| --- Log opened Sat Sep 24 00:00:41 2011 |
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| 05:21 | | * McMartin eyes Game Maker For HTML5. |
| 05:22 | <@McMartin> | OK, you guys released too soon. |
| 05:22 | | * McMartin may need to deploy Sarcasm. |
| 05:22 | < kwsn> | TOO SOON |
| 05:22 | <@McMartin> | No, seriously |
| 05:22 | <@McMartin> | I'm running into bugs like "When you call custom functions, the arguments don't match up", and, pending a unit test of my own, "Attempting to look up values in an array always returns zero" |
| 05:23 | <@McMartin> | My next game maker project will thus be "Data Etude", an extremely boring program that calls all computation functions exactly once, and checks their fucking answers. =P |
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| 05:30 | <@McMartin> | Ah well. |
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| 05:58 | <@Lingerance> | Yay single-purpose platform+libraries that aren't portable. |
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| 06:09 | <@McMartin> | Lingerance: Well, in theory, these are portable |
| 06:10 | <@McMartin> | It's trickier than that, though |
| 06:10 | | * McMartin digs deeper. |
| 06:10 | <@Lingerance> | Bah, if the underlying platform isn't portable it's just an illusion of portability IMO. |
| 06:11 | <@Lingerance> | s/platform/language/ |
| 06:11 | <@Lingerance> | Like how you can run VisualBasic on Linux, but why bother? |
| 06:13 | <@McMartin> | Er |
| 06:13 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-f03c5637.sd.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 06:13 | <@McMartin> | The target language here is now JavaScript. |
| 06:14 | <@McMartin> | Which should be Pretty Damn Portable. |
| 06:14 | <@McMartin> | However, it's a from-scratch re-implementation, and it very, very clearly isn't there yet. |
| 06:15 | | * Lingerance was under the impression it'd be using GameMaker the language |
| 06:15 | <@Lingerance> | Sorry about that. |
| 06:15 | <@McMartin> | Which is a JavaScript dialect, yes. |
| 06:15 | <@Lingerance> | Oh? |
| 06:15 | <@McMartin> | And the HTML5 version is supposed to be compiling down to Actual JS, but they've gotten the translator off. |
| 06:15 | <@Lingerance> | I might actually look at GM then. |
| 06:16 | <@McMartin> | The Windows-targeting version is the (a) free and (b) functional version, so stick with the free trial. |
| 06:16 | <@Lingerance> | All the samples of it I've seen were very non-JS though. |
| 06:16 | <@McMartin> | The errors here are basically the GML -> target compilation stuff |
| 06:16 | <@McMartin> | GM8 has two programming modes; one kinda like MindStorms and one kinda like JS |
| 06:16 | <@McMartin> | It is not full JS - in particular, the object mechanism has been hijacked for gameworld objects - but those objects are more JS than C++ objects. |
| 06:17 | <@McMartin> | In particular, prototype-based inheritance and event dispatch. |
| 06:17 | <@McMartin> | The issues I'm running into here are primarily of the form "their compiler is buggy, and is emitting incorrect or actually illegal code" |
| 06:17 | <@McMartin> | Which is really the kind of thing you should be catching in alpha, hence my Deployment Of Sarcasm. |
| 06:18 | < Reiver> | That's a hell of a bug, mind |
| 06:20 | <@Lingerance> | Ah, it has a messed up parser that can handle non-JS code |
| 06:21 | <@Lingerance> | if can_shoot = true then begin |
| 06:21 | <@Lingerance> | can_shoot := false |
| 06:21 | <@Lingerance> | alarm[0] := 5 // This is valud GM |
| 06:21 | <@Lingerance> | Not valid JS |
| 06:22 | <@McMartin> | Er |
| 06:22 | <@McMartin> | What version of GM are you looking at |
| 06:22 | <@Lingerance> | Reading wikipedia, so probably wrong I'm guessing. |
| 06:22 | <@McMartin> | That would be "if (can_shoot) { can_shoot = 0; alarm[0] = 5; }" |
| 06:23 | <@Lingerance> | Yeah |
| 06:24 | <@McMartin> | That said, what's quoted there looks a hell of a lot like Pascal. |
| 06:24 | <@Lingerance> | Indeed |
| 06:24 | <@McMartin> | Anyway, I've tracked one of the issues here to a bug in their JS runtime's treatment of global variables. |
| 06:48 | | * Rhamphoryncus plans to use := and = in his language, hehehe |
| 06:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | With := being a name binding and = being a mutation |
| 06:50 | <@McMartin> | That is also traditional. |
| 06:51 | <@McMartin> | One also sees := for assignment and = for comparison. |
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| 06:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'll use == for comparison |
| 06:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Given the choice I'd rather not have = at all (too often is it screwed up), but I need the different semantics |
| 07:00 | <@McMartin> | Aha |
| 07:00 | <@McMartin> | OK, this one was a bug in the test case that happens to work in the Windows target. -_- |
| 07:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Actually, I didn't use := for name binding and = for mutation because of tradition. I know both operators are used but it's hard to find discussion of them |
| 07:00 | <@McMartin> | <- omg |
| 07:02 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ? |
| 07:03 | | * McMartin was not seriously suggesting it, but was pretending to suggest <- for binding. |
| 07:03 | <@McMartin> | OK. |
| 07:03 | <@McMartin> | Data structures work. |
| 07:03 | <@McMartin> | Rendering is sometimes wonky in a reproducible way. |
| 07:04 | <@McMartin> | The global namespace tests are inconsistent between the two platforms and shouldn't be. |
| 07:04 | <@McMartin> | And certain resource identification things are broken. |
| 07:04 | <@McMartin> | These are the things I have found. |
| 07:04 | <@McMartin> | I have also, if I assume my old consultancy rate of $50/hr, spent enough time on isolating this stuff for them for them to have made back the discount they gave me for the software. =P |
| 07:04 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ahhh heh. Totally misunderstood you :) |
| 07:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 07:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | McMartin: got any references on :=/= for assignment/comparison? I'm not finding *anything* |
| 07:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Various things use it, but not for any particular reason |
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| 07:14 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, it's all "how do we render old-school math notation in ASCII" |
| 07:14 | <@McMartin> | I dont think there's anything formal abou tit |
| 07:14 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 07:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I never got past using = :/ |
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| 07:22 | <@McMartin> | Oop, that's a bug |
| 07:22 | <@McMartin> | However, my old code, with the bug in it, was relying on this bug to work right -_- |
| 07:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | My actual reason for choosing those operators is that += is mutation and implies it's a variant of =, whereas := has no such variants |
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| 07:35 | <@Lingerance> | I don't understand what benefit making a distiction brings you |
| 07:36 | <@McMartin> | If you enforce a distinction between bind and mutate, non-mutation-based functions can be much more aggressively optimized. |
| 07:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And vice versa actually. |
| 07:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | If an object is purely a local, not visible anywhere else so there's no side effects to leak out, then the two are equivalent. I can take that and allow mutation of what'd otherwise be an immutable type |
| 07:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So immutable strings can do in-place appending |
| 07:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And a bigint can use various fancy algorithms |
| 07:39 | < Reiver> | McMartin: Give them your answers and point that out~ |
| 07:43 | <@McMartin> | Reiver: Done and done. |
| 07:50 | <@McMartin> | Oh hey, I bet I even know what's causing one of them~ |
| 07:50 | <@McMartin> | I bet it's a texture compilation bug |
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| 08:29 | < Janus> | Woo! My memory must be cloudly. I remember opengl being impenetrably hard. |
| 08:29 | < Janus> | But I guess that wasn't the case at all, aha |
| 08:30 | | * Janus finished the block renderer and back culling stuff. And the texturing. Even made a .gif to show it off |
| 08:31 | < Janus> | If anyone wanted to see! http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3108480/Recent/Testcube.gif |
| 08:31 | <@McMartin> | CUBE_ |
| 08:32 | <@McMartin> | I would call OpenGL more "alien" than truly difficult |
| 08:32 | <@McMartin> | I once likened it to "programming a robot to program a computer by making it toggle switches on the computer's mainframe control board" |
| 08:33 | < Janus> | That pretty much sums up how it was like pretty neatly |
| 08:35 | < Janus> | All the little holes in it are created by fliping a bit in a 64 bit word. ... it's, um. Kind of haphazard because I'm not sure which bits do which yet, so I just flipped a bunch at random |
| 08:37 | < Janus> | Trying to think in 3 dimensions is really disorienting |
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| --- Log closed Sat Sep 24 12:40:43 2011 |
| --- Log opened Sat Sep 24 12:40:56 2011 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Sep 25 00:00:00 2011 |