| --- Log opened Tue Nov 22 00:00:30 2011 |
| 00:16 | < Noah> | So who's good with Python? |
| 00:16 | < celticminstrel> | Somewhat? |
| 00:17 | < McMartin> | Lots of people |
| 00:17 | < McMartin> | I only have about ten minutes, but I'm a fair hand with it |
| 00:17 | < McMartin> | Vorn is superb, but isn't here at the moment. |
| 00:19 | < Noah> | I'm not looking for anyone at this time, but next quarter classes, the Intro to Programming is working in Python, and something called Raptor |
| 00:21 | < celticminstrel> | There's also Derakon. |
| 00:21 | < celticminstrel> | Who also isn't here, apparently. |
| 00:21 | < celticminstrel> | And me, I suppose. <_< |
| 00:21 | < celticminstrel> | 3 |
| 00:22 | < McMartin> | Noah: If you want a leg up, the official Python tutorial is pretty excellent. |
| 00:22 | < McMartin> | http://docs.python.org/tutorial/ |
| 00:22 | < Noah> | Ooh, thanks. |
| 00:23 | < McMartin> | Python is the BASIC of this era, in all the good ways and very few of the bad ways. |
| 00:23 | < Noah> | 10: print "DUR" 20 goto 10 |
| 00:23 | | * McMartin firmly believes everyone should know at least the basics of it, for when Excel isn't the right tool for a custom ad-hoc computation. |
| 00:23 | < McMartin> | In python, that would be |
| 00:23 | < McMartin> | while True: print "DUR" |
| 00:24 | < Noah> | And C is for(;;) { print "DUR }? |
| 00:24 | < Noah> | I forget C print syntax |
| 00:24 | < Alek> | erf. |
| 00:24 | < McMartin> | C would be |
| 00:24 | < McMartin> | #include <stdio.h> |
| 00:24 | < Noah> | Oh, right, stdio.h |
| 00:24 | < McMartin> | int main(int argc, char **argv) { while (1) { printf ("DUR\n"); } return 0; } } |
| 00:25 | < McMartin> | But probably spread out over more lines. |
| 00:25 | | * Alek ponders. |
| 00:25 | < McMartin> | Python also works as a scripting language, so you don't need to define functions or anything if you don't happen to need them. |
| 00:25 | < Alek> | any of you ever participate in the Obfuscate C contest? |
| 00:25 | < Noah> | Well, there's a new Obfuscation contest coming up, lol |
| 00:25 | | * Alek high-fives Noah |
| 00:26 | < McMartin> | And then, in Scheme: (letrec ((lol (lambda () (display "DUR") (newline) (lol)))) (lol)) |
| 00:26 | | * Noah follows up with a bro-bump |
| 00:26 | < Alek> | pffft |
| 00:27 | < McMartin> | And, looks like boarding is about to begin |
| 00:27 | < McMartin> | Later, all |
| 00:27 | | McMartin is now known as McM[travels] |
| 00:28 | < Noah> | Anyone played with Inform 7? |
| 00:29 | < AD[Shell]> | Pretty sure it's fairly popular around here. |
| 00:30 | < McM[travels]> | Hi, I'm Michael Martin, you may recall me from such extensions as Quip-Based Conversation and Unicode Interrogation. |
| 00:30 | < McM[travels]> | (Two full-size works, a few speed-IFs, and some well-regarded extensions.) |
| 00:31 | < McM[travels]> | Since I happen to know you're also active on the ifMUD, it has an #I7 channel as well. |
| 00:31 | | * Noah bro-bumps McM[travels] |
| 00:32 | < McM[travels]> | > BUMP FIST |
| 00:32 | < Noah> | Hey, you're in ifMUD too |
| 00:32 | < Noah> | I see you there, all zoned out |
| 00:33 | < Noah> | And I'm in I7 already |
| 00:33 | < Noah> | Also clubfloyd, watching everyone play Taco Fiction was good stuff, lol |
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| 00:50 | < ToxicFrog> | I've noodled around with I7 but haven't released anything in it. |
| 00:51 | | * Vornicus has released a complete i7 game! |
| 00:53 | <~Vornicus> --granted it was one simple puzzle, but it was complete. |
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| --- Log closed Tue Nov 22 03:22:03 2011 |
| --- Log opened Tue Nov 22 03:22:16 2011 |
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| 03:38 | < sshine> | celticminstrel, what does it do? |
| 03:38 | < celticminstrel> | No idea, it was McMartin that mentioned it... |
| 03:41 | < Ling> | I think he defined it in that line. |
| 03:42 | | * sshine is experimenting with dynamic programming in Haskell. |
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| 05:41 | < celticminstrel> | ...wait, did he? |
| 05:44 | | ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 05:46 | < McM[travels]> | celticminstrel: Yes, I defined lol in there. |
| 05:46 | < McM[travels]> | I could have called it loop but that would have looked like a command I didn't define. |
| 05:47 | < McM[travels]> | The function "lol" would print the line out, and then call itself as the last thing it did. |
| 05:47 | < McM[travels]> | In Scheme if the last thing you do is call a function, it actually compiles it into a GOTO. |
| 05:49 | <~Vornicus> so, um |
| 05:50 | <~Vornicus> 10 PRINT "lol" 20 GOTO 10 |
| 05:50 | < McM[travels]> | (define (lol) (display "lol\n") (lol)) (lol) |
| 05:53 | < celticminstrel> | Ohh, letrec+lambda ends up defining a function? |
| 05:55 | < McM[travels]> | Yeah, letrec is "let, but recursion allowed" |
| 05:56 | < McM[travels]> | lambda is basically "function literal" in JavaScript. |
| 06:07 | < celticminstrel> | ...oh right, lambda in Python is a bit different. <_< |
| 06:27 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:28 | < Noah> | McM[travels]: I got bored and made a terrible IF http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7783089/Inform/Projects/Squirt%20Materials/Release/play. html |
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| 12:37 | | * AD[Shell] has been playing gnome-games so much he has found a bug. |
| 12:38 | < Tamber> | Oh? |
| 12:39 | < AD[Shell]> | When you play Mahjongg, you can get into a situation where there aren't any more matches. You get the option of shuffling the tiles. |
| 12:39 | < AD[Shell]> | However, it doesn't check afterwards if the shuffling has produced a setup that has any matches. |
| 12:39 | < Tamber> | Hmm. |
| 12:39 | < AD[Shell]> | So on two occasions, I got shuffled states that don't contain matches, and which I can't reshuffle. |
| 12:47 | <@EvilDarkLord> | Is it supposed to be 100 % soluble? |
| 12:47 | <@EvilDarkLord> | If yes, file a bug report. |
| 12:48 | <@EvilDarkLord> | *solvable |
| 12:49 | < AD[Shell]> | I have filed a bug report. I do this because the behaviour seems odd, having no further prompts, merely setting before you an unsolvable setup. Hint button doesn't work, going back and reshuffling brings about the same unsolvable setup. |
| 12:49 | < AD[Shell]> | A "whoops, you lose" prompt would have been acceptable. |
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| 14:43 | | * TheWatcher pokes the channel, wonders if anyone knows whether any other languages provide equivalents for perl's trailing modifiers (eg: print "something" if(condition); print "something else" unless(condition); ++$foo while(condition); etc) |
| 14:48 | < TheWatcher> | hrm, ruby does, it seems, but it's the only one I can find. |
| 14:48 | < celticminstrel> | Aren't they functionally identical to leading modifiers? |
| 14:48 | < TheWatcher> | Yeah - 'print "something" if(condition);' == 'if(condition) { print "something"; }' |
| 14:49 | < TheWatcher> | (I use both in my perl, depending on the situation. Sometimes it reads better as one or ther other) |
| 15:14 | < Ling> | PHP can |
| 15:15 | < Tamber> | "...but only on every third Tuesday, and if you've got the right amount of dribbly candles and mouse blood." |
| 15:16 | < Ling> | Either that or it's just boolean short-cut abuse |
| 15:17 | | ErikMesoy1 is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 15:29 | | * celticminstrel ponders... given a list of possibly-overlapping lists, how to merge the overlapping ones to remove the redundancy of the overlap? |
| 15:30 | <~Vornicus> Do they need to maintain order? |
| 15:30 | < celticminstrel> | Um... I think so, yeah. |
| 15:31 | <~Vornicus> Tricky. |
| 15:31 | < celticminstrel> | ...oh. Yes they do. |
| 15:31 | <~Vornicus> The tool you need is called "topological sorting" |
| 15:31 | < celticminstrel> | Ooh, really? |
| 15:31 | < celticminstrel> | Sounds like something I can go look up. |
| 15:31 | <~Vornicus> Yes. GOod huinting. |
| 15:32 | < TheWatcher> | Ling: '<?php $x = 0; print "something" if($x); ?>' is a syntax error, accorsing to php 5.3.8 |
| 15:32 | < TheWatcher> | *according |
| 15:33 | < celticminstrel> | I think it's just boolean shortcut abuse in PHP. |
| 15:33 | < Ling> | Yeah, I've seen functionThatCanFail() or die("blah"); |
| 15:33 | < TheWatcher> | Yeah, that's entirely different |
| 15:33 | < Ling> | Which I've also seen in PErl so I got it all mixed up |
| 15:33 | < Ling> | Both are annoying to read though |
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| --- Log closed Tue Nov 22 16:24:18 2011 |
| --- Log opened Tue Nov 22 16:24:25 2011 |
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| 20:10 | < gnolam> | Ooh, Humble Introversion Bundle |
| 20:18 | < gnolam> | Worth it just for Uplink, if you haven't played it before. |
| 20:56 | < sshine> | is there an in-place stable sort in O(n lg n)? |
| 20:56 | < sshine> | someone asked on #haskell, and I just don't know. |
| 21:10 | <@Tarinaky> | I have a Haskell exam on Friday... |
| 21:14 | < sshine> | Tarinaky, interesting. |
| 21:14 | < sshine> | I had one two weeks ago. |
| 21:14 | <@Tarinaky> | Open book, but no laptops. |
| 21:15 | < sshine> | huh. |
| 21:15 | < sshine> | sounds weird... a haskell exam, and you're not supposed to write code? |
| 21:15 | <@Tarinaky> | Heh. Pen and paper exam :p |
| 21:15 | <@Tarinaky> | Computer Science and functional programming is older than computers after all :p |
| 21:15 | < sshine> | I personally don't mind those exams, but I find them weird when you have the option of producing a program the real way. |
| 21:18 | < Tamber> | Sounds like my IT course. "You need to develop an application to do ${X}. ...then print out page after page after page of screenshots, because the examiners are still stuck in the fucking stone age, technologically" |
| 21:20 | < AbuDhabi> | Same thing during my studies. |
| 21:20 | <@Tarinaky> | Naaah. Project work they mostly just seem to want class diagrams and descriptions. |
| 21:20 | <@Tarinaky> | The code is submitted electronically. |
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| 21:27 | < celticminstrel> | So, stuff is not being displayed. |
| 21:27 | < celticminstrel> | This is bad, since it's due tonight. |
| 21:27 | < Tamber> | Oh dear. |
| 21:28 | < celticminstrel> | ... |
| 21:28 | | * celticminstrel stabs Eclipse... why must you be dumb and cache the state of the filesystem! |
| 21:29 | < Tamber> | o.0 |
| 21:29 | < Tamber> | Butbutbut, what if there's delay in accessing the filesystem! Gotta have something to show the user! |
| 21:29 | < Tamber> | *runs* |
| 21:29 | < celticminstrel> | ...oh wait, I forgot to move that back. |
| 21:29 | < celticminstrel> | Agh okay technically my fault. |
| 21:29 | < celticminstrel> | ANYWAY |
| 21:30 | < celticminstrel> | I do have glutPostRedisplay after adding a point, so it's not that. |
| 21:32 | < celticminstrel> | And the points are within the window boundaries... |
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| 22:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | sshine: the "in place" requirement of sorting is funny. You can cheat it by preallocating your list as larger, giving enough temporary space for the sort |
| 22:06 | < celticminstrel> | Why do you need temporary space? |
| 22:07 | < Rhamphoryncus> | celticminstrel: it depends on the algorithm |
| 22:07 | < celticminstrel> | Hm, I suppose I should try googling reasons why stuff might not be displaying... :/ |
| 22:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Merge sort, for example, you iterate two sorted lists and combine them together into a third output list. |
| 22:08 | < TheWatcher> | ls -la |
| 22:09 | < TheWatcher> | ... that would be the wrong window |
| 22:09 | < Tamber> | Maybe. |
| 22:09 | < Tamber> | :) |
| 22:09 | < TheWatcher> | Well, I didn't get a file list back, so it must be ;P |
| 22:10 | < celticminstrel> | XD |
| 22:10 | < Tamber> | Oh, /fine/. Here's your damn file listing: . .. .kshrc >:| |
| 22:10 | < celticminstrel> | I've been doing a lot of wrong window stuff lately, but that's just between different IRC windows in the same channel... <_< |
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| 22:21 | < AbuDhabi> | How does one change the MAC address on an interface under Debian? It is allegedly quite easy. |
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| 22:30 | < Tamber> | "ifconfig <interface> hw ether <address>" |
| 22:33 | < AnnoDomini> | Thank you. |
| 22:33 | < AnnoDomini> | What happens when two devices with the same MAC try to connect to the same AP? |
| 22:33 | < Tamber> | Things break, I think. |
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| 22:36 | < AnnoDomini> | How scientific. ;) |
| 22:36 | < Tamber> | Hey, I'm not a networks guy. ;) |
| 22:36 | < Tamber> | I /think/ neither of them will be able to connect, or stay connected. |
| 22:39 | < celticminstrel> | I wish I had at least an idea of what's wrong... :/ |
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| 22:56 | < celticminstrel> | Aha! Apparently disabling either the depth test or the face culling fixed it. |
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| 23:04 | | * Derakon arghs at work. |
| 23:05 | < Derakon> | I've spent the last two days transferring a set of PCI (and one ISA) cards from an ancient decrepit computer to a new one, reinstalling drivers, etc. |
| 23:05 | < Derakon> | Now everything's starting up okay, except that every time we try to call out to a specific library we get a TypeError because the wrapper code can't convert from a Python int to a u8, as near as I can tell. |
| 23:06 | < Derakon> | And recompiling the wrapper code takes...well, I started this twelve minutes ago and it's still going. |
| 23:06 | < Derakon> | I don't know what the fuck it's doing but whatever it is, it's wrong. |
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| 23:10 | < Ling> | Sounds like quality all around |
| 23:10 | < Derakon> | (16 minutes now and still not done) |
| 23:11 | < Derakon> | I could install Visual Studio on a faster computer -- my "build computer" is a piece of shit -- but that would only give maybe a factor of three improvement. |
| 23:11 | < Derakon> | ...hm, wonder if it's a swap problem. |
| 23:11 | < Derakon> | Build computer is a Pentium 4 2.4GHz single-core, 1GB RAM. |
| 23:12 | < Derakon> | No, Task Manager shows the compiler as pegging the CPU, which wouldn't be happening if it were thrashing. |
| 23:12 | < Derakon> | Not to mention I can't hear the hard drive seeking. |
| 23:12 | < Derakon> | (And the compiler's memory footprint is only 76MB) |
| 23:14 | | * TheWatcher updates his wikis to MW 1.18rc1, finds some interesting undocumented changes, arghs |
| 23:16 | < Derakon> | 22 minutes... |
| 23:17 | < TheWatcher> | Time to install a crank handle on that thing and start turning~ |
| 23:17 | < Derakon> | Heh. |
| 23:18 | < Derakon> | Hm, there's only 16 unique functions in the library that we call. I might possibly speed things up by trimming down the set of functions that we wrap for access in Python. |
| 23:20 | < Derakon> | Total compile time: 26 minutes. |
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| 23:49 | < celticminstrel> | ...uhhh... the points aren't quite appearing where I click. :/ |
| 23:49 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 23:52 | < Derakon> | Well, even a minimal file is still taking, at this point, at least two minutes to compile. Argh. |
| 23:52 | < Derakon> | Why in blazes does this take so long anyway? |
| 23:53 | < Tamber> | Hey, you can only sacrifice chickens so quickly! |
| 23:53 | < Noah> | And finding them with enough blood is harder than you think |
| 23:55 | < Noah> | Also, the specs on your build computers...they...are just...amazing |
| 23:55 | < Derakon> | You laugh, but a coworker routinely refers to sacrificing chickens at a small stepped pyramid we have in the quad, whenever things are going wrong. :\ |
| 23:55 | < Derakon> | Noah: academic setting. We use whatever's lying around. |
| 23:55 | < Ling> | There's a secret: distcc |
| 23:56 | < Noah> | My laptop would be a better build environment, just saying |
| 23:56 | < gnolam> | ... so /that's/ what the small pyramid in the radiation physics courtyard is for. |
| 23:57 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-14eb6405.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 23:57 | < gnolam> | "I take the pigeon into my study; |
| 23:57 | < gnolam> | I refresh the chalk circle around my old Dell 310, |
| 23:57 | < gnolam> | hang wards at each corner of the monitor, |
| 23:57 | < gnolam> | and do what is needful with the pigeon." |
| 23:58 | < Noah> | Pigeons is tasteh |
| 23:59 | < Derakon> | I wouldn't want to eat anything that lives in the city. |
| 23:59 | < gnolam> | (Neil Gaiman - Cold Colors) |
| --- Log closed Wed Nov 23 00:00:18 2011 |