| --- Log opened Mon Oct 17 00:00:44 2011 |
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| 02:10 | < ToxicFrog> | Holy shit. |
| 02:10 | < ToxicFrog> | sqlite: 77KLOC of library code, 9MLOC of test code. |
| 02:11 | < Derakon> | Automated unit test generation, baby! |
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| 16:47 | | * Derakon whacks his head a few times. "No designing roguelikes! You're at work!" |
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| 17:33 | < gnolam> | Derakon: maybe the time is right for Ancient Domains of Microscopy? ;) |
| 17:34 | < Derakon> | Har. |
| 17:34 | < Derakon> | Going down stairs increasing the magnification level? |
| 17:35 | < gnolam> | Hadn't thought that far, but that would be kind of awesome. |
| 17:36 | < Derakon> | Presumably the final boss would be a retrovirus. |
| 17:42 | < Derakon> | I have to say that writing a roguelike aimed towards microbiologists seems a bit...niche though. :) |
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| 17:56 | < kwsn> | when you have a define called "WDT_RESET", you have a reasonable expectation that it resets the WDT counter right? |
| 17:57 | < gnolam> | Yes. |
| 17:58 | < kwsn> | apparently, someone thought it was a good idea to have that call set the WDT to as quick of a timeout as it can go and lock up the code ._. |
| 17:58 | < gnolam> | Err |
| 17:59 | < kwsn> | let me rephrase: it sets the timer to the highest value it'll go to without tripping the watchdog |
| 17:59 | < kwsn> | so taht the next time the watchdog goes up, it resets the chip |
| 18:04 | < gnolam> | In other words, it does a watchdog reset, not a watchdog /timer/ reset. |
| 18:07 | < kwsn> | yes |
| 18:07 | < kwsn> | though i may be getting my lines crossed mentally |
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| 18:11 | < gnolam> | Ergo: bad name |
| 18:13 | < kwsn> | yes |
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| 19:06 | < Derakon> | Okay, that's odd. |
| 19:06 | < Derakon> | This command doesn't work in script form -- the grep just hangs: |
| 19:06 | < Derakon> | find . -name "*py" | xargs grep -l $1 |
| 19:06 | < Derakon> | Running it directly (subbing in the search string for $1 of course) functions, so what did I screw up? |
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| 20:29 | | * Derakon blarghs at WX. |
| 20:30 | < Derakon> | I wouldn't have thought it'd be so bloody complicated to make a fixed-size region that gains scrollbars if its contents get too big. |
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| 20:36 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 20:37 | < jerith> | Derakon: Dude. Gooeys. They're /hard/. |
| 20:38 | < celticminstrel> | Yeah, if you hit them with a sword they just bounce back! |
| 20:38 | <~Vornicus> user interfaces are spectacularly hard |
| 20:39 | < Derakon> | Yeah, but they generally don't need to be opaquely hard. |
| 20:39 | < Derakon> | Like, HTML, I can manually inspect to trace the ancestry of an object, see which styles it has picked up, and reliably determine what went wrong. |
| 20:39 | < Derakon> | With this stuff, it's wrong and I have no idea why. |
| 20:40 | < McMartin> | Are you on Windows? Can you hit it with Spy++? |
| 20:40 | < Derakon> | OSX. |
| 20:40 | < Derakon> | WX has an inspector widget for examining UIs but it appears to just tell me "yes, this widget that isn't doing what you want has the features that you set on it." |
| 20:41 | < celticminstrel> | ...wait, inspector widget? What? |
| 20:41 | < Derakon> | import wx.lib.inspection |
| 20:41 | < Derakon> | wx.lib.inspection.InspectionTool().Show() |
| 20:41 | < Derakon> | Do that before calling MainLoop() on your wx.App instance. |
| 20:41 | < celticminstrel> | ... |
| 20:41 | < celticminstrel> | That's Java. |
| 20:41 | < Derakon> | Python. |
| 20:41 | < celticminstrel> | Oh. |
| 20:41 | < celticminstrel> | Or that. |
| 20:42 | < celticminstrel> | Is it in C++ too? |
| 20:42 | < Derakon> | No idea; I only found out about it when the resident Helpful Knowitall on the wx-users list modified one of my "why isn't my toy implementation working" scripts to include it. |
| 20:42 | < McMartin> | Derakon: This is where Spy++ is nice because it lives *outside* the app and it can see if it's actually rendering stuff right =P |
| 20:43 | < McMartin> | I don't trust wx when it tells me "I rendered the shit out of that widget" |
| 20:43 | < Derakon> | Heh. |
| 20:43 | < gnolam> | Go widget, go! |
| 20:44 | < gnolam> | ... I can't have been the only one to get the Inspector Gadget theme song stuck in my head after reading "inspector widget" |
| 20:46 | | * Vash thought of Inspector Gadget. Has not seen the movie however, saving her from getting a song stuck in her head! AHA! |
| 20:46 | < McMartin> | That said, for the problem you face, in any GUI system I've used successfully, the solution is "mount the large widget inside a scroll pane" |
| 20:46 | < Vash> | erm |
| 20:46 | <~Vornicus> There was no inspector gadget movie |
| 20:46 | < Derakon> | McM: that's what I'm doing! |
| 20:47 | < Derakon> | The scrolled panel is instead expanding to show its contents without scrollbars. |
| 20:47 | <~Vornicus> should've been in title case |
| 20:50 | < Vash> | Vorn: the hell? What the shit is this, then? >_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_Gadget_%28film%29 |
| 20:50 | < Derakon> | Same deal as the nonexistent Highlander II, Vash. I think that's what Vorn was saying, anyway. |
| 20:50 | <~Vornicus> There Was No Inspector Gadget Movie |
| 20:50 | < Vash> | oh |
| 20:50 | < Vash> | ... pfft |
| 20:51 | | * Vash rolls her eyes |
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| 21:06 | < kwsn> | so apparently one of our O2 level alarms tripped |
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| 21:13 | | * Alek gives you Inspector Gadget 2. |
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| 22:07 | | * McMartin eyes the Fedora 16 changenotes. |
| 22:07 | < McMartin> | "New to Fedora 16 is ckermit, an updated implementation of the venerable Kermit file transfer program." |
| 22:07 | < McMartin> | Yes, that's going to be flying off the shelves, that |
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| 22:12 | < McMartin> | Also |
| 22:12 | < McMartin> | If you're going to try to do a bugtracking system that's distributed a la git or Hg... |
| 22:12 | < McMartin> | "BUGS EVERYWHERE" is probably not the best name for this application |
| 22:13 | < McMartin> | "Fedora 16 includes the latest open-source Ada development tools. |
| 22:14 | < Namegduf> | McMartin: I think that name is awesome, myself |
| 22:14 | < Namegduf> | I'm unsure exactly why I'd want a distributed bug tracker, seeing as the point of one is for coordination, but that's beside the point |
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| 22:15 | < McMartin> | Centralization is like SVN, which, as we all know, is intrinsically horrible! |
| 22:15 | < McMartin> | Must not centralize anything omg |
| 22:15 | < McMartin> | Also, man |
| 22:15 | < McMartin> | That's a lot of strikethroughs for F16's release date. |
| 22:17 | < McMartin> | As for the name, it seems like naming a movie about all the galaxy's suns being extinguished "Zero Stars". |
| 22:19 | | * Derakon eyes his code. |
| 22:19 | < Derakon> | self.timepointToStatsMap[timepoint].getIsBad() |
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| 22:19 | < Derakon> | Maybe I'm being too verbose? |
| 22:19 | < Namegduf> | Hmm. |
| 22:19 | < Namegduf> | Is it all like that? |
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| 22:20 | < Namegduf> | Or is that just one line? |
| 22:20 | < Derakon> | Not always, but dict names tend to be lengthy since they say what is mapped to what. |
| 22:20 | < Namegduf> | You could drop "To", but that's only two characters and it reads a bit less well. |
| 22:20 | < McMartin> | I'd drop the "map" before the "to" |
| 22:20 | < Namegduf> | You could consider dropping the-yeah. |
| 22:20 | < Namegduf> | I was going to say I'd drop the "map" in a typed language |
| 22:21 | < Namegduf> | But changed my mind and decided that the "To" could alternatively represent that it was a map |
| 22:21 | < Namegduf> | Even without additional type information |
| 22:23 | < Namegduf> | What else... |
| 22:23 | < Namegduf> | "self" is idiomatic in Python, so pass. "timepoint" could be shortened if it is a local, and "getIsBad" could be just "isBad()" if it returns a true/false value |
| 22:23 | < Namegduf> | I am trying to find ideas rather than focusing on good ones, though. |
| 22:23 | < Namegduf> | It might be just that map code needs to be a bit verbose. |
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| 22:24 | < Derakon> | I will note that in general I tend towards verbosity. |
| 22:24 | < Derakon> | Just for some reason that line twigged at me. |
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| 22:24 | < McMartin> | Since Python is dynamically typed it's more important put type information *somewhere*. |
| 22:24 | < McMartin> | *to put |
| 22:25 | < Namegduf> | xToY sounds like a nice idiom for map naming |
| 22:26 | < Derakon> | Just for some reason that line twigged at me. |
| 22:26 | < Derakon> | Whups. |
| 22:26 | < Derakon> | That wasn't my commandline. |
| 22:26 | < Derakon> | Stupid up-enter reflex. |
| 22:27 | < McMartin> | Hee |
| 22:27 | | * Tarinaky headdesks. |
| 22:27 | < Tarinaky> | Second years say that it's easy to test graphical output |
| 22:27 | < Tarinaky> | Refuse to provide detail on how to do it. |
| 22:28 | < Tarinaky> | *scumbag compsci undergrads* |
| 22:28 | < Derakon> | Define "test graphical output". |
| 22:29 | < Derakon> | At its simplest you could require pixel-for-pixel accuracy by saving the output to a file and comparing its hash to that of a reference image. |
| 22:29 | < celticminstrel> | I like up-enter, but I wish it were a bit more consistently available. |
| 22:30 | < celticminstrel> | My chat client sort of has it, which is nice. |
| 22:30 | < celticminstrel> | (It's option-up, not up.) |
| 22:30 | < Derakon> | Meanwhile, if you want to repeat 2 tasks alternately in Windows' commandline (e.g. build, then run), then your idiom is up-down-enter. |
| 22:31 | < Derakon> | Since "up" in the Windows CLI is "return to the position in the history that you had last navigated to after performing a unique action". |
| 22:31 | < Derakon> | Or something like that. |
| 22:31 | < Tarinaky> | Derakon: 1) That output is produced and 2) That the output is correct. |
| 22:31 | < Derakon> | Tarinaky: yes, what does "correct" mean. |
| 22:31 | < Tarinaky> | Derakon: No idea! |
| 22:32 | < Tarinaky> | Hence the problem. |
| 22:32 | < Derakon> | Ask for clarification? |
| 22:32 | < Tarinaky> | Umm... This isn't for a particular project. |
| 22:33 | < Derakon> | Well, then a vague question gets a vague answer. *shrug* |
| 22:34 | < Namegduf> | If you can't define correct, you can't test for it |
| 22:34 | < Namegduf> | It's a machine, not an artist |
| 22:35 | < Tarinaky> | I don't understand how you'd go about defining correctness for something so volatile though. |
| 22:35 | < Namegduf> | My understanding is that pixel perfect tests are used in some tests. |
| 22:36 | < Namegduf> | Establishing an expected baseline by eye |
| 22:36 | < Namegduf> | And regenerating the baseline when a change is expected and desired |
| 22:37 | < Namegduf> | But my knowledge beyond that is fairly limited |
| 22:37 | < Derakon> | If you want to do qualitative comparisons then you get into limited subsets of the machine vision problem, which get complicated. |
| 22:38 | < Tarinaky> | I'm not even sure how you'd go about testing that the drawing was successful. |
| 22:38 | < Tarinaky> | Since not throwing an error isn't necisarily the same thing as not failing. |
| 22:38 | < Namegduf> | Take a screenshot! |
| 22:39 | < Derakon> | Pretty much, yeah. |
| 22:39 | < Derakon> | There should be a mechanism to save the contents of the view/canvas/whatever to an array and from there to a file. |
| 23:32 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:36 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 23:47 | < McMartin> | Man, my media player doesn't like it when I do make -j6. |
| 23:49 | | Reivles [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 23:51 | <~Vornicus> I would imagine not |
| 23:51 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| --- Log closed Tue Oct 18 00:01:00 2011 |