| --- Log opened Sun Sep 18 00:00:42 2011 |
| 00:01 | <@McMartin> | TheWatcher: My intuition is that this is A Lot Of Code, but if you're also using a lot of autogenerated or boilerplate stuff, it might not be. |
| 00:01 | <@McMartin> | Is it? |
| 00:01 | <@McMartin> | Simon_Shine: Augh, state monads >_< |
| 00:01 | | * McMartin always just kind of abuses the IO Monad for that. |
| 00:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: https://github.com/ToxicFrog/EmuFun/downloads |
| 00:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | You may find this useful. |
| 00:07 | <@McMartin> | woot |
| 00:07 | <@McMartin> | Sadly, I am at the office now. |
| 00:08 | <@McMartin> | I can test out the platform-independent package on OS X if you need that. |
| 00:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | OSX testing would be nice but is not a priority. |
| 00:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | The windows package we've been using on symbol's machine since yesterday, but additional testing for that would be nice. |
| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | I'll see what I can whip up. |
| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | http://www.geek.com/articles/geek-cetera/windows-8-blue-screen-of-death-replaces -crash-details-with-a-sad-face-20110914/ |
| 00:10 | <@McMartin> | As one of the people that has been able to make actual use of those messages, this makes me a little sad. I hope you can turn it off. |
| 00:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Didn't we figure out that using emoticons as error messages was a bad idea back in, like, MacOS 4? |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | This is more or less the AmigaOS approach. |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | GURU MEDIDATION (code) |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | The thing is, it used to give you the module and program counter of the fail point. |
| 00:12 | <@McMartin> | I've used that to *exactly pinpoint* errors in drivers before. |
| 00:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | (back to emufun for a moment, the windows package has no additional dependencies; it comes with all of the libraries it needs and love2d is built in to the executable) |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | (OK) |
| 00:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. |
| 00:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hell, even if you're not a driver dev it's helpful just to know the module name and panic code. |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | It's giving the panic code there. |
| 00:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | If nothing else that usually lets you narrow it down to a specific driver or piece of hardware. |
| 00:13 | <@McMartin> | Windows panic codes often suck, though. |
| 00:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | But not the module name, without which the panic code is basically useless. |
| 00:14 | <@McMartin> | ERROR_IRQ_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL being the most common one, which means "the driver had an exception at a point where I cannot catch exceptions" |
| 00:14 | <@McMartin> | And that's at point of exception, not point of error, and there's no trace, so it's usually, like, the bus. |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | Also: https://github.com/michaelcmartin/ |
| 00:15 | <@Tamber> | "Something broke, somwhere." |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | The errors they're describing in the article are low-level enough that they might not get modules. |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | "HAL Installation Failed" is "Um, I can't see any hardware. Any of it. Anywhere." |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | HAL being the Hardware Abstraction Layer. |
| 00:19 | <@McMartin> | Anyway, if this is anything like Win7 and WinXP, you can modify the equivalent of boot.ini to configure how error reporting works. |
| 00:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | I hope so. |
| 00:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | (why does win7 default to "reboot instantly on error", anyways?) |
| 00:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, and speaking of BSODs: tried out Magicka's "Crash to Desktop" spell last night. Was amused. |
| 00:27 | <@McMartin> | (Because nobody understands error messages!) |
| 00:27 | <@McMartin> | (Granted, *my* setting - "write complete core dump to disk" - is not going to be the default for anyone ever.) |
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| 02:30 | < Vornicus-Latens> | I guess in the end the msresearch depixel is doing something like completely faking the voronoi diagram, to the point where it needs all of, um. the only things it cares about when choosing polygon shapes are the diagonals. |
| 02:36 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 02:44 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 02:45 | < Vornicus> | Which makes my life a damn sight easier, despite it pissing me off. |
| 02:50 | < Vornicus> | (this also reduces the number of different polygon shapes from 3,250 to 81.) |
| 03:40 | < Reiver> | ToxicFrog: There are two reasons for Win7's reboot-instantly |
| 03:41 | < Reiver> | #1: BSoDs are superscary, yet 90% of them are fixed by a simple reboot. Why stress out the user when you can quietly fix it for them, replacing panic with inexplicability? |
| 03:41 | < Reiver> | #2: Marketing. "Say goodbye to Blue Screens of Death with your new operating system, Windows 7!" |
| 03:48 | < TranslatorPhox> | From wikipedia: "Game Maker -- A free game engine orriendet to bigginers and people that don't whant to learn how to program. A paid upgrade can unlock some 3D fauters." |
| 03:48 | < TranslatorPhox> | That don't want to learn how to spell, either, it seems |
| 03:49 | < TranslatorPhox> | Also, Reiver, I've heard #2 as the logic behind making green screens of death |
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| 03:50 | < TranslatorPhox> | And, the effect of the problem may be easily solved with a reboot, but the cause of the problem still remains |
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| 03:50 | < Reiver> | Oh, I don't disagree |
| 03:50 | <@McMartin> | TranslatorPhox: That's also largely false, incidentally. |
| 03:50 | < Reiver> | But #1 has a certain degree of logic to it, ableit in a treating-the-user-as-an-idiot way. |
| 03:50 | < TranslatorPhox> | Tell that to my Kernel_Data_Inpage_Error |
| 03:51 | <@McMartin> | Game Maker is recognizably a JavaScript dialect. |
| 03:51 | | * McMartin has done a fair amount of work in it. |
| 03:51 | <@McMartin> | (Other things the paid stuff unlocks: removes nag screens, allows rotozoom and reprogrammable alpha blits, and network support) |
| 03:51 | < TranslatorPhox> | Oh, thought you were talking about BSOD |
| 03:51 | < TranslatorPhox> | Anywhoo, that was just a copy paste of what I happened to come across. |
| 03:52 | < Reiver> | rotozoom? |
| 03:52 | <@McMartin> | (Also the next version will apparently be able to export as HTML5, which will make it a Flash killer.) |
| 03:52 | < TranslatorPhox> | Made me giggle, a little. That's, like, every other word wrong |
| 03:52 | <@McMartin> | (If it actually goes to spec.) |
| 03:53 | < Reiver> | (That spec is a pretty big deal...) |
| 03:53 | <@McMartin> | Hm, I take that back a bit. |
| 03:53 | <@McMartin> | Since they intend on charging about as much as Flash for it, it will not be an obvious Flash killer~ |
| 03:54 | < Reiver> | oops |
| 03:54 | < Reiver> | Silly peoples |
| 03:54 | < Reiver> | Dock the price to 60% of Flash and you'd have a dangerous compeditive advantage >_> |
| 03:58 | <@McMartin> | ... I take that back. |
| 03:58 | <@McMartin> | I thought Flash cost $250. |
| 03:58 | <@McMartin> | It in fact costs $700. |
| 03:58 | <@McMartin> | I stand by my statement before. |
| 03:58 | <@McMartin> | (They're projecting a final MSRP of $200) |
| 03:59 | <@McMartin> | (The thing is, the original GM8 was like $25.) |
| 03:59 | <@McMartin> | (Which would have been *murderously* good.) |
| 04:00 | <@McMartin> | So, uh, that's more than a 60% discount. |
| 04:03 | < Reiver> | That's a good start, yeah |
| 04:03 | < Reiver> | Though not quite cheap enough to be the sort of thing you'll not Pirate Anyway. |
| 04:05 | < TranslatorPhox> | I'd buy it if I were actually creating something. That's the only ethical [and legal] choice. |
| 04:06 | <@McMartin> | And if you're Just Messing With Stuff, the GM8 Windows Free version is seriously enough to Mess Around With. |
| 04:06 | < TranslatorPhox> | If I wanted it as a toy, no way in hell I'd pay that. |
| 04:06 | < TranslatorPhox> | Ah, yeah, I suppose it would be |
| 04:06 | <@McMartin> | (If you aren't, well, this is the engine that drives Iji and Spelunky.) |
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| 04:07 | <@McMartin> | This also reminds me that I need to recruit some actual spriters for Hex Othello. |
| 04:10 | | * Reiver curses Eclipse with the rage of a thousand suns |
| 04:10 | < Reiver> | How am I supposed to install games overnight if you stoutly refuse even the most hackish attempts to schedule you? |
| 04:10 | < Reiver> | Steam, I can at least set downloading, shut down, and then que up to restart at 4AM |
| 04:10 | < Reiver> | When it starts, the downloads continue as instructed... |
| 04:11 | < Reiver> | ... Impulse does not. It pauses the bloody things. |
| 04:11 | < Reiver> | (Er, yes, Impulse) |
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| 04:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Does windows have an equivalent to SIGSTOP? |
| 04:16 | < Reiver> | It has 'explode in your face, rape your trousers and then piss on your cat' |
| 04:16 | < Reiver> | But that's been a feature since '95. |
| 04:16 | < celticminstrel> | Does windows have an equivalent to SIGANYTHING? |
| 04:16 | < Reiver> | A much vaunted improvement in Windows 8 will be that it no longer pisses on your cat. |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: based on the behaviour of task manager, I'm pretty sure it has stuff analogous to SIGTERM and SIGKILL, even if the underlying mechanism is different. |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | And SIGSTOP/SIGCONT are damn useful for this sort of scheduling thing. |
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| 04:42 | <@McMartin> | You can get handles to a process and Do Things to them. |
| 04:42 | <@McMartin> | You can also hook into their event loops and post events to them. |
| 04:42 | <@McMartin> | Remind me what SIGSTOP does. |
| 04:42 | < celticminstrel> | Is that ^Z? |
| 04:43 | | * McMartin fires up his MSDN stuff. |
| 04:43 | < celticminstrel> | The suspend signal? |
| 04:43 | < celticminstrel> | Or is that something else? |
| 04:44 | <@McMartin> | That said, the closest I see to ^Z is renicing into the Idle priority class. |
| 04:46 | <@McMartin> | o_O |
| 04:46 | <@McMartin> | I take that back |
| 04:46 | <@McMartin> | There is SuspendThread. |
| 04:46 | <@McMartin> | I see nothing in these documents about any requirements that that thread be in your process. |
| 04:49 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, there's not really an equivalent. |
| 04:50 | <@McMartin> | If you want processes to be suspendable you need to have written them to accept "shut up" as a command and then give it to them via some messaging system. |
| 04:50 | <@McMartin> | Of which Windwos has an embarassment, though some are p. awesome. |
| 04:50 | <@Simon_Shine> | McMartin, well, I'm at this unique point of trying to understand monads, so using the pure State monad instead of one that works for practical purposes seems actually simpler >:) |
| 04:50 | <@McMartin> | And POSIX is finally catching up - the new expansions to domain sockets let you do the crazy multicast stuff that Windows named papes allow, which is v. yay |
| 04:52 | | * Simon_Shine has just spent an hour reading The Monad.Reader #13 about various typeclasses after having drunken 30+ shots and vomited. what you don't do in sympathy for people who've broken up. |
| 04:54 | < celticminstrel> | What's with the random p. and v.? |
| 04:54 | <@McMartin> | p. = "pretty" and v. = "very" |
| 04:55 | <@Simon_Shine> | McMartin, what is your source of these abbreviations? |
| 04:56 | <@McMartin> | THE INTERNETS. |
| 04:56 | <@McMartin> | Seriously, I don't have a precise source. |
| 04:56 | <@Simon_Shine> | so they're like kittens. |
| 04:57 | <@Simon_Shine> | I'd say I have the "w/" abbreviation from apartment ads. |
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| 15:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: ^Z sends SIGSTOP as a side effect, but does more than that. |
| 15:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | SIGSTOP on its own just suspends the process, and SIGCONT resumes it. |
| 15:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Very handy for scheduling programs that don't support it internally - set up a cron job to CONT/STOP them as needed. |
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| 17:42 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 19:00 | < gnolam> | https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F14/FEDORA-2011-12302 |
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| 19:38 | < Phox> | Man, why all the hostility in the comment section? If it's pushed from upstream, it's not like they can do anything about it. Who knows what it does? |
| 19:42 | < gnolam> | Also: check out the other updates: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/ql2500-firmware |
| 19:43 | < Phox> | Yeah, I read through them |
| 19:48 | <@Tamber> | I find the "Waah, I'm leaving Fedora forevar! Baaaw!" comments most amusing. |
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| 20:08 | < Kazriko> | Funny. |
| 20:13 | | * TheWatcher eyes those updates |
| 20:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Someone's taking the piss. |
| 20:15 | <@TheWatcher> | Pft, even shows black boxes when you look at the source, that's awesome |
| 20:17 | < Vornicus-Latens> | THey used the full-black-box unicode thing as opposed to doing it wrong. :P |
| 20:21 | < ToxicFrog> | ...wow, the number of commentors with No Fucking Clue is impressive. |
| 20:28 | < celticminstrel> | Let me guess, 80%? <_< |
| 21:42 | < gnolam> | Something like that. |
| 21:42 | <@Tamber> | They really need to calm down and have a cup of tea. |
| 21:42 | | mode/#code [+ooooooooooooooo Lingerance Phox Reiver Attilla celticminstrel Derakon Kazriko kwsn\PACKERS Vornicus-Latens ToxicFrog gnolam Syloqs-AFH Stalker Alek Namegduf] by Tamber |
| 21:44 | <@TheWatcher> | Tamber: Quite. |
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| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | "I used Prolog in a comparative languages course. The biggest program we did was a map-coloring one (color a map with only four colors so that no bordering items have the same color, given a mapping of things that border each other). I say biggest because we were given the most time with it. I started out like most people in my class trying to hack the language into letting me code a stinking algorithm to color a stinking map. Then I |
| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | wrote a test function to check if the map was colored and, in a flash of prolog, realized that that was really all I needed to code." |
| 23:19 | <@Finerty> | Prolog is kind of scary like that. |
| 23:28 | <@Alek> | wat |
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| --- Log closed Mon Sep 19 00:00:06 2011 |