| --- Log opened Mon Nov 14 00:00:18 2011 |
| 00:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 01:56 | < ToxicFrog> | aagh, google, FUCK YOU |
| 01:59 | < Eri> | Yup |
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| 02:15 | < ToxicFrog> | I wanted to paste a link to premake. |
| 02:15 | < ToxicFrog> | I ended up pasting a huge link to google with the link to premake embedded in it somewhere. |
| 02:15 | < ToxicFrog> | And it only does this sometimes! |
| 02:16 | < ToxicFrog> | Most of the time I can right-click-copy-link and get the actual link! |
| 02:42 | | Finerty is now known as Vornicus |
| 02:52 | < sshine> | ToxicFrog, I wonder why it only happens some of the time. |
| 02:53 | <@Tamber> | Because, if it happened all the time, it wouldn't surprise people. |
| 03:10 | <@Derakon> | It happens to me consistently, and it still surprises and pisses me off. |
| 03:10 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 03:11 | <@Derakon> | Because you right-click some text that is the URL, and what is copied to your buffer is not the URL. |
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| 05:03 | < sshine> | hmm |
| 05:04 | | * sshine is grading exam answers in functional programming, and this one struck me. |
| 05:05 | < sshine> | he's "solved" the entire set of assignments without using recursion. for all assignments involving lists (most), he solves them (incorrectly) for lists with exactly 4 elements, and otherwise throws a WithoutSignificance exception. |
| 05:06 | < sshine> | and instead of pattern matching his way to four list elements, he uses Standard ML's List.nth(xs, 1) syntax to a horrible extent. |
| 05:07 | <@Tamber> | "struck you"? Like, say, an airborne brick? :p |
| 05:08 | <@McMartin> | WithoutSignificance exception? |
| 05:14 | < sshine> | McMartin, like, when you're doing matrix multiplication and your matrices don't have exactly the dimensions 3x2 and 2x3, they are WithoutSignificance. |
| 05:15 | < sshine> | McMartin, or when verifying that a predicate holds for a list, and it doesn't have exactly four elements in it, the result is Without Significance. :) |
| 05:15 | < sshine> | Tamber, sort of! I mean, the guy's followed a course for seven weeks, and there is not one recursive function. |
| 05:16 | <@Tamber> | Oh dear. |
| 05:16 | | * Tamber hides klompen's code, shifty-eyes. |
| 05:16 | <@Tamber> | :p |
| 05:17 | < sshine> | who's klompen? |
| 05:17 | <@Tamber> | https://github.com/TamberP/Klompen |
| 05:17 | <@Tamber> | I swear, once I make it /work/, I'll clean the code up! |
| 05:18 | < sshine> | do you have a blog that uses it? |
| 05:18 | <@Tamber> | I'll be changing mine over to use it when I've finished adding a few things. |
| 05:19 | < sshine> | I just edit my HTML and use WordPress for the more active and multi-user blogs. |
| 05:19 | <@Tamber> | (Pages that let you show posts by tag, an index page to show the top 10 or so posts, an RSS feed, that sort of thing. :) |
| 05:19 | < sshine> | do you know WERC? |
| 05:19 | <@Tamber> | I don't like manually bashing out HTML; that's what /the computer/ is for. |
| 05:19 | <@Tamber> | WERC? |
| 05:19 | < sshine> | http://werc.cat-v.org/ |
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| 05:20 | <@Tamber> | Huh. Neat. |
| 05:20 | <@Tamber> | I'm aiming for "all the generation is done on my desktop, so I don't have to run CGI/PHP/etc on the server"~ |
| 05:20 | < sshine> | yeah, WERC is all static as well. |
| 05:21 | < sshine> | I used to fancy publicfile as a webserver, but I do like dynamic content. |
| 05:22 | < sshine> | (publicfile is DJB's webserver) |
| 05:23 | < sshine> | when looking at DJB's slides, I think people couldn't even compromise him with a PDF file. |
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| 05:24 | <@Tamber> | *chuckle* |
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| 15:04 | < k-work-sn> | god i love short circuiting in code :P |
| 15:10 | < k-work-sn> | i knwo some people probably find it cheap but when you need as little code as possible it's nice |
| 15:13 | <~Vornicus-Latens> Short circuiting for side effects is Generally Considered Evil |
| 15:14 | < sshine> | what are short-circuits; gotos and exceptions? |
| 15:15 | < k-work-sn> | sshine: lets say you have an if(x and y) |
| 15:15 | < k-work-sn> | if x is false, the statement will be false, so why evauluate y? |
| 15:15 | < k-work-sn> | or if(x or y) if x is true the if will be true and the value of y won't matter |
| 15:16 | < sshine> | k-work-sn, ahhh. of boolean expressions. |
| 15:16 | < k-work-sn> | yeah |
| 15:16 | < k-work-sn> | Vornicus-Latens: i'm doing if(x == null || x->y == -1) |
| 15:17 | < sshine> | k-work-sn, I think that's somewhat neat. |
| 15:17 | < k-work-sn> | :P |
| 15:17 | < sshine> | not as neat, but also not as cryptic as those fallthrough switch statements |
| 15:18 | < k-work-sn> | heh |
| 15:18 | <~Vornicus-Latens> SHort circuiting for non-side effects, like shown there, are Generally Considered The Way To Do It. |
| 15:18 | < k-work-sn> | Vornicus-Latens: so you're saying i'm doing it right? |
| 15:18 | <~Vornicus-Latens> Yes. |
| 15:18 | < k-work-sn> | :P |
| 15:20 | < k-work-sn> | how would one use it for side effects? |
| 15:21 | < sshine> | if (x == null || x = 42) |
| 15:21 | <~Vornicus-Latens> like that, among other things |
| 15:21 | < sshine> | essentially, if the short-circuited expression changes the state of the program beyond increasing the PC. |
| 15:22 | < k-work-sn> | ah |
| 15:23 | < sshine> | could be useful... if (x == null || x = some_function() || x = another_function()) { x might have one of two values, or still be falsy; } |
| 15:24 | < sshine> | I like languages where assignment is not an expression that returns the assigned value. |
| 15:24 | < sshine> | people always write hackish code with that. |
| 15:31 | <@jerith> | I often wish for assignment to be an expression in Python. |
| 15:35 | < k-work-sn> | heh |
| 16:00 | <@Tarinaky> | I did once write an expression in Java that was while( some_method() ) {} |
| 16:00 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not sure how much of a sin this was. |
| 16:01 | < k-work-sn> | Tarinaky: apart from using java? ;) |
| 16:01 | <@Tarinaky> | It was a Java lab... As part of structured academic learning. |
| 16:01 | <@Tarinaky> | So the Java is excusable. |
| 16:01 | <~Vornicus-Latens> Tarinaky: well, that's almost an iterator. |
| 16:02 | <@Tarinaky> | I'll stress that the while block was empty. I did all the work in some_method() -and- the flow control, by returning a boolean >.> |
| 16:03 | <@Tarinaky> | I felt dirty anyway. |
| 16:03 | <~Vornicus-Latens> Okay that's just evil. |
| 16:04 | <@Tarinaky> | I probably should have come up with a getter of some sort and a do while. |
| 16:08 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not sure I could have done so without making it more sphegetti though. |
| 16:09 | <@jerith> | Tarinaky: while(true) { if (!some_method()) { break; } } |
| 16:10 | <@jerith> | Semantically identical, but a little clearer as to intent. |
| 16:35 | < sshine> | Tarinaky, you could also just do while (some_method()); |
| 16:35 | < sshine> | I don't know why that should be bad. |
| 16:54 | <~Vornicus-Latens> keep_going = true; while (keep_going) keep_going = some_method(); |
| 16:54 | <~Vornicus-Latens> I use that pattern relatively often. |
| 16:56 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, I generally just write that as: repeat until not some_method() (or the while equivalent) |
| 17:04 | < sshine> | Vornicus-Latens, do you think using a variable adds clarity? |
| 17:05 | <@Tarinaky> | sshine: I never ever ever ever ever (except when I do) do whiles and ifs without blocks. |
| 17:06 | <@Tarinaky> | :p |
| 17:06 | <@Tarinaky> | Except when I do of course >.> |
| 17:07 | < sshine> | heh |
| 17:07 | < sshine> | well, I suppose you often want to wrap it within some interface command, like emptyWhateverContainer(), or emitAllMessages(). |
| 17:14 | | * gnolam arghs at humanities papers. |
| 17:16 | < gnolam> | The results and conclusion go into the abstract, dammit. >:E |
| 17:19 | < AD[Shell]> | >humanities |
| 17:19 | < AD[Shell]> | >results |
| 17:19 | < AD[Shell]> | laughingelfman.jpg |
| 17:23 | | * ErikMesoy joins AD in going hurr hurr. :P |
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| 21:42 | < Derakon> | Perhaps someone here knows more than I do about networking. That wouldn't be especially hard. |
| 21:42 | < Derakon> | I'm trying to set up a simple client/server system -- the server talks to a camera, the client requests and receives images from that camera. |
| 21:42 | < Derakon> | I'm using Pyro4, a Python library for remote objects. |
| 21:43 | < Derakon> | By default, the server daemon created by this library listens on localhost, and cannot hear remote requests. |
| 21:43 | <@jerith> | What protocol? |
| 21:43 | < Derakon> | If I pass the server's own IP address to the daemon constructor then it can hear requests from the outside world. |
| 21:43 | < Derakon> | Any idea why? |
| 21:43 | < Derakon> | Jerith: not sure. |
| 21:43 | <@jerith> | It's probably binding to localhost by default. |
| 21:44 | < Derakon> | Yes. |
| 21:44 | <@jerith> | If you tell it to bind to 0.0.0.0 it should listen on all interfaces. |
| 21:44 | < Derakon> | ...that seems really weird, but okay. |
| 21:44 | < Derakon> | "localhost" is explicitly "only connections internal to this machine", correct? |
| 21:44 | <@jerith> | It's fairly standard, actually. |
| 21:44 | < Derakon> | Standards can be weird! |
| 21:44 | <@jerith> | localhost is the loopback device. |
| 21:45 | <@jerith> | Lots of stuff listens on 0.0.0.0 by default instead, but localhost-only is safer. |
| 21:46 | <@jerith> | You can probably put it behind some kind of proxy server. |
| 21:46 | < Derakon> | Default-exclude instead of default-accept, yeah. |
| 21:46 | < Derakon> | The computer ultimately is going to have no external network access, so security isn't a huge concern. |
| 21:46 | < Derakon> | What would the proxy server do? |
| 21:47 | < Derakon> | (Again, my knowledge of networking is sadly deficient) |
| 21:47 | <@jerith> | That's a very common config for HTTP servers. Have nginx or something in front doing load balancing and/or auth and/or other stuff and then have one or more instances of your app server behind it. |
| 21:48 | < Derakon> | In this specific case all it would do would be let the daemon itself only listen on localhost though? |
| 21:50 | <@jerith> | If you don't have a proxy or something in front or an ssh tunnel or similar to let you in from the outside world, then yes. |
| 21:50 | <@jerith> | If you're happy with it being available on the public network interface, pass in 0.0.0.0. |
| 21:50 | < Derakon> | Or the server's own IP address. |
| 21:51 | | * jerith nods. |
| 21:51 | < Derakon> | Though that would require some "get my address" logic. |
| 21:51 | <@jerith> | But 0.0.0.0 is easier than... |
| 21:51 | <@jerith> | Yeah, that. |
| 21:51 | < Derakon> | Okay, thanks. |
| 21:51 | < Derakon> | I should probably write a networked game at some point or something. |
| 21:51 | < Derakon> | I doubt I'll really be able to get all this knowledge internalized otherwise. |
| 21:51 | <@jerith> | (And it isn't easy to get your own IP. Especially on a system with more than one public IP.) |
| 21:52 | < Derakon> | (Well, I can hardcode it~) |
| 21:52 | <@jerith> | I'm by no means an expert, but I've done a bunch of networking stuff in my time. |
| 21:52 | <@jerith> | If you hardcode it, you'll suffer pain when your DHCP lease renews or summat. |
| 21:52 | < Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 21:52 | < Derakon> | That wasn't a serious suggestion. |
| 21:53 | <@jerith> | I know, but I've seen it done more than I like. (Which is to say I've seen it done.) |
| 21:54 | <@jerith> | But now I have teeth which require brushing and a bed that's pining for me. |
| 21:54 | < Derakon> | Sleep well. |
| 21:55 | <@jerith> | So I shall say goodnight and close my laptopt. |
| 21:55 | <@jerith> | Goodnight. And thanks. :-) |
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| 22:03 | | * McMartin eyes the fuck out of this dialect of Haskell for systems programming |
| 22:03 | <@McMartin> | http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~mpj/Habit-Northeastern-10Nov2011.pdf |
| 22:20 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 22:37 | <@McMartin> | Hm. I have an exceptionally random question. |
| 22:37 | <@McMartin> | Is there a way to get the motherboard ID number out of /proc or similar on Linux? |
| 22:38 | | * Derakon eyes that Haskell thing. |
| 22:39 | < Derakon> | I get the impression that most popular languages end up being excuses for people to reinvent various wheels. |
| 22:39 | <@McMartin> | To be fair, they're dicking around with formal verification here |
| 22:39 | < Derakon> | Mm, true. |
| 22:40 | | * McMartin also eyes the fuck out of Nyfflas. |
| 22:40 | <@McMartin> | It's great that you posted your soundtrack for your game. |
| 22:40 | <@McMartin> | Did it have to be in AIFF format? |
| 22:41 | < Derakon> | But it's lossless~! |
| 22:41 | <@TheWatcher> | McM: not from proc, but it should be in /sys/class/dmi/id/ I think |
| 22:43 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, there's a bunch of board_* files in there with the info |
| 22:43 | <@TheWatcher> | (you need to be root to go near there, though) |
| 22:43 | <@McMartin> | Being root is fine |
| 22:44 | | * McMartin is stress-testing VMs and wants to see Just How Good their hardware forwarding is >_> |
| 22:44 | | * TheWatcher isn't getting those files at all in virtualbox, but is on a real system, but may just be misconfiguration or something on his part |
| 22:48 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, in VMware, the file is there but it has "none" in it |
| 22:52 | <@McMartin> | Also, huh, VBox doesn't have a /sys/class/dmi/id/board_name? |
| 22:54 | <@TheWatcher> | correct |
| 22:55 | <@McMartin> | Wow |
| 22:55 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, that's odd |
| 22:55 | <@McMartin> | In VMware Player it's "440BX Desktop Reference Platform" |
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| 23:33 | < Derakon> | Random device we have here at the lab: an optical isolation board. |
| 23:33 | < Derakon> | Digital lines enter on one end, get converted to optical lines, and then get converted back to digital lines that go out the other end. |
| 23:34 | < Derakon> | The goal being to interrupt the electrical signal and prevent surges from damaging equipment. |
| 23:34 | <@McMartin> | That's kinda slick |
| 23:36 | < Derakon> | I thought it was interesting. |
| 23:44 | < gnolam> | ... are you using extremely high voltags/currents or something, or why doesn't the equipment itself come with optoisolators? |
| 23:44 | < gnolam> | *voltages |
| 23:45 | < gnolam> | (And proper IC-sized ones, at that= |
| 23:48 | < Derakon> | Gnolam: as for the individual devices, I don't know, but the inputs to this box are soldered directly to a fairly expensive PCI-E card plugged into a computer. |
| 23:48 | < Derakon> | The optoisolator is mostly just there due to paranoia after a prior employee fried a computer, I think. |
| 23:54 | < AD[Shell]> | (Melvin deleted calibration!) |
| --- Log closed Tue Nov 15 00:00:22 2011 |