
| 14:59 | <@TheWatcher> | jerith: I've tried everything up to, and including, all ctrl, shift, and alt keys at once. It still refuses to reload it unless I clear everything |
| 14:59 | <@TheWatcher> | It was actually behaving well for a while, there. |
| 15:00 | <@jerith> | TheWatcher: Kill it with fire. |
| 15:02 | <@TheWatcher> | The vastly irritating part? Shift-reload will force it to send another request for the non-existent favicon.ico file, but it doesn't even send a request for the .css to possibly check whether it might have expired. |
| 15:08 | <@jerith> | :-( |
| 15:12 | <~Vornicus> that seems unawesome. |
| 15:30 | <@jerith> | Quite. |
| 15:32 | <@TheWatcher> | That's certainly one way to put it |
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| 16:36 | | mode/#code [+o Vash] by ChanServ |
| 16:57 | | * TheWatcher args, hairpulls at this code |
| 16:57 | <@TheWatcher> | how is this being called in a loop, there is no sodding loop that calls these functions?! |
| 17:01 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 17:24 | | * Vornicus pokaes vaguely at code. |
| 17:26 | < maoranma> | Uh, is your style sheet cached by the server? I had an issue like that once with some forum software |
| 17:28 | < maoranma> | gonna go check my student portal for some python books |
| 17:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Nope. |
| 17:28 | < maoranma> | if you have any recommendations, that would be awesome |
| 17:29 | | * Vornicus learned python from the tutorials. |
| 17:30 | < maoranma> | http://docs.python.org/tutorial/ <- ? |
| 17:31 | <~Vornicus> that, yes |
| 17:34 | < maoranma> | So many Python books |
| 17:36 | <@TheWatcher> | If it helps narrow things down, I always tend to lean towards O'Reilly for such things. |
| 17:39 | < maoranma> | Yea, books24x7 has Beginning Python: Using Python 2.6 and 3.1 |
| 17:58 | | jeroid [jerith@687AAB.5E3E50.F8C097.45AC7B] has joined #code |
| 18:01 | < gnolam> | Back when I was still suckered into doing web stuff, I held off testing anything in Opera until I'd tested everything else and it was time to upload it to the server. |
| 18:01 | < gnolam> | Just because of the overly aggressive caching. |
| 18:02 | < gnolam> | Never found a reliable way around it. |
| 18:05 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|cooking |
| 18:05 | | * Vornicus examines his plan file. has no idea what he's up to in some of these places. |
| 18:05 | < gnolam> | ... now this is just a wonderfully bizarre solution: http://www.taswegian.com/MOSCOW/rasa.html |
| 18:05 | < gnolam> | Want! |
| 18:13 | <@TheWatcher> | That is truly odd |
| 18:14 | <@TheWatcher> | Ingenious, but odd |
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| 18:20 | | jeroid [jerith@687AAB.5E3E50.F8C097.45AC7B] has joined #code |
| 18:22 | < jeroid> | gnolam: Does that predate nixie tubes? |
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| 18:30 | | * Vornicus fiddles with euler 60 instead. Apparently doing pregeneration is actually worse than useless. |
| 18:31 | < jeroid> | I must do some Euler again. |
| 18:31 | <~Vornicus> oh, fuckyeah |
| 18:31 | <~Vornicus> Memory error! |
| 18:32 | | * jeroid offers Vornicus an Alzheimers. |
| 18:33 | < gnolam> | jeroid: nope :) |
| 18:34 | < gnolam> | That thing is "ca 1970-1973". |
| 18:34 | < gnolam> | Which just adds to the charm. |
| 18:37 | < jeroid> | Didn't they already have seven segment display by then? |
| 18:37 | < jeroid> | And VFD? |
| 18:39 | <~Vornicus> gnah, it feels like there should be a better way to do this. |
| 18:39 | < jeroid> | There is. |
| 18:39 | < jeroid> | But I'm not going to tell you how. |
| 18:39 | | * Vornicus patpats jeroid |
| 18:46 | < gnolam> | Exactly! |
| 18:47 | < gnolam> | But someone still went "Let's go with the spinning cylinder. I want to see if it works." |
| 18:51 | | Kindamoody|cooking is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:53 | < gnolam> | (That's the neat thing about Soviet stuff. With no profit in mind, they could try some really weird things.) |
| 18:55 | < gnolam> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJcOq5sLxPo <- huh. So that's what the guy who made "Ports of Call" is up to these days. |
| 18:58 | <~Vornicus> awesome. |
| 18:58 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 18:59 | < jeroid> | Vorn: I have a task for you. |
| 18:59 | <~Vornicus> ? |
| 18:59 | < jeroid> | Find the curvature of a B-spline at a given point. |
| 19:00 | <~Vornicus> Ah, a good one. |
| 19:01 | < jeroid> | And then integrate it over the range affected by a control point. |
| 19:01 | <~Vornicus> Okay, let's see. |
| 19:01 | < maoranma> | You know, I could write something that works like a class in mIRC, but I've literally never done so |
| 19:02 | < maoranma> | Well, aliases sort of work like that I guess |
| 19:03 | | * Vornicus does some hunting, finds a function for curvature of a parametric curve. |
| 19:03 | < maoranma> | But there is a way to turn an alias into an identifier |
| 19:04 | | * Vornicus then hunts up the function for tangential angle. That's important too. |
| 19:04 | < maoranma> | Sounds important I tell you whut |
| 19:05 | < jeroid> | maoranma: Why would you want to? |
| 19:05 | < maoranma> | I wouldn't, just an observation |
| 19:06 | < jeroid> | (That's a question, not a dismissal.) |
| 19:06 | < maoranma> | Well, I suppose if I needed to I could. I guess most of my projects in mIRC scripting have been too small to deal with it |
| 19:07 | <~Vornicus> woo, (x'y'' - y'x'') / (x'^2 + y'^2)^(3/2) |
| 19:07 | < jeroid> | Vorn: I found one that used first and second derivatives. |
| 19:07 | < jeroid> | Yeah, that one. |
| 19:07 | <~Vornicus> RIght, got that far. |
| 19:08 | < jeroid> | I'm not sure I've correctly differentiated the spline. |
| 19:08 | < maoranma> | Are we past reticulating them now? |
| 19:08 | <~Vornicus> Oh yes. |
| 19:09 | <~Vornicus> Okay, I have to figure out the spline's function. We can split it into piecewise beziers, right, have you succeeded at that? |
| 19:09 | < jeroid> | The only method I found skipped some steps I can't work out, and assumes a clamped spline. |
| 19:10 | < jeroid> | I've done that, but I'm not sure we want to do the smoothing on the Beziers. |
| 19:12 | < jeroid> | I'm also using a shortcut that only works for quadratic splines. |
| 19:12 | <~Vornicus> What you might end up doing - and this is why this step takes a long time - is dropping to beziers to find the curvature (because finding curvature on beziers is relatively easy) and then hopping back up to the original to do that. |
| 19:13 | <~Vornicus> er, to adjust points. |
| 19:16 | < jeroid> | The shortcut for quadratic splines means that the Bezier control points are at the spline control points. |
| 19:16 | < jeroid> | And the Bezier endpoints are at the spline knots. |
| 19:17 | <~Vornicus> I'm personally still confused at how the spline knots get their locations. |
| 19:18 | | * Tamber ties knots in Vornicus' splines. |
| 19:18 | <~Vornicus> Part of this is that I haven't actually done the math and code enough to follow it around. |
| 19:21 | < jeroid> | The knots are points in the parametric domain (which is normalised to [0,1]) that divide it into segments which are influenced by different control points. |
| 19:25 | <~Vornicus> Oh, I see what's going on now. |
| 19:25 | <~Vornicus> I think. |
| 19:28 | <~Vornicus> THe knots define points at which different control points come in and out of influence; we use those recursive basis functions to define where each one comes in. |
| 19:29 | < jeroid> | You use de Boor's algorithm to get the coordinates for a given input value. |
| 19:29 | < jeroid> | Yes. |
| 19:32 | <~Vornicus> Okay. So, between any two knots I can define a cubic (we're working in cubics, right?). |
| 19:33 | <~Vornicus> Or rather, a parametric cubic, which is to say that both x(t) and y(t) are cubics. |
| 19:33 | <~Vornicus> Then /those/ I can do curvature analytically. |
| 19:36 | | jeroid [jerith@687AAB.5E3E50.F8C097.45AC7B] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:36 | <~Vornicus> But I do not think that whatever comes out of there will be integrable directly; that ^3/2 up there doesn't help, let's see what I can do. |
| 19:36 | < maoranma> | I wonder if SNES games can display unicode... |
| 19:37 | < maoranma> | Might have to modify a font table or something |
| 19:37 | <~Vornicus> There are some SNES games that have done japanese. |
| 19:37 | <~Vornicus> You don't get any free fonts on SNES. |
| 19:39 | <@iospace> | http://www.regretsy.com/2012/01/16/seven-women-with-stupid-shit-on-their-heads/ |
| 19:39 | <@iospace> | yes |
| 19:39 | <~Vornicus> And your RAM and cart size are very small; you get 16 megabytes to play with, combined. |
| 19:39 | <@iospace> | that third image is exactly what you think it is |
| 19:40 | | jeroid [jerith@687AAB.5E3E50.F8C097.45AC7B] has joined #code |
| 19:40 | | jeroid [jerith@687AAB.5E3E50.F8C097.45AC7B] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 19:40 | < maoranma> | I think the pheasant wing one is quite clas*snrk*sy. |
| 19:41 | | * Vornicus goes back to poking at the spline thing. |
| 19:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | maoranma: in practice, SNES games have no concept of "character encoding"; character display is roll-your-own with whatever bitmapped font table the game needs. |
| 19:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which might be a japanese character set, or a european one, or include weird custom symbols for plot or optimization reasons, or... |
| 19:48 | < maoranma> | yea, it's been years since I've done it, so I'm remembering rather slowly |
| 19:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said, there's nothing (other than memory limitations) stopping you from writing a unicode display engine and character table to run on the SNES. |
| 19:49 | < maoranma> | I don't need so much, I'd be adding 6 characters |
| 19:49 | < maoranma> | Need to find a working copy of Mario Is Missing |
| 19:53 | | * Vornicus eyes de boor's algorithm, which is well-explained nowhere. |
| 20:01 | <~Vornicus> also it would help if I had actual test data! |
| 20:18 | <~Vornicus> Also it would help if I knew how to animate anything. |
| 20:19 | < maoranma> | stick figures? |
| 20:19 | | * Vornicus patpats maoranma. |
| 20:20 | < maoranma> | did I do good? |
| 20:21 | <~Vornicus> no. |
| 20:21 | < maoranma> | aww |
| 20:26 | | * Vornicus writes .... a class that's a polynomial. |
| 20:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | maoranma: what are you trying to do? |
| 20:32 | | * Vornicus gives it addition, subtraction, multiplication, and (number-only) division tools. |
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| 20:44 | < maoranma> | wtrf |
| 20:44 | < maoranma> | ToxicFrog: I wanted to translate some games into Esperanto |
| 20:50 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-8697fea9.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: I <3craft Vorn!] |
| 20:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unicode is way overkill, then |
| 20:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Just replace the character table with the character set you need |
| 20:59 | < maoranma> | Yea, like I said, I wouldn't need so much |
| 20:59 | | * Vornicus kind of wishes for static typing right about now. |
| 21:01 | < maoranma> | ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? |
| 21:01 | < maoranma> | That's what I would need to add to do both english and esperanto |
| 21:01 | < maoranma> | So I'd have to add twelve characters |
| 21:05 | <~Vornicus> Man, compared to french, that's a walk in the park. |
| 21:11 | <@jerith> | Vornicus: Quadratic, not cubic. |
| 21:12 | <@jerith> | (Which is handy, because the TrueType fonts I eventually want to generate are quadratic.) |
| 21:13 | <~Vornicus> Oh. Well, good, cuz quadratic is actually easier! But I'm still working on the understructure. |
| 21:14 | <~Vornicus> I can get a ridiculously long way with algebra. |
| 21:14 | <@jerith> | Can you differentiate a spline? |
| 21:14 | <~Vornicus> Yes I Can. |
| 21:15 | <@jerith> | I got stuck trying to fiure out how to solve a differential equation on a recursive function space. |
| 21:15 | <~Vornicus> You build it piecewise, like I'm doing. |
| 21:15 | <@jerith> | Assuming I haven't mangled all the terminology. |
| 21:15 | <~Vornicus> And yeah, you're blowing up the terminology. |
| 21:16 | <~Vornicus> You're taking the derivative of a recursively-defined function. |
| 21:16 | <~Vornicus> also I think this is the first time I've actually used __call__ |
| 21:16 | <@jerith> | N_i,n(u) = f(u)N_(i,n-1)(u) + g(u)N_(i+i,n-1)(u) |
| 21:17 | <@jerith> | When I differentiate that, I get N_(i,n-1)(u) and N'_(i,n-1)(u). |
| 21:18 | <@jerith> | Which looks like a differential equation. |
| 21:18 | <~Vornicus> You should look at the "derivative of a B-Spline" page. It's amazing. |
| 21:19 | <@jerith> | Except I couldn't get any further without doing it at specific values of n. |
| 21:19 | <@jerith> | I looked at that. |
| 21:19 | <@jerith> | That assumes a clamped spline, which I don't have. |
| 21:19 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 21:19 | <@jerith> | So I was trying to derive it understand it better. |
| 21:21 | <@jerith> | I have that implemented, but the second derivative gives me a B-spline of degree 0, which I have to special-case in my de Boor implementation. |
| 21:22 | <@jerith> | I /think/ what I have makes sense, but I didn't get as far as checking the curvature numbers against the output image to make sure. |
| 21:24 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 21:24 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 21:24 | <@jerith> | The problem is that I've had to modify it slightly to make it work with non-clamped splines and I don't understand it well enough to be confident that I haven't broken something by doing that. (Or by not doing something else that I don't know about.) |
| 21:28 | <~Vornicus> I don't see how you might have needed to modify it for non-clamped splines. |
| 21:28 | <~Vornicus> The general case on the top is right for all b-splines. |
| 21:29 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:29 | <@jerith> | Vornicus: Which page are you talking about? |
| 21:30 | <@jerith> | I worked from http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/COURSES/cs3621/NOTES/spline/B-spline/bspline-derv.h tml |
| 21:30 | <@jerith> | And if you want test data, my repo has a little tools to extract some from the unit tests. |
| 21:31 | <~Vornicus> Right. Equations 4 and 5 are all you need. |
| 21:31 | <~Vornicus> Or rather 3 and 4. |
| 21:33 | <~Vornicus> It gets kind of funny on high multiplicity knots though, you'll find that knots of multiplicity p actually eat values so they're not needed any more. |
| 21:33 | <@jerith> | Yes, but then you need to drop knots. |
| 21:34 | <@jerith> | I've dropped first and last (as they say), but that leaves me with dangling ends. |
| 21:34 | <@jerith> | Which I /think/ is okay, but I don't have the math to confirm. |
| 21:44 | <~Vornicus> I think it's safe, let me do the math. |
| 21:46 | <@jerith> | I think it's safe, because it doesn't actually change the domain. |
| 21:48 | <~Vornicus> Yeah, that... should be safe. |
| 21:51 | <~Vornicus> YOu end up with one less control point and one smaller degree; this means you have to drop two knots, and you'll find that you're not looking at two of the knots when you do your calculations: 0 and n. |
| 21:51 | <~Vornicus> er, m. |
| 21:52 | | * jerith nods. |
| 21:53 | | * jerith tries a little Portal from laptop-in-bed (which is unlikely to work very well, but it's worth a shot) and then sleep. |
| 21:53 | <~Vornicus> Yeah no. Mouse is practically required. |
| 21:54 | <@jerith> | Vornicus: I'm reasonable with the trackpad on this thing. |
| 21:54 | <@jerith> | I've got almost as much accuracy as with a mouse, but rather less speed. |
| 21:55 | <@jerith> | And Portal tends not to be action-hero stuff. More puzzley. |
| 21:55 | <@jerith> | If you could explain how that spline differentiation works at some point, I'd appreciate it. |
| 22:05 | | SchoolPhox [8e684915@Nightstar-36f67fd0.mibbit.com] has joined #code |
| 22:07 | < SchoolPhox> | So, riddle me this. I'm trying to avoid errors in the equation x/(x+1) - 1, for large values of x. Will multiplying the first term by the denominator's conjugate avoid that? |
| 22:08 | < SchoolPhox> | Err, actually, nevermind. I should have actually simplified my terms, to see that it becomes 1/1 - 1 |
| 22:09 | < SchoolPhox> | Oh, shoot, I thought I was in math |
| 22:09 | <~Vornicus> Jesus christ, why am I implementing a significant portion of a computer algebra system here. |
| 22:10 | < celticminstrel> | I managed to get through Portal with a trackpad, as I recall. |
| 22:10 | < celticminstrel> | Though I don't recall very well... it's possible I broke down and plugged a mouse in. |
| 22:12 | <~Vornicus> Especially when doing the double fling I needed to aim better than the mouse let me. |
| 22:13 | <~Vornicus> trackpad* |
| 22:56 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 22:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:01 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has joined #code |
| 23:01 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 23:10 | | * jerith gave up on the Portalpaults. |
| 23:11 | <@jerith> | Not because of the trackpad. I need a better keyboard angle than laptop-in-bed. |
| 23:15 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] |
| 23:46 | < maoranma> | Yea, I need some type of lapdeskthing for laptoping in bed |
| 23:52 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| --- Log closed Tue Jan 17 00:00:34 2012 |