| --- Log opened Sat Dec 24 00:00:41 2011 |
| 00:03 | | * Vornicus hugs his notebook. So much easier to figure out the cases when you're doing them on paper. |
| 00:06 | <~Vornicus> Especially when hte two different cases you were agonizing about are in fact the same thing except that one is degenerate. |
| 00:06 | < jerith> | http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1641/itsfinetrustme.png |
| 00:07 | <~Vornicus> >_< |
| 00:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:17 | < TheWatcher[T-2]> | ... dumbass |
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| 01:21 | < AD[Shell]> | http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1641/itsfinetrustme.png |
| 01:21 | < AD[Shell]> | Argh. |
| 01:25 | < iospace> | http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwkzvk2zHi1qbj55uo1_500.jpg |
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| 05:29 | <~Vornicus> Gnah, hate dealing with circular structures. |
| 05:42 | | * Vornicus works on the "remove degenerate edges" part of merging two polygons. |
| 06:00 | <~Vornicus> on the other hand this piece of code has given me this wonder: result[a+1:a+1] = rotated_second[1:-1] |
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| 22:39 | < ToxicFrog> | Dammit, windows. Have liveCDs already. |
| 22:39 | < ToxicFrog> | I don't want to install windows on this laptop to play something only to then find out that it doesn't have enough beef for it. |
| 22:40 | < Ling> | There's a program to make Windows LiveCDs |
| 22:40 | < Ling> | BartPE IIRC |
| 22:41 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, there's a bunch, but they're all crippled, based on the windows preinst environment |
| 22:41 | < ToxicFrog> | No hardware accelerated graphics, for example, which is kind of important given what I want it for |
| 22:46 | < Ling> | Ah, see, this is why I don't use it ever. |
| 22:46 | < ToxicFrog> | If only I could do that~ |
| 22:47 | < Ling> | Everytime I'm like "it can't be as bad as I remember", I find out that my memories tend to skew themselves so that they're actually more pleasing than what happened. |
| 22:48 | <~Vornicus> The enrichment center would like to remind you that android hell is a real place where you will be sent at the first sign of defiance. |
| 22:49 | < ToxicFrog> | 7 is a huge improvement over XP, but if I could get away without using it ever I would ditch it in a heartbeat. |
| 22:49 | < ToxicFrog> | But I enjoy gaming too much. |
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| 22:55 | < Attilla> | Neither wind nor a fish? A bit belated but hey |
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| 23:08 | < McM[xmas]> | If "you have to install your video drivers" is an act of trauma so extreme you've blotted it from your memory, how on Earth do you survive using anything more recent than a PS2 |
| 23:09 | < Ling> | No, the entire GUI is fucked up beyond reason |
| 23:10 | < Ling> | Like dialogs that aren't resizable but have scrollbars |
| 23:11 | < McM[xmas]> | That makes it beat both Lion and GNOME 3~ |
| 23:12 | < Ling> | GNOME is just as shitty, except at least it has edge snapping and full window grabbing/resizing. |
| 23:12 | < Ling> | IIRC it also lets you get a sane focus model |
| 23:12 | < Ling> | ... and actually has workspaces |
| 23:13 | < McM[xmas]> | By "sane focus model" I assume you mean "I type my password into the wrong terminal window if the table shakes", which I do not happen to consider a feature~ |
| 23:13 | < Namegduf> | Huh? |
| 23:13 | < Namegduf> | Focus-follows-mouse is default on GNOME? |
| 23:13 | < McM[xmas]> | No, but you can do it. |
| 23:13 | < McM[xmas]> | Though maybe you can't in GNOME 3, which removed a fuckton of config options. |
| 23:13 | < Namegduf> | Ah. |
| 23:13 | < Ling> | Wow, your desk must be pretty shitty if it shakes often enough for that to be an issue |
| 23:14 | < McM[xmas]> | I like high mouse sensitivities. |
| 23:14 | < McM[xmas]> | Also, I can activate laptop touchpads via pure biotic force, with the sole exception of MacBooks, and I'm not sure what the difference is there. |
| 23:14 | < Ling> | Yeah... I diable those |
| 23:14 | < McM[xmas]> | Ha ha, that's adorable |
| 23:15 | < Namegduf> | I do enjoy focus follows mouse |
| 23:15 | < McM[xmas]> | Usually you can only disable everything BUT that |
| 23:15 | < Namegduf> | But I am a tiling WM guy |
| 23:15 | < McM[xmas]> | I use the keyboard for focus changes more often than not. |
| 23:15 | < Ling> | Really? All four laptops I've had let me disable it, the latter three even have it as an Fn combo |
| 23:16 | < Ling> | Namegduf: wmii FTW |
| 23:16 | < Ling> | ... or whatever you use |
| 23:16 | < Namegduf> | Which means Windows is awkwardly limited for me, makes multitasking a bore because multiple windows onscreen at once is annoying, relatively- but GNOME and OS X are exactly the same. |
| 23:16 | < McM[xmas]> | Ling: All the ones I've had either had no alternatives available, or has a trackpad and a trackpoint and only let you disable the latter |
| 23:16 | < Namegduf> | XMonad here. |
| 23:16 | < Namegduf> | I have two very different configurations; one on my desktop, and one on my netbook. |
| 23:16 | < Namegduf> | My netbook does this neat thing where opening a second window sizes both windows to 2/3rds width, overlapping in the centre, with whichever has focus on top. |
| 23:17 | < ToxicFrog> | McM[xmas]: this one has a trackpad and a mouse clit and both can be independently disabled. |
| 23:17 | < ToxicFrog> | My last one just had a trackpad and that could be disabled. |
| 23:17 | < McM[xmas]> | ToxicFrog: Modelnumber please so I can get my office to put in a purchase order~ |
| 23:17 | < McM[xmas]> | (I was using a relatively venerable ThinkPad in this case) |
| 23:17 | < ToxicFrog> | I can't remember the last laptop I used that didn't have a disableable trackpad, actually, and even the ones that don't have a keystroke or BIOS option for it generally manifest it in some way that lets you disable it in X. |
| 23:17 | < Namegduf> | That plus heavy use of workspace shortcuts reduces the productivity loss due to reduced screen space impeding multitasking (or stuff like looking at documentation beside code, etc) |
| 23:17 | < ToxicFrog> | (Thinkpad T-61, which they no longer make) |
| 23:18 | < McM[xmas]> | (grump) |
| 23:18 | < Namegduf> | I use a different layout when covering a workspace with terminals, though. |
| 23:18 | < McM[xmas]> | (OK, my thinkpad was a 40-something) |
| 23:18 | < ToxicFrog> | (I had to get this one off-lease, they only make 16:9 models now :/ ) |
| 23:19 | < McM[xmas]> | OS X 10.7 has a lovely thing where scrollbars are invisible unless in use and there is no indication if all the stuff visible in a window is all the stuff there. |
| 23:19 | < McM[xmas]> | By "lovely" I mean "god damn it, Zombie Steve, what were you *thinking*" |
| 23:19 | < TheWatcher> | ipadipadipadipad~ |
| 23:20 | < McM[xmas]> | The ipad doesn't default-size to hiding stuff. |
| 23:20 | < Namegduf> | A relative recently asked someone I know if they should buy an iPad, was recommended to buy a laptop before they talked about it with me |
| 23:20 | < Namegduf> | Asked them what they did |
| 23:20 | < Namegduf> | "Oh, just browsing and FarmVille." "Oh. The iPad won't do FarmVille." |
| 23:21 | < McM[xmas]> | I'm skeptical of that, but I guess they *could* be being idiots and writing FarmVille in silverlight or something. |
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| 23:21 | < Namegduf> | Flash. |
| 23:21 | < Namegduf> | iPad does not do Flash. |
| 23:21 | < McM[xmas]> | Aha. |
| 23:22 | < McM[xmas]> | ... Android tablet, then? |
| 23:22 | | * McM[xmas] now lives in a dream world where he rarely has to distinguish between Flash and HTML5 jackassery. |
| 23:22 | < ToxicFrog> | And yeah, these days, I just can't tolerate not having multiple vdesks, SFFM, dockable status indicators, and a dropdown shell on any computer that I'm using as a computer (as opposed to as a gaming console). |
| 23:22 | < Namegduf> | I guess they could. But a laptop was suggested already but works too. |
| 23:22 | < McM[xmas]> | Pretty hefty price difference, right? I guess unless it's a netbook. |
| 23:23 | < TheWatcher> | McM: "distinguish between Flash and HTML5 jackassery" - as in they're both as given to jackassery? |
| 23:23 | < Namegduf> | I'm not sure. |
| 23:24 | < McM[xmas]> | TheWatcher: It's possible to do non-jackassery in HTML5, but HTML5 jackassery replaces Flash. |
| 23:24 | < TheWatcher> | Progress!~ |
| 23:24 | | * McM[xmas] is annoyed that Hex Inverter doesn't seem to work right on his phone, but isn't sure what's going on with it. |
| 23:25 | < McM[xmas]> | Something about it is making the browser ignore zoom controls. |
| 23:25 | < McM[xmas]> | Or reinterpret them as "new window" |
| 23:25 | | * TheWatcher really should look into html5 stuff some time |
| 23:25 | < Ling> | Too bad diveintohtml5.com is dead now |
| 23:26 | < McM[xmas]> | I'm not actually sure how I adapted to lack-of-vdesks, but I've gotten used enough to it now that I almost never touch the things anymore. |
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| 23:27 | < Namegduf> | I use them constantly, but as part of my tiling WM workflow. |
| 23:27 | < McM[xmas]> | I do a horrible hybrid of tiling and non, which I expect I could mutated into tiling-plus-vdesk |
| 23:27 | < Ling> | Having 10 I can easily switch to has made the lack of them painfully notable |
| 23:27 | < Namegduf> | vdesk is just virtual desktop == workspace, right? |
| 23:27 | < Ling> | Yes |
| 23:27 | < McM[xmas]> | Yeah |
| 23:27 | < Namegduf> | XMonad has them as a core thing |
| 23:27 | < Namegduf> | You have no minimising |
| 23:28 | < Ling> | WMII has the same |
| 23:28 | < ToxicFrog> | I've never used a tiling VM |
| 23:28 | < Namegduf> | You replace by sending stuff you don't want to another workspace you're not currently using |
| 23:28 | < ToxicFrog> | I usually just map 1 app == 1 workspace |
| 23:28 | < McM[xmas]> | I technically have. |
| 23:28 | < Namegduf> | The result is that you basically organically grow alternative workspaces |
| 23:28 | < Ling> | Bottom left is just a list of "tabs" with windows in them. |
| 23:28 | < McM[xmas]> | ToxicFrog: That's too ipad-y for my taste~ |
| 23:28 | < Namegduf> | I use one app, one workspace sometimes, for things which are screen-space heavy, like my email client. |
| 23:28 | < ToxicFrog> | McM[xmas]: the ipad is a poser, I've been doing this since 1992~ |
| 23:29 | < Namegduf> | Oh, also my music player. |
| 23:29 | < Namegduf> | But mostly because that has nothing else that wants to be onscreen at the same time. |
| 23:29 | | * McM[xmas] usually has reference window on the left, text editor on the right, and the command shell replacing one or the other as needed; with IM, the IRC terminal, and the music player as "popups" |
| 23:29 | < Namegduf> | For virtually anything else I'm doing, it is better to have it offscreen. |
| 23:30 | < Namegduf> | My desktop workflow is two monitors |
| 23:30 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, I generally have the reference window and text editor on adjacent vdesks, so it's one keystroke to switch between them. |
| 23:30 | < ToxicFrog> | IRC is in yet another vdesk. |
| 23:30 | < McM[xmas]> | Yeah, that drives me up the wall; I need them simultaneously visible |
| 23:30 | < Namegduf> | XMonad uses Win+<num> by default. |
| 23:30 | < ToxicFrog> | (the music player lives in the systra) |
| 23:30 | < ToxicFrog> | (and the shell is another keystroke independent on which desk I'm on, since I use guake) |
| 23:30 | < Namegduf> | IRC + browser by standard is on one workspace for me; browser is reference sometimes. |
| 23:31 | < Namegduf> | The other is "whatever I am actually doing" |
| 23:31 | < Namegduf> | IRC is 80 column width |
| 23:31 | < McM[xmas]> | I'm pretty sure I could use XMonad |
| 23:31 | < Namegduf> | Full height |
| 23:31 | < ToxicFrog> | mine is currently, let's see |
| 23:31 | < Namegduf> | I use a layout which assigns terminal windows that when in the main position. |
| 23:31 | < Namegduf> | I used to have a smaller monitor and a big monitor |
| 23:31 | < ToxicFrog> | IM - IRC - editor - git-gui |
| 23:31 | < McM[xmas]> | But the thing I'd want it for, Win7 added as a basic gesture while destroying edge snapping. |
| 23:31 | < ToxicFrog> | email - browser - browser |
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| 23:31 | < Namegduf> | Was always neat to see the browser resize with the IRC window staying the same when switching it between them. |
| 23:32 | < McM[xmas]> | Now I get cranky when I can't do it in OS X 10.6~ |
| 23:32 | < Namegduf> | (I did this as standard when shoving it onto the littler one to put a movie on the big) |
| 23:32 | < ToxicFrog> | - bittorrent |
| 23:33 | < McM[xmas]> | ... now that you mention having done it since 1992 |
| 23:33 | < McM[xmas]> | Anyone else here remember DOSSHELL.EXE? |
| 23:33 | < McM[xmas]> | curses-style tiling WM! |
| 23:33 | < Namegduf> | XD |
| 23:33 | < McM[xmas]> | So, uh, actually, I *did* have experience with those. |
| 23:34 | < Namegduf> | XMonad is, I think, a wonderful tool, just hard to use. It's basically a framework to build a WM, not a WM |
| 23:34 | < Namegduf> | Your configuration file is the thing compiled to produce your final executable |
| 23:34 | < ToxicFrog> | McM[xmas]: I didn't actually use anything DOS-based until, like, 1996, so~ |
| 23:34 | < Namegduf> | So you pull in layout modules and define the behaviour you want by stacking layouts |
| 23:35 | < Namegduf> | A reload of the config actually is a restart with current state transparently serialised and loaded into the new instance (and it handles errors smoothly, by cancelling the termination of the old one and showing an error message) |
| 23:36 | < Namegduf> | For me, a tiling WM is the biggest reason for using Linux as my standard environment. |
| 23:36 | < McM[xmas]> | XMonad is on my list of "things it might be fun to mess with" |
| 23:36 | < McM[xmas]> | However, my world is one where I don't get to *have* a standard environment. |
| 23:36 | < McM[xmas]> | With two exceptions - both of which involved device drivers - all the code I've written in the past decade has had to be tri-platform. |
| 23:39 | < Namegduf> | Well, I don't either, really. |
| 23:39 | < Namegduf> | In that I have to work with Windows |
| 23:39 | < Namegduf> | But I can pick one to use when working most of the time, at least in my own time. |
| 23:52 | | * Vornicus should really get his thing rendering in something other than pov-ray. |
| 23:59 | <~Vornicus> why the crap I picked POV-Ray to render, I don't know. |
| --- Log closed Sun Dec 25 00:00:58 2011 |